[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[_Glaurung_]

More tripe. At least Limbo has to press multiple buttons, unlike a certain other frame.

[(XBOX)Slimm qp ReapeR]

Coming across posts like these are what's makes me want to leave the game. -__-

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Slimm qp ReapeR said:

Coming across posts like these are what's makes me want to leave the game. -__-

I feel ya bro.......oh believe me.

[Voidwielder]

Hey, wth man. I'm just at the third stage of the quest (after years leaving it unactive). So shut the f**k up. Don't blame the "gun", blame the user (also the case of tonkor and simulor, btw reduce the knock back on every stacks DE).  Also "Freezes all enemies, but doesn't effect projectiles"... Do you not know how time freeze work? Have you ever played Quantum Break? Don't break the ability for your convenience (because it will get nerfed too)

[Arthfaell]

Just wanted to let people know, if I remember correctly, that it scales off HEALTH and SHIELDS. Not Armour. In my experience it does very little damage against any decent level Grineer. Just a bit of a PSA. It is excellent against Corpus and Infested. Though perhaps the percentage could be brought down just a bit, but I'm not sure.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Arthfaell

[ImmortalGrump]

He is just as balanced as MESA quit trying to nerf frames and get DE to buff frames so they can add higher level content, so tired of you kind of people.

[QQSausage]

There's no significant punishment for range build !

In my opinion , make 2nd scale with strength ( number of enemies in stasis ; ex: 100% strength can put 15 enemies into stasis ) The limit of projectiles isn't affected at all.

( More balanced ,i think, option: Cataclysm collapse only affects the enemies in stasis. In exchange , boss can be put into stasis for a short time that decrease with the number of skill usage like other cc skills )

[NecromancerX69]

This post....

Spoiler

 

 

[Arthfaell]

11 minutes ago, QQSausage said:

There's no significant punishment for range build !

In my opinion , make 2nd scale with strength ( number of enemies in stasis ; ex: 100% strength can put 15 enemies into stasis ) The limit of projectiles isn't affected at all.

( More balanced ,i think, option: Cataclysm collapse only affects the enemies in stasis. In exchange , boss can be put into stasis for a short time that decrease with the number of skill usage like other cc skills )

There is a punishment for a range build actually. Especially against Corpus/Corrupted (haven't tested Infested Healers and Disruptors effects on damage yet) as the Nullifiers, well, nullify...

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

How come no one is asking Octavia to be nerfed? Her 1 has infinite damage scaling like Limbo's 4. Her 2 has amazing crowd control like Limbos 2. And before you say Limbo has better survivability because of his rift mechanics, Octavia has almost better stealth than Loki if not better. And last time I checked, stealth is better than rift.

This is why we can't have nice things. Instead of nerfing frames (and weapons), rework them to be better. All these nerfs makes it so we can't get higher level content.

Edited April 5, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[Dragazer]

36 minutes ago, QQSausage said:

There's no significant punishment for range build !

In my opinion , make 2nd scale with strength ( number of enemies in stasis ; ex: 100% strength can put 15 enemies into stasis ) The limit of projectiles isn't affected at all.

( More balanced ,i think, option: Cataclysm collapse only affects the enemies in stasis. In exchange , boss can be put into stasis for a short time that decrease with the number of skill usage like other cc skills )

23 minutes ago, Arthfaell said:

There is a punishment for a range build actually. Especially against Corpus/Corrupted (haven't tested Infested Healers and Disruptors effects on damage yet) as the Nullifiers, well, nullify...

Wrong, a max range build gets screwed over pretty easily against corpus due to nullifier bubbles being able to touch it easier due to it increased size and dispel it, just like frost globe.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Dragazer

[(PSN)psycofang]

40 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Wrong, a max range build gets screwed over pretty easily against corpus due to nullifier bubbles being able to touch it easier due to it increased size and dispel it, just like frost globe.

That and his other 3 skills suck when you go for a full max range spam build

Edited April 5, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[QQSausage]

1 hour ago, Arthfaell said:

There is a punishment for a range build actually. Especially against Corpus/Corrupted (haven't tested Infested Healers and Disruptors effects on damage yet) as the Nullifiers, well, nullify...

