Revisiting the need for a kicks and filters.

[Ryunokage]

Limbo's latest rework and rampant abuses have demonstrated the long unmet need that warframe has for a kick function.

However this is only the latest example of anti-social abuses that players can get up to, aided and abetted by game design, which fall into a grey area which DE may not have sufficient grounds to enact punitive action upon.

We have had prior examples to this, including mirage-spam, soundquake banshees and other associated abuses that, while having little but benefit to the player abusing it, have otherwise made the game all but unplayable for his squadmates.

Given that DE is but a small company with only so many staff, I would believe it to be a stretch to think that they could keep on top of player behavior and arrest issues like this in a reasonable degree of time. You need only look at how long it took before the simulor, telos boltace and tonkors were addressed. While there are ongoing and long standing issues with exploitative builds still possible in the game.

We need to have stop-gap measures like matchmaking filters and kick options that would allow players to take action on their own accord, just to tide them over till DE can address the issues raised. I believe it is time to revisit the idea of kicks and matchmaking filters give the especially disruptive nature of limbo abuse.

 

[MagPrime]

While I will never support kicking someone for playing the way they want, short of trolling, I do advocate for the need for better matchmaking and team building mechanics.

[WindigoTG]

The main reason I NEED a kick function - tennos who constantly give the operative in defence missions some useless crap of a weapon and prolonging the mission to infinity, instead of letting him use Hikou P. and shred everything in seconds.

A function to punch these tennos in the face through monitor would be quite usefull too, but kicking would be a good start.

 

---- update ----

 

Going back to clarify that I do not want to be too provocative and do not intend this as an actual argument in favor of a kick feature.

Consider it as, I dunno, a vent of frustration, I guess?

In reality such situations isn't really a problem. Not the one "Friends only" option can not solve, anyway.

Edited April 12, 2017 by WindigoTP

[IX-44]

3 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

The main reason I NEED a kick function - tennos who constantly give the operative in defence missions some useless crap of a weapon and prolonging the mission to infinity, instead of letting him use Hikou P. and shred everything in seconds.

A function to punch these tennos in the face through monitor would be quite usefull too, but kicking would be a good start.

You know you can force swap the weapon back, right?

[WindigoTG]

Just now, ChargeBeam said:

You know you can force swap the weapon back, right?

Yes, but they know it too.

[artemisfortune]

3 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

Yes, but they know it too.

That's a dumb reason to want a kick feature. Pretty selfish too.

[WindigoTG]

Just now, JSharpie said:

That's a dumb reason to want a kick feature. Pretty selfish too.

Implying any other reason anyone would come up with isn't.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

That's a dumb reason to want a kick feature. Pretty selfish too.

And a pretty good example of "abuse" 

[(PSN)Nek_Food]

Kick is not an option if you ask me... If you are now complaining about other players "trolling" you with using warframe's abilities or weapons you just don't like yourself, trust me when they start kicking you off the game in random times with/without any cause, I believe it will be worst for you. If you ask me, you know it will going to be the ultimate trolling "ability" and you know it will going to happen, it will happen in numerous times and then you will end up here complaining to DE to remove the same thing you now ask to add. If you don't like other players' behavior in the missions, then there are a couple of options available for you in game: 

1. Friends only

2. Invitations only

3. Solo

Choose the one that better fits your needs.

[Syndrella]

I am against any kind of kick option because that is highly abusable and there are no guarantee to kick the wrong person because everyone can kick others with no reason. The matchmaking is hard, because currently there aren't restrictions and you can play randomly with peoples so you can find a low level group or high level and not really helps the current map system the process.

The lower level players play the beginner maps because forced to do them which causes many leaves because their process is slow and closed behind timewalls.

Higher level players have no restriction to go back to low level to level up their gear which can cause boredom and demotivation for those whom haven't high level gears on low levels.

There need a function which split into different "tiers" the playerbase and players finally could play low-mid-high tier with their own pace.

 

[Xaero]

Revisiting the need of a kick function it's pretty obvious this function is not needed. Why? For the same reasons you want it to be introduced - abusing.

[artemisfortune]

8 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

Implying any other reason anyone would come up with isn't.

I mean yeah, good point. Kick features in non-competitive games are bad.

Kick features in competitive games aren't even that great either.

[Ryunokage]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Nek_Food said:

Kick is not an option if you ask me... If you are now complaining about other players "trolling" you with using warframe's abilities or weapons you just don't like yourself, trust me when they start kicking you off the game in random times with/without any cause, I believe it will be worst for you. If you ask me, you know it will going to be the ultimate trolling "ability" and you know it will going to happen, it will happen in numerous times and then you will end up here complaining to DE to remove the same thing you now ask to add. If you don't like other players' behavior in the missions, then there are a couple of options available for you in game: 

1. Friends only

2. Invitations only

3. Solo

Choose the one that better fits your needs.

1. Kicking remains an option, what you describe are issues with its implementation. DE could for example confine kick privileges to hosts, rather then a matter of a majority vote, if i should find myself in the circumstances you describe. I could eventually host the game myself and allow other people to play on my own terms.

2. All of the options you described are flawed, requiring an unequal investment of time and effort, as compared to what the matchmaker requires. Moreover it does not remain an option for newer players who have yet to build up a base of friends and other frequent acquaintances to play with.

 

7 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

That's a dumb reason to want a kick feature. Pretty selfish too.

