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Oberon Revisited: Prime Time Surprise and Next Steps!


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25 minutes ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:

Oberon having 200 armor instead of 150 would be nice and plays out mathematically quite nicely. 

Still want to Hallowed Ground being like an AOE where it moves with Oberon similar to Nezha's Firewalker. 

 

1. Agreed. As a 'Frame that kinda needs to be up front and center casting somewhat short ranged abilities, he could really do with that. To those arguing against this or saying  "There's no need", Yes, Renewal + HG is supposed to give Oberon the armor he needs...but he doesn't always have the energy to keep casting that combo and at any rate, the armor buff is on a timer.

2. Then you'll have Hallowed Aura, not Hallowed Ground. And now you'll have yet another Warframe with an aura that buffs and does damage...and you'll have removed some of Oberon's uniqueness and  heavily restricted his effectiveness - namely the ability to cover multiple, large areas with carpets of pain for enemies. So no. Absolutely do not want.

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50 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

1. Agreed. As a 'Frame that kinda needs to be up front and center casting somewhat short ranged abilities, he could really do with that. To those arguing against this or saying  "There's no need", Yes, Renewal + HG is supposed to give Oberon the armor he needs...but he doesn't always have the energy to keep casting that combo and at any rate, the armor buff is on a timer.

2. Then you'll have Hallowed Aura, not Hallowed Ground. And now you'll have yet another Warframe with an aura that buffs and does damage...and you'll have removed some of Oberon's uniqueness and  heavily restricted his effectiveness - namely the ability to cover multiple, large areas with carpets of pain for enemies. So no. Absolutely do not want.

Hallowed ground: There are two stages to this ability. The first one is the regular flames that Oberon casts and the second is the flames coming onto Oberon when he stands on it. 

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Ok, so have taken some time to play with his new kit and I have my feedback on everything. I don't plan on begging for any specific changes but I may make suggestions, I don't pretend to be a game designer so I don't really think any of my suggestions should be taken too literally DE can probably figure out how best to fix these issues than I. Besides I don't want to be another guy begging for more crap to be tossed onto Oberon, we need to get his kit working as is.

Stats

Oberon could deal with slightly boosted stats, lets be honest though, why is DE going to tune the base frame when his prime (SHOULD!) be coming out soon? Why buff his b ase stats when they are just going to buff him again with a prime. Not only is it business savvy, its game balance savvy to just sit on it. Maybe they will re-tune the base frames stats after deciding the new stats for the prime.

Smite

Even after the recant change smite still feels weaker than it was pre-revisit, and its not really scaling all that well, a lot of people are pointing fingers at the orb number and I think I understand their logic. My issue is they were not an issue pre-rework, what has changed about them that makes them a problem now? What I don't think I should have to tell most people is increasing the range of the additional orbs is not a good idea as that just means they are going to bounce around being useless for longer.

Hallowed Ground

Seems to be working fine, would be nice if the damage scaled, or it had a better status chance, but right now it seems to be working well enough. It needs to be looked at in PvP though, right now its useless, (Its not even as bigger as a Hallowed Reckoning patch). I actually think it was a good Idea moving the armor buff to the Renewal synergy making it more mobile, I think the area is reasonable, but honestly a modest increase to the base area is going to do more good than harm, and it would be much appreciated. The big issue right now is visibility its still a bit too hard to see in anything but the brightest blues and greens. Though that might be a good thing because the more I look at it, the more I miss the fuzzy carpet (I know we cant have it back at the ranges this is reaching it would cause too much lag). I have said my piece about making Hallowed Eruption augment into the Hallowed Aura rework so we all get what we want, (And kind-of need depending on mission type) until I am blue in the face. Besides, Its not as necessary anymore so I am over it.

Renewal

Mostly great changes, I haven't had too many issues with power (I run rage), Its convenient, snappy to use, and most of all fun (at least for me.). It does feel a little too strong at times, while feeling too week at others, but hey that's life. All that aside its got some funky behaviors in PvP ya'll should look into. (Despite not being a hot it still drains energy like it does in PvE and it does this thing where it becomes a weird circle just sitting there not doing anything).

