Zenith feedback

[S.Faiz]

Zenith stats even for the secondary seems kind of low. An exclusive weapon available at 500 login days, it should be on levels with other primary weapons if not above them.Its mechanic of seeing through walls  when disc is out sounds good but its not viable enough to take it to high level content.The Zenistar (300 login reward ) is a great melee, it has different melee mechanic and yet high level content viable.Zenith  requires  200 days more yet feels kind of left behind in comparision to other primary weapons.

[Insizer]

And is still haven't gotten the zenistar yet 

[Keltik0ne]

The best thing about this weapon is that it's free. The second best thing is that it's really free.

I mean, it's not as good as a Braton Prime or Vandal, but it beats a Mk 1 or normal Braton. 

[Homer87]

So far, the only thing I don't like about the Zenith is that it changes fire modes from semi-auto to auto on it's own. That breaks the flow of how I am using the weapon at the time. Other than that, it's pretty cool.

[Cray]

Worst part is, it has the same exact damage, crit, and status as the Azima. Only fire rate and magazine size are different, but the core pistol mods give way more than their rifle counterparts, so the Azima ends up doing a lot more damage.

 

So, for an extra 400 days, we can get a second weapon that's effectively a downgrade from the first. Oh boy!

[ashrah]

that wepon should be in class of some or maybe even better 500 dayes is long time....and rewards in general should be much much better

[Tuna4242]

The weapon should have its current gimmicks and be as good as a soma prime.

[Bobtm]

Auto mode has starter-tier stats.  Semi-auto mode has a fire rate of 1 and mediocre stats at best.  Semi-auto mode turns itself off in under half a minute (15 seconds. . . I mean really?).  Can't reliably see through/punch through thick walls in the first place, rendering even its own gimmick as largely irrelevant before its stats do that job.

You're better off using an actual weapon and just going around the corner to shoot an enemy properly than trying to force yourself to use this thing.  Somehow the Zenith manages to be an even bigger disappointment than the Stradavar by performing even worse than it does. 

I definitely don't want powercreep, I hate that sort of thing.  But there is a middle ground between that, and stuff I wouldn't use past maybe Jupiter unless I'm feeling extra cheeky.  The Zenistar is a useful weapon with a fun, unique, and actually viable quirk without being powercreep.  Zenith should take some notes from its axe cousin.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Bobtm
Forgot a line.

[Fallen_Echo]

I havent reached this yet, but it deals good damage, but thats all.

I expected atleast 20% crit along with 25% status chance.

[Gamma745]

3 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

You're better off using an actual weapon and just going around the corner to shoot an enemy properly than trying to force yourself to use this thing.  Somehow the Zenith manages to be an even bigger disappointment than the Stradavar by performing even worse than it does. 

I definitely don't want powercreep, I hate that sort of thing.  But there is a middle ground between that, and stuff I wouldn't use past maybe Jupiter unless I'm feeling extra cheeky.  The Zenistar is a useful weapon with a fun, unique, and actually viable quirk without being powercreep.  Zenith should take some notes from its axe cousin.

Having said that, do you have any suggestion on how much they could buff it? My idea, would be to increase the base damage of Primary fire to slightly above the Karak Wraith (35 base), and give it a status chance of 20%. Too little? or does anybody have a better suggestion?

[Bobtm]

13 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

Having said that, do you have any suggestion on how much they could buff it? My idea, would be to increase the base damage of Primary fire to slightly above the Karak Wraith (35 base), and give it a status chance of 20%. Too little? or does anybody have a better suggestion?

I've been mulling over a few possible thoughts regarding that.  In a way I'd almost say, why not open things up more?  Give it the ability to see through walls as a stock trait in both its primary and secondary firing modes.  Both having the same punch through value as well.  Increase the base fire rate's Status chance to something shockingly high like 90% but leave its damage low where it is now.  Increase the secondary fire's Fire Rate to something more fluid/usable feeling like 5 or 6 so it actually feels like a proper semi-auto instead of having an obtrusive and arbitrary delay between shots.

Last but not least, give its secondary fire/disc unlimited duration as well as giving it some sort of special effect within a modest range around that disc.  The Azima already fires bullets in a radius.  Zenistar releases an elemental shockwave.  So I figure, why not let the Zenistar put up a semi-defensive barrier?  Have it so that allies near the Zenith's disc have a bonus to "Evasion" or in other words;  Reduce enemy accuracy when they are firing at a player near the Zenith's disc.

Changes like this would open up usability on the Zenith, give it a useful quirk, and smooth its usage by a fair margin.  All without needing to powercreep its stats.

[IceColdHawk]

8 hours ago, Keltik0ne said:

The best thing about this weapon is that it's free. The second best thing is that it's really free.

I mean, it's not as good as a Braton Prime or Vandal, but it beats a Mk 1 or normal Braton. 

