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A deep dive: The Glaive Prime Buffs.

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On 4/20/2017 at 9:44 PM, CY13ERPUNK said:

definitely glad that the buffs finally went live ; sadly i have to admit that i never noticed ingame as i have abandoned all honor and forsaken my glaive ever since i got the bullet dance stance and have been traveling down the dark path of the redeemer [this is coming from someone who has spent the better part of the last 3 years using the glaive as my sole weapon, ie no primary/2ndary]

long story short, bullet dance allows the gunblades to be functionally better than the glaive-type melee in virtually all respects =/

and while the buffs to the glaiveP specifically are nice and bring it more in-line with its other prime brethren, they still do little to address the overall problems with the glaives vs the other melee options

what makes both the gunblades and the glaives special? they can both hit enemies further out of tradition melee ranges [orthosP with primed reach aside]

but while the gunblades can blast enemies from afar and swipe enemies in melee in the same combo or a few quick charge shots and some slashes... the glaive weapons can rly only do one thing or the other, up close they can deal a flurry of quick hits and some combos provide some ok radial AoE coverage for swings/swipes that hit more than one enemy ; but once thrown you are effectively helpless until the glaive returns...

the above situation is made worse by the glaives almost requiring 2-3 slots dedicated to some very significant QoL mods to allow them to function at an even bare-minimum lvl, things like whirlwind and quick return and power throw ; since you are helpless while the glaive is in flight, you want it to fly as fast as possible, a slow glaive is just more time you are helplessly alone, quick return reduces the pointless bounces that never hit anything to again get the glaive back into your hand asap, and of course power throw, so that you can have some form of punchthrough to be able to hit anything in a crowd or around obnoxious terrain geometry

the gunblades have none of the above problems and can donate all 8 slots to dmg/spd and thusly can deal significantly more solid dmg output overall 

we all know that power throw allows the glaives to 'auto-explode' on the last bounce before they return, and thusly the power throw/quick return is a popular mod setup becuz it allows the glaive to be a poor man's AoE weapon, but IMHO this has always been a bad design choice and kind of a dead-end, really where do you go from here? and now that it's a infinite ammo rocket launcher, no one wants to buff it becuz it could get out of hand fairly quickly [multipliers and whatnot] 

IMHO the 'auto-explode' feature should be removed and instead the glaives should ONLY explode when detonated manually while the melee is readied and channeled [IMHO the glaives rely too much on the explosion and thusly i think the explosion AoE dmg should be 50% less than it currently is, and the WF should either take no self-harm dmg from it, or at least 50-75% reduced dmg from it, and direct hits from a thrown glaive should deal 2-3x what they currently do, as it is incredibly silly that i deal MORE dmg to a group or individual enemy by hitting the ground in front of them than hitting and punching through them directly]

additionally, all of the glaive QoL mods should become dual-stat mods and give some other benefit besides their base stats : ie {just examples off the top of my head atm}

power throw - punchthough AND crit dmg

whirlwind - flight spd AND melee reach/range/radial AoE effect [ie the functional size of the glaive hitbox in the air for dmg calculations but NOT for collision]

quick return - less bounces AND atk spd

rebound - more bounces AND homing AND dmg multiplier per additional ricochets [everyone knows that rebound is the bastard step-child of the glaive QoL mods, no sane person uses it becuz the longer a glaive bounces, the long you are helpless, the bounces never hit anything, and the more bounces = more chances for the glaive to get stuck somewhere and glitch out ; so my goal here is to have rebound give the bounces far more of a homing/seeking effect to actually ricochet towards/between nearby enemy units and multiply its dmg for each unit hit, hopefully making this a viable mod alternative in the future]

lastly i know this is pie-in-the-sky dreaming, but it would be lovely if we could have the unarmed animations as available melee while a glaive is in flight, just to be able to block/kick/etc would be a tenno-mas miracle

lastly v2 could we PLZ NOT have certainly units 'immune' to punchthrough by the glaive? why can the glaive not punchthrough certain units? why can it punchthrough a shield grineers shield but then does no dmg to the unit behind the shield? whats the deal with the corpus helmets and proxys? i can punch through most grineer and their hardened armor just fine... these kind of inconsistencies and discrepancies have always plagued the glaives, and any combination or mix of attention to the above issues would go a long way towards making these shining creative gems really feel at home in WF, instead of being the shoehorned in and forgotten relics that they are atm