Nullifiers are challenge as well as healer that almost every warframe has to face not only for limbo

The punishment i mean is not from enemy but the mods. I can build an aoe and cc limbo without the consideration of strength and the aoe is still powerful 

For the nullifiers , just use weapon to eliminate their field as other warframes have to do except octavia and then spam 4th.Even though the field disable the 4th , it can still deal Cataclysm collapse damage to other that are not in the nullifler field (I've tried that limbo 4th can deal some damage to the field)

For high level armored enemy ,in my opinion,very few warframes like ash could easily deal with them if without weapon or Corrosive Projection

[Dragazer]

6 minutes ago, QQSausage said:

Nullifiers are challenge as well as healer that almost every warframe has to face not only for limbo

The punishment i mean is not from enemy but the mods. I can build an aoe and cc limbo without the consideration of strength and the aoe is still powerful 

For the nullifiers , just use weapon to eliminate their field as other warframes have to do except octavia and then spam 4th.Even though the field disable the 4th , it can still deal Cataclysm collapse damage to other that are not in the nullifler field (I've tried that limbo 4th can deal some damage to the field)

For high level armored enemy ,in my opinion,very few warframes like ash could easily deal with them if without weapon or Corrosive Projection

Nullifiers punish Limbo harder as the the entire ability shuts off just from the nully touching it due to it being wide continuous AoE.

Disarm for example disarms enemies that are not in the bubble.

But cataclysm shuts off completely even the parts that are not touched by the bubble

Destroying the bubble requires Limbo being out of the rift, and when paired with his fragile defensive stats is very risky.

Loki, ash, or ivara can safely destroy bubbles while invis

Edited April 5, 2017 by Dragazer

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

How come no one is asking Octavia to be nerfed? Her 1 has infinite damage scaling like Limbo's 4. Her 2 has amazing crowd control like Limbos 2. And before you say Limbo has better survivability because of his rift mechanics, Octavia has almost better stealth than Loki if not better. And last time I checked, stealth is better than rift.

This is why we can't have nice things. Instead of nerfing frames (and weapons), rework them to be better. All these nerfs makes it so we can't get higher level content.

bullet sponge satellite cannons =/= challenge. enemy scaling and AI need an overhaul. 

 

2 hours ago, RedDustySword said:

He is just as balanced as MESA quit trying to nerf frames and get DE to buff frames so they can add higher level content, so tired of you kind of people.

hahaha no. in order for DE to balance anything they need to see both sides of the scale. acting like only your side matters is well... you get the picture. i for one have no problems with his damage or his builds my greatest issue is with Stasis. the rifts is the most powerful CC in the entire game because you can remove a handful/Area from material plane effectively removing the threat of danger so add that to time scale? no other frame is as disruptive as limbo is currently with stasis. ive seen a few ideas about only freezing enemy fire and forcing them into melee then someone piped up and was like "we dont need it to be like radial disarm" current stasis + cata = chilling globe so... but even then chilling globe just freezes the enemies and they shatter when killed.

Limbo has been and always will be a solo frame. his kit gives him complete control over what happens in the squad meaning if another squad member wants to do something they have to get permission from limbo first on that im on the side that says they need to take another pass at it. he is not a time lord he is master of dimensions.

Edited April 5, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[PatternistSlave]

On 4/3/2017 at 11:19 AM, brainjelly2g0 said:

I want to preface this by saying Limbo was my favorite frame before the rework, and he still is. However, he now currently has every facet of the game cornered in the cheesiest way.

Support? Anyone on your squad goes down, Papa Limbo can revive them with ease.

Defense? He can make the pod completely invincible to enemies, and can stop them from accessing it completely. Hostages too, but that's always been his meta.

Survivability? Tap shift. Do that, and you literally gain energy for your efforts, while being invincible.

Offense? Cataclysm takes 10% of the combined health and armor of all enemies inside it, and when it collapses, deals that. Basically, if you have 10 enemies within your 4, and hit it again, they all die. And it scales. Endlessly. This is literally the most powerful ability in-game.

 

Now, how do you fix him? Well, DE, you need to focus on what he should be, because having Limbo be everything is clearly broken as hell.

 

The Supporter

  Reveal hidden contents

This Limbo would be focused on protecting allies, and buffing them with movement speed and damage in the Rift.

Rift Passives-

2 energy per second for everyone, with 10 energy rewarded when enemies are killed inside the Rift.

Limbo Passive- 

4 energy per second, and 20 energy rewarded when enemies are killed inside the Rift. This incentivizes players to be inside Limbo's Cataclysm, and him using it as a large-range buff-zone. He keeps his dodge.

Banish-

Can be cast on enemies or allies, from any plane, and will send them into the other plane. If cast on the same plane, it is an AoE. If cast on different planes, it's single-target. Basically, it lets Limbo act as either a squad-saver or an Assassin, who focuses solely on Heavies.

Stasis-

2-second drain at base, which goes down to .5 with maxed efficiency. Cancels out Energy Regen. Stasis is ridiculously powerful, and having it not drain energy is a very weird design flaw. 

