[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

that is still the point the higher the lvl the only thing that changes are the enemy spawn type, number, health, shield, armor, and damage values. wanted higher content usually goes with want something more difficult. more progression would just mean more items higher lvl cap since that is the progression we have now. lvl weapons, frames, clear star chart, lvl mods etc. 

Well, there's nothing really wrong about that. Warframe is also a looter game. The objective of games like these has always been "gotta catch'em all." The game's design makes no attempt to hide this. And higher level content doesn't always mean difficulty at least not for a game like this. Its arcadey. You can use difficulty as a "gate" to lock content or progression behind it. And when a player gets "big" enough to finally bust through that gate, it feels good and rewarding knowing you've gotten strong.

Some call this power creep but Warframe is perfect for power creep because there's a lot of space to creep into.

[Moysa]

3 minutes ago, Andrakax said:

• I don't understand how his rift works.  Sometimes I can kill in it and sometimes I can't.  WHY?!?!?
• It took me forever to find out that, if I roll, I can get out of the rift
  • Wait, that's only true if I've been specifically placed in the rift, not if you are in a rift bubble
• There is no quick/easy way to know if I've been placed in the rift or if there is a rift bubble.
• Finally, I can loot in the rift!!
• I can't shoot into the rift bubble.  This is very frustrating!
• Wait, I'm in the bubble, so is he, why are all my projectiles in a line and he's not dying???
• Ah, so in this last update, they made a rift tear that is left behind and I end up running into it sometimes WHEN I DON'T WANT TO!
• Can someone explain WHY I have to learn how Limbo works just so that I can play AROUND him???????!!!!!!

1. if his cataclysm AND stasis is up, every shot you fire inside of it freezes, till one or both are released. melee bypasses this. if you are outside the rift and your target is inside, or vice versa, your weapon attacks do nothing. abilities bypass this.
2. true.
3. is there a wierd whitish glowy effect on you? are the edges of walls....for lack of a better word coming to mind, bending? is there an annoying audio playing in the background? then you're in the rift.
4. yes.
5. see 1
6. see 1
7. see your 2. or go around it.
8. hes not that difficult to understand. in fact, alot of frames get a hell of alot easier to work with if you actually try them

side note, if you ever go kuva farming, learn to love him. his recent rework makes them a complete joke since he can mass stasis the entire area. the only things not frozen in his giant bubble, is the siphon and the kuva clouds.

[PatternistSlave]

1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the game is not designed for you to always win

No.  It is.  Unlike PvP where there has to be a winner and a loser, content is designed to be winnable period.  Like examples?  How about when WoW made raids too hard and would nerf them to be winnable?  WF is not a shooter in the traditional sense.  Mirage blind was fine being nerfed because it wasn't particularly fun.  That's the part you're missing.  It's not about "overshadowing" your teammates.  Different frames do different things and generally a combination is going to be better than alone.  Have you tried Mesa with Limbo?  So long as it's fun it really doesn't matter.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, PatternistSlave said:

No.  It is.  Unlike PvP where there has to be a winner and a loser, content is designed to be winnable period.  Like examples?  How about when WoW made raids too hard and would nerf them to be winnable?  WF is not a shooter in the traditional sense.  Mirage blind was fine being nerfed because it wasn't particularly fun.  That's the part you're missing.  It's not about "overshadowing" your teammates.  Different frames do different things and generally a combination is going to be better than alone.  Have you tried Mesa with Limbo?  So long as it's fun it really doesn't matter.

fun is quite subjective. no developer can make again and say play it because its fun. what they do is they make a game get people intrested and make changes based on the feed back so that people can take what makes it fun for them from it. again you can only do that by making balance changes.

[Luzzu]

3 hours ago, Voidwielder said:

Hey, wth man. I'm just at the third stage of the quest (after years leaving it unactive). So shut the f**k up. Don't blame the "gun", blame the user (also the case of tonkor and simulor, btw reduce the knock back on every stacks DE).  Also "Freezes all enemies, but doesn't effect projectiles"... Do you not know how time freeze work? Have you ever played Quantum Break? Don't break the ability for your convenience (because it will get nerfed too)

I fail to see any logic in this. Warframe is not competitive in any way (until you get to Fashionframe ッ) so the entire point is gameplay. Fun. You know what's not fun? Limbo in defense missions killing an entire wave instantly with 2 buttons. I'm willing to bet Limbo players get pretty bored of it, too, after awhile.