On 4/22/2017 at 11:49 PM, taiiat said:

after much more deliberation...
so, Glaive Prime has it close, but there's a global improvement that Thrown Melee would exceptionally benefit from.

all Thrown Melee should have high Crit Chance on the Throw - which therefore allows for exceptional reward for precision, which will help in the usability vs higher Level Enemies department.
presumably Cerata will have the highest Throw Crit Chance as the Crit option, and that's fine. they just all need to have a relevant Crit Chance.


so with that in mind, what seems appropriate:

  • Glaive: 35%
    • Glaive Prime: 45%
  • Kestrel: 25%
  • Halikar: 25%
  • Cerata: 60%

these numbers sound incredibly high for Melee Weapons, but it's worth noting that in regards to the Throws - True Steel is the only way to increase that Crit Chance, they are completely unaffected by Hit Counter bonuses, and this is the equivalent to Charge Attacks from other Melee Weapons.

with a solid Crit Chance on Throw, Glaive Prime would be at a perfect place.
the others would follow suit to a much better place, with varying results appropriate to their themes.

if their Crit Damage is a concern, feel free to increase them all to 1.75x, to leave Cerata with a Crit Damage advantage. alternatively i suppose, the Crit Damage of all Thrown Melee could be increased 0.25-0.5x from current.


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On 20/4/2017 at 9:44 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

T'was the week before Christmas, and the Tenno surely knew, that an Update was coming... and a buff for a weapon they threw!?

Join me as I walk through the buff that never was for the Glaive Prime.

In the last major Update of 2016, Update 19.5, the notes included these details:

  • Buffed base damage from 35 to 45.
  • Increased Proc Chance from 10% to 20%.
  • Added forced knockdown and bleed Status Chance.

They were quickly redacted, and for months Tenno were left wondering 'where are they'!?

In the first major Update of 2017, Update 20, the notes did not include these details:

  • Buffed base damage from 35 to 45.
  • Increased Proc Chance from 10% to 20%.
  • Added forced knockdown and bleed Status Chance.

But they should have: these buffs have been live since Update 20: Octavia's Anthem and they are currently live on all platforms!

Maybe you've been loyal enough to your Glaive Prime to know that - maybe you're wondering why they weren't included.

To dive into the history of this seemingly complicated situation, we must first look at Devstream #90:

For months we've been secretly working away on Multi-wielding (this may have a cooler marketing name closer to release, but that's what I'm calling it for now) which we showed off last week in the above Devstream. The work initially started with the Glaive + a single Secondary. In Update 19.5, the Glaive Buffs did not go live because we were saving them for the release of this multi-wielding. In Update 20, the Glaive Buffs did go live because we successfully compartmentalized the longer-than-expected work being done that was cannibalizing all things "Glaive" changes which pushed out the original change without us noticing. The original change was made outside the content window we were monitoring (Post-Glast Gambit up until the minute of release).  

So for now you've had the buffs for the Glaive Prime and may not have known it, and next you'll have the new wielding type which will include another significant review of eligible weapon types!


I got a bit of a question/request. Considering how some of us used some weapons to craft their Ak version (i.e. Lex Prime to Aklex Prime), would it be possible so that a 'halved' (so to speak) version of an 'Ak' secondary be used with the melee? To phrase it simpler, if I have my Aklex Prime and Broken War, would it be possible to 'multi-wield' one half of the Aklex Prime (i.e. by reducing clip size and fire rates to half) with my Broken War? It would of make sense, considering that Aklex is a pair of Lex, but I don't know how you've encoded everything so I feel the need to ask.

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