[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Catacomb]

Just now, (PS4)GustavTesla said:

Like I said, I had seen Mesa's Peacemaker affect both of them, but I didn't know if Banshee's sound quake was also meant to affect both. 

Well i mean, abilities in general can bypass the rift, so you shouldn't be surprised if sound quake,an ability, can bypass it.

[(PSN)GustavTesla]

4 minutes ago, Catacomb said:

Well i mean, abilities in general can bypass the rift, so you shouldn't be surprised if sound quake,an ability, can bypass it.

Most of them do, but not all of them. I do, actually, have a right to be surprised. 

[devildevil21]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)GustavTesla said:

Most of them do, but not all of them. I do, actually, have a right to be surprised. 

You're not getting it are you?

 

Every abillity crosses both the material and rift plane, which means: Every abillity, no exceptions, affects both enemies in rift and material plane.

 

If you are in the rift, the abilltiy will affect enemies in the rift plane and in the material plane as well. And again, no exceptions ^^

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

[(PSN)GustavTesla]

1 minute ago, devildevil21 said:

You're not getting it are you?

 

Every abillity crosses both the material and rift plane, which means: Every abillity, no exceptions, affects both enemies in rift and material plane.

 

If you are in the rift, the abilltiy will affect enemies in the rift plane and in the material plane as well. And again, no exceptions ^^

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

Valkyr's Hysteria? Ivara's Artemis bow? Look it up in the Wiki. 

[LSG501]

54 minutes ago, Air-mage said:

but its ok if a banshee/ember does the same by pressing 4 a single time and not even moving whole game

ember's 4 doesn't scale with the number of enemies and their health/shields so has a fall off.  

Banshee, I'm assuming you're referencing resonating quake, doesn't scale with enemies either, has a massive power drain due to it's multiplicative effects on energy, range and damange AND like ember it's damage falls off after certain levels.

Edited April 1, 2017 by LSG501

[Ketec]

And the nerf acolytes are already on it.

The fact is - if limbo did not have the 10% wide raneg explosion and stasis -  it would be still just as useless as before.
And would be used for moon spy, sortie rescue or defense to protect the target and thats it.

The multi target banish together with the in/out mechanic just so you could banish is rubbish. Rift surge is rubbish and promotes solo play only (because if they are banished, allies cant attack them).
Cataclysm damage without the 10% might aswell not exist at all - it's microscopic to begin with.

Stasis keeps promotes melee gameplay - the whole projectile mechanic is rather pointless - they never fire all at once and often target moves before they hit. Plus it takes time to place shots and sometimes they seem to point to a random direction instead.

Cataclysm is also destroyed by any nullifier in range or who comes into contact with it.

Being in rift is bugged since you still take damage if there is someone else near you or behind you.

The dash to rift/unrift is often problematic if you are in a tight spot and dash causes you to fall off.

If nerf is in order - perhaps lower the 10% and greatly increase the rift entry/initial damage.
Stasis could allow enemy to move but their projectiles would freeze - and be forced to melee.

Add back single target banish and enable use of it in any state.

Rift surge needs complete overhaul

[Torrempesta]

So, basically I got this. It's a (not optimized) full range minimum power strength Limbo build.

Basically you press 4... and then press it again. You spam it.

It's even lamer than the Synoid+Mirage build, I completed the today sortie Defense lvl 100 Corpus with 85% dmgs and only because I let Nidus play a bit and did not want to waste too much Power.

How it works? I am not sure, but the more are in the rift the more they got damaged when I deactivate it.

 

I tried the Limboom Strength build but I think that the lower the Power Strength the higher the dmg is.

 

Opinions?

[Hemmo67]

when cataclysm collapses it deals 10% dmg to health and shield per enemy that was inside the cataclysm when it collapses

so basicly if u have 10 or more enemies inside they all die

[Kyryo]

No ! Remove this post at once. do you know what will happen as soon as DE will see this? why would you kill a frame 1 week after his resurrection?