 

2 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

No.  It is.  Unlike PvP where there has to be a winner and a loser, content is designed to be winnable period.  Like examples?  How about when WoW made raids too hard and would nerf them to be winnable?  WF is not a shooter in the traditional sense.  Mirage blind was fine being nerfed because it wasn't particularly fun.  That's the part you're missing.  It's not about "overshadowing" your teammates.  Different frames do different things and generally a combination is going to be better than alone.  Have you tried Mesa with Limbo?  So long as it's fun it really doesn't matter.

Warframe isn't World of Warcraft, not sure what analogy you're trying to make. Raids are designed to be challenging, not impossible, and not mindlessly easy for that matter. I think when Limbo can press 2 buttons to kill what ever thing he wants and how ever many of them there are, without skill or time spent, it's just stupid. If you think one player having fun at the expense of three others is okay, you have problems.

[PatternistSlave]

1 minute ago, Venule said:

without skill

There is no "skill" in Warframe and maybe you should play PvP if you want actual competition and stop trying to make a PvE game something it isn't.

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

fun is quite subjective. no developer can make again and say play it because its fun. what they do is they make a game get people intrested and make changes based on the feed back so that people can take what makes it fun for them from it. again you can only do that by making balance changes.

Well you lose then.  Feedback on Limbo is overwhelmingly positive.  I've been helping clanmates do the Limbo quest all week.  (Talk about not fun btw.  Limbo's quest.  That's an actual issue.)

[Luzzu]

9 minutes ago, Moysa said:

1. hes not that difficult to understand. in fact, alot of frames get a hell of alot easier to work with if you actually try them

side note, if you ever go kuva farming, learn to love him. his recent rework makes them a complete joke since he can mass stasis the entire area. the only things not frozen in his giant bubble, is the siphon and the kuva clouds.

You have to factor in newer players and ones not as up to date on changes as you might be. I'd like to think I stay involved in updates and what's going on, but come Limbo's rework, had no clue what was going on. I have my own things to do and learn. Trying to level and some Limbo who hardly even knows what he's doing is out there disrupting everyone else's fun. Everyone left that defense mission in the middle of it except for him.

 

I'll say in response to OP, it's annoying to have to learn Limbo in addition to what I'm already trying to figure out. And to say he's not difficult to understand is subjective and inaccurate. He can have such an impact over what his teammates do that not knowing can severely hinder you and be stressful for some. Octavia is a bit of the same way, but she can't outright prevent the team from dealing damage like Limbo can.

[Andrakax]

20 minutes ago, Moysa said:

1. if his cataclysm AND stasis is up, every shot you fire inside of it freezes, till one or both are released. melee bypasses this. if you are outside the rift and your target is inside, or vice versa, your weapon attacks do nothing. abilities bypass this.
2. true.
3. is there a wierd whitish glowy effect on you? are the edges of walls....for lack of a better word coming to mind, bending? is there an annoying audio playing in the background? then you're in the rift.
4. yes.
5. see 1
6. see 1
7. see your 2. or go around it.
8. hes not that difficult to understand. in fact, alot of frames get a hell of alot easier to work with if you actually try them

side note, if you ever go kuva farming, learn to love him. his recent rework makes them a complete joke since he can mass stasis the entire area. the only things not frozen in his giant bubble, is the siphon and the kuva clouds.

1) I worded this poorly.  I've seen situations where I'm in the rift bubble and the enemy is too, yet I can't kill him, melee or otherwise.

3) I can tell when I'm in the rift, I just can't tell if I'm in a bubble (whereby I can't roll out) or if I've been targeted for the rift (where I CAN roll out, thankfully).

5) This is a mixed feeling issue.  Frost's bubble is the same: annoying if you are outside, great if your inside.  Mag's magnetize makes nearby targets impossible to shoot, but makes for a great target killer... I guess I can handle this one.

7) True, I guess this really just boils down to a minor annoyance.

8) I agree that learning a frame makes it easier to work WITH other frames/players and build better synergy.  Limbo requires you to work AROUND him.  He interrupts your projectiles, flags enemies as unkillable when rifted, and frankly confuses you in what you can/can't kill/do when his powers activate.  He is literally requiring you to change how you play and/or learn how to play him in order to have him as a teammate.  No other frame is so invasive to a teammate's playing...

Edited April 5, 2017 by Andrakax

[Luzzu]

6 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

There is no "skill" in Warframe and maybe you should play PvP if you want actual competition and stop trying to make a PvE game something it isn't.

