[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Calvyr]

1 minute ago, PsiWarp said:

Yeah it is annoying you can't just use Banish alone to bring them in anymore, instead you need to combo "1 + 3 + roll + 1, 3 + 1... repeat ad nauseam" or "4 + 3 + 4 + roll" to do that now.

And the biggest problem with that is that Limbo is super squishy, so coming out of the Rift to Banish is pretty much death against enemies that are higher level than those that can be killed instantly by entering the Rift.

[DreamsmithJane]

7 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Why not? The problem isn't the warframe or the game.

[...]

Leaving is a perfectly legit option. It lets you find another group, play with friends or go solo.

 

7 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Look if someone has personal problems with a certain frame/weapon/effect color thats their problem.

The problem was that the nerfed weapons would "turn a co-op experience into a solo one". That's DE's assessment, too. And it's not okay. It's everyone's problem. It's not merely an issue of finding something distasteful. It's a problem of being denied the opportunity to participate in the game at all, because someone decided to use an ill-designed tool that invalidates most of the game's mechanics. Players shouldn't have to leave the game in order to have an opportunity to actually play. Not once, and certainly not multiple times in a row (which is what happened before the nerfs, because S. Simulor and T. Boltace spammers were in a large portion of missions). That is why, in fact, most people on the forums were in favor of nerfing these weapons. Most players, that's hard to say, but of the ones who came to the forums to give feedback, yes, certainly most of those.

On this topic: yes, Limbo's Cataclysm falls into the same category, because it's overtuned. It's almost as bad as Mag's old Shield Polarize against Corpus, but it works against everything. It needs to be toned down. To those bringing up armor, what you're saying is that it kills almost everything in all three factions literally as fast as you can blink, but it's okay because you might also have to shoot a Bombard (if it's alone), Disruptor, or Nullifier out of hundreds of enemies. Really? This is like Equinox's Maim, but without the buildup and without the need to actually kill anything first. It's absurd to claim it's not an issue.

[Swarmframe]

It's very easy to fix "nuking problem" - just lower or remove the damage, when Cataclysm is collapsed manually by pressing "4" again.

This change won't hurt basic Limbo concept and maybe open way to new build(Limbo with maximum strenght and lowest duration - a very vulnerable DD with delay of his ultimate "nuke" ability).

[ashrah]

limbo is now good not op...

[(PSN)CastAwayOrb]

I also want to thank DE for a great Limbo rework :) No nerf needed at all.

[Kasiosh_T_Laios]

Did you even test it on an armored unit?

cry for the armor scaling before you start shooting nerfs....

Warframe is dying because of such nerfs, they bring that new cool warframe, everyone gets it, play it, but some people need to start crying, the devs nerf him people get pissed off and leave.....

fix the already existing problems before you start crying becaus of the new content

Edited April 4, 2017 by adamoaraad

[Ditto132]

53 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

They're probably not going to want to say anything about this until they figure out whether they got it right, or made a big mistake. I assume there is a lot of discussion going on backstage at DE about whether they need to walk back through their design decisions and see if anything (or a lot of things) need to change. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for understanding from developer's perspective.
DE needs more time, it is not trivial to change Limbo and its Rift mechanic. More data and feedbacks are needed.
Not to mention, DE has to deal with other bugs and bigger issues such as UI issue that quite a lot of players are experiencing and frustrated about...

In the meantime, I urge people not to be too quick to judge, asking for changes or nerf, especially basing on few impressions.
Quick fixes from DE would probably result in more bugs and other issues, ending up adding more workload for them.

[jmthebigman]

1 minute ago, adamoaraad said:

Did you even test it on an armored unit?

cry for the armor scaling before you start shooting nerfs....

Warframe is dying because of such nerfs, they bring that new cool warframe, everyone gets it, play it, but some people need to start crying, the devs nerf him people get pissed off and leave.....

fix the already existing problems before you start crying becaus of the new content

Making all content up to lvl 100 trivial and getting with ease 95% dmg done at sortie 3 defence missions says it should be brought down.

Mag would nuke corpus of enemy level with an old build. This nukes 2 infinitely and 1 up to high lvls anyway.
Im just being realistic over here.

[martinus16]

On 3-4-2017 at 5:19 PM, brainjelly2g0 said:

I want to preface this by saying Limbo was my favorite frame before the rework, and he still is. However, he now currently has every facet of the game cornered in the cheesiest way.

Support? Anyone on your squad goes down, Papa Limbo can revive them with ease.

Defense? He can make the pod completely invincible to enemies, and can stop them from accessing it completely. Hostages too, but that's always been his meta.

Survivability? Tap shift. Do that, and you literally gain energy for your efforts, while being invincible.

Offense? Cataclysm takes 10% of the combined health and armor of all enemies inside it, and when it collapses, deals that. Basically, if you have 10 enemies within your 4, and hit it again, they all die. And it scales. Endlessly. This is literally the most powerful ability in-game.

 

Now, how do you fix him? Well, DE, you need to focus on what he should be, because having Limbo be everything is clearly broken as hell.

