[DE]Taylor

The Second Stream Podcast: Oberon Revisited, 'Priest' Warframe, New Boss Fight & More

The Second Stream Podcast    560 members have voted

  1. 1. In your opinion, how useful are jack-of-all-trades Warframes like Oberon?

    • Very useful
      76
    • Somewhat useful
      244
    • Not useful
      169
    • Other (post an explanation below)
      8
    • No opinion
      47
  2. 2. What are you looking for in regards to a Warframe rework?

    • Cohesion between abilities
      298
    • Scalability
      348
    • Interesting and diverse powers
      293
    • Filling a niche
      110
    • Other (post an explanation below)
      7
    • No opinion
      10
  3. 3. What characteristics do you enjoy in Boss Battles?

    • Multi-stage fights
      260
    • Strategic attacks
      358
    • Non-combat aspects
      125
    • Other (post an explanation below)
      18
    • Don’t care, want loot (no opinion)
      58
  4. 4. In your opinion, how useful do you think filtered Chats will be for trading?

    • It’s a much-needed change
      218
    • More change is needed
      160
    • I don’t use Trade Chat for trading
      37
    • Other (post an explanation below)
      12
    • No opinion
      117
  5. 5. How excited are you for “Bobo”, a.k.a. the next Warframe?

    • MY BODY IS READY
      199
    • Pretty excited
      87
    • I want to see his abilities first
      227
    • He's 2edgy4me
      7
    • No opinion
      24

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60 posts in this topic

After a bit of a delay, the Second Stream is back with a couple new voices - NeoNess007’s and my own! Drew had to step out to tend to some unexpected Crewman duties, so I took the wheel this week. 

Listen in to hear community thoughts on what transpired in Devstream 90 (including the Oberon Rework, Ambulas Clan Event, Trade Chat, new Warframe, and more), and a few extra tidbits that came up along the way.

Guests:

@Momaw
NeoNess007
H3dsh0t (audio wasn’t recorded, unfortunately, but he was there in spirit!) 

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What are you looking for in regards to a Warframe rework?

If refers to Oberon: I WANT ANOTHER SUPPORT. Pleese, super Renewal.

I have a dream: Renewal who works as a Blessing.

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2. What are you looking for in regards to a Warframe rework?

Personally, I like abilities to have a cohesive theme with the warframe itself. Excalibur, the Holy Sword, has abilities based around using his sword. Nyx, goddess of night and chaos, sews chaos throughout the battlefield and turns her enemies to her friends. Atlas, titan of the earth, uses the ground itself to fight against his enemies. Ivara, bow of the warrior, is all about using her bow and arrows to destroy her enemies.

Oberon... Heals? Confuses? He's... Not very cohesive, either thematically or just mechanically.

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In your opinion, how useful do you think filtered Chats will be for trading?

This game would do well with a some kind of auction.  

If you're just browsing through trade chat, it can be a real hassle trying to catch up, or miss something you're actually looking for.  And before you know it, it's gone.

If players can just place what they're selling or wanting in a different mechanic then chat, it'd be easier to search it.  Even display if a player is online or not for that trade.

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#2. I like it more when they scale better in the game and have a more coherent theme than random powers. I never understood how Oberon powers fit his theme but I don't know too much about the fairy kind to begin with. Plus I think he should have his abilities work with Titania since he's the fairy king and she's the fairy queen. 

#3. I'm used to playing puzzle/adventure games and you're always having to come up with some interesting way to kick the bosses butt. Would be awesome to have one that makes us actually have to think to kill them, instead of just blindly shooting until they die. Though so far with the new clan event boss rounds, that looks freaking awesome. I'm going to have to really think that day when ever it comes out and I hope it's a good challenge. 

I wish we had more bosses that talked like Tyl Regor, I always fight him just to hear him speak. :D 

#5. From what we know about the exorcist (that's what he looks like to me), I dislike this warframe and probably will only use him like I do Oberon, only for MR points and then never using again. I really hope that none of his skills do anything like what they found when dating mining info about him. Sure most of the reason for that is because his skills sounded close to a frame concept I've been working on. The chances of it getting noticed is a zillion to 1 but I still hope that one day my tessenjutsu master/sentient comes to life. I just hope his skills are changed to not sound close to that, if he does I'll just be depressed and have to change all of that. I just really hope all the data mining info is 100% fake.

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oberon is not usefull
adding more chat channels will make it for people would have
to move between multiple channels to try to sell multiple types
of stuff  and same for buying stuff .