Well you lose then.  Feedback on Limbo is overwhelmingly positive.  I've been helping clanmates do the Limbo quest all week.  (Talk about not fun btw.  Limbo's quest.  That's an actual issue.)

And what is it that you think Warframe is, exactly? Because you're sitting here justifying an ability that can kill as many enemies that are in its range with the press of one button, at any level. Please point out where exactly I said that I wanted competition, because as it is, you've made up something I never said in order to prove a point you're failing to make. Warframe is about having fun. Limbo's Cataclysm is not fun. Try not to confuse my words again.

[Fallen_Echo]

45 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

What I'd like to know is why it would matter if Limbo was really good?  There are a lot of really really good frames that can trivialize most any content.  So long as they're fun, why do you care?  I was one of the very few who actually played Limbo before the rework.  He can still be played exactly the way he always was if you wanted.  He's a lot more fun now though.  It's a PvE game.  Isn't having fun the most important part?

You dare to have fun with this obviously OP annoying frame and kill the weakest faction than the rest of us?!

Disgusting.

 

But seriously the mentality what i showed upper is what ruins this game. Reading through the comments made me lose my faith in humanity again.

[ArchPhaeton]

On 4/3/2017 at 9:28 PM, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

... so I don't enjoy WoF or Spamulor's killing everything and letting everyone else go for a stroll behind them...

Public = anything may go on. From a completely useless squad (the common outcome) to nobody even playing.

You want to play in your own terms, make your own squad, play with friends or solo.

Sure, we need balance, but no1 should be entitled to define how other people enjoy their time. I usually let people be unless they are screwing up big time, as in actually making the mission fail or stuff like that.

[PatternistSlave]

6 minutes ago, Venule said:

And what is it that you think Warframe is, exactly? Because you're sitting here justifying an ability that can kill as many enemies that are in its range with the press of one button, at any level. Please point out where exactly I said that I wanted competition, because as it is, you've made up something I never said in order to prove a point you're failing to make. Warframe is about having fun. Limbo's Cataclysm is not fun. Try not to confuse my words again.

"Skill" is only relevant in a competitive environment.  "Skill" can only be measured by relation to other people.  It might not be fun, but say that.  Say why it isn't fun.  Don't throw around the word "skill" like it means something.

EDIT:  Oh and horde shooter i guess WF would be called?  It has a lot of different elements.  Most closely resembles Dynasty Warriors imo.

Edited April 5, 2017 by PatternistSlave
addition

[Fallen_Echo]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Well, there's nothing really wrong about that. Warframe is also a looter game. The objective of games like these has always been "gotta catch'em all." The game's design makes no attempt to hide this. And higher level content doesn't always mean difficulty at least not for a game like this. Its arcadey. You can use difficulty as a "gate" to lock content or progression behind it. And when a player gets "big" enough to finally bust through that gate, it feels good and rewarding knowing you've gotten strong.

Some call this power creep but Warframe is perfect for power creep because there's a lot of space to creep into.

Warframe is just like borderlands.

You fight and farm for hours to get powerful and when you finally get your hands on a weapon what nukes the entire map you feel great because you made it. You won there. You arr now ready for the next challange gate.

[Luzzu]

8 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

"Skill" is only relevant in a competitive environment.  "Skill" can only be measured by relation to other people.  It might not be fun, but say that.  Say why it isn't fun.  Don't throw around the word "skill" like it means something.

How delusional are you? So I can call someone over to my house who has never played Warframe and throw them into a sortie and they'll be able to do it? No problem whatsoever? What about all of the squad mates you and everyone else on this game have had that can't keep up and just keep dying, or they deal no damage even with good gear? You're exactly right, skill is measured in relation to others. That's why every time you play a mission, each person on your squad isn't dealing exactly 25%.

 

I bring up skill because a lot of the frames in this game (certainly not all of them) have skill ceilings. Go play Saryn. You have to learn quite a bit about her before you adopt the best strategy and use her optimally. From what I've heard, Nidus is very much the same way. It takes effort and time to learn how to play them well. You know what it would be called if you paired a good Saryn/Nidus player with a brand new player? Skill. Just because we're not fighting in Team Deathmatch doesn't mean skill isn't a factor.

 

So I'll stress it again. Limbo's Cataclysm is not fun to play with and it takes no skill whatsoever to use.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Venule

[shyguyk]

Limbo has a stupid strong damage amp with his rift surge augment. He doesn't need to erase enemies with cataclysm.