Human behaviour is intrinsically selfish and self-serving. A kick function simply levels the playing field and allows people who are currently being shafted to take action without needing to go to a higher authority for help, an affair that takes time, isn't going to provide a resolution in the period of time in which a person might be playing, and has no guarantee that such a report would even be looked at. Again, a matchmaking filter would go a long way towards screening out undesirables, but again that isn't an available feature.

 

4 minutes ago, Syndrella said:

I am against any kind of kick option because that is highly abusable and there are no guarantee to kick the wrong person because everyone can kick others with no reason. The matchmaking is hard, because currently there aren't restrictions and you can play randomly with peoples so you can find a low level group or high level and not really helps the current map system the process.

The lower level players play the beginner maps because forced to do them which causes many leaves because their process is slow and closed behind timewalls.

Higher level players have no restriction to go back to low level to level up their gear which can cause boredom and demotivation for those whom haven't high level gears on low levels.

There need a function which split into different "tiers" the playerbase and players finally could play low-mid-high tier with their own pace.

 

1. The abuses you describe need to be balanced against the abuses that we currently suffer for not having a kicking feature, or even a filter feature for the matchmaker. I would argue that the potential for abuse that a kick feature would entail are lesser and more desirable then the issues we currently face.

2. Simply because higher level players have the capacity to trivialise the game for everyone else, does not mean they have the moral sanction to do so. More-over i would note that these abusers are capable of trivialising the game even at higher levels. The limbo in particular has mechanics that scale very well, nevermind how having one in play immediately screws a gun-focused player and forces them into melee.

Further more, the implementation of the MR now allows new or freshly formaed weapons to immediately have a modification capacity equivalent to a players MR, adjusted for potatoes

3. Your suggestion does not address the need for a means of punishing or otherwise making exploitative or abusive behaviour unprofitable. I might argue that a flagging system that specifically marks out abusive meta builds and lumps them together with other similarly flagged players is a more appropriate measure.

[Iceheart125]

I just counter with vauban. Banshee? Bounce them around. Operative have bad weapons? Bounce them around. Limbo being a troll? Guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zarr barrage.

[SeaUrchins]

I'd love a votekick option, though I realize most of the time it will be me getting kicked out.

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

I'd love a votekick option, though I realize most of the time it will be me getting kicked out.

Oh yeah.  I'm sure I'd be getting the boot constantly. 

[Syndrella]

4 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Oh yeah.  I'm sure I'd be getting the boot constantly. 

Nobody wish to kick from a team a MagPrime

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, Syndrella said:

Nobody wish to kick from a team a MagPrime

Psh. Speak for yourself.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

Psh. Speak for yourself.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, MagPrime said:

[WindigoTG]

9 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I mean yeah, good point. Kick features in non-competitive games are bad.

Kick features in competitive games aren't even that great either.

Well, in competitive games it can serve a purpose of dealing with cheaters. And more or less good implementation of it would be vote-kick.

But it isn't perfect either - there will always be bad players who will be seeing cheaters in legit good players, and a lot of people who will be willing to vote "yes" without thinking and just following the crowd.

As for co-op games in general and Warframe in particular, yeah, no real justifiable point to have a kick feature. Not even a vote-kick, because 4 people (or rather 3 who would be voting) just isn't enough to make it at least relatively fair.

And as for my initial post, I should go back and edit it to clarify that I don't mean it as an actual argument in favor of kicking. It sounded more joke-ish in my had when I wrote it, my bad.

[(PSN)Nek_Food]

The only thing I can think would work with your desires and perhaps could make you happy is when you put someone in your ignore list, he could never join to your squad again. Don't think is happening now and still you would have to be patient for that one game you get to play with the first time.

Splitting players into newcomers and high MR for preventing them into playing together, I don't think is necessary that much beneficial. Too much work to be done for so little positive result to actually earn. High MR players are not usually playing those very low (even middle) level planets or mission if in fact they are not helping someone (at least I am speaking for myself as a MR23 player). Usually after hitting the top in MR they are trying to find some challenge for themselves and middle/low level rank planets/missions are not offering any of that.

On the other hand, perhaps is mostly your problem not that others are constantly trolling you. You simply don't like other people not playing with your way. I myself usually don't care of how others play or if I do find something rather not useful in a mission, I usually write/suggest in the squad tab what I think they should do. For example if slow nova is ingame and her molecular is not helping yet unnecessary slowing down the progress of the mission I kindly ask the player not to use it "until really needed". After that I turn the "patience mode on" and move on with completing the mission.

[artemisfortune]

13 minutes ago, WindigoTP said:

Well, in competitive games it can serve a purpose of dealing with cheaters. And more or less good implementation of it would be vote-kick.

But it isn't perfect either - there will always be bad players who will be seeing cheaters in legit good players, and a lot of people who will be willing to vote "yes" without thinking and just following the crowd.

As for co-op games in general and Warframe in particular, yeah, no real justifiable point to have a kick feature. Not even a vote-kick, because 4 people (or rather 3 who would be voting) just isn't enough to make it at least relatively fair.

And as for my initial post, I should go back and edit it to clarify that I don't mean it as an actual argument in favor of kicking. It sounded more joke-ish in my had when I wrote it, my bad.

I realize that now. No worries.

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

I vote to kick this kind of topics from the forums.

[NecromancerX69]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

I vote to kick this kind of topics from the forums.