How exactly is this free? Sure, technically it is. But practically it's not. 500 days of logins. 500 days of staying with warframe, logging in all these days even if you don't want to play. 500 days of waiting or even more if you missed some logins. Of course people can and should expect a somewhat good reward out of it. Wanna know what is practically free? Pretty much most things of the market. Get the bp. Start the manufacturing and wait 12h - 24h. 24h is nothing compared to 500 logins. Sonicor, Pandero, Zhuge. Just to name a few "practically free" guns that are also very late game viable.

Edited April 16, 2017 by IceColdHawk

[Madway7]

My suggestion:

Primary stats

Increase Crit chance to 15 or 20%

Increase Status chance to 15, 20 or 25%

Edit: Add punchthrough to this too since adding a punchthrough mod can make the disc go through the floor it seems. Maybe just 1 or 2m.

Secondary stats

Make it a 5 round Hind like burst rifle and massively buff the fire rate.

Edit: or just leave it as it is and make the fire rate around 5 (Latron levels)

Increase status chance to 15 or 20%

Edit: Rethinking it, if they do the buffs to the primary adding status chance to the secondary may not be necessary? I'm not sure. Since the point of it seems to be shooting at enemies before they get to you I feel like it should have better supporting stats.

Make the disc last 25 or 30 seconds. 

 

Just from what I understand about the weapon so far. (I get it in about 3 more days)

Edited April 18, 2017 by Madway7

[Thundervision]

Yeah, «free» with pre-installed Potato and Slot isn't an excuse for a weapon that requires 500 days (1y 4m). By the time you get it you will be sitting on Forma'd doomsday weapons, so it will be like getting a Lato pistol after getting & Forma-ing Pandero before.

 

And its gimmick mode... it's questionable at best. It's good for Stealth but for a regular gameplay?.. The disc itself does nothing but highlighting enemies behind structures and walls, and it also has a life-time. Let's just think, how many times you will need to kill enemies behind the walls/objects and not the ones that rush toward you or shooting in your face? Sigh...

The weapon's feature would justify its stats if the disc had more utility like:

(Wall-hack)

• x2 Headshot damage
• x2 Status-% to highlighted enemies
• Increased crit-damage dealt by all weapons and allies to enemies in range
• Reduced speed for enemies caught in range
• Detonating the disc would cause a small explosion knockin' the enemies down
• Shooting the disc consumes 10 ammo while an alt.fire consumes 1 ammo per shot, and when deployed it fires an additional projectile with high PT value in the direction you're aiming at. The disc doesn't consume any ammo but is still limited to its life-time.

Any of these.

For example, many WF players have played ME3MP so they know how good and useful the Recon Mine ability is:

Spoiler

For those who didn't play:

Recon Mine: launches a mine that sticks to the first surface it touches and arms after 3 seconds. The mine scans the area for enemies to provide a tactical overlay, and it can be detonated at any time to deal massive damage to nearby targets.

What you can mod it for at its last rank:

• Increase damage to armored targets by 75% or Scanned enemies take 25% more damage from all sources and move 30% more slowly

[-Specktra-]

Weapon needs a buff i know its free but i would expect some more damage from a year and half of consecutive logins weapon reward
maybe boosting Prymary Physical Damage to 30 and secondary to 150?
Primary Status to 15% and secondary to 12%?

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

25 days for me to reach the Zenith. Thanks for the heads-up that it's 3k Mastery Fodder.

A shiny 500-day 3k Mastery Fodder Participation Trophy.

[Tesseract7777]

I won't have it for a long time, and at this rate I won't bother to log in enough days ever to actually get it. I have zero motivation. The gun sounds horrible. I mean, not the worst weapon ever, but for 500 days of login? Yeah, pretty horrible. 

DE made a mistake here, yet again. And with how long they take to move on things, this weapon could see a buff in oh, say... about two years maybe? 

Sometimes I wonder why I still stick with this game at all. 

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I won't have it for a long time, and at this rate I won't bother to log in enough days ever to actually get it. I have zero motivation. The gun sounds horrible. I mean, not the worst weapon ever, but for 500 days of login? Yeah, pretty horrible. 

DE made a mistake here, yet again. And with how long they take to move on things, this weapon could see a buff in oh, say... about two years maybe? 

Sometimes I wonder why I still stick with this game at all. 

They made a mistake by handing you a weapon for doing nothing but logging in once a day for 500 days?

This is a free weapon with a slot and a catalyst. Surprise, they aren't going to hand you an OP weapon for doing literally the bare minimum to do in the game.

[Tesseract7777]

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

They made a mistake by handing you a weapon for doing nothing but logging in once a day for 500 days?

This is a free weapon with a slot and a catalyst. Surprise, they aren't going to hand you an OP weapon for doing literally the bare minimum to do in the game.

There are people that already made the point for me, so I refer you to posts above mine, to explain why logging in for 500 days isn't really "free", by any means. 

Also, yes, they did indeed make a mistake. Your condescending sarcasm aside, my point is as strong as ever. The point of a login reward system is to motivate people to log in regularly by giving them good rewards for it. If the reward for being dedicated for 500 days of logins is garbage/mediocre garbage, etc, then it isn't motivating. It screws with the entire purpose of the system, which is to actually make people want to log in just to get those days added up. 