Reckoning

The Armor stripping appears to be quite pointless, I have heard it does not even stack with corrosive projection? Nor is it better than the armor debuff effect of Frosts #4 at base, (You know the uber CC that outclasses everyone of Oberons skills already). So, um, really? Sorry, sorry Just a little hot under the collar about this. One thing I and many others have been asking for for a while is to see a change to Reckonings health orb generation mechanic. so that enemies hit by it are market to drop health orbs when they die rather than requiring reckoning to be the way they where killed, this would be a great boon in higher end content. Other that no complaints.

I do want to apologize to DE about any hostility they may be sensing. I personally have sat down and typed out this post 3 times, and each time it came out looking shall we say, bad. I guess I am a little too passionate about this subject, as is a lot of the community. So, Sorry :(.

P.S. I had to do another pass for typos, this is so embarrassing, not that this is uncommon for me.

Edited by Turtlemancer
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So after testing the new changes to Oberon I still found a few problems, mainly with energy, scaling and synergy.

Energy: simply said he just burns throught it. Even with primed flow and rage he emptys his energy pool in seconds healing himself alone.

Scaling: his damage abilities still after hotfix 20.3.1 don't do much damage to enemies and I know he is not supposed to be a damage frame but I'll come to the cc part. On the other side I am practically a invicible, untouchable, healing god of destruction untill lvl 60, then I become an instant kill Target (and yes I played with phoenix renewal and Quick thinking). After lvl 60 renewal just can't keep up anymore even if you have enought energy.

Synergy: I think the synergy between Hallow Ground and Renewal is a step in the right direktion, a very small step but a step, now we just have to make a bigger step. I find me casting hallowground only to get the armour buff for renewal and then forget about it till the buff bugs out when phoenix renewal kicks in. I want more reason to cast hallow ground more often, like maybe a energy regeneration if you stand in it? Or something like that. Then there is the synergy between hallowed Ground and Reckoning which you don't really notice except if you read the patchnotes, that needs to be buffed, haaaaard, to be viable.

My recomended changes to Oberons abilities woudl be:

Smite: 

  • Bonus Damage to Radiated targets, would give synergy with hallowed Ground and Reckoning.
  • Longer down time of target, just knock down priority targets, maybe longer downtime for radiated targets?

Hallowed Ground: 

  • Armor buff should always be active when you stand in Hallowed Ground and renewal makes it permament. So hallowed Ground becomes more of a safe zone for allies kinda liker Nidus 4th abilitie.
  • Energy regeneration, would help oberon maintain renewal and or his abilitie to keep casting
  • Allies whit renewal should get the armor buff when entering hakkow ground, it doesn't make much sense that the armor buff only applies when renewal is cast.

Renewal:

  • No energy cost for only been active, kinda like nekros desecrate. Why should my healing aura burn energy when my looting auro doesn't?
  • When phoenix renewal kicks in it is stupid to lose the armor buff.
  • A suggestion from me, let oberon do more damage without renewal active and less with renewal active that would bring out his duality a liitle bit more.

Reckoning:

  • Needs a stat buff, as I said earlier you don't notice the armor stripping.
  • Better cc, longer knockdown or a toggle: in which the first cast put them in the air and the second cast slams them into the ground. That would give you time to heal, revive allies or kill priority targets, it then should consume energy when active.

Changes to Oberon:

His new passive is by worlds more usefull than his old passive, but its still beyond me why he gets pets pssives... which do not have any synergie with his other abielities or roles. Please stop try to make him the pet frame and give him something usefull for his skills (maybe the dmg on dmg of thing i mentioned earlier)

At lasst a bigger energy pool would help whit his new energy Problems.

I hope my feedback will be finally, at least acknowlegded and we can make Oberon a great viable frame.

Best Regards a tenno who stood by Oberons side since his release and a proud founder of warframe.

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11 minutes ago, RielZero said:

So after testing the new changes to Oberon I still found a few problems, mainly with energy, scaling and synergy.

Energy: simply said he just burns throught it. Even with primed flow and rage he emptys his energy pool in seconds healing himself alone.

