[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nox_Terminus]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

The only thing that needs to be balanced is Cataclysm. The rest of limbo's kit is fine. Quick question why does halve of the player base wants limbo nerf now? I mean he just got his rework. I understand that his cataclysm spam is a problem but that's the only thing that needs balancing really. Another thing how many of you have a valid reason for limbo to be nerf? 

This guy gets it.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I also contribute a thanks to the rework for Limbo.

[Muao]

Just now, Fallen_Echo said:

Im sorry but limbo could do that before the rework too or atleast most of it.

So I said he should be Nerfed, not changing his skill or something, so that fewer player would use him.

Time froze is a pain in the &#!, I hate it so much that it barely helps me in the game.

Rhino could do almost the same but nothing annoying at all. 

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

How about this guys? Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.

 

Currently its 10% of their health and shield, which is pretty low plus 500 (this one is affected by strenght the percentage is not)

If theres 1 enemy in the rift with 1000 hp, than it will deal 100 damage.

Now this will only become problematic if there is 10 enemies in the rift. At this poimt only the heavies survive who have double hit points.

Armor wont grant more damage so having enemies with 10% damage resistance will cause the rift to fail killing enemies.

[Thanos]

On 4/4/2017 at 2:44 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Have you seen how many people was against the tonkor nerfs?

Most people  on the forums want buffs not nerfs but as the old internet saying goes "the worst part of the community is the loudest".

People dont want to nerf limbo at all but these wannabe "skillful" guys cant take that, this thing kills faster than me and my "OP" bow, nerf it.

This guy gets it. Summed up my thoughts in a few sentences. +1

Too bad DE is gonna nerf it into the ground. Sigh..

Enjoy it while it lasts people.

#No-Fun-Allowed 

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, Andrakax said:

Let me preface the following rant with this: I love Warframe and I love the updates and constant improvements DE makes to the game and I hope they keep it up! Thank you!!
 

Now for the rant: DAFUQ is Limbo?  He's worse than the original Tonkor which killed and knocked back teammates.  He is so annoying to have on your team!  I don't play Limbo and I never will, just so that I don't have to torture my teammates...

The following is a list of reasons why limbo is a problem.  While I have played since beta and have leveled all but a few items in the game, please read the following through the lens of a new player:

• I don't understand how his rift works.  Sometimes I can kill in it and sometimes I can't.  WHY?!?!?
• It took me forever to find out that, if I roll, I can get out of the rift
  • Wait, that's only true if I've been specifically placed in the rift, not if you are in a rift bubble
• There is no quick/easy way to know if I've been placed in the rift or if there is a rift bubble.
• Finally, I can loot in the rift!!
• I can't shoot into the rift bubble.  This is very frustrating!
• Wait, I'm in the bubble, so is he, why are all my projectiles in a line and he's not dying???
• Ah, so in this last update, they made a rift tear that is left behind and I end up running into it sometimes WHEN I DON'T WANT TO!
• Can someone explain WHY I have to learn how Limbo works just so that I can play AROUND him???????!!!!!!

 

Frankly, Limbo is appalling. He is not intuitive, interruptive of my playing experience, and quite frustrating if you don't understand him, which would be every player who doesn't own him (I'm curious what THAT percentage is....).  I'd love to see changes made so that I can disable Limbo's effects on me, or something.  Not sure how that's even possible, but one can hope......

Please, I just want to play and kill... 

 

Long before his rework limbo was exactly this annoying to have in the team. The only reason you havent see him many times is because he was generally useless.

Now they reworked him to be useful and this means you will see him more.

[Fallen_Echo]

5 minutes ago, Muao said:

So I said he should be Nerfed, not changing his skill or something, so that fewer player would use him.

Time froze is a pain in the &#!, I hate it so much that it barely helps me in the game.

Rhino could do almost the same but nothing annoying at all. 

So you want it to be nerfed it to the ground so less people would use him and less people would annoy you with his skills?

Go to a doctor please, this level of salt is unhealthty. Seriously you are the prime example of whats wrong with the community.

Im saving this down, this should be a great example of backward thinking.

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

9 minutes ago, Muao said:

So I said he should be Nerfed, not changing his skill or something, so that fewer player would use him.

Time froze is a pain in the &#!, I hate it so much that it barely helps me in the game.

Rhino could do almost the same but nothing annoying at all. 

Here's one of the ideas that I pitched to make stasis team friendly.

To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary weapons can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.

[DinendalMinyatur]

19 minutes ago, Muao said:

So I said he should be Nerfed, not changing his skill or something, so that fewer player would use him.

Time froze is a pain in the &#!, I hate it so much that it barely helps me in the game.

Rhino could do almost the same but nothing annoying at all. 

Lol what a selfish way to do nerfs.

You could have suggested "Limit the number of enemies getting frozen but in turn buff it so that teammates bullets won't be frozen"

Sigh... Sad to see people are sellfish and lack of empathy.

 

Edit: Actually stasis doesn't need a rework. All it needs is some smart-play.