Maybe it should do damage to the enemy based on how long it was active (potentially making the cataclysm augment a damage booster). None of that negative duration stuff like old saryn tho

[PsiWarp]

Some more thoughts on team-friendliness and combat fluidity, when playing as and playing with a Limbo:

Rift Walk (passive) portals don't have a limit. Even though they last a short 5 seconds, in that time span Limbo can roll many times based on the need to maneuver around, placing down many entrances into the Rift. Allies have to a) evade, b) wait for portals to expire, or c) walk through then roll, so they can stay in the material plane and their standard gun-play is not disrupted.

This can get really annoying, really quickly. But on the other hand, Limbo does have a need to plane-shift constantly based on what he needs to accomplish, and sometimes (very often for me unfortunately) Limbo touches the portal by accident while maneuvering, leading to an unnecessary repeat of the same action to exit the Rift.

Banish as an AoE works well with Stasis, but the ability itself can become problematic. Sending a hallway full of enemies into the Rift, frozen in time, while your allies hack and slash and gun at them to no effect is still possible, especially when the Rift Surge + Cataclysm combo comes into the play. Normal Limbo players would go handle the enemies inside on their own, or be friendly and bring allies into the Rift using his portal or Banish or keep Cataclysm around.

But, that doesn't exclude the fact that Limbo can create a field (whole hallways and rooms full) of invulnerable enemies while closing all ways to enter the Rift for allies, forcing them to resort to spending energy for damage-dealing abilities while the bad apple in a top hat laughs at their misfortune. That's not a good feature to leave in the game in my eyes; even if it is a rare occurrence among the playerbase, the blame is on both the player for not being a good sport and for the abilities to allow it in the first place.

• Suggestions:
  • Move the portal mechanic from Rift Walk to both Banish and Cataclysm. Each of these abilities can only sustain 1 active portal at a time (so a Limbo can only have max. 2 portals in total active at a time).
    • For Banish, the portal spawns where Limbo stands when he casts the ability. For Cataclysm, the portal spawns at the center, after Cataclysm collapses.
    • Extend the lifetime of these portals to 15 seconds, giving allies enough time to use them without following Limbo's actions too closely. Entering the Rift via portals would still only grant allies 15 seconds temporary access.
  • Only allow allies (not Limbo himself) to use the portals. Limbo controls his own plane state through his rolling and Cataclysm crossing.
  • Passing through portals allows allies to both enter and exit the Rift. Not everyone knows to use roll when Limbo is around, so the portals can serve as an alternative visible entrance or exit.

These changes would result in

1. Allowing Limbo a greater degree of freedom when rolling around without bothering allies or accidentally undoing his intent to go back to the material plane,
2. Giving allies a bigger window of opportunity to opt-into the Rift whenever Limbo casts his abilities that relate to bringing things in or out of the Rift (Banish and Cataclysm), without needing Limbo to specifically target them,
3. Providing players a visual learning tool and a way to opt-out of the Rift, without prior knowledge or need to research about using roll to exit the Rift.

Edited April 5, 2017 by PsiWarp

[PatternistSlave]

1 minute ago, Venule said:

isn't dealing exactly 25%

You're talking to someone that generally plays support in games.  PvP games.  Where skill is an actual thing.  Equating damage to "skill" is ridiculous.  Having good gear is not a skill.  You're confusing game knowledge and progression with skill.  The skill level it takes to play warframe is nonexistent.  Which is fine.  Not every game has to be dark souls or dota2.

[Huanthus]

19 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

I started becoming Limbo main after playing his quest. His personality and playstyle matches mine very well, introvert and playful to name a few.
Personally, I don't use Rift Torrent build, my weapon damage is sufficient and usually extract ~60mins in old void survival.

Prior to this rework, most players dislike him and would leave the game whenever they see that I am using Limbo, thinking that they would be trolled.
Occasionally, some players would say in chat "LIMBO!!!" and feel excited about it, probably because not a lot of Limbo playing on public missions.
Despite all the negative view on him, I still played him for almost all missions.
And goes "I like him" whenever someone asked me "why you keep playing Limbo in Exterminate", "why you don't bring Frost in Defense", "Loki is better for Spy" and so on. I just smile in my heart and in my head "too bad you don't really understand Limbo".

Everything is fine until Sortie came out.
I hate it when people who initially disliked/hated Limbo, started using him in Sortie Defense and Rescue.
In my mind, I was like "Come on... I thought you guys said that he is the worse frame, hated him to the core and that Limbo players are trolls." and "Stop using him and go use your own favorite frames instead. He is crap, slow and cumbersome to play, right?".