Scaling: his damage abilities still after hotfix 20.3.1 don't do much damage to enemies and I know he is not supposed to be a damage frame but I'll come to the cc part. On the other side I am practically a invicible, untouchable, healing god of destruction untill lvl 60, then I become an instant kill Target (and yes I played with phoenix renewal and Quick thinking). After lvl 60 renewal just can't keep up anymore even if you have enought energy.

Synergy: I think the synergy between Hallow Ground and Renewal is a step in the right direktion, a very small step but a step, now we just have to make a bigger step. I find me casting hallowground only to get the armour buff for renewal and then forget about it till the buff bugs out when phoenix renewal kicks in. I want more reason to cast hallow ground more often, like maybe a energy regeneration if you stand in it? Or something like that. Then there is the synergy between hallowed Ground and Reckoning which you don't really notice except if you read the patchnotes, that needs to be buffed, haaaaard, to be viable.

My recomended changes to Oberons abilities woudl be:

Smite: 

  • Bonus Damage to Radiated targets, would give synergy with hallowed Ground and Reckoning.
  • Longer down time of target, just knock down priority targets, maybe longer downtime for radiated targets?

Hallowed Ground: 

  • Armor buff should always be active when you stand in Hallowed Ground and renewal makes it permament. So hallowed Ground becomes more of a safe zone for allies kinda liker Nidus 4th abilitie.
  • Energy regeneration, would help oberon maintain renewal and or his abilitie to keep casting
  • Allies whit renewal should get the armor buff when entering hakkow ground, it doesn't make much sense that the armor buff only applies when renewal is cast.

Renewal:

  • No energy cost for only been active, kinda like nekros desecrate. Why should my healing aura burn energy when my looting auro doesn't?
  • When phoenix renewal kicks in it is stupid to lose the armor buff.
  • A suggestion from me, let oberon do more damage without renewal active and less with renewal active that would bring out his duality a liitle bit more.

Reckoning:

  • Needs a stat buff, as I said earlier you don't notice the armor stripping.
  • Better cc, longer knockdown or a toggle: in which the first cast put them in the air and the second cast slams them into the ground. That would give you time to heal, revive allies or kill priority targets, it then should consume energy when active.

Changes to Oberon:

His new passive is by worlds more usefull than his old passive, but its still beyond me why he gets pets pssives... which do not have any synergie with his other abielities or roles. Please stop try to make him the pet frame and give him something usefull for his skills (maybe the dmg on dmg of thing i mentioned earlier)

At lasst a bigger energy pool would help whit his new energy Problems.

I hope my feedback will be finally, at least acknowlegded and we can make Oberon a great viable frame.

Best Regards a tenno who stood by Oberons side since his release and a proud founder of warframe.

That really makes sense with his kit, perhaps his passive or one more befitting his use might be enhanced radiation status duration and damage against those irradiated. Its not like DE Scott can't have his beast master passive and a radiation passive that fits his skill-set.

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An idea for Reckoning, make it like Primal Fury in energy consumption, hitting enemy spend energy, but instead of Exalted weapon it now enhance any melee Oberon have on him with 10% to every stat and 15% if he have a Mace on him, if he does not have any melee then Reckoning will stay the same, hurl enemies into the air then into the ground.

It will scale with mods from weapon and Oberon just like Excalibur's Exalted Blade.

Ground slam causes the Reckoning hurling effect. 

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On 4/28/2017 at 10:47 AM, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

i found another thing that needs to be changed, smite.

power strength should not effect how many orbs you get, it should effect the percentage that you pull. it feels like its just actively nerfing you for having more power strength

 

On 4/28/2017 at 11:18 AM, MarrikBroom said:

DINGDINGDING

Splitting damage from the main orb's 'scaling' between secondary orbs means the more orbs you have the less each does and the more worthless they are since they don't have any secondary effects outside of radiation.

 

On 4/28/2017 at 2:13 PM, Urlan said:

That makes sense, explains why the orbs don't do that much, sorta hoped they would do the percentage of damage each so they could actually threaten enemies but if that is what is happening it makes perfect sense why the wisps do so little.