 

Edit: Seriously tho, great against everything that does not have armor , as far as I've tested. even if i think i have a slightly different build.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Kyryo

[ChameleonBro]

On 3/31/2017 at 5:50 PM, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

The only one reason why I think they changed it from a single target banish to a aoe banish is to help deal with the infested. Hear me out. Limbo has a hard time banishing a ancient healer or any heavy infested unit that's surround by smaller infested. How do they solve this problem give his banish an aoe. That's my opinion about it.

They probably gave it to him to make him quicker at that method of playstyle but it backfired into  Banish rarely being ever used

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

1 hour ago, Ketec said:

And the nerf acolytes are already on it.

I don't think DE will nerf it. Limbo was the least used warframe because casual players could not understand him. So they try him out for a bit, don't get him then delete him from inventory. When people were suggesting how to rework him, they said make him simpler. At the same time, Limbo players didn't want Limbo to be simple. They wanted him to be just as complicated but be rewarded for that complexity. DE did both.

They gave Limbo a nuke for the more casual players.that don't understand Limbo. Want to kill lots of stuff? Use Limbo. Don't t think about anything else. This way, casual players who know nothing but to kill things won't just throw him away.

For the Limbo players, the new Limbo is just as complex as before with powers saying "invalid target" or "no target in range" if you don't know how it works and its not gonna tell you why even if there's enemies all around you. But when you do understand him, nothing makes you feel omnipotent like an invulnerable ghost that can stop time.

[DinendalMinyatur]

17 hours ago, malekas said:

DE might have went a bit too far with the scaling on Limbo's new Cataclysm. For those that don't know, when Cataclysm collapses it deals damage equal to 10% of the total health and shields of all enemies inside. Add on top of that the ridiculous range on Cataclysm, and you can see how easy it is to setup a massive nuke. The last thing I want to see is for Cataclysm to be nerfed to uselessness (like game developers have a tendency to do).

 

But there's an easy fix to it that leaves Cataclysm almost exactly as is. Just change it so that you don't get the scaling damage if you manually collapse Cataclysm. It only scales if the bubble collapses on it's own. Of course, the first thing people will try is to tank duration (Transient+Fleeting). And since Limbo doesn't need duration to stay in the rift anymore, why not. But even at max range the bubble will shrink a massive amount before collapsing on it's own. Only enemies around the center of Cataclysm would be affected by the scaling damage.

 

Quick, easy, and completely solves the problem without shredding Cataclysm to bits.

I have two different propositions for Cataclysm:

• Cataclysm damage can be converted to a scaling DoT damage. (For every passing second in cataclysm enemies lose %1-0,5 of their current HP -With a damage cap if you think it is too OP)
• A Magnetize like damage: With each passing second rift in cataclysm becomes even more volatile dealing a percent-based HP damage if Cataclysm collapses. Each passing second adds %1 HP , capped at %30-40 HP damage.
• Shirnking and other functions will remain the same.

These changes would prevent max range spamming as you have to wait to deal some effective damage on enemies.

[Buzkyl]

2 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

They gave Limbo a nuke for the more casual players.that don't understand Limbo. Want to kill lots of stuff? Use Limbo. Don't t think about anything else. This way, casual players who know nothing but to kill things won't just throw him away.

A nuke that takes adequate time to set up is intune with Limbo's current kit. The current ultimate is nothing like that, it encourages mindless spam. Limbo is suppose to be a complex frame, spamming 4 is the opposite of that and that aspect deserves a nerf, yes it should nuke but it should require more setup nd better synergy with his other skills.

[Torrempesta]

5 hours ago, Kyryo said:

No ! Remove this post at once. do you know what will happen as soon as DE will see this? why would you kill a frame 1 week after his resurrection?

 

Edit: Seriously tho, great against everything that does not have armor , as far as I've tested. even if i think i have a slightly different build.

No ok, I'm sorry, but this is nonsense!