 

The Supporter

  Reveal hidden contents

This Limbo would be focused on protecting allies, and buffing them with movement speed and damage in the Rift.

Rift Passives-

2 energy per second for everyone, with 10 energy rewarded when enemies are killed inside the Rift.

Limbo Passive- 

4 energy per second, and 20 energy rewarded when enemies are killed inside the Rift. This incentivizes players to be inside Limbo's Cataclysm, and him using it as a large-range buff-zone. He keeps his dodge.

Banish-

Can be cast on enemies or allies, from any plane, and will send them into the other plane. If cast on the same plane, it is an AoE. If cast on different planes, it's single-target. Basically, it lets Limbo act as either a squad-saver or an Assassin, who focuses solely on Heavies.

Stasis-

2-second drain at base, which goes down to .5 with maxed efficiency. Cancels out Energy Regen. Stasis is ridiculously powerful, and having it not drain energy is a very weird design flaw. 

Freezes all enemies, but doesn't effect projectiles. Currently, players are completely useless if they're in a mission with a Max-Range Limbo, who likes Stasis, and his allies don't know it at first. If they forgot a melee, or wanted to level one specific gun, then they're boned. Having it not effect Projectiles encourages players to actually bring a Limbo along.

Rift Surge-

I loved the old Rift Surge, but I also love the new one. Combining them would be perfect, as it would make Limbo a small step-down of Banshee in terms of team damage.

All Allies in the Rift gain XX damage multiplier, and all enemies in the Rift are surged. If those enemies leave the Rift, they banish others around them, causing permanent Rifting. Perhaps you could cut the damage multplier's scaling with power-strength, but beyond that, I think this is a much needed change.

Cataclysm- 

No longer shrinks in size, but also does not deal damage. Enemies who enter will be stunned momentarily, unless Stasis is up. Items and Consoles still enter the Rift. That just makes sense. This is mostly a return to old-Cataclysm, but with some touch-ups to some of its components. 

Goals-

As you can see, the main purpose of this Limbo is to turn him into a Support-Defensive frame, which is a niche not too populated currently(except Icy Avalanche Frost). If this route were used, cheese would lessen, but Limbo would emerge in the meta slowly, and his hardcore fans would appreciate the changes.

 

The Nuker

  Reveal hidden contents

Rift Passive-

The Rift on its own has no passives.

Limbo Passive-

No longer regens energy in the Rift, but still gets 10 energy per enemy killed. Keeps Dodge

Banish-

Tap to Banish one person. Hold to Banish group. Single Target will be knocked down, while AoE will be staggered. Deals no damage.

Stasis-

Completely scrapped. It's simply too powerful for a DPS frame. It's instead replaced by-

Rift Pulse-

This ability is designed to be wonky. Basically, it's a timer. At a base of 15 seconds, during that time, it takes 15% of the EHP of all enemies who have entered or exited the Rift, and deals it to all enemies inside the Rift at the end of its duration. Does not count enemies twice..This ability encourages many enemies to be in the Rift, but also puts Limbo's DPS on a timer, so that he can't just spam his 4 to kill everyone.

Rift Surge-

Multiplies all damage dealt in the Rift by 2.5x. When used with Rift Pulse, you're basically guaranteeing your enemies deaths.

Cataclysm-

It now Shrinks at double the rate, but then grows for the other half of its duration. Deals no damage. This encourages Limbo to use one, rather than many, then go around Banishing groups in time for the Rift Pulse.

 

Goals-

My intention for this is obvious. Completely turn Limbo into damaging frame. However, to maintain his uniqueness, Rift Pulse was added, so it's not simply press 4 to win. 

These are the two ways I can see Limbo going, with both specializing him, reducing his ridiculous power across the board, while buffing whatever niche DE wants him to feel. If you have suggestions, or a different specialization idea, please put it down below.

if you wanted limbo to be nerfed you have no understanding of this game that is stupid his buff is good you guys are making warframe bad

[Kasiosh_T_Laios]

What i mean is that the old content needs to be buffed before nerfing the new, nerfing new content is like telling the devs not to improve and that we like the current content , everyone is saying that the game is boring and that there is no end game, why? because whenever they try to step up tha game , the comunitty steps in and basically tells them to sit down...

warframes like hydroid and oberon continue to get hate and no one cares about buffing them

Edited April 4, 2017 by adamoaraad

[(XBOX)xxxjesusBxxx]

Limbo fourth ability op but we shoiuldn't nerf him rather fix , if De Nerfs him then he going back to the graveyard. Nidus is op as well, or saryn but we dont nerf them, even octavia why because there fun.Limbo only need fixing because Limbo spam makes it unfun, just make Limbo fourth do less damage .Also be careful with your words Fix not nerf

[Potato]

These players are the reason that everything is getting nerfed and ruined. They just complain,complain, and complain. 

 

Look, as a limbo player, shouldn't you be HAPPY that you finally got a buff for your frame? I sure as hell would. Why are you complaining that your frame now gives you optimal support and is actually good for many different missions now? 