Freezes all enemies, but doesn't effect projectiles. Currently, players are completely useless if they're in a mission with a Max-Range Limbo, who likes Stasis, and his allies don't know it at first. If they forgot a melee, or wanted to level one specific gun, then they're boned. Having it not effect Projectiles encourages players to actually bring a Limbo along.

Rift Surge-

I loved the old Rift Surge, but I also love the new one. Combining them would be perfect, as it would make Limbo a small step-down of Banshee in terms of team damage.

All Allies in the Rift gain XX damage multiplier, and all enemies in the Rift are surged. If those enemies leave the Rift, they banish others around them, causing permanent Rifting. Perhaps you could cut the damage multplier's scaling with power-strength, but beyond that, I think this is a much needed change.

Cataclysm- 

No longer shrinks in size, but also does not deal damage. Enemies who enter will be stunned momentarily, unless Stasis is up. Items and Consoles still enter the Rift. That just makes sense. This is mostly a return to old-Cataclysm, but with some touch-ups to some of its components. 

Goals-

As you can see, the main purpose of this Limbo is to turn him into a Support-Defensive frame, which is a niche not too populated currently(except Icy Avalanche Frost). If this route were used, cheese would lessen, but Limbo would emerge in the meta slowly, and his hardcore fans would appreciate the changes.

 

The Nuker

  Reveal hidden contents

Rift Passive-

The Rift on its own has no passives.

Limbo Passive-

No longer regens energy in the Rift, but still gets 10 energy per enemy killed. Keeps Dodge

Banish-

Tap to Banish one person. Hold to Banish group. Single Target will be knocked down, while AoE will be staggered. Deals no damage.

Stasis-

Completely scrapped. It's simply too powerful for a DPS frame. It's instead replaced by-

Rift Pulse-

This ability is designed to be wonky. Basically, it's a timer. At a base of 15 seconds, during that time, it takes 15% of the EHP of all enemies who have entered or exited the Rift, and deals it to all enemies inside the Rift at the end of its duration. Does not count enemies twice..This ability encourages many enemies to be in the Rift, but also puts Limbo's DPS on a timer, so that he can't just spam his 4 to kill everyone.

Rift Surge-

Multiplies all damage dealt in the Rift by 2.5x. When used with Rift Pulse, you're basically guaranteeing your enemies deaths.

Cataclysm-

It now Shrinks at double the rate, but then grows for the other half of its duration. Deals no damage. This encourages Limbo to use one, rather than many, then go around Banishing groups in time for the Rift Pulse.

 

Goals-

My intention for this is obvious. Completely turn Limbo into damaging frame. However, to maintain his uniqueness, Rift Pulse was added, so it's not simply press 4 to win. 

These are the two ways I can see Limbo going, with both specializing him, reducing his ridiculous power across the board, while buffing whatever niche DE wants him to feel. If you have suggestions, or a different specialization idea, please put it down below.

What I'd like to know is why it would matter if Limbo was really good?  There are a lot of really really good frames that can trivialize most any content.  So long as they're fun, why do you care?  I was one of the very few who actually played Limbo before the rework.  He can still be played exactly the way he always was if you wanted.  He's a lot more fun now though.  It's a PvE game.  Isn't having fun the most important part?

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

bullet sponge satellite cannons =/= challenge. enemy scaling and AI need an overhaul. 

Who said anything about bullet sponges? When I meant higher content, I meant the feeling of progression that you're getting farther into the game. More stuff to do without feeling your warframe's growth has peaked. Make the player feel they're getting stronger. Doesn't even always have to be related to difficulty. This is a horde game like Dynasty Warriors not Dark Souls.that's skill based. It feels bad when you're one shot because it makes you feel you're not strong enough. It feels good when you're wiping the floor with enemy squads.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

What I'd like to know is why it would matter if Limbo was really good?  There are a lot of really really good frames that can trivialize most any content.  So long as they're fun, why do you care?  I was one of the very few who actually played Limbo before the rework.  He can still be played exactly the way he always was if you wanted.  He's a lot more fun now though.  It's a PvE game.  Isn't having fun the most important part?

the problem is although its mostly a PVE game it has a heavy tone of online and when you factor in online you have to balance gameplay mechanics. id agree with you on that point if Warframe was a single player game. but it is not. and i agree he can still be played the old way (i still play him the same on spy rescue and defense).

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Who said anything about bullet sponges? When I meant higher content, I meant the feeling of progression that you're getting farther into the game. More stuff to do without feeling your warframe's growth has peaked. Make the player feel they're getting stronger. Doesn't even always have to be related to difficulty. This is a horde game like Dynasty Warriors not Dark Souls.that's skill based. It feels bad when you're one shot because it makes you feel you're not strong enough. It feels good when you're wiping the floor with enemy squads.

on this i strongly agree with you but higher lvl content is where game balance breaks currently.

