Oberon WIP Rework: Showcased on Primetime #161

[(PSN)lilkevin107]

So how do you guys feel about the new WIP rework? In my opinion, I think it's pretty good. 

Smite: now scales with enemy level :) that's pretty much it, it also received a minor visual change. 

Hallowed Ground: now radiates each enemy that steps on it, it still clears status effects, and its finally not rectangular shaped, its now a wide circular area, also received a major visual change

Renewal: now I don't know how I feel about this one :/ it now works like Molecular Prime and Polarize. This synergizes with Hallowed Ground, when you cast Hallowed Ground, allies get a flat armor bonus for the duration of the heal. But the sad thing about is that energy still stops when allies reach full health.

Reckoning: Enemies that are radiated, receive more damage from this ability,  synergizes with Hallowed Ground. The enemies that are standing on Hallowed Ground during Reckoning receive armor debuffs that scale with levels and strength. 

Proposed Passive: Allied pets get cooldown reductions on their abilities and attacks. You also get a free revive for them. This passive is meh, It's better than the one we have now. 

[Kierlak]

Smite was one of the better first abilities before, it's still ok with this change.

 

Hallowed Ground still locks you to an area without anything like enough defensive value to make actually staying in it worthwhile, unless that armor buff is in the thousands now.

 

Renewal is still total, absolute garbage. It's mechanics are just the worst. Tying it to HG is not going to help.

 

Reckoning needs to not be tied to HG to have it try and be as good as Avalanche baseline.

 

The passive is...well it's garbage too. It may be better than the current one, but jesus, NOT having a passive is better than the current one.

 

 

[SenorClipClop]

Looks promising. Gonna need to play it and see if it works well in the later game.

[artemisfortune]

With the exception of Smite, these proposed changes still suck.

Hallowed Ground should follow you in a circle.

Renewal should be either scrapped for a defensive buff like the sentinels have (resistance to damage types as you take damage from that type) or allow healing passed max health.

Reckoning should be scrapped into something more engaging. Avalanche works on frost. WoF works on Ember. We don't need another press-4-and-sit warframe. It's boring. I still say he needs a hammer/mace and shield exalted weapon. He's the only other frame who I think should get one.

Edited April 21, 2017 by JSharpie

[(PSN)jFresh215]

 

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

I still say he needs a hammer/mace and shield exalted weapon. He's the only other frame who I think should get one.

This is something I didn't know I wanted. I want this more than my unborn child. 

[Carnage2K4]

21 minutes ago, Kierlak said:

Smite was one of the better first abilities before, it's still ok with this change.

Hallowed Ground still locks you to an area without anything like enough defensive value to make actually staying in it worthwhile, unless that armor buff is in the thousands now.

Renewal is still total, absolute garbage. It's mechanics are just the worst. Tying it to HG is not going to help.

Reckoning needs to not be tied to HG to have it try and be as good as Avalanche baseline.

The passive is...well it's garbage too. It may be better than the current one, but jesus, NOT having a passive is better than the current one.

No pleasing some ppl...

I'd down vote you if I could, and I don't even like Oberon in general...

Edited April 21, 2017 by Carnage2K4

[Blade_Wolf_16]

5 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

It's boring. I still say he needs a hammer/mace and shield exalted weapon. He's the only other frame who I think should get one.

Errh... Even if it kinda fit, it would still be nothing more than an exalted melee like EB, Hysteria and PF, so not really that original imo. I also kinda don't like exalted melees in general. 

[artemisfortune]

Just now, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Errh... Even if it kinda fit, it would still be nothing more than an exalted melee like EB, Hysteria and PF, so not really that original imo. I also kinda don't like exalted melees in general. 

Not everyone will like everything, but with regards to how exalted melees work, you could make it like the Magistar in a way. Say for each enemy hit a portion of the damage you deal is spread to you and your allies as health. Maybe it's slams could also be a radial heal. I'd rather bind his healing abilities to playing with him than shooting off a single ability. Especially if his 3 gets turned into my proposed change. I think it fits him as a character and it would make him fill a role that isn't filled by a lot of frames - Defensive Buffs.

[(PSN)lilkevin107]

18 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

With the exception of Smite, these proposed changes still suck.

Hallowed Ground should follow you in a circle.