I got a bit angry when they nerfed the Simulor and Mirage combo, because you needed a good build on Mirage and a Synoid Simulor with some Forma on it...

But this? This is plain button smashing! Pure brainless clicking! It's useful, yes, but boring!

I mean, I am going to abuse this in the most dishonorable way, but come on!

[SolarDwagon]

All her recastable abilities should have their duration refreshed by recasts, rather than creating a new cast.
Biggest frustration with her 3rd has been a) ridiculously high timing sensitivty (given the desynchs and delays inherent in Warframe) and b) getting a buff to 90% completion just for the duration to run out.
Her 1st ability is also hugely dependent on building up over time.

Her durations and ranges are also too small to work effectively at base.

Finally, Amp seems just... odd. It has nothing to do with the rest of her abilities, the multiplier seems to be made up, and it's just... damage.



More complete feedback with some actual abilities:
Mallet: Make this ability a full toggle. Tweak from there.
Resonator: Could maybe do with basic "Follow" or "Roam" commands- "Follow" keep sit close, "Roam" being the current behaviour.
Metronome: Toggle that only casts energy when buffs are given (Think Equinox's Provoke). Make it easier to get buffs, maybe lower or altogether remove the loss of buff growth on mistimes.
Amp: As an ability it's good but it seems completely out of keeping with the rest of her ability set. Perhaps if it had more effect on her other abilities (in exchange for a little less damage power?) Maybe it could apply the effects of all her other abilities inside the Amp field at all times (except distraction?).
Passive: Rework to work better with toggles.

Edited April 2, 2017 by SolarDwagon

[Kaotyke]

DE, I have to say that, while I love what you have done to Limbo, specially when it comes to picking up loot in Cataclysm... You made Cataclysm everything you disliked about Saryn: A press 4 constantly to kill.

While the longish animation is there to counteract it, the same could be said about Miasma.

Add a few conditions to the power of the explosion when it is cast and when it collapses.

The cast explosion could just deal a blast proc and damage, but the damage from when it collapses could qork like Equinox's Maim. Of course it would have to be tonned up because the bubble shrinks...

On that note: why doesnt Cataclysm Continium recover the bubble size?

 

 

[PsiWarp]

Damage based on 10% of all enemies' shields and health inside the rift is a bit overboard. I still like the idea of enemies taking scaling damage though, especially if it is a percentage of their max shields. and/or health. Something like Energy Vampire's percentile damage could work.

Edited April 2, 2017 by PsiWarp

[EinheriarJudith]

9 hours ago, Ketec said:

If nerf is in order - perhaps lower the 10% and greatly increase the rift entry/initial damage.

Stasis could allow enemy to move but their projectiles would freeze - and be forced to melee.

Add back single target banish and enable use of it in any state.

Rift surge needs complete overhaul

this is the best thing ive seen in this thread especially about stasis. for cata there is nothing wrong with 10% damage scale. removing the mechanic to collapse it early and its dumb shrinking radius (because the augment doesn't maintain its radius just its duration) is the better way to go about it.

and to those totting that idiotic "filthy casuals" mentality. limbo has no learning curve. the powers are way easy to understand and use. this is a horde shooter not a tactical one.

Edited April 2, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

5 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

A nuke that takes adequate time to set up is intune with Limbo's current kit. The current ultimate is nothing like that, it encourages mindless spam. Limbo is suppose to be a complex frame, spamming 4 is the opposite of that and that aspect deserves a nerf, yes it should nuke but it should require more setup nd better synergy with his other skills.

Maybe Cataclysm's 10% calculation should only apply to enemies affected by Rift Surge. Enemies that aren't Surged will only get the normal 300 damage from rift transition. This curbs its spammability and will require the Limbo player some set up to spread the Surge effect. I wouldn't mind it.

My opinion still stands that DE won't nerf it though. At least as long as Limbo is still statistically the least played warframe.