Personally, I usually do not recommend Limbo to people as I find that most players just don't fully understand him. Most said that "I know him, he is all about isolation" or any sentences that try to simplify him and so on. I would go "-_-" and sigh...

In my eye, he is nowhere near the "D tier" that people labeled him as. In fact, he is considered top tier and should require higher Mastery Rank and skill to use him.
People are trying to compare and balance him with other lower tier frames(elemental) such as Ember, Frost, Volt and Mag, which I find ridiculous.

Using X-Men as an analogy.
Limbo is like Phoenix(class 5 mutant) in X-men: The Last Stand.
How can you compare Phoenix(Limbo) with Pyro(Ember), Iceman(Frost), Storm(Volt) and Magneto(Mag)?
Some powers are just at the different tier/class, comparing and balancing powers of different tier doesn't make much sense.
It is like comparing Mag's power to manipulate magnetic field with Nyx's mind control or Loki's invisibility.
It is like comparing grenade/rocket launcher with small firearms(pistol/rifle).

I feel that DE should have some form of tier/class for frames instead of trying to balance along with all other frames, especially different frames have different uses and playstyle.
And reworks older frame's powers to be scalable instead of fix damage number and add more synergies between abilities.

As a Master of the Rift, Limbo has control over anything in the Rift plane and if you know, Space and Time are related.
To those who uses Limbo by spamming Cataclysm, you are just looking for "press-4-to-win" alternatives, and don't fully understand Limbo's personality and to enjoy playing with him as intended.

To those who don't understand why Limbo and Stasis are fun, feel that it is slow and better of spamming Cataclysm, watch this:

Those people who feel that Stasis is disruptive to team play and feel like they are Wolverine, Professor X or Magneto, I can understand.
But hey, this is Limbo. At least you can still move and melee, even though that disrupt Limbo having fun.

You know what? Maybe we, Limbo players should just play alone...

Feeling i got to meet a long lost brother, my feedback on limbo is so far:

Awesome been able to play it on several other game modes than i used to and interesting ways.

Really surprised to its wave clear now.

Great synergy between skills and a logical implementation of skills.

 

 

[Luzzu]

Just now, PatternistSlave said:

You're talking to someone that generally plays support in games.  PvP games.  Where skill is an actual thing.  Equating damage to "skill" is ridiculous.  Having good gear is not a skill.  You're confusing game knowledge and progression with skill.  The skill level it takes to play warframe is nonexistent.  Which is fine.  Not every game has to be dark souls or dota2.

I specifically brought up damage because I've gone into missions with unranked gear yet done the most damage using it. Skill, as defined by Merriam-Webster, reads as follows:

a :  the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance

b :  dexterity or coordination especially in the execution of learned physical task

So, no. I'm not confusing game knowledge with skill. Knowledge is a component of skill. You need to know how to do something before you can do it well. If I know how to play Saryn well and then I go into a game and play her well, that's me exercising my knowledge of Saryn and my mechanical abilities in playing the game. That is, by definition, skill.

 

You really can't continue making the argument you're making, especially when you can only make a straw man out of my responses. You are arguing outside of reality with your own warped definition of what skill is. Warframe takes skill, obviously not as much as other things because as a cooperative, horde defense game, it will have a relatively low skill ceiling. Doesn't mean it's nonexistent.

Now, are you going to answer my question on whether or not I can get someone foreign to Warframe to do my daily sorties? Because I'm pretty sure without proper knowledge of the game and knowing the mechanics of the game play itself, they lack the skill required to do so. In the same way that Limbo requires no skill to do what other frames require skill to do.

[(PSN)Xx_Weasle_xX]

1 hour ago, Andrakax said:

The following is a list of reasons why limbo is a problem.  While I have played since beta and have leveled all but a few items in the game, please read the following through the lens of a new player:

• I don't understand how his rift works.  Sometimes I can kill in it and sometimes I can't.  WHY?!?!? (Then learn the mechanics of it instead of saying NERF IT)
• It took me forever to find out that, if I roll, I can get out of the rift (Problem solved, you learned more about the game)
  • Wait, that's only true if I've been specifically placed in the rift, not if you are in a rift bubble (SO?)
• There is no quick/easy way to know if I've been placed in the rift or if there is a rift bubble. (Personal problem.)
• Finally, I can loot in the rift!! (Congrats)
• I can't shoot into the rift bubble.  This is very frustrating! (So are people asking for nerfs non stop.)
• Wait, I'm in the bubble, so is he, why are all my projectiles in a line and he's not dying???
• Ah, so in this last update, they made a rift tear that is left behind and I end up running into it sometimes WHEN I DON'T WANT TO!
• Can someone explain WHY I have to learn how Limbo works just so that I can play AROUND him???????!!!!!!