To Limbo's:Why the hell are you stopping everything?. Unless it's an oh shi- moment freezing all enemies on a large portion of map is a bad idea. Maps are big, if it's a defense/interception/survival mission hold a chokepoint and you'll relieve some tension on your teammates.

To Limbo Teammates: Why the hell are you trying to kill everything on the map at once? Maps are big you can't be on multiple places at the same time unless you delve into some quantum physics. Let the Limbo hold a strategic point and focus on other parts of the map.

Some people may ask: What about exterminate/rescue/sabotage missions?

Surely those missions can be done without any warframe power. Therefore Limbo should refrain from overusing stasis in such cases.

Edited April 5, 2017 by DinendalMinyatur
Added more thoughts

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

15 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Currently its 10% of their health and shield, which is pretty low plus 500 (this one is affected by strenght the percentage is not)

If theres 1 enemy in the rift with 1000 hp, than it will deal 100 damage.

Now this will only become problematic if there is 10 enemies in the rift. At this poimt only the heavies survive who have double hit points.

Armor wont grant more damage so having enemies with 10% damage resistance will cause the rift to fail killing enemies.

I understand what you're saying. I'm just pitching ideas on how to balance out cataclysms damage so it won't be the only power some players use. 

[-_Highlander_-]

 wow limbo's 4th is way to OP 

 

Goodbye Mirage ..

 

Hellooooo limbo  

 

Spoiler

OOPS my bad giving you to much credit for it so lets nerf it shall we before we all spamming limbo's 4th ..

 

This is the community these days welcome where nothing is allowed even when this game is free to play 

 

Time that Dev's take control back and decide for us whats best

 

P.s 

If Dev's bring the conclave points back to every warframe like early days

 

then many problems will solve!

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by GameKingMike334
Iam so not an fan of nerfing this or that

[Muao]

2 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Lol what a selfish way to do nerfs.

You could have suggested "Limit the number of enemies getting frozen but in turn buff it so that teammates bullets won't be frozen"

Sigh... Sad to see people are sellfish and lack of empathy.

I don't care how Overpower Limbo could be cause it's a pve game, the problem is not on the warframe but on the players.

I am selfish because I want less annoyed?

There is another solution, train every limbo player to use it in a polite and proper way, which one easier? Anyone want to responsible for this? Volunteer?

[Fallen_Echo]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

I understand what you're saying. I'm just pitching ideas on how to balance out cataclysms damage so it won't be the only power some players use. 

Why is that a problem?

Have you seen novas? Press 4 and forget about the rest.

Inaros? Press 4 once and never use it anymore in the mission. Spam 1 to win.

Most warframes have atleast 1 useless skill in their arsenal and are modded toward 1 of the skills only.

Apart from octavia i dont have any frames where i truely use all of my skills and not just 1 or 2.

[Darkuhn]

The simple solution is imo: make Cataclysm's %based dmg scale negatively with Powerrange. So builds with huge Cataclysms can't oneshot anything and concentrated Cataclysms can do a little dmg.

this should solve the problem

[Quanlain]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

How about this guys? Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.

 

About stasis, actually. When allies hit enemies, if they do actually, enemies will die, just fire and forget. I was also thinking about at least "collecting damage" to deal it all at the same time, but this is the same thing as we have now. Otherwise stasis would be a bit unbalanced imho. Beign able to freeze tileset for a solid minute with no flaws is a bit too op for me. 

 

The real problem with cataclysm is not that it scales, but because it doesn't scale with power strenght, or it replenishes energy off of Limbo's passive. 

Currently, if you will build Limbo in negative strenght, he still will scale at max. Adding strength dependency will completely fix this problem. However i see much more problems with inability to interact with stuff during cataclysm. This is much more of a problem, that i described in the topic. 

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

5 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Why is that a problem?

Have you seen novas? Press 4 and forget about the rest.

Inaros? Press 4 once and never use it anymore in the mission. Spam 1 to win.

Most warframes have atleast 1 useless skill in their arsenal and are modded toward 1 of the skills only.

Apart from octavia i dont have any frames where i truely use all of my skills and not just 1 or 2.

You got me there even I thought about novas 4 but I never thought about Inaros 4.

[Fallen_Echo]

14 minutes ago, Muao said:

I don't care how Overpower Limbo could be cause it's a pve game, the problem is not on the warframe but on the players.

I am selfish because I want less annoyed? YES, theres a reason why we have pub matches. Anything can come.

There is another solution, train every limbo player to use it in a polite and proper way, which one easier? Anyone want to responsible for this? Volunteer?

Dude you just admitted that you want to trash a frame so less people would use it and less people would annoy you.

I hope every pub match you go will be filled with neon color miragulors.

[Darkuhn]

The simple solution is imo: make Cataclysm's %based dmg scale negatively with Powerrange. So builds with huge Cataclysms can't oneshot anything and concentrated Cataclysms can do a little dmg.

This should solve the problem

[Muao]

43 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

So you want it to be nerfed it to the ground so less people would use him and less people would annoy you with his skills?

Go to a doctor please, this level of salt is unhealthty. Seriously you are the prime example of whats wrong with the community.