Edited April 2, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[malekas]

After a week of the new Limbo, I can't play pug groups with a Limbo in it. I'll leave every time. A new Limbo player will do one of two things:

 

1) Trap a lot of enemies in the rift with Rift Surge and Cataclysm, leaving everyone else standing around waiting because they can't do anything.

 

2) Spam a max range Cataclysm, making my eyes bleed thanks to the constant flashing of their bright energy color.

 

The rework failed miserably to address Limbo's biggest problem. He is the most anti-team frame there is. While there are some frames I'm not a fan of seeing, Limbo is a frame I hate seeing.

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

Console has yet to get the update with the quest a question I have who thinks it's a good idea to make a quest that  only gives you the blueprint, the result is having to farm the Warframe for the qwest that you completed to get the Warframe from the quest -_-

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

11 hours ago, ChameleonBro said:

They probably gave it to him to make him quicker at that method of playstyle but it backfired into  Banish rarely being ever used

Yeah you're right. I thought about it today it would be better if they it kept or made it into a single that can turn into a aoe banish. They should've let banish stayed single target this way he could still have a way to take out high priority target but that's just my opinion.

[MudShadow]

Just give it up and play a better Warframe. Limbo is S#&$-tier and has badly designed mechanics which brings the quality of this game down.Every time I play a map with a Limbo player in it I want to uninstall Warframe.

[TrickshotMcGee]

As someone who loved old Limbo, this new Limbo just upsets me. I honestly dislike it. No longer can I sit on the safety of the Rift and deal with enemies singularly, it HAS to be a group thing or not at all, which is stupid for how squishy he is. 

Overall, I feel he's more balanced. However, DE 100% did not stick true to how Limbo felt before and if anything he's MORE clunky to play now that you can't Banish from the Rift, which I think was a massively stupid change. They should have made the range small like Titania's 1st ability and let it work both in and out of the Rift. 

 

Banish is actively worse now. It used to be a way to drag someone into the Rift with you and allow you to single them out. If you wanted to play a bit riskier, you could stay in the material plane and single them out so they can't hurt your, your team, or the mission objective (if you're on that kind of mission, that is). Banish used to be something I actually used. And to expand on why it's dumb, I'd like to point out that almost every single other ability in Warframe works on enemies outside of the Rift. Seriously, there might be 10 out of all the powers on all the frames that don't, but for some ungodly reason one of Limbo's own powers - one that used to be vital for his survival - no longer does. That makes absolutely no sense.  

Rift Surge is convoluted and frustrating now. Running a max-range Limbo can really screw your team up with this, especially in endless missions. It can make Rift pockets that trap enemies in them. Nice for CC, bad for teamplay. 

Stasis is the only big change I like tbh. It's a pretty solid ability, though it sucks that it freezes your own bullets along with enemies. I use melee a lot anyways so it's not actually a problem, but it can get irritating at times if I don't feel like whacking something in the face right then.

Cataclysm is basically the same. I like that they made it more damage-oriented than before with the scaling damage when it collapses. 

Also, rolling into the Rift was a bad decision. It's a cool concept, but not something that should have been done. Anyone who ever learned to use parkour effectively in Warframe knows that rolling is pretty integral in keeping your speed up. With that being his way in and out of the Rift, it's both slower and more annoying to use than it has ever been. 

 

To use the current version of Limbo, you basically throw everything about old Limbo out of the window and re-learn it so that this one is bearable or makes sense at all. The worst part is that he wouldn't need big changes to be better, just some common sense ones that would make him less frustrating to play. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by TrickshotMcGee

[jmthebigman]

9 hours ago, Torrempesta said:

No ok, I'm sorry, but this is nonsense!

I got a bit angry when they nerfed the Simulor and Mirage combo, because you needed a good build on Mirage and a Synoid Simulor with some Forma on it...

But this? This is plain button smashing! Pure brainless clicking! It's useful, yes, but boring!

I mean, I am going to abuse this in the most dishonorable way, but come on!

This needs more aiming than Miralor.