Silence Duration Buff

[Oranji]

Buffed Silence's base Duration to 10/15/20/30 (20% at max rank) which now matches Sonar so you can cast them in tandem.

May I ask why?
I seriously hope the duration wasn't increased just so that it can be used the same time with Sonar.
(With all due respect I think that's pretty stupid)
Silence is like- 1 of 2 pseudo-survival skills that Banshee has along with Sonic Boom.
By buffing the duration, you increased the time it takes to recast Silence for that life saving stun effect. 
Now I obviously am not speaking on behalf of all Banshee users but I don't think anyone uses that for the "silence" effect. (it's redundant due to her passive)

I therefore ask that we consider any of these 4 options:
a. Increase the stun duration as well to compensate.
b. Make it recastable
c. Just revert the changes. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
d. Rework.

Thanks to all awesome DE devs.


 

Edited April 21, 2017 by Oranji

[(PSN)jFresh215]

Or just make it release a stun pulse that doesn't travel insanely fast(somewhere between polarize and M Prime) every 3-5 seconds. This would also make savage silence more viable and provide some semi-reliable survivability. 

 

[RunningTree3]

12 minutes ago, Oranji said:

Buffed Silence's base Duration to 10/15/20/30 (20% at max rank) which now matches Sonar so you can cast them in tandem.

May I ask why?
I seriously hope the duration wasn't increased just so that it can be used the same time with Sonar.
(With all due respect I think that's pretty stupid)
Silence is like- 1 of 2 pseudo-survival skills that Banshee has along with Sonic Boom.
By buffing the duration, you increased the time it takes to recast Silence for that life saving stun effect. 
Now I obviously am not speaking on behalf of all Banshee users but I don't think anyone uses that for the "silence" effect. (it's redundant due to her passive)

I therefore ask that we consider any of these 3 options:
a. Increase the stun duration as well to compensate.
b. Make it recastable
c. Just revert the changes. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Thanks.


 

*puts hand up* I use it for the silence effect. Her passive only affects her own weapons at the point of firing. Apart from dampening enemy fire, Silence also mutes an enemy's ability to detect the direction from which they were shot at (sometimes the mob will even register the damage as 'environmental' and carry on un-alerted). Overall the ability has utility in de-escalating an encounter.

That said, making it re-castable should satisfy those who use Silence primarily for its stun effect.

[LunarEdge7]

I find re-casting it over for its stun effect silly, considering all the anti-aggro and damage buffing she already gives. She's already a great support frame with her kit, I don't think I want her to be able to stun more than a CC-frame can.

[YUNoJump]

Honestly I feel like Silence just needs a full rework or even a replacement, it's become hideously outdated as a stealth tool (nobody does stealth by having one person buff the whole team, not now that there are 3 Warframes with full invis) and silent weapons/silencer mods are easy to use, along with easy melee instakill finishers.

Silence's main use now is the weird-to-use-properly stun, and building for that involves stuff that really doesn't seem to fit with the actual ability (they've just buffed duration but a popular idea was a negative duration, short range build).

With Banshee having no real damage protection or CC that leaves her able to actually fight (soundquake is only CC if you don't want to move, sonic boom is just a short range knockdown), Silence should really just be made into a pure CC radial ability of some sort.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

Er...wasn't it due to the bug? The one that made Silence last longer than intended based on framerate?

I dunno, it seemed kinda obvious to me...

[taiiat]

 

8 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I don't think I want her to be able to stun more than a CC-frame can.

uhhh... Banshee is fundamentally a Support & CC Warframe.
the Damage Multiplier from Sonar is the only thing that is offensively related about Banshee. Resonating Quake is AFKFarming, and within working Level Ranges is still just CC.

[Oranji]

35 minutes ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Er...wasn't it due to the bug? The one that made Silence last longer than intended based on framerate?

I dunno, it seemed kinda obvious to me...