As he is now building a "CC" build would be his highest damage output late game...overextended on everything i guess

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1 minute ago, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

 

 

As he is now building a "CC" build would be his highest damage output late game...overextended on everything i guess

his 1 deals the same damage no matter what, its just that it splits the damage among the orbs, a CC build will have a higher damage number per orb but will still lake heavily when it cannot compete with the armor scaling 

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Just now, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

his 1 deals the same damage no matter what, its just that it splits the damage among the orbs, a CC build will have a higher damage number per orb but will still lake heavily when it cannot compete with the armor scaling 

yeah i know, that's why i said overextended, and i was being sarcastic, it was more a complaint than an actual suggestion, he sucks that's my point 

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4 hours ago, (Xbox One)CarpeNoctem365 said:

 

 

As he is now building a "CC" build would be his highest damage output late game...overextended on everything i guess

I have an ally who came to a same decision a while back on Oberon. I wonder if that build still works out?

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Oberon's main issue is that the dependencies between his abilities forcibly increase the effective energy costs of their effects. For instance, Oberon spends 150 energy on a weaker version of an armor debuff that Frost doles out for only 100 energy. He spends 75 energy + an upkeep cost for an armor buff to his team. The costs paid simply don't match up to the effects.

There are three routes to go about changing this:

  1. Give Oberon a way to replenish his own energy.
  2. Reduce the outright costs of his abilities, or increase his energy capacity.
  3. Reduce the effective costs of his ability interactions by turning them into optional costs.

Case 1 is an easy solution and reflects what was done for Saryn. For instance, his passive could be changed to grant him energy each time he inflicts a status proc, or whenever he blocks an attack with his melee weapon, or even when he receives damage as an extra rank or two of the Rage effect. One of his abilities could be changed to provide him energy when he strikes an Irradiated target with them - whatever.

Case 2 is also an easy solution, although less likely in terms of game balance - after all, giving Oberon an ultimate with a lower cost than anyone else's would certainly stand out. Renewal has a higher cost when it's healing allies than it does if it affects Oberon alone, which is rather backwards - especially since it can burn out his energy pool whenever the effect hits someone's pet.

Case 3 is trickier, but I think will be more worthwhile in the long run. 

The best way to reduce these effective costs is to address the interactions directly - having Renewal or Hallowed Ground grant armor to allies without the other, having Reckoning or Hallowed Ground remove armor from enemies without the other, removing the bonus damage from Reckoning on Confused targets. Of course, then that begs the question of synergy.

Granting, it begs that question now, since his abilities don't have "synergy". Hallowed Ground's effects do not factor into the benefits of Renewal or Reckoning themselves, only the fact that it acts as a prerequisite for their full potential; it's still not worthwhile to linger within Hallowed Ground, only to briefly step in, receive Renewal, and proceed to parkour across the map again. Reckoning has as much "synergy" from being spammed as it has with Smite, and a more reliable damage bonus than it would get from Hallowed Ground. There is a reason I used the word "dependencies" earlier.

The best way to go about this is to address the value of Hallowed Ground itself to encourage its independent use. Just as one example:

  • Hallowed Ground increases the armor of allies standing within it. Whenever an enemy is slain within Hallowed Ground, the damage of and armor bonus provided by that patch of Hallowed Ground increases based on the target's level for the remainder of the patch's duration.
  • The flat armor bonus granted by Renewal is based on a snapshot of Oberon's own armor.
  • Either Smite or Reckoning inflicts an outright Duration-based Blind instead of Confusion/Knockdown procs.

While there would still be a similar benefit to combining Renewal and Hallowed Ground as today, the armor buff that comes as an overlap of the two's unique effects is a beneficial change for multiple reasons. Hallowed Ground provides this armor buff independently of the interaction with Renewal (thereby reducing the cost to produce the armor buff), but the two effects can still be combined (thereby making the cost selective). The ability to Blind targets will also allow players to stun enemies for extended periods within the bounds of Hallowed Ground, forcing them to soak in the damage for a longer period than a knockdown, and thus contribute to the armor bonus - but it also doesn't require the Blind, thereby making it a choice whether to spend the energy and giving the user leniency to determine how to drum up the effect. It would also make Oberon players more likely to deploy Hallowed Ground as a weapon, and allies more likely to do combat in Hallowed Ground.