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Posted (edited)

38 minutes ago, Darkfeather21 said:

2. What are you looking for in regards to a Warframe rework?

Personally, I like abilities to have a cohesive theme with the warframe itself. Excalibur, the Holy Sword, has abilities based around using his sword. Nyx, goddess of night and chaos, sews chaos throughout the battlefield and turns her enemies to her friends. Atlas, titan of the earth, uses the ground itself to fight against his enemies. Ivara, bow of the warrior, is all about using her bow and arrows to destroy her enemies.

Oberon... Heals? Confuses? He's... Not very cohesive, either thematically or just mechanically.

Oberon is a Paladin that smites people with Radiation (holy energy in this case), protects his allies with Hallowed Ground (related to a paladin aura and sanctifying ground), and heals allies though not as well as a pure cleric (Trinity) with Renewal and through health orbs by finishing foes with Reckoning. His debuffs are mostly from his Radiation association (holy energy) but his also blinds and/or knocks down these enemies with his righteous power.

Why is a Paladin dressing like a White Stag? White Stags, similar to Unicorns later are considered sacred beasts connected to both martial and spiritual authority. Often White Stags or Unicorns are used as symbols of holy knight orders due to this; similar to Kirin (Kyrin) in some eastern cultures. Oberon's deluxe takes from a mix of trees and butterflies to attach the warframe more to his namesake as Oberon, the Fairy King with bonus points for some of the wing looking almost like a monarch butterfly.

As far as potential passives, it depends on which element of Oberon we would want to embrace. Oberon, the Fairy King is immune to all mortal means, sickness, and resistant to magic (powers) but can be dealt normal fatal wounds by iron though not steel funny enough. Paladins are immune to ailments and toxins and give off aura, usually leadership, bravery helping deals, or healing. Probably the best middle-ground would be either a greatly reduced or total immunity to elemental statuses while passing off physical status as cold iron related.

Edited by Urlan
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Questions you want answered:
1. Oberon specifically is useful not for cohesive role specific groups so much as 'slot him into pub matches.' 'Everyone does what he does better' is fair in specific skills. However it's more 'I can take him into a pub match and fill some kind of role' or 'on hey I can bounce from task to task as I see tasks to fill.' He DOES NOT scale. He shouldn't outshine specialists, but the thing is he a good backup option until he isn't. The fact there's almost a hard cliff on when Oberon is useful and when he's crap is where it hurts worse. He's great until he's useless. There's almost no between ground.

I see a place for Oberon and other 'jack of all trades' type frames in you can slot in and find a use? However I don't want Oberon to be a better trinity than Trinity, or a better Vauban than Vauban as examples. 

Oberon in specific? I think his role is mostly CC via radiation, except he needs more than just relying on spreading Radiation around.

2. What I'm looking for is being able to scale. NOt flat 'number' improvements so much as even if the playstyle has to shift? You still are useful and can do more than just dodge to survive. Look at Nidus. I do not want every new frame or Rework to have the stack mechanic, but I like that Nidus scales. I don't want a frame's rework to be stupidly OP in newbie levels and then completely useless later on. THe core of warframe to me is 'you can always find a use.'

After scaleability I'd like some kind of chesion between abilities. Take oberon for example. If you're On a hallowed Ground patch that should boost your abilities (strip a few points of armor when using smite? spreading hallowed ground micropatches when using reckoning, Giving an armor boost during renewal... as examples.)

FIlling a Niche is... tricky. AFter all with Oberon what is his niche? At face value 'no niche.' However Oberon is 'the guy you dump in a group when you don't know the group composition.

3: NO INVULNERABILITY PHASES. Please. Make the fights varied, multistage, challenging by having differant behaviors happen so it's not just 'aim tigurs at thing you want to stop existing.' especially since i hate 'bullet spounge' enemies. Those are boring as hell. I do like the idea you can do things in a stage to make the fight easier, but let's look at kela's fight. That in my opinion is a bad way to do it. A puzzle segment where you have missile barrage pressuring you. I have poor vision. I can't contribute when i'm pressured to have ot hit a specific tiny puzzle wheel thing whiel standing on a specific plate while rollerblls WHILE being trash talked (can I please shut kela up? Ditto worm? i want to congradulate whoever their VA's are for making me want to grab my computer and fling it out of a window because they WILL NOT SHUT UP.)

So like... step on a thing to have the stage stop hindering your damage delaers, or possibly to disable the spawn adds. 

Can we have the boss loot make sense on why that boss would drop a thing?

4. I just want to be able to type in what I'm wanting and 'oh hey this person is selling that.' Or with riven I've been trying ot offload a marlok riven and NOBODY is having interest. It's super disheartening when I literally can't find someone that wants what I'm selling and I log in to play, not constantly get rejected.

5. I'm wait and see on PopeFrame.

Bonus:

Can we have more interactions like the first mission of glast gambet? Y'know where we help a colony defend itself, maybe do some minor trading. I loved that mission because it showed the awe the normal colonist had for 'they're real?!'