 If there is no overpowered weapons or ridiculous frames, players will only get bored of warframe and eventually they'll lose a gigantic chunk of their playerbase simply because all of their favorite weapon was hit with the nerf dart and the game wouldn't be fun anymore.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Naimul

[-CM-NineFingers]

50 minutes ago, jmthebigman said:

Making all content up to lvl 100 trivial and getting with ease 95% dmg done at sortie 3 defence missions says it should be brought down.

Mag would nuke corpus of enemy level with an old build. This nukes 2 infinitely and 1 up to high lvls anyway.
Im just being realistic over here.

Show me where he trivialises orokin and grineer up to level 100. not just butchers and lancers, get something other than cannon fodder to show it. And of course, no using CP, since with CP even an ember can kill almost everything.

[topshrek]

And it is really annoying for everyone that isn't Mesa too tbh.

[(PSN)vamp6x6x6x]

I disagree. Nidus and Nyx can be way more annoying...from what I have seen and/or experienced...

[Sintag]

That title's a mouthful.

 

But seriously, rolling out of the Rift exists, and if Limbo wants to dunk every enemy in there and Stasis them, focus on a different group while he's preoccupied.

[topshrek]

3 minutes ago, Sintag said:

That title's a mouthful.

 

But seriously, rolling out of the Rift exists, and if Limbo wants to dunk every enemy in there and Stasis them, focus on a different group while he's preoccupied.

 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)vamp6x6x6x said:

I disagree. Nidus and Nyx can be way more annoying...from what I have seen and/or experienced...

It was just an off the top of my head thing because I just played with a Limbo, should have thought about it a little and made the thread about negative synergy in general because this isn't the only example of negative synergy in the game. There shouldn't even be negative synergy considering that 99 percent of the matches are with randoms and you have no idea which frames they will have before hand. another example of negative synergy off the top of my head is how World on Fire Ember just burns all enemies leaving Nekros with 2 abilities basically.

[Ryme]

I'm fine with it, since the OP's complaint isn't really correct. He seems to be under incorrect assumption that it cancels out his shots, when it merely delays them. The bullets don't disappear; they are just slowed along with the enemy, and will kill them once the stasis effect wears off.

[topshrek]

3 minutes ago, Ryme said:

I'm fine with it, since the OP's complaint isn't really correct. He seems to be under incorrect assumption that it cancels out his shots, when it merely delays them. The bullets don't disappear; they are just slowed along with the enemy, and will kill them once the stasis effect wears off.

Alright my bad, didn't think it worked with hit-scan weapons. It is still really annoying because you have no way of telling what is dead and what isn't and just waste a ton of ammo.

[Keiiken]

Saw the title and thought this was going to be a thread complaining about Cataclysm being worse than Snowglobe.

[Johan_Force]

If they nerf limbo I will ask for maiming strike, mirage, excal, chroma, nova, and mag to all be nerfed as well. Just saying limbo is finally at a point where he can help the team and people dont like that he can get kills now instead of just being used for sortie def or rescue missions. Its funny how people are complain about this buff after the tonkor and simulor were nerfed.

[brainjelly2g0]

1 hour ago, Naimul said:

These players are the reason that everything is getting nerfed and ruined. They just complain,complain, and complain. 

 

Look, as a limbo player, shouldn't you be HAPPY that you finally got a buff for your frame? I sure as hell would. Why are you complaining that your frame now gives you optimal support and is actually good for many different missions now? 

 If there is no overpowered weapons or ridiculous frames, players will only get bored of warframe and eventually they'll lose a gigantic chunk of their playerbase simply because all of their favorite weapon was hit with the nerf dart and the game wouldn't be fun anymore.

As a Limbo player, I'm closer to the storm. While I like the buff personally, I also understand that it's broken. 2/3 enemies are already dead, and the prevalence of the spammers is ruining gameplay for other players.

Would Dark Souls be as fun if the game gave you infinite damage? Is Halo as tactical when Elites die from a single shot? I'm not saying Warframe needs to be exactly like these games, but if it doesn't have any difficulty, then it's a movie, not a game. When a game removes all semblance of challenge, it stop's being fun, and players leave it. That's why so many veterans get burnt out in this game. That's how Warframe will die eventually. I'd like to [DE]lay that as much as possible, because it's fun underneath the cheese.

[Magneu]

Seems like the potential range of Cataclysm is the big problem. If it was locked into its default range, crazy nukes would be vastly harder to spam with the current kill rate. 

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

The only thing that needs to be balanced is Cataclysm. The rest of limbo's kit is fine. Quick question why does halve of the player base wants limbo nerf now? I mean he just got his rework. I understand that his cataclysm spam is a problem but that's the only thing that needs balancing really. Another thing how many of you have a valid reason for limbo to be nerf? 

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

The only thing that needs to be balanced is Cataclysm. The rest of limbo's kit is fine. Quick question why does halve of the player base wants limbo nerf now? I mean he just got his rework. I understand that his cataclysm spam is a problem but that's the only thing that needs balancing really. Another thing how many of you have a valid reason for limbo to be nerf?