Edited by Archwizard
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Before this snowballs, if i may interject. See what I did there there? Snowball, because its a Frost. Fine! I'll leave, but before I go. I would like to point out some key differences between the two abilities.
 

Ground Rules:

  • We will be using base stats of both Oberon's and Frost's abilities. (Mods on different builds, of course will yield different results. Let try to eliminate those inconsistencies)
  • Maxed Rank abilities should be a given if it was not.
  • This post most be pun-tastic for the full radiation effect. That way you can slowly die as you read on.
  • Cherry-picking is forbidden in Oberon's garden! (More on this later in the post)
  • If my math or any other statement is wrong, please correct me. (I'd rather look like a fool once than to remain ignorant for life.)

Let's Chat Over a Picnic:

If you're going to cherry-pick, better make sure they aren't poisonous! Lets compare Avalanche's and Reckoning's Armor Reduction in more detail. I'll start by explaining exactly how the two are different in terms of the armor reduction.

Avalanche reduces the enemies' current armor by 40% for a duration of 8 seconds. That's pretty cool! Reckoning reduces enemies' armor by 30%

Oberon's armor reduction is much lower than Frost's. If i were to add Power strength mods, it would fall even further behind.

What a Beautiful Lake:

Time to test out the waters! We will stack them against each other to see exactly how they affect the enemy. Since both Reckoning and Avalanche can one shot lower level enemies, we will exclude early game and aim for end game. Lets set the enemies' current armor to 8000. Which is around a level 100 Heavy Gunner for a starting point.

Experiment #1:

Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200

H. Ground  Consumes 050 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000

Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400

Results of #1:

Avalanche is better at reducing armor, and more energy efficient. Well that concludes our test for today, see you al- Wait a minute, that's a very controlled experiment don't you think? How about be we try that again except in a real world situation! and this time lets add Duration because that is a big part of how Avalanche and Reckoning's Armor Reductions differ.

Experiment #2:

Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200 Duration 08 Seconds

H. Ground  Consumes 050 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration 20 Seconds

Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400 Duration Infinity

Results of #2:

The results are the same as the first experiment because not much has changed. We do notice Avalanche seems to be temporary. Once its duration is up, the armor is returned. Yes Reckoning does cost more, however the tradeoff is the armor remains removed until the enemy is dispatched. As we all know it can take some time to get rid of an enemy at end game. Doing as much damage on a timer is fun and all but inefficient, if you have to stop and recast. With Reckoning, you don't have to stop and cast, its advantageous if you do but you don't have to. Or you could cast multiple ones before you start. This time lets assume you somehow needed more than 8 seconds to remove an enemy from the situation.

Experiment #3:

1st  Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200 Duration 08 Seconds

2nd Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200 Duration 08 Seconds

1st  H. Ground  Consumes 050 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration 20 Seconds

1st  Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400 Duration Infinity

2nd Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 3,920 Removed Armor 1,680 Duration Infinity

Results of #3:

The difference in how the 2 abilities deal with armor are becoming even more apparent. The Accumulative Armor Reduction is 4,080 which is permanent. That is very important here, and easily overlooked. Reckoning still isn't as efficient and a longer setup, which could turn away most players. Diminishing returns are in effect here as well but I would rather have a debuff that stacks and is permanent than one that doesn't stack and is temporary.

 

 

Wooded Area:

This is a dangerous area, but lets explore anyway! I'm going to go a step further by adding mods to mix. Now you know what i mean by dangerous, because everyone mods differently. Lets use everything to our advantage such as Weapons, Zenurik, and a Kubrow. I will not use any energy/health pods or summoned allies. In a real situation you would use these, but for some simplicity and constant results these are excluded. Since a majority of frames 1st - 4th abilities requires the aid of weapons and energy regeneration at end game, I felt it necessary to keep it fair. I know I'm breaking my own rules, but for the sake of argument lets see what results we get.