[AuroraSonicBoom]

This change suggests that DE doesn't want players to powercast Silence for the initial stun and wants us to move around if we want continued use of the CC aspect. Making it recastable would straight up negate that change, and also allow players to permastun a huge area without any major drawback, which is something to be avoided, least we create another blind Mirage. The improvement to enemy awareness a while ago actually made Silence more powerful, even though the duration of the awareness delaying effect can't be modified by power strength. What Silence needs is a small additional, thematically consistent debuff that can be used in general run&gun gameplay, such as making enemies highly vulnerable to blast and impact procs(chance scaling with pwr) and increasing the time for knocked down/staggered mobs to recover due to Silence messing with their sense of balance. Given how Quake deals blast damage as well and Sonic Boom is an easy source of knockdowns, those abilities would then even synergize.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I can understand DE not wanting Min Duration, Max Range Silence Spam to be possible (used to be 3sec stun with 3.12sec duration)

 

But the issue I have is with the Augment: Savage Silence

The way the Augment works and the changes they have made to Nullifiers makes Savage Silence unappealing.

✓Savage Silence with base Range and the actual finisher part only lasting the initial 3sec stun, does not give Banshee enough time to perform a Finisher and clear the 20m radius before other enemies re-engage

✓Before Nullifiers whom are immune to Sonar, would still have their Giant Bubbles visually letting you know there were enemies on the other side of the wall, with no Sonar Weakpoints and definitely not stunned by Silence.

 

 

I think either a Fixed inner Radius stun that lasts the full duration of Augmented Savage Silence (like fixed 5m inner Savage Silence Aura)

Or

Letting Sonic Boom function as a silence stun refresh if used on enemies within Silence Aura

 

Either of these changes, would allow Savage Silence to be fully functional with the current large radius and now longer base duration.

 

-My opinion

[RunningTree3]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

✓Savage Silence with base Range and the actual finisher part only lasting the initial 3sec stun, does not give Banshee enough time to perform a Finisher and clear the 20m radius before other enemies re-engage

*puts hand up* Again offering my perspective from a different Banshee play-style (someone who does not use Silence for its stun). Savage Silence may seem useless if one relies solely on the stun from Silence to open finishers. But any other method that opens to finishers will also grant the bonus: -- for ground finishers: slam knockdowns, blast procs, Sonic Boom itself; plus stance combos that perform finishers, or just a stealth finisher.

I suppose YMMV, but I find Banshee does very well to setup and maintain a 'silent' fight, and then dominate that situation.

[painterman]

I onestly like the new duration, you should almost always have silence up, its a nice stun and it can work with savage silence(mostly reducing range), or use as a "buble" stun(again, reduced range and increase duration, make enemys or youself walk in and out of range) or use like me: a nice range stun that gives a bit of time to aim and stop incoming chargers. Recasteable would also be really nice, but i think it should be buffed or even reworked(dont ask me sugestions, dont have any), the most prominent buff it could use is its stun duration, mainly for savage silence builds, as the duration is to short and the animation on finishers too long.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

5 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:

*puts hand up* Again offering my perspective from a different Banshee play-style (someone who does not use Silence for its stun). Savage Silence may seem useless if one relies solely on the stun from Silence to open finishers. But any other method that opens to finishers will also grant the bonus: -- for ground finishers: slam knockdowns, blast procs, Sonic Boom itself; plus stance combos that perform finishers, or just a stealth finisher.

I suppose YMMV, but I find Banshee does very well to setup and maintain a 'silent' fight, and then dominate that situation.

Normal Silence will provide the Stealth Melee Multiplier bonus for enemies recovering from Knockdowns, just lacks the bonus to finisher attacks

However, on PS4 performing ground Finishers with or without Savage Silence Augments often results in normal White numbers while Silence is active.

For those wanting to use Savage Silence for the Stealth Multiplier during the stun, the attacks need to be during the 3sec stun when they are Primed for Finishers.

Or you need to be invisible, but even then normal Silence will allow all Melee DoTs to benefit from Stealth Melee Multiplier as you are 'breaking Enemy purview' (Regular Silence + Naramon Shadowstep grants Stealth Melee Multiplier to all Melee DoTs without Single Target Finisher prompts)

 

In Contrast to the other Augment that boosts Finisher damage, Radiant Finish; which has the bonus applied to the stun which lasts the full ability duration.