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Posted (edited)

4. In your opinion, how useful do you think filtered Chats will be for trading?

Its pretty simple, ADD A AUCTION HOUSE.

I don't understand why you refuse, you can even tax it say 5-10% plat on items sold, there is quite literally no good reason there isn't one....put em in relays and stop being silly.

Edited by Naruchico
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If by filtering you mean that there is a search function then yes do it, if you mean filtering as in getting rid of those saying stupid stuff, then no leave it be

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Unpopular opinion, but I completely disagree with Inaros being balanced, as said in the podcast. His death passive needs a massive buff, and his high health pool needs a drawback IMO. Shields are arguably not so useful, so his lack of shields isn't really a bad thing.

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3. What characteristics do you enjoy in Boss Battles?

- no invincibility

- no awkardly hidden weakspots

- no multi-stage

- finishing in less than 2 min with a high damage weapon / ability

 

(buuut I guess I'm kind of alone on that one...   :-/   )

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personally as I have said I believe oberon should stay a jack of all trades, but I think his abilities need some changes I would love to see his hallowed ground center at him as a circular formation that has constant energy drain; has a few buff such as damage, armor, and health drain.

His healing ability would be nice to have a small buff, but more importantly it should be a constant healing that doesn't go away if at full health so if you take damage it would just keep healing. I do however think his scaling should be reversed for this one as it would play into building his other abilities for power strength.

 His 4th could also be another buffer if I'm being wishful so it could have increased chance of energy and health drop from enemies that have been hit and they carry the health conversion and energy conversion mods effects respectively. 

Now for bosses I am a fan of the dark souls hit it till it dies method, but if I had to be specific I'd like bosses that are dangerous yet avoidable. It's far too often that I find myself either needing to just tank it or worry about not getting hit. I guess I am saying that I would like bosses to feel dangerous maybe even take multiple attempts to take down, but if they have their patterns understood they can be avoided and taken down with relative ease. 

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2 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

Unpopular opinion, but I completely disagree with Inaros being balanced, as said in the podcast. His death passive needs a massive buff, and his high health pool needs a drawback IMO. Shields are arguably not so useful, so his lack of shields isn't really a bad thing.

I would agree with his Coffin's drain life needing a buff and shields not being useful in this environment of the game but I don't feel that Inaros needs an additional debuff for not having shields. Within the game environment of enemies scaling differently than player, Inaros's stats make sense and give him the durability to last through another bracket of enemy unlimited scaling. I would agree however that if enemies scaled by the same rules players do, that his durability should likely be decreased but likely not to the extent that you would suggest as shields would likely be more useful, though still less so than life.

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Oberon

In theory 'Jack Of All Trades' (JOAT) frames like Oberon should be useful in most parties, but generally it doesnt quite do enough for me to take it in preference to other frames. The damage isnt enough, the healing isnt enough and the other benefits dont outweigh the downsides.

 

Warframe reworks. Simple enough to say, hard to do.

Fix what (if anything) is broken, improve what isnt. Ideally avoid big changes, improve skill synergies, stay true to the original style of the frame. improve scalability for high level play without low level god mode.

Its an opportunity:

to apply the benefit of hindsight to the frame,

to adjust to changes in the wider game,

to adapt to the way players use the frame, either to accomodate or to steer clear of major play styles.

-

Boss Fights.

No invincibility phase unless there is a clearly defined method for the player to terminate that phase. No stages when all the player can do is run around/wait. There should always be something the player can do to progress the battle, even if its only to move things on to the next phase.

-

Trade.

I play the game to do missions not sit in chat. I dont have time to waste watching a load of scrolling text. Filters wont help me. I dont want trade chat at all. Nor do I want an auction house.

I want a trading post where I can post a trade (using one of my daily trade allowance) and someone can meet my asking price, (using one of their daily trades,) make me an offer or not bother. No automatic adjustment of price, there are too many possible trade options to be limited to a single 'currency'. Keep it basic, keep it simple. Although some kind of filter/search on trades would be useful.

-

Too early to say about the new frame

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I'd be happy if enemy scaling was removed and our damage output was brought up in line.

Make the difficulty be increased not by numbers but by introducing enemy tiers: the higher the tier, the trickier the enemy is to kill. Make mobility's purpose more than just rushing through the map.

Tone down the increase of damage the mods give us so we could discard them in favor of utility mods without making weapons useless. Modding system would be much more interesting and diversed if it served as a mean of expressing our playstyles, not a set of straight must-have upgrades just to make the weapon work.

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3 hours ago, Ksaero said:

I'd be happy if enemy scaling was removed and our damage output was brought up in line.