Obby CC Build: Power Duration 088% Power Range 235% Power Efficiency 170% Power Strength 110%

Great for Crowd Control. Duration had to take a small hit. Not enough to be noticeable because of how Oberon's abilities work. Great range and Efficiency. Low power strength on Oberon isn't necessarily a bad thing. With low power strength i managed to stay at base 6 summoned orbs. I will explain why that is good later. Lets Use all of his abilities except don't leave Renewal active. Cant regenerate energy while its active and Energy Orbs at end game do not drop as often. Use Renewal as a cast ability when things aren't going your way.

1st. H. Ground  Consumes 015 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration 17 Seconds

1st. Reckoning  Consumes 030 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400 Duration Infinity

1st. Smite. . . .   Consumes 008 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration N/A

1st. Renewal .   Consumes 008 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration N/A

2nd Reckoning  Consumes 030 Energy Current Armor 3,920 Removed Armor 1,680 Duration Infinity

2nd Smite. . . .   Consumes 008 Energy Current Armor 3,920 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration N/A

Results of Unofficial #1:

With Hallowed Ground active I was able to receive the buffs from it such as Armor, Knockdown immunity etc. Smite knocks down the most dangerous targets opening them up to finishers, which completely ignores armor. Reckoning strips armor, knocks them down. and causes confusion, mitigating the damage you receive even further. With every successive cast of Reckoning all of your abilities and weapons, especially Smite will do even more damage because it is permanently stripping armor. Reckoning can also cause Blind status on some enemies, x8 damage multiplier would equal insane damage right? I've always used Oberon as a support frame, meaning i make the jobs of other frames easier. In my humble opinion, your abilities work way better together now than before the rework. Still buggy and could still  use some tweaks here and there. I'm looking at you Renewal, why are you a toggle buddy? Overall these are steps in the right direction.

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1 hour ago, DonOvGames said:

Before this snowballs, if i may interject. See what I did there there? Snowball, because its a Frost. Fine! I'll leave, but before I go. I would like to point out some key differences between the two abilities.
 

Ground Rules:

  • We will be using base stats of both Oberon's and Frost's abilities. (Mods on different builds, of course will yield different results. Let try to eliminate those inconsistencies)
  • Maxed Rank abilities should be a given if it was not.
  • This post most be pun-tastic for the full radiation effect. That way you can slowly die as you read on.
  • Cherry-picking is forbidden in Oberon's garden! (More on this later in the post)
  • If my math or any other statement is wrong, please correct me. (I'd rather look like a fool once than to remain ignorant for life.)

Let's Chat Over a Picnic:

If you're going to cherry-pick, better make sure they aren't poisonous! Lets compare Avalanche's and Reckoning's Armor Reduction in more detail. I'll start by explaining exactly how the two are different in terms of the armor reduction.

Avalanche reduces the enemies' current armor by 40% for a duration of 8 seconds. That's pretty cool! Reckoning reduces enemies' armor by 30%

Oberon's armor reduction is much lower than Frost's. If i were to add Power strength mods, it would fall even further behind.

What a Beautiful Lake:

Time to test out the waters! We will stack them against each other to see exactly how they affect the enemy. Since both Reckoning and Avalanche can one shot lower level enemies, we will exclude early game and aim for end game. Lets set the enemies' current armor to 8000. Which is around a level 100 Heavy Gunner for a starting point.

Experiment #1:

Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200

H. Ground  Consumes 050 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000

Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400

Results of #1:

Avalanche is better at reducing armor, and more energy efficient. Well that concludes our test for today, see you al- Wait a minute, that's a very controlled experiment don't you think? How about be we try that again except in a real world situation! and this time lets add Duration because that is a big part of how Avalanche and Reckoning's Armor Reductions differ.

Experiment #2:

Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200 Duration 08 Seconds

H. Ground  Consumes 050 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration 20 Seconds

Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400 Duration Infinity

Results of #2:

The results are the same as the first experiment because not much has changed. We do notice Avalanche seems to be temporary. Once its duration is up, the armor is returned. Yes Reckoning does cost more, however the tradeoff is the armor remains removed until the enemy is dispatched. As we all know it can take some time to get rid of an enemy at end game. Doing as much damage on a timer is fun and all but inefficient, if you have to stop and recast. With Reckoning, you don't have to stop and cast, its advantageous if you do but you don't have to. Or you could cast multiple ones before you start. This time lets assume you somehow needed more than 8 seconds to remove an enemy from the situation.