[taiiat]

obviously the Scaling Damage on Cataclysm is too good to be true and requires either a notably smaller Percentage (like 2.5%) or a limited number of Enemies to take from).

but aside from that, it's also pretty lame that Power Strength is entirely unused on Limbo unless you use Rift Torrent or Haven.
this hasn't really changed from before... so it's equally as meh. all Mod Effects should always be relevant - no choices means every Loadout is identical and Mods are made pointless.

good places are a limit to the number of Enemies Stasis can hold simultaneously, the number of pockets Rift Surge can have present at any given time, Et Cetera.

21 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

That and his other 3 skills suck when you go for a full max range spam build

(literally none of the Abilities scale with Power Strength, the Rift Torrent/Haven Augment is the only thing that uses Power Strength)

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

4 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

on this i strongly agree with you but higher lvl content is where game balance breaks currently.

Actually the game has no higher level content at all. If you're referring to endurance runs that causes level 300 enemies to spawn, those aren't natural. You have to stick around for hours and you also don't get rewarded for it. Its just for epeen.

Highest level content in the game right now is raids and sorties. And we can't get anything higher than that because people wants to hold back progression. Also, they're not fun to do. Even at those levels, your warframes feel so weak getting one shot by an osprey's blue ball. So much for feeling like an omnipotent war god that warframes were led to be built up to.

Edited April 5, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[PatternistSlave]

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

when you factor in online you have to balance gameplay mechanics

No you really don't.  We're not in competition.  I think this is the problem a lot of you have.  You think you're in competition with me.  You're not.  And if you were?  I would win.  ^^

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Actually the game has no higher level content at all. If you're referring to endurance runs that causes level 300 enemies to spawn, those aren't natural. You have to stick around for hours and you also don't get rewarded for it. Its just for epeen.

Highest level content in the game right now is raids and sorties. And we can't get anything higher than that because people wants to hold back progression.

that is still the point the higher the lvl the only thing that changes are the enemy spawn type, number, health, shield, armor, and damage values. wanted higher content usually goes with want something more difficult. more progression would just mean more items higher lvl cap since that is the progression we have now. lvl weapons, frames, clear star chart, lvl mods etc. 

[Andrakax]

Let me preface the following rant with this: I love Warframe and I love the updates and constant improvements DE makes to the game and I hope they keep it up! Thank you!!
 

Now for the rant: DAFUQ is Limbo?  He's worse than the original Tonkor which killed and knocked back teammates.  He is so annoying to have on your team!  I don't play Limbo and I never will, just so that I don't have to torture my teammates...

The following is a list of reasons why limbo is a problem.  While I have played since beta and have leveled all but a few items in the game, please read the following through the lens of a new player:

• I don't understand how his rift works.  Sometimes I can kill in it and sometimes I can't.  WHY?!?!?
• It took me forever to find out that, if I roll, I can get out of the rift
  • Wait, that's only true if I've been specifically placed in the rift, not if you are in a rift bubble
• There is no quick/easy way to know if I've been placed in the rift or if there is a rift bubble.
• Finally, I can loot in the rift!!
• I can't shoot into the rift bubble.  This is very frustrating!
• Wait, I'm in the bubble, so is he, why are all my projectiles in a line and he's not dying???
• Ah, so in this last update, they made a rift tear that is left behind and I end up running into it sometimes WHEN I DON'T WANT TO!
• Can someone explain WHY I have to learn how Limbo works just so that I can play AROUND him???????!!!!!!

 

Frankly, Limbo is appalling. He is not intuitive, interruptive of my playing experience, and quite frustrating if you don't understand him, which would be every player who doesn't own him (I'm curious what THAT percentage is....).  I'd love to see changes made so that I can disable Limbo's effects on me, or something.  Not sure how that's even possible, but one can hope......

Please, I just want to play and kill... 

 

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, PatternistSlave said:

No you really don't.  We're not in competition.  I think this is the problem a lot of you have.  You think you're in competition with me.  You're not.  And if you were?  I would win.  ^^

umm lets take a look at other multiplayer shooters. mass effect 3, killing floor 1,2 hell even BL series. yes all these MP games have gotten a game balance change. none of their single player components didnt because in single player it doesn't matter. balance matters in MP not for competition but for people to work together if one person is overshadowing his team then the only people doing anything is that person therefor a balance change needs to happen. like when mirage would spam map wide blind that lasted forever completely neutering enemies. the game is not designed for you to always win either so if you are always winning there will be a balance change so that you dont.