 

I think a fixed inner radius or always allowing Sonic Boom to refresh the Silence Stun, would allow Savage Silence to function more consistently like Radiant Finish.

 

 

 

Also, if I jump attack Knockdown an Osprey: I am not seeing the Savage Silence bonus on the performed ground Finisher.

•I assume this is because Osprey are immune to normal Silence 

 

Edit: To be clear, I am looking forward to the Silence Duration buff as it greatly assists my normal Banshee build.

 

Only my CC cheese build gets hurt, which is fine as it was Min duration and did not allow for Sonic Fracture, nor Sonar(Resonance) to be useful.

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Tesseract7777]

Yeah when I saw the change, I thought "this is going to hurt people who do min-duration silence builds for survivability". And to be honest, I don't really see who it helps? Those who focus more on Sonar I don't think were really asking for a longer duration on silence... I'm not really sure how it would benefit them that much. 

Also the passive being redundant is a good point... and this change highlights it further. I think her passive could be okay, but only if Silence could be tweaked to be a little more of a cc ability, recastable would certainly be a good start, that would take very little effort on DE's part and wouldn't require any real changes. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[TaylorsContraction]

12 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:

*puts hand up* I use it for the silence effect. Her passive only affects her own weapons at the point of firing. Apart from dampening enemy fire, Silence also mutes an enemy's ability to detect the direction from which they were shot at (sometimes the mob will even register the damage as 'environmental' and carry on un-alerted). Overall the ability has utility in de-escalating an encounter.

That said, making it re-castable should satisfy those who use Silence primarily for its stun effect.

Same here, though an increase in duration wasn't particularly warranted. Not sure why they bothered with this since sonar is recastable thus they are always cast out of sync anyway. 

9 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

...Also the passive being redundant is a good point... 

Her passive isn't redundant, it's a good alternative to stealth-play where you don't use invisibility but instead limit enemy awareness.

Edited April 20, 2017 by TaylorsContraction

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

Same here, though an increase in duration wasn't particularly warranted. Not sure why they bothered with this since sonar is recastable thus they are always cast out of sync anyway. 

Her passive isn't redundant, it's a good alternative to stealth-play where you don't use invisibility but instead limit enemy awareness.

But it's giving you an almost similar effect to what Silence is doing for your weapons, perhaps almost more effectively even, no?

My point is that there is a lot of overlap there. It feels like one of the abilities could do a little more to make up for that overlap. 

[TaylorsContraction]

5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

But it's giving you an almost similar effect to what Silence is doing for your weapons, perhaps almost more effectively even, no?

My point is that there is a lot of overlap there. It feels like one of the abilities could do a little more to make up for that overlap. 

No it's not similar at all and it's not only giving it to you, it's giving it to all your teammates. Silenced weapons just silence weapons, thus any instant 1 hit kills with them don't alert enemies. I run sorties solo very often with Banshee and occasionally an enemy doesn't die in one hit from my weapon. They're suddenly alerted and might even fire back at me. But doing so does not alert any of the other enemies. When I kill that alerted enemy, the alarm status hasn't gone up and my stealth is still in effect because SILENCE. I realize you may not play in the same way I do, but her passive does not make her abilities redundant, it enhances her gameplay.

The same applies when you're with teammates, assuming they aren't rushing off to be a hallway hero.

EDIT: As to your remark about overlap. Again no, because generally my weapons have a much longer range than my silence range. Killing an enemy outside of silence range with a non-silenced weapon used to alert the whole map, making silence kind of pointless. That was rectified by giving Banshee an awesome passive.

Edited April 20, 2017 by TaylorsContraction

[Tesseract7777]

I get what you are saying, that Silence ensures the enemies will also be silent as well, if they start fighting back, and it keeps your allies silent. Those are good points. 

[FireSegment]

12 hours ago, Oranji said:

Just revert the changes. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

it was broke, the reason it change is because it affected by framerate. They basically didn't change anything in the design, only change the mechanic to make it consistence across different frame rate.

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by FireSegment

[Oranji]

1 hour ago, FireSegment said:

it was broke, the reason it change is because it affected by framerate. They basically didn't change anything in the design, only change the mechanic to make it consistence across different frame rate.