Experiment #3:

1st  Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200 Duration 08 Seconds

2nd Avalanche  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 4,800 Removed Armor 3,200 Duration 08 Seconds

1st  H. Ground  Consumes 050 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration 20 Seconds

1st  Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400 Duration Infinity

2nd Reckoning  Consumes 100 Energy Current Armor 3,920 Removed Armor 1,680 Duration Infinity

Results of #3:

The difference in how the 2 abilities deal with armor are becoming even more apparent. The Accumulative Armor Reduction is 4,080 which is permanent. That is very important here, and easily overlooked. Reckoning still isn't as efficient and a longer setup, which could turn away most players. Diminishing returns are in effect here as well but I would rather have a debuff that stacks and is permanent than one that doesn't stack and is temporary.

 

 

Wooded Area:

This is a dangerous area, but lets explore anyway! I'm going to go a step further by adding mods to mix. Now you know what i mean by dangerous, because everyone mods differently. Lets use everything to our advantage such as Weapons, Zenurik, and a Kubrow. I will not use any energy/health pods or summoned allies. In a real situation you would use these, but for some simplicity and constant results these are excluded. Since a majority of frames 1st - 4th abilities requires the aid of weapons and energy regeneration at end game, I felt it necessary to keep it fair. I know I'm breaking my own rules, but for the sake of argument lets see what results we get.

Obby CC Build: Power Duration 088% Power Range 235% Power Efficiency 170% Power Strength 110%

Great for Crowd Control. Duration had to take a small hit. Not enough to be noticeable because of how Oberon's abilities work. Great range and Efficiency. Low power strength on Oberon isn't necessarily a bad thing. With low power strength i managed to stay at base 6 summoned orbs. I will explain why that is good later. Lets Use all of his abilities except don't leave Renewal active. Cant regenerate energy while its active and Energy Orbs at end game do not drop as often. Use Renewal as a cast ability when things aren't going your way.

1st. H. Ground  Consumes 015 Energy Current Armor 8,000 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration 17 Seconds

1st. Reckoning  Consumes 030 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 2,400 Duration Infinity

1st. Smite. . . .   Consumes 008 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration N/A

1st. Renewal .   Consumes 008 Energy Current Armor 5,600 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration N/A

2nd Reckoning  Consumes 030 Energy Current Armor 3,920 Removed Armor 1,680 Duration Infinity

2nd Smite. . . .   Consumes 008 Energy Current Armor 3,920 Removed Armor 0,000 Duration N/A

Results of Unofficial #1:

With Hallowed Ground active I was able to receive the buffs from it such as Armor, Knockdown immunity etc. Smite knocks down the most dangerous targets opening them up to finishers, which completely ignores armor. Reckoning strips armor, knocks them down. and causes confusion, mitigating the damage you receive even further. With every successive cast of Reckoning all of your abilities and weapons, especially Smite will do even more damage because it is permanently stripping armor. Reckoning can also cause Blind status on some enemies, x8 damage multiplier would equal insane damage right? I've always used Oberon as a support frame, meaning i make the jobs of other frames easier. In my humble opinion, your abilities work way better together now than before the rework. Still buggy and could still  use some tweaks here and there. I'm looking at you Renewal, why are you a toggle buddy? Overall these are steps in the right direction.

You do realize that anyone could easily achive a stronger armor strip with a corrosive damage build on their weapon.

You act like an infinite amount of time on an armor debuff is so great when you don't consider the reality that once those 8 seconds are over everyone has already shredded the heck out of the targets armor. Not to mention that the armor debuff does not stack with or even perform better than running corrosive projection.

The point isn't that its not better than frost's the point is that in order to "Buff" a sub-par frame they slapped on a ineffectual feature.

Also Renewal is a toggle because the majority of players wanted it that way. Also so you can keep the armor buff on your allies while they run off like sheep to the slaughter because they cant be bothered to stick together as a group.

Edited by Turtlemancer
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Just now, Kothophed said:

Oberon is now the weakest frame in the game, as well as being extremely boring in terms of play.  He needs a real rework.