You seriously just don't get it at all. You are acting like people are entitled, it is that they are disappointed. It is that the expected more for that much dedication. They gave something to the game, they expected something decent back. And they got rewarded with... this. 

If this is DE's idea of a reward for that much dedication, it is indeed a HUGE mistake on their part. This isn't how you keep veterans playing, this isn't how you reward loyal players, this isn't how you avoid attrition. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[peterc3]

2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

There are people that already made the point for me, so I refer you to posts above mine, to explain why logging in for 500 days isn't really "free", by any means. 

Also, yes, they did indeed make a mistake. Your condescending sarcasm aside, my point is as strong as ever. The point of a login reward system is to motivate people to log in regularly by giving them good rewards for it. If the reward for being dedicated for 500 days of logins is garbage/mediocre garbage, etc, then it isn't motivating. It screws with the entire purpose of the system, which is to actually make people want to log in just to get those days added up. 

If this is a mistake, 99% of the weapons in this game are a mistake because they aren't the top weapon. The point of a log in reward is to give people a reason to log in, there's no reason for that reward to be good because 99% of the people logging in won't care, they are being given something for no work besides logging in.

This isn't a BP, you are being given one of the few things unobtainable without plat and all you have to do is log in for 500 days total, you don't even have to make it consecutive these days.

Why not just make all guns do infinite damage and every enemy have 1 HP, then all weapons will not be garbage/mediocre garbage. If you can't wipe out near every enemy presented in this game with any weapon currently in the game including this one, within mere moments of seeing said enemy... the problem lies with you.

[Tesseract7777]

Your slippery slope fallacy is ludicrous. If you aren't going to bother to try to argue seriously I won't seriously entertain you. 

My point has been made, it has not been rebutted in even the slightest. So I will just leave my point as is. No need to respond with a long back and forth of replies if you aren't going to actually rebutt what I said, are going to continue to be condescending, and are going to ignore my points because they are inconvenient. 

The fact of the matter is simple, 500 days is a lot of dedication, and the reward isn't worth it. Good luck convincing anyone but yourself that it is though. Have fun. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[Madway7]

4 hours ago, -Specktra- said:

Weapon needs a buff i know its free but i would expect some more damage from a year and half of consecutive logins weapon reward
maybe boosting Prymary Physical Damage to 30 and secondary to 150?
Primary Status to 15% and secondary to 12%?

Low status is pretty worthless on the secondary with in current fire rate.

It would need at least 20% to get some good procs going.

But even 15% could help the primary.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Madway7

[Bobtm]

After getting a bit more testing time in on this. . . I almost can't honestly call it a gun.  Cardboard weapon replica that fires rubber bands?

Anyways joking aside and it's just not even in a usable state.  There are many walls and sections of maps that are very thin that it fails to punch through entirely in its secondary fire mode.  Walls that, mind you, you can totally see enemies through.  This, in tandem with its excessively low fire rate means that you end up painfully firing shots that will often times just do nothing to an enemy in the first place.

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

If this is a mistake, 99% of the weapons in this game are a mistake because they aren't the top weapon.

That isn't what is being said here.  People just expect it to actually perform at least respectably.  Right now the gun is a novelty and a joke, nothing more.

To partially reiterate a prior point made;  The Zenistar isn't top dawg nor is it a thing that perpetuates power creep.  It is however a weapon with a unique trait that also is reliable enough to be viable to use.  That's not a bad thing to want.  The Zenith in its current state is one-hundred percent completely useless.

[Teloch]

1 hour ago, Bobtm said:

That isn't what is being said here.  People just expect it to actually perform at least respectably.  Right now the gun is a novelty and a joke, nothing more.

To partially reiterate a prior point made;  The Zenistar isn't top dawg nor is it a thing that perpetuates power creep.  It is however a weapon with a unique trait that also is reliable enough to be viable to use.  That's not a bad thing to want.  The Zenith in its current state is one-hundred percent completely useless.

 

 

That ^. Thank you for liberating me from the need to elaborate the point.

Zenith sucks.

How to make is Un-suck?

Boost the base damage to 35-45
Decrease the crit stats to 5% and x1.5
Increase the status chance to 25-30%
Remove the innate silencer
Scrap the alt-fire wallhack and make the gun toss sticking magazine-mines that explode upon enemies approach. Let them deal *0.5 of summary damage of all bullets remaining in the ejected magazine. Allow 2-3 of the mines deployed at the same time. Allow to detonate them manually via primary fire hit and cause chain reaction explosions.

And that's it - your perfect LMG for tactical defense! Combine with Zenistar, Azima, and Frost/Vauban for complete "You shall not pass!" effect.
 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Teloch

[Viscule]

I just don't like the login days. I went on a hiatus before the days were changed or even mentioned of a change and I had a bunch of consecutive days. Which obviously I lost when I went on a hiatus, but I had no idea they changed it to just total. But only from when it got changed. So all the days I played back then didn't mean anything.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Viscule