Renewal should be either scrapped for a defensive buff like the sentinels have (resistance to damage types as you take damage from that type) or allow healing passed max health.

Reckoning should be scrapped into something more engaging. Avalanche works on frost. WoF works on Ember. We don't need another press-4-and-sit warframe. It's boring. I still say he needs a hammer/mace and shield exalted weapon. He's the only other frame who I think should get one.

Yea I agree with you but, I kinda didn't want Oberon to get a hammer/mace and shield exalted weapon because too many frames have it. Exalted weapons get kinda boring after awhile. 

[(PSN)lilkevin107]

22 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Looks promising. Gonna need to play it and see if it works well in the later game.

Yea, but hopefully they still consider adding more tweaks to the abilities cause some of them that were showcased seemed kind of situational. 

[artemisfortune]

Just now, (PS4)lilkevin107 said:

Yea I agree with you but, I kinda didn't want Oberon to get a hammer/mace and shield exalted weapon because too many frames have it. Exalted weapons get kinda boring after awhile. 

Wukong, Titania(If you count her), Ivara, Excal, Valkyr, and maybe you can include Mesa.

That's 6 if you're being super technical. Out of 32 frames. That really isn't a lot of frames even if you add Oberon. I can't say I'm swayed from thinking it should be an exalted weapon.

This is all hypothetical though. I doubt DE will consider my idea.

[(PSN)lilkevin107]

11 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Wukong, Titania(If you count her), Ivara, Excal, Valkyr, and maybe you can include Mesa.

That's 6 if you're being super technical. Out of 32 frames. That really isn't a lot of frames even if you add Oberon. I can't say I'm swayed from thinking it should be an exalted weapon.

This is all hypothetical though. I doubt DE will consider my idea.

Imo 6 is too much, it was fine when Excalibur and Valkyr had it, but now I feel like everyone wants exalted abilities on every new or old frame. It was cool when Excalibur and Valkyr had it, but now I'm kinda not feeling them :/ it should of been unique to only them and that's it. Some people may disagree but its just my opinion. I could see Oberon having an exalted ability, but even if it did happen, I feel like people will only use Oberon for his exalted ability.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, (PS4)lilkevin107 said:

Imo 6 is too much, it was fine when Excalibur and Valkyr had it, but now I feel like everyone wants exalted abilities on every new or old frame. It was cool when Excalibur and Valkyr had it, but now I'm kinda not feeling them :/ it should of been unique to only them and that's it. Some people may disagree but its just my opinion. I could see Oberon having an exalted ability, but even if it did happen, I feel like people will only use Oberon for his exalted ability.

I rarely use Excal's exalted, same with wukong and titania. Valkyr's I use often if I ever use her.

Idk, I don't see it as bad, and it's better than press-4-to-aoe.

[redeyedtreefrog]

OK, so there's a number of gripes I've got. First off, hallowed ground? Still not radial. Still, they've made progress, by making it conical. This, I can live with, but it still ticks me off.

Second, his renewal. This is where I get really confused as to DE's reasoning here, because near as I can tell, they've nerfed the ability into the ground (and, depending on who you ask, it was already nearly there to start with). After debating the pros and cons of the renewal changes, I realized this: (know that some of the stats here are speculation, since I don't actually have the reworked oberon in my hands, I am simply combining the mechanics of nova's molecular prime and oberon's current renewal, since that seems to be DE's aim)

Renewal was originally far worse than trinity's blessing. It doesn't touch shields, it doesn't have nearly as powerful of a heal, and it doesn't bestow any damage resistance, compared to trinity's high damage resistance. However, it did have ONE edge over trinity: It had infinite range. travel time, sure, but if someone hares off from the rest of the group, oberon can still heal them if he times his casts properly. Trinity can't. 

So, when DE looks at this one edge oberon has over trinity, they take the edge, and remove it entirely. Now, oberon's range is affected by duration, and still has travel time, making its delivery method, hands-down, in every way, completely worse than trinity's. Hell, even inaros has better heals now, in the form of scarab swarm, which can heal allies in range, to full, instantly(provided you've got a weapon powerful enough and enemies with a high enough health pool to achieve the numbers required for that).

Now, let's tackle the hopeless mire that is oberon's duration-based range on renewal.