Make the difficulty be increased not by numbers but by introducing enemy tiers: the higher the tier, the trickier the enemy is to kill. Make mobility's purpose more than just rushing through the map.

Tone down the increase of damage the mods give us so we could discard them in favor of utility mods without making weapons useless. Modding system would be much more interesting and diversed if it served as a mean of expressing our playstyles, not a set of straight must-have upgrades just to make the weapon work.

I can agree that removing enemy scaling would be a needed step before attempting to remove mandatory mods for more conditional or utility mods in the future. Much of our occasional power creep is to make the items more appealing compared to enemies that quickly out-scale our upgrades for life, damage, and ability stats.

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15 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Multi-stage fights

Just to be clear multi-stage fights means a different stage every time.  Fights like Raptor, Kela, and I guess the majority of boss fights we have now, are NOT multi-stage.  They are the same stage repeated over and over.

Doing the same process 5 times just feels like a waste of time, especially if we have to do it 5 times in a row to kill a boss.

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Posted (edited)

We don't need bandaids to trade chat, we need a warframe.market-like system. Not automated trading like an auction house, but something to facilitate players meeting up, WITHOUT making them babysit a chat box in their liset all day to get anywhere, copy/pasting a message every two minutes and hoping somebody happens to see it. It just needs to allow listing for trades (looking to trade item for item, accepting offers etc.) and the problem is solved.

Chat-based trading does not work on its own. Warframe.market still has all the aspects of trade chat, except it's ten times better. It doesn't automate, it just cuts out the chat babysitting.

Also, this "easier trading means less money" that people throw out is not a reason. It is an excuse, and a bad one.

Edited by AdunSaveMe
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Quote

We don't need bandaids to trade chat, we need a warframe.market-like system.

Yes. Look at Warframe.Market and roll that into the game proper. You see what someone is selling, what someone wants. However you must contact the other party to actually make the transaction or otherwise negociate. You cna't just walk off and expect plat to rain down. The biggest downside of Warframe.Market is it's outside of the game and I'm full screen due to being on a toaster box. Roll that into the game, possibly as a revamp of Maroo's Baazar, and it'd be pretty swank.

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On Wed Apr 19 2017 at 7:10 AM, MarrikBroom said:

Yes. Look at Warframe.Market and roll that into the game proper. You see what someone is selling, what someone wants. However you must contact the other party to actually make the transaction or otherwise negociate. You cna't just walk off and expect plat to rain down. The biggest downside of Warframe.Market is it's outside of the game and I'm full screen due to being on a toaster box. Roll that into the game, possibly as a revamp of Maroo's Baazar, and it'd be pretty swank.

No I'd like being able to put things up for sale and buy them on a player based automated market like every mmorpg ever.

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1) Jack-of-all Trades warframes can be good - just look at Equinox - but It has to be unique enough to stand out from other warframes with more concentrated roles.

2) I've always had a certain liking of BrOberon since he was my first warframe build as a new player about 3 years ago. However with time and how enemies have evolved, Oberon has been sort of left behind (same can be said of Hydroid but i won't talk about him now). For most players I've talked to, he primarily lacks damage scaling, falling off pretty quickly as enemies levels increase. As a healer role, Renewal is a very weak ability and hard to mod around without compromising the other abilities' scaling, and even then it's not actually doing anything until it catches up to a player, consuming energy to do... nothing. Renewal would be a kickass ability if it was a toggled regeneration ability for the team, something you can attempt to sustain rather than have to recast all the time. 

3) I kinda like boss battles that involve environmental awareness and strategic attacks. For example, having a uber tanky boss that can be manipulated to enter a magnetic field that makes him more vulnerable, or destroying the environment to cause a certain reaction with the boss. Kela De Thaym fight was pretty well done in my opinion, and is one of the more interesting boss fights to be added.

4) I don't really have an opinion on filtered chats at the moment.

5) I'm excited for "Bobo", the next warframe, probably because he's quite stylish, but i can only form a decent opinion after seeing/using a warframe's abilities. I do hope his abilities are unique and cool/fun to use. I like synergy between abilities but I really like synergy between warframes as well. Any expansion to Warframe's lore is welcome and I look forward to that.

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Jack - of - all - trades (like Equinox and Oberon)  are good 

Filtered Chats not needed

"BOBo"  the 33rd warframe , so excited but what is his passive and his abilities?

 

Boss Fights I love the Multi Stage ones

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As many said, no constant invulnerability faces during boss fights. 

Vay hek  is a bad boss. Small face hit box, flying, random movements and invulnerable most of the time. 

While a boss like leviathan is more interesting with a stage 1 followed by a stage 2 even if it's slightly invulnerable from time to time it's not as frustrating as Vay hek. 

 

The new frame Bobo I haven't even seen yet. 

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