Zenith feedback

[Myscho]

2 minutes ago, lapali20 said:

neutral @@ why DE why?

All new weapons have Neutral

[Xekrin]

21 minutes ago, Bravely_Casual said:

Hopefully it will have the strongest riven disposition

2 minutes ago, lapali20 said:

neutral @@ why DE why?

New weapons are neutral because they do not yet have stats on whether its used a lot or not.  Remember, the riven disposition system is manually edited, not a dynamically evolving system based on weapon stats (as it really should be).

 

[lapali20]

Just now, Myscho said:

All new weapons have Neutral

oh didnt know that well still its should be strong tho

[Myscho]

Just now, lapali20 said:

oh didnt know that well still its should be strong tho

Will be, in time, but even strong disp wont save the weapon

[Askell91]

3 minutes ago, lapali20 said:

oh didnt know that well still its should be strong tho

It should be Super Saiyan God not strong...

[THeMooN85]

1 hour ago, Askell91 said:

For those who were willing to read this wall of text thing. Thanks!

And I thank you for the feedback, now I know I don't have to bother... 9 days left to claim Zenistar

[DaftMeat]

 

For a free weapon that comes with a catalyst and a unique gimmick, I kind of like the weapon. It's not powerful but it's fun and innovative, and fulfils a nice niche between Spray-and-Pray and Tactical Shooting. However, I still think that the alt fire could use some tweaking:

1. Timer - Please add a HUD timer showing how long we have the X-ray disc active for. I've messed up a lot of shots since I can't always be sure when the firing mode will switch if I'm not actively counting it down. We have a timer for Zenistar that is very useful, and I would mind having one for Azima's alt-fire too. OR...
2. Alt Fire Toggle - Consider making the disc a toggle, perhaps? With the limitation being that the disc is already stationary, you're sacrificing firing speed and movement speed for accuracy and power. To balance this, I wouldn't mind if the alt-fire ammo cost is increased as well as (having single shots take more than 5 rounds per shot).
3. Disc Stealth - Even when using Hush or Hushed Invisibility some enemies seem to still notice the disc being fired, and it will definitely alert them if it passes into their field of vision. As such, trying to strategically place the disc can be a little tricky. Personally, I'm hoping at the least the "bounce" can be removed and it will simply stick in pace when meeting an object as well as hovering in place in the air.
4. X-Ray & Punchthrough limits - I've seen this noted on the forums and on the wiki, but I've still seen some limitations myself. While it seems to be unlimited through most walls, it doesn't apply to all objects and definitely not all floors, ceilings, and doors. There have been a few occasions where on multi-tiered rooms, I can see an enemy above with with the disc out, but the rifle shots will not go through the ceiling/floor to kill them. I've also noticed that on some broken/half-open doors in certain tile-sets as well you can see an enemy through cracked doors, but even through a disc is out enemies are not highlited behind some of these.

 

That being said, it's an interesting design and neat mechanic. I'm happy to see more weapons that aren't just Mastery Fodder or more Meta Power Creep guns. Thanks for the free gun!

Edited April 19, 2017 by DaftMeat
Clemmunity

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

I agree with these changes, it is also nice to see a post not just calling the gun garbage.

[Askell91]

40 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

I agree with these changes, it is also nice to see a post not just calling the gun garbage.

The stats are garbage not the weapon.

[Askell91]

2 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

And I thank you for the feedback, now I know I don't have to bother... 9 days left to claim Zenistar

It's a good wep if you don't like melee that much like I do.

[THeMooN85]

Just now, Askell91 said:

It's a good wep if you don't like melee that much like I do.

But I LOVE Melee in this game

[Askell91]

19 minutes ago, THeMooN85 said:

But I LOVE Melee in this game

>_>

[Azamagon]

While I don't mind DE for at least trying to avoid powercreep, the Zenith's stats were far too "safe".

Now before I start complaining, I really like its looks, its gimmicks and its quick reload. But really, the remaining stats are really pitiful.