DE stated that, just like nova's molecular prime, renewal's effective range will be based on duration. However, it was also mentioned that it will remain a channeled ability. This is already bad, in my opinion, since you have to cancel the ability before casting it again, which I find clunky, especially on a spam-heavy frame like oberon. This channeled ability means that renewal will likely keep these current mechanics in the reworked version:

1. Renewal's regen will be inversely affected by duration mods (high duration results in a lower total regen time, and vice versa).

2. Renewal will likely still have to be cancelled before being re-cast if its effect is currently active on any allies.

3. Renewal will still be stripped when an ally reaches full health (it was mentioned in the devstream that this was still the case, so I'm interpreting this as fact, currently)

The first point puts modding oberon in a vicious cycle. Say you wanted to build an oberon focused on the armor buff that allies standing in hallowed ground will recieve when affected by renewal. You likely want the duration of the regen to be long, so you'd mod for low duration(due to the inverse effect). But wait a minute! Low duration will make renewal only affect a very small total area, so you'd be forced to have allies "gather for buffs", or, worst-case scenario, chase down your allies to try renewalíng them at point-blank. The opposite is also true: Modding for a long-lasting renewal bubble will result in very quick regen, making the use of the armor buffs or the phoenix renewal augment impossible. The only balanced solution (in a frame whose kit is centered around balance, mind you) is mediocrity. Even strength has a negative effect on oberons who are building for renewal's buffs, since high strength will result in them reaching full health faster, and the buffs will be stripped faster.

The second point wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't that his renewal now travels even slower than before, meaning that, if you need another burst heal, right now, you'll have to cancel renewal (which I can only imagine will pop the bubble), and re-cast it, meaning any allies who hadn't yet been touched by the first bubble miss out on its effects. This works the same as before, so I wouldn't mind that effect staying, if it weren't for the new-and-slowed-down renewal delivery mechanism.

The third point is another that I believe will disappoint the majority of oberon players. Renewal's regeneration and phoenix renewal were always mediocre because of this, but now there's yet another mechanic of oberon's that is mediocre: his armor buff for players affected by oberon's hallowed ground when renewal hits them. It doesn't make sense for DE to add a buff that will rarely appear for any more than a few seconds, no matter how you mod duration. Why add an ability buff that won't see use, especially in a rework?

 

I'm going to withhold my final judgement until his rework actually hits, but for now, the problems I've described do not get me hyped or excited for oberon, his rework, or his prime version, which is likely the next in line of prime accesses. I just see more of the same: a whole warframe that's brimming with potential, held back by but a few threads in the form of clunky mechanics.

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

So smite looks awesome.... Others.... Not so much. 

Maybe the final numbers will prove us wrong,  I hope they do. Curious about the armor buff, anything shy of 300 is not worth the time stacking abilities. Especially for only like ~20 seconds of a crap armor boost. Renewal seems like a downer again. Needs to be like a little HP version of iron skin IMO. 

[(PSN)lilkevin107]

16 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

OK, so there's a number of gripes I've got. First off, hallowed ground? Still not radial. Still, they've made progress, by making it conical. This, I can live with, but it still ticks me off.

Second, his renewal. This is where I get really confused as to DE's reasoning here, because near as I can tell, they've nerfed the ability into the ground (and, depending on who you ask, it was already nearly there to start with). After debating the pros and cons of the renewal changes, I realized this: (know that some of the stats here are speculation, since I don't actually have the reworked oberon in my hands, I am simply combining the mechanics of nova's molecular prime and oberon's current renewal, since that seems to be DE's aim)

Renewal was originally far worse than trinity's blessing. It doesn't touch shields, it doesn't have nearly as powerful of a heal, and it doesn't bestow any damage resistance, compared to trinity's high damage resistance. However, it did have ONE edge over trinity: It had infinite range. travel time, sure, but if someone hares off from the rest of the group, oberon can still heal them if he times his casts properly. Trinity can't. 

So, when DE looks at this one edge oberon has over trinity, they take the edge, and remove it entirely. Now, oberon's range is affected by duration, and still has travel time, making its delivery method, hands-down, in every way, completely worse than trinity's. Hell, even inaros has better heals now, in the form of scarab swarm, which can heal allies in range, to full, instantly(provided you've got a weapon powerful enough and enemies with a high enough health pool to achieve the numbers required for that).