 

Please, I just want to play and kill... (So did the people who used the Tonkor, but look where that got people).

 

To be honest, I hope all the players who loved Tonkor get limbo and do nothing but troll people all day everyday.

Limbo can be their white knight for payback for getting a fun weapon nerfed.

[Zinthir]

It honestly boggles me how so many people are ok with blatantly overpowered abilities, saying that you should just leave or balance doesn't matter in a PvE.

Should there be an option to just automatically kill every enemy that spawns? Should there just be an option to gain however much affinity you want at the click of a button? 

Non-interactive weapons/abilities that trivialize content further than it already has been have zero positives besides making progressing easier, progress which doesn't matter when content is already trivialized. Power creep is expected, and pretty much impossible to negate. But keeping the meta from one player just mashing a button as the other 3 sit back and roll in affinity has been the theme of a large majority of DE's past nerfs. 

Really though, Cataclysm and Stasis will be nerfed eventually. I just hope DE keeps Limbo a top tier frame.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Zinthir

[PatternistSlave]

3 minutes ago, Venule said:

You are arguing outside of reality with your own warped definition of what skill is.

 

24 minutes ago, Venule said:

You're exactly right, skill is measured in relation to others. That's why every time you play a mission, each person on your squad isn't dealing exactly 25%.

Cause it's damage, huh?  Yup.  Me and my warped definitions.

5 minutes ago, Venule said:

I can get someone foreign to Warframe to do my daily sorties? Because I'm pretty sure without proper knowledge of the game and knowing the mechanics of the game play itself, they lack the skill required to do so

I was doing sorties a week into playing the game.  Most people with basic gaming experience could figure it out.  I'm sorry it's hard for you, but that doesn't make doing it a skill.

7 minutes ago, Venule said:

the same way that Limbo requires no skill to do what other frames require skill to do.

I'm sorry it's hard for you, but that doesn't make doing it a skill.

[Luzzu]

8 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

 

Cause it's damage, huh?  Yup.  Me and my warped definitions.

I was doing sorties a week into playing the game.  Most people with basic gaming experience could figure it out.  I'm sorry it's hard for you, but that doesn't make doing it a skill.

I'm sorry it's hard for you, but that doesn't make doing it a skill.

But if sorties are hard for me, would that not mean that I'm bad at Warframe? Or, to word it in a different way, I lack the skill needed to complete sorties?

Being good at something = possessing the skill needed to do it well

Being bad at something = not possessing the skill needed to do it 

 

Do you see now how deep this hole you're digging yourself into is getting? Limbo requires no skill to do what other frames need skill to do. 

 

Oh, and also, here's the definition of ad hominem, the second logical fallacy you used against me by insulting me instead of simply answering the question that would prove you are wrong: 

1:  appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect an ad hominem argument

2:  marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Venule

[Huanthus]

Granted cataclysm hits like a truck but thematically and namely speaking its a cataclysm, it should erradicate things. Now you are complaining about  having a big cata killin lots of stuff but let me remind you rift surge did not cause a radial banish on enemies that left the rift while surged on the beta it actually made a bunch of mini cataclysms so i feel limbo was released quite balanced for what it could have been.

I'd say that to limit the spamming you should limit the energy regen (10 per enemy killed inside of cata if remember correctly)  rather than nerfing the damage, ill say it again limbo's abilities naming fits, you banish from your sight (plane), put on stassis stuff and make em go kaboom after a cataclismic event.

[QQSausage]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Nullifiers punish Limbo harder as the the entire ability shuts off just from the nully touching it due to it being.

Destroying the bubble requires Limbo being out of the rift, and when paired with his fragile defensive stats is very risky.

 

I do agree range build limbo is fragile to nullifier if solo 

Even though i can't cc enemies with 4th due to the null (1st can still do though) ,i still can spam 4th like mag 2nd before nerfed( which needs strength,range and energy  mods just for corpus)

Anyway it's just my opinion 

Here's my thought : cc to infested and grineer too powerful as well as aoe to i,c,g(low level)  and aren't nullifiers the pain for every warframe  ?