Im saving this down, this should be a great example of backward thinking.

 

1 minute ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Dude you just admitted that you want to trash a frame so less people would use it and less people would annoy you.

I hope every pub match you go will be filled with neon color miragulors.

I did not say it should be nerfed to ground,

when he nerfed to a reasonable strength, there will be a reasonable appearance rate. simple math problem.

I did not see any selfish here.

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

8 minutes ago, Quanlain said:

About stasis, actually. When allies hit enemies, if they do actually, enemies will die, just fire and forget. I was also thinking about at least "collecting damage" to deal it all at the same time, but this is the same thing as we have now. Otherwise stasis would be a bit unbalanced imho. Beign able to freeze tileset for a solid minute with no flaws is a bit too op for me. 

 

The real problem with cataclysm is not that it scales, but because it doesn't scale with power strenght, or it replenishes energy off of Limbo's passive. 

Currently, if you will build Limbo in negative strenght, he still will scale at max. Adding strength dependency will completely fix this problem. However i see much more problems with inability to interact with stuff during cataclysm. This is much more of a problem, that i described in the topic. 

I can see his 4 scaling off of power strength. True he should be able to interact with stuff within the cataclysm like console, pads in raids, and the like. With his stasis I feel that his teammates bullets shouldn't be hindered by stasis. You know what I'm getting at right?

[DinendalMinyatur]

32 minutes ago, Muao said:

I am selfish because I want less annoyed?

No, I called you selfish because instead of offering a tweak which makes using Limbo  less problematic with teammates, you offerred Limbo getting outright nerfed so fewer player would use it.

32 minutes ago, Muao said:

There is another solution, train every limbo player to use it in a polite and proper way, which one easier? Anyone want to responsible for this? Volunteer?

Yeah I stated the same on my previous post

 

5 minutes ago, Muao said:

I did not say it should be nerfed to ground,

when he nerfed to a reasonable strength, there will be a reasonable appearance rate. simple math problem.

I did not see any selfish here.

Problem is common played frame =/= OP

Should we nerf Frost because it always appears on a defense mission?

Or let's nerf Loki because they are always in a spy mission.

You keep failing at adressing the problem. It's not the frequent appearance of limbo, it's the problem of his skills being annoying on teammates.

Cataclysm spammers are annoying? Yes Stasis spammers are annoying? Yes

So tweak those skills and he'll be less annoying for teammates.

Also If something is new you'll see a high apperance rate on pugs for a while. Remember how people keep playing with Nidus when he first came out? Now the rates are downed since he's no longer new.

Edited April 5, 2017 by DinendalMinyatur

[Quanlain]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

I can see his 4 scaling off of power strength. True he should be able to interact with stuff within the cataclysm like console, pads in raids, and the like. With his stasis I feel that his teammates bullets shouldn't be hindered by stasis. You know what I'm getting at right?

Currenly, only starting impact damage scales with power strength, not cataclysm damage on closing. 

About stasis: well, i said. If you would be able to lock down 50 meter area for your team to kill freely, that would be a bit too op, bullet freeze oinda balances it out. 

And yoy can always use melee/break stasis with some weapons. 

I'm sure that stasis will not be a problem if cataclysm damage will be tweaked. Because with power str scaling, there will be no way to build through huge radius and huge strength at the same time. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Quanlain

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

6 minutes ago, Quanlain said:

Currenly, only starting impact damage scales with power strength, not cataclysm damage on closing. 

About stasis: well, i said. If you would be able to lock down 50 meter area for your team to kill freely, that would be a bit too op, bullet freeze oinda balances it out. 

And yoy can always use melee/break stasis with some weapons. 

I'm sure that stasis will not be a problem if cataclysm damage will be tweaked. Because with power str scaling, there will be no way to build through huge duration and huge strength at the same time. 

Okay I understand what you're saying. So you have pick one to build towards with range in mind. Like power range and power duration or Power range and duration. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by (PS4)Seabastion25
redit

[Helljack84]

It's amusing to see people desperately trying to defend the most ridiculous nuke the game ever had. 

On the cheesiest Frame the game ever had.

[DeMonkey]

22 minutes ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

Problem is common played frame =/= OP

Should we nerf Frost because it always appears on a defense mission?

Or let's nerf Loki because they are always in a spy mission.

Just want to weigh in and say that you didn't really help your case.

Snowglobe is debateably OP for defence missions, in fact I'd even go so far as to say it's objectively OP. It's stackable and it's casts can be chained in such a way that it never leaves it's invulnerability absorb period and pushes anything that gets inside to the other end of the room.

It removes the objective from play, there's no reason to defend an objective that's untouchable.

Loki, or rather his Invisibility, is also debateably OP for spy missions. Again, it removes the Objective. What's the use in having Cameras and Security guards patrolling if you can press 2 and walk right past them. Ivara is of course worse, her augment removing any danger of failing the vault. You might as well spawn in a room with 3 consoles to hack and get your rewards there and then.

To clarify, I say these 2 are OP because they're powerful enough to trivialise the completion of the objective to such a point that there might as well not be an objective.