Primary fire is pretty much just a slightly better Braton. A regular Braton. That means 20 damage, with a bit better crit and status stats. That's really, REALLY subpar for something that takes, at best, 1 year and 4 months to get...

Now onto the Secondary fire (not the disc-launch, the semi-auto firing). It's good in damage (120, which is 6 ammo's worth of damage, and with much better crit but also slightly worse status). But it costs 5 ammo (making it just ever so slightly more costefficient than primary). And it is slow. Like, much-slower-than-SNIPERS kind of slow. This is pretty much like the Panthera's old primary fire, but much, MUCH worse.

These incredibly subpar stats are definitely NOT compensated for in its gimmicks: Practically unlimited punchthrough and launching the disc gives wallhack in an AoE (along with toggling firing modes). The punchthrough sounds like a very powerful boon, but it's still as situational as it is on any other weapon modded with punchthrough, really.

Onto the disclaunching itself: It really doesn't need to bounce, that just makes it annoying to use, really. Also, the duration is very short AND there is no indicator that it is out.

In short; it needs buffs.

That said, I'd like to give some suggestions:

If going for conservative changes:

 

Primary fire:
* Damage from 20 to 30
* Status from 10% to 12%

Secondary fire:
* Ammocost from 5 to 3
* Damage from 120 to 100
* Rate of fire from 1 to 3,5 (and get rid of the firing "lag", which afaik doesn't exist on other semiauto weapons like the Latrons, but exists on this and semi-Stradavar)
--or--
* Ammocost still at 5
* Damage from 120 to 150
* Rate of fire from 1 to 2 (and get rid of the firing "lag", which afaik doesn't exist on other semiauto weapons like the Latrons, but exists on this and semi-Stradavar)

Disc stats:
* Make the disc "sticky", i.e. attaching to a surface instantly, rather than bouncing around first
* Duration from ~15 seconds to 30 seconds, or even infinite really (so you can use it as a toggle mode)
* Display its duration in the UI (like on Zenistar)

If going for more radical changes:

 

Primary fire:
* ALWAYS semi-auto (we don't have many pure semi-autos, plus this would mean the other login weapons are more complimentary, rather than competitive, with one another)
* Damage 80
* Crit 40% | 2x (thus also getting the gimmick of guaranteed crits with just Point Strike, fitting for its stealth-friendly gimmick)
* Status 10%
* Mag anywhere from 12 to 18
* RoF 3 (in the bufferable semi-auto way, not the laggy kind)
* Ammo reserves 270
* Other stats unchanged

Secondary fire:
* Launches the disc, granting wallhack in an AoE (no effect on firing modes)
* Make the disc "sticky", i.e. attaching to a surface instantly, rather than bouncing around first
* Lasts 30 seconds (15 seconds could still be okay in this version, as it doesn't affect your shooting modes anymore)
* Display its duration in the in the UI

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Azamagon

[RAVEN76]

Hi Just Got My 500 Day Weapon And It Not Good The Range On The Star Is So Small and the Damage Is Not Working

And The Star Is So Small You Can Not See it Wean i Got The Weapon I Was Hopeing I Was It Was Going To Bee Like

A Mix Of The Azima And The Zenistar For The Zenith But I is More Bigger  Azima Than Zenistar 

[Askell91]

[-N7-Leonhart]

Isn't the secondary a wall-hack function with a switch to semi-auto fire with infinite punch through?

[Urlan]

Makes sense, I could see the weapon getting buffs to justify its place since as is, while nice enough as a trophy, isn't really a weapon that one would use after playing for that much time.

[LuckyCharm]

Just wait.. they'll release rivens for it and you'll have to roll +325% for it to be useful. 

[DaftMeat]

6 hours ago, Askell91 said:

The stats are garbage not the weapon.

As an auto rifle it's 20 base damage with heavy slash, and 10% crit and 10% status. That puts it around midway between Grakata and Karak Wraith and still fairly crit viable. It may not be top-tier, but it's not garbage.