Now, let's tackle the hopeless mire that is oberon's duration-based range on renewal.

DE stated that, just like nova's molecular prime, renewal's effective range will be based on duration. However, it was also mentioned that it will remain a channeled ability. This is already bad, in my opinion, since you have to cancel the ability before casting it again, which I find clunky, especially on a spam-heavy frame like oberon. This channeled ability means that renewal will likely keep these current mechanics in the reworked version:

1. Renewal's regen will be inversely affected by duration mods (high duration results in a lower total regen time, and vice versa).

2. Renewal will likely still have to be cancelled before being re-cast if its effect is currently active on any allies.

3. Renewal will still be stripped when an ally reaches full health (it was mentioned in the devstream that this was still the case, so I'm interpreting this as fact, currently)

The first point puts modding oberon in a vicious cycle. Say you wanted to build an oberon focused on the armor buff that allies standing in hallowed ground will recieve when affected by renewal. You likely want the duration of the regen to be long, so you'd mod for low duration(due to the inverse effect). But wait a minute! Low duration will make renewal only affect a very small total area, so you'd be forced to have allies "gather for buffs", or, worst-case scenario, chase down your allies to try renewalíng them at point-blank. The opposite is also true: Modding for a long-lasting renewal bubble will result in very quick regen, making the use of the armor buffs or the phoenix renewal augment impossible. The only balanced solution (in a frame whose kit is centered around balance, mind you) is mediocrity. Even strength has a negative effect on oberons who are building for renewal's buffs, since high strength will result in them reaching full health faster, and the buffs will be stripped faster.

The second point wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't that his renewal now travels even slower than before, meaning that, if you need another burst heal, right now, you'll have to cancel renewal (which I can only imagine will pop the bubble), and re-cast it, meaning any allies who hadn't yet been touched by the first bubble miss out on its effects. This works the same as before, so I wouldn't mind that effect staying, if it weren't for the new-and-slowed-down renewal delivery mechanism.

The third point is another that I believe will disappoint the majority of oberon players. Renewal's regeneration and phoenix renewal were always mediocre because of this, but now there's yet another mechanic of oberon's that is mediocre: his armor buff for players affected by oberon's hallowed ground when renewal hits them. It doesn't make sense for DE to add a buff that will rarely appear for any more than a few seconds, no matter how you mod duration. Why add an ability buff that won't see use, especially in a rework?

 

I'm going to withhold my final judgement until his rework actually hits, but for now, the problems I've described do not get me hyped or excited for oberon, his rework, or his prime version, which is likely the next in line of prime accesses. I just see more of the same: a whole warframe that's brimming with potential, held back by but a few threads in the form of clunky mechanics.

Yea I agree with you on Renewal. Why nerf the range of it? It was already clunky to begin with. I especially hate how it will still stop healing when allies reach full health. That's so irritating! But at least the energy drain will only take effect when it hits allies. I was also excited for Oberon Prime, but now I don't know :( we'll just have to see when we get our hands on the rework, hopefully in April.

[Hypernaut1]

i think it looks awesome, didnt expect much to begin with and im already effective with Oberon. Some people wont be happy unless they see every ability remade into something OP. At a certain, maybe you just need to play a different frame.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Rekkou]

Is it just me or the reworks actually got weaker the higher the abilities are?

Smite, Scaling damage? can't say no to that.

Hallowed Ground, Better area coverage is nice and instant rad procs is a plus, but didn't Reckoning already do that? Constant areal rad procs will make Hallowed Ground becomes better at rad proccing than Reckoning. I can see this being very useful on Infested defense.

Renewal, Didn't Hallowed Ground already give armor buff? Unless the armor stacks with HG armor buff, the this means HG actually got nerfed just for the sake of forced synergy?

Reckoning, It feels meh, considering Avalanche also debuff armor and stops enemies for like 8 seconds. Basically you need to Cast hallowed ground, then Reckoning just to debuff enemies. But Hallowed Ground does not have the same area coverage as Reckoning. So only some of the reckoned enemies will be debuffed.