 

I uh....
Not sure if you took a few seconds to read the patch notes.
This:

• Fixed a bug that would cause Banshee's Silence to last longer depending on your frame-rate (approximately 5% longer at 60 FPS, 30% longer at 30 FPS).

And this:

• Buffed Silence's base Duration to 10/15/20/30 (20% at max rank) which now matches Sonar so you can cast them in tandem.

Are 2 different things.
Srsly wat?

[FireSegment]

err .... this part:

6 hours ago, Oranji said:

Fixed a bug that would cause Banshee's Silence to last longer depending on your frame-rate (approximately 5% longer at 60 FPS, 30% longer at 30 FPS).

say that why it is broke (by broke i mean bugged, if that clear up things), because it's not completely depend on skill duration, and diffrent performance (in other word, the stronger your computer is, the .... less actual duration u have). Sound like a bug to me, and this:

6 hours ago, Oranji said:

Buffed Silence's base Duration to 10/15/20/30 (20% at max rank) which now matches Sonar so you can cast them in tandem.

simply get the the 20% increase from 5% at 60fps and 30% at 30fps and make some sort of average. The bug making the duration of the skill longer than it should,, fixing the bug decrease it. Which is why they add the buff to compensate and keep the skill in-game duration almost the same, but with consistence across all fps

Seriously, u gain nothing from wanting to make the change reverted, only one bug back. And i dont think u mean to make framerate different duration being a 'feature' for banshee, in the case that you trolling then i have nothing else to say

[DrBorris]

a: My preferred as it keeps all current builds of Banshee viable and "fixes" on of Banshee's very few flaws.

b: It would honestly be pretty OP for Banshee to be able to stun lock a room while making all enemies vulnerable to finishers.

c: Silence needs something to make it feel less... wonky.

 

Oh, and for the love of RNGesus make Sonic Boom a one-handed cast.

 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

23 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

No it's not similar at all and it's not only giving it to you, it's giving it to all your teammates. Silenced weapons just silence weapons, thus any instant 1 hit kills with them don't alert enemies. I run sorties solo very often with Banshee and occasionally an enemy doesn't die in one hit from my weapon. They're suddenly alerted and might even fire back at me. But doing so does not alert any of the other enemies. When I kill that alerted enemy, the alarm status hasn't gone up and my stealth is still in effect because SILENCE. I realize you may not play in the same way I do, but her passive does not make her abilities redundant, it enhances her gameplay.

The same applies when you're with teammates, assuming they aren't rushing off to be a hallway hero.

EDIT: As to your remark about overlap. Again no, because generally my weapons have a much longer range than my silence range. Killing an enemy outside of silence range with a non-silenced weapon used to alert the whole map, making silence kind of pointless. That was rectified by giving Banshee an awesome passive.

Enemies outside of Silence Aura on PS4 still hear that Enemy gun fired inside Silence Aura.

Silence is deafening the enemies in the Aura rather than silencing all weapons/noises in the area.

So enemies still get alerted if an enemy inside Silence still fired a Weapon.

Great Sortie Example is Sensor Regulator Eximus Units (especially when they have spawned outside of a Spy Vault)

It falls into the Enemy producing a sound that has a larger radius than Banshee's silence Aura, thus enemies outside the Aura still hear Gunfire fired inside the Aura.

 

Simplified: If an enemy fires a gun while inside Silence Aura, it still alerts enemies outside of Silence Aura radius.

(Deafening enemies inside the Aura rather than actually silencing the area)

 

Edit: Easiest way to test Silence only deafening the area rather than Silencing the Area, running a Narrow-Minded build. The alerted enemy shooting is in the small Silence Aura, but you can visually see enemies reacting to the that Single Enemy firing his weapon. (Thus not silencing that single enemy's gun fire)

Edited April 21, 2017 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Pizzarugi]

I'm a "fire and forget" kinda guy. I play Banshee purely for Savage Silence augment. Equip naramon focus, get a long range melee weapon like secura lecta and mod for max power strength with high range and literally everything in front of me dies in one swing.

I appreciate the buff to silence's duration, because that means I spend less time having to recast it and more time mashing the melee button.