As a semi-auto rifle it's 120 base with heavy puncture, 22% crit and 8% status. It's on par with the Grinlok, Stradavar, and Dex Sybaris. Not great, but not bottom of the barrel either.

[LuckyCharm]

Does it at least make a decent sound? Like the stradavars sounds?

[Madway7]

2 hours ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Isn't the secondary a wall-hack function with a switch to semi-auto fire with infinite punch through?

Yes, with sniper like stats, only with a lower fire rate and lower damage than most (if not all) snipers. 

It does have a faster reload speed than most snipers though.

My impression based on its stats and functionality, is thing needs a buff. Namely a crit chance and status increase to the primary fire (buff both to 15%, maybe more on status)

And the secondary fire rate should be around 5.and status chance doubled (to 16%).

And disc duration increased to 25 - 30 seconds and be make it invulnerable, because apparently it takes damage.

Also yeah after deciphering OP's text. It should have a higher range on the XRay.

(I don't personally have it yet, I get it tomorrow)

Edited April 19, 2017 by Madway7

[Dr.Evergreen]

My humble sugguestion :

Normal shot - give 25% proc and 0.5m innate punch through.

Alt-fire - 25% crit, 15% proc, 2.50 firerate, 3 ammo per shot.

And make alt-fire mode limitless, or at least put a timer feature in UI.

(personally I wonder why DE make it 22% crit, 8% proc...???)

 

I love the apperance and unique radar system, but hate its poor stat.

There are tons of 'more practical' guns in my arsenal.

so what's the point of, giving a mediocre gun as a reward?

I can say Zenith rifle is a tribute for loyal Warframe lovers.

No weapon takes 500 days to make. you can't put a price on dat time!

Don't want it to be a cheat gun but Zenith really deserves to get a buff I think.

[Weidro]

i like the zenith the way it is
its a nice gun with an interesting mechanic
its better than mastery fodder (if if i only need 6 more till mr24...)

buffing it a lot would result in lots of complains from newer players

and i don't think about it as a weapon that takes 500 days to make
to me its more like a "oh hey you are still here?! awesome take this, now you can show others your dedication, hope you like it"

[Dr.Evergreen]

 

53 minutes ago, Weidro said:

i like the zenith the way it is
its a nice gun with an interesting mechanic
its better than mastery fodder (if if i only need 6 more till mr24...)

buffing it a lot would result in lots of complains from newer players

and i don't think about it as a weapon that takes 500 days to make
to me its more like a "oh hey you are still here?! awesome take this, now you can show others your dedication, hope you like it"

 

Sorry but I really don't understand...

This is not a time-limited event weapon. anyone who play 500 days will get a Zenith.

Are there any reasons for newer players go mad? it's nothing but an excuse I think.

And sure it is slightly better than some mere mastery fodders, even 'as a free gun'.

but I don't think Zenith as a free extra.

It can be a motivation for play Warframe, and the basic concept of login rewards are the motivations thing, right?

It's not a guilty in a game that giving a prominent gun to loyal users.

[-N7-Leonhart]

7 hours ago, Madway7 said:

Yes, with sniper like stats, only with a lower fire rate and lower damage than most (if not all) snipers. 

It does have a faster reload speed than most snipers though.

My impression based on its stats and functionality, is thing needs a buff. Namely a crit chance and status increase to the primary fire (buff both to 15%, maybe more on status)

And the secondary fire rate should be around 5.and status chance doubled (to 16%).

And disc duration increased to 25 - 30 seconds and be make it invulnerable, because apparently it takes damage.

Also yeah after deciphering OP's text. It should have a higher range on the XRay.

(I don't personally have it yet, I get it tomorrow)

I can imagine quite a bit of scenarios where I can use it to great effect, even as it is now. For example, staying permanently behind cover and safety and killing everything around through walls. I cannot guarantee that if it's even better than this it won't get too OP.