At the moment, some abilities now have overlapping purposes and the synergy feels very forced, it's like the abilities are DLC for each other. After seeing what they've done to Limbo, this reworks just feels very lazy.

 

[Evanescent]

Looks good, but going to need some hands on with it.

Wish Hallowed ground followed you.

Smite is awesome.

Renewal....It needs to persist for a duration and be recastable.

Reckoning...kinda wish it was more interactive but I need to see what it does more.

Passive...is actually quite good now depending on how much it reduces cooldown. If it's noticeable then holy smokes, can you imagine a Kavat with that!

[Kerberos-3]

Honestly, this should have been a total overhaul. While the buff to Smite is nice and all, his other abilities are still terrible. The theme is a bad one still(D&D Paladin is pretty pointless when the tag-team of a Cleric and a Warlord does the same job a thousand times better), and that passive. How on Earth did DE manage to take a passive like Beastmaster which, while extremely situational, had it's uses, and change it into something that forces people to use Kubrows and Kavats? I would have been fine with it, had they simply added the new effect to the existing passive, thus giving Oberon a two-part passive.

[redeyedtreefrog]

2 minutes ago, Kerberos-3 said:

Honestly, this should have been a total overhaul. While the buff to Smite is nice and all, his other abilities are still terrible. The theme is a bad one still(D&D Paladin is pretty pointless when the tag-team of a Cleric and a Warlord does the same job a thousand times better), and that passive. How on Earth did DE manage to take a passive like Beastmaster which, while extremely situational, had it's uses, and change it into something that forces people to use Kubrows and Kavats? I would have been fine with it, had they simply added the new effect to the existing passive, thus giving Oberon a two-part passive.

The existing passive has good uses, but can be unduly frustrating to the progression of interception and defense missions. A passive which cannot be toggled, built around, or otherwise modified to suit ones purposes shouldn't have any drawbacks (again, especially so in a frame which is built around being an äll-purpose" frame).

[Teloch]

2 hours ago, (PS4)lilkevin107 said:

Allied pets get cooldown reductions on their abilities and attacks

Previusly, Adarzas provided with 20 seconds of boosted crits per a minute. With this one, it might become 30 seconds per a minute, aka 1/2 stabile buff time ratio.

But people will complain and rant anyway, as if the new oberon's passive is as junky as rhino's >__>

 

[PsiWarp]

He better get a bigger energy pool with all the Hallowed Grounds he'll want to put down.

[Midrib]

Overall the changes will be a buff to Oberon, But is it enough to make him relevant? I personally don't think so.

Smite has always been my favorite ability that Oberon has, making it scalable is really nice. 

Hallowed Ground, I've never personally liked this ability, I felt as if its restricting my movement whenever I casted it and the reward factor was highly disappointing, Now with Rad procs and bigger radius, its much better. I personally don't like being locked down in a specific ability, specially when 70% you are required to be moving around or you die.

Renewal, Just give him a better healing ability, because this whole Molecular prime isn't working out, It might even make it worse, The energy drain that Oberon has on his heal is horrible, just remove it, Tick based healing is also horrible and ineffective 90% of the time, slapping Molecular prime to it does nothing but nerf its range and forces Oberon to chase his teammates if he wants to heal them, no just no.

Reckoning, I wish they would've added something to this ability, because after a certain point with this rework, it just becomes a glorified hollowed ground, It should scale with radiation, a flat damage increase does nothing for Oberon at higher levels, Armor debuffs are nice, but they wont save this ability at higher levels.

[TotallyLagging]

I'm going to need some stats on that passive before I start trashing it. It could potentially be good for Smeeta Charm farming or simply getting more crits from an Adarza.

Smite change is good. I welcome any damage ability that scales.

Hallowed Ground still doesn't follow you/is in a circle around you. Considering how Renewal and Reckoning works (*cough* an AoE around you *cough*) and how they're supposed to synergize with it this is rather disappointing.

Renewal... Well, it's no longer a healing orb, so that's an improvement. It's now an MP-style AoE similar to Mag Polarize change. The flat armor bonus better give at least 200-300 before I even consider using it. I certainly would've preferred a complete rework for this ability.

Reckoning is still good I guess? As Reb said, they didn't changed it much, they simply made it synergize with HG. Gonna see the numbers on the armor debuff before I could say anything about it.