Nore is he the weakest frame in the game that "Distinguished Honor" belongs to hydroid. This is an actual rework and it would be pretty good if DE just sat down and did the work to get his numbers where they actually need to be. That's what most of the Oberon community wants at this point. While it might be nice to get some real polish we are going to have to compromise. Besides most of the community reworks are basically entirely different warframes and assume that's what you want, but thats not what people who actually play Oberon want.

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25 minutes ago, Turtlemancer said:

This is an actual rework and it would be pretty good if DE just sat down and did the work to get his numbers where they actually need to be.

And decoupling half of Renewal and Reckoning's power from Hallowed Ground.

 

However yes mostly a numbers tweak would be acceptable. Not what I personally want. Mind you this Rework does help SOME. I can see where it could be and it'd be good to get some numbers juggled about. Maybe a new passive, maybe not. However if they just retune the numbers so he's not so energy ravenous and make Reckoning feel better...

 

My biggest complaints beyond 'numbers' is the fact hallowed ground is a murkey hard to see GOOP. I can't plan around an ability I can barely see regardless of energy color.

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1 minute ago, MarrikBroom said:

And decoupling half of Renewal and Reckoning's power from Hallowed Ground.

 

However yes mostly a numbers tweak would be acceptable. Not what I personally want. Mind you this Rework does help SOME. I can see where it could be and it'd be good to get some numbers juggled about. Maybe a new passive, maybe not. However if they just retune the numbers so he's not so energy ravenous and make Reckoning feel better...

 

My biggest complaints beyond 'numbers' is the fact hallowed ground is a murkey hard to see GOOP. I can't plan around an ability I can barely see regardless of energy color.

Pretty much my opinion at this point actually.

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1 hour ago, Turtlemancer said:

You do realize that anyone could easily achive a stronger armor strip with a corrosive damage build on their weapon.

You act like an infinite amount of time on an armor debuff is so great when you don't consider the reality that once those 8 seconds are over everyone has already shredded the heck out of the targets armor. Not to mention that the armor debuff does not stack with or even perform better than running corrosive projection.

The point isn't that its not better than frost's the point is that in order to "Buff" a sub-par frame they slapped on a ineffectual feature.

Also Renewal is a toggle because the majority of players wanted it that way. Also so you can keep the armor buff on your allies while they run off like sheep to the slaughter because they cant be bothered to stick together as a group.

You're being vague because there are different situations in your one post. You will have to clarify which weapon type in particular you are talking about. You would also need to say if you are targeting one enemy or multiple ones. No worries I will do it for you.

Lets start with groups of enemies. If you meant a corrosive build on a melee weapon, then yes within 8 seconds you will shred armor. Unfortunately that will be a single target, and even if you maxed Primed Reach the enemies would have to be standing a specific way. What about the others enemies trying to kill you besides the ones you're targeting? You wouldn't be able to match the amount of enemies Reckoning can hit.

What about a weapon like Zarr or Tonkor that has AoE with a blast proc to knock down enemies? It still falls short, ask anyone who has one shot themselves because they were trying to take out a group of enemies that got too close. Reckoning doesn't have that problem in fact it knocks them down with no danger to yourself. Even if you use a weapon with a wide spread and no self damage, you will still have to aim.

OK what about a single target. Reckoning still doesn't fail. You get a guaranteed knockdown which open all enemies up to finisher damage. Finisher damage removes all armor. Melee weapon drawback to get the knockdown status is you have to be within melee range to actually hit them. You could use Reckoning which is faster and safer but I suggested you use Smite for single target that has high armor. Same goes for Weapons that has an AoE, careful where you aim.

As far as Reckoning being ineffectual is debatable.

Edited by DonOvGames
meant to say 'no' self damage
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2 minutes ago, DonOvGames said:

You're being vague because there are different situations in your one post. You will have to clarify which weapon type in particular you are talking about. You would also need to say if you are targeting one enemy or multiple ones. No worries I will do it for you.

Any weapon with Toxic and electricity on it, period.

Furthermore I wasn't saying reckoning was useless I was saying the armor debuff was useless. I am fully aware of what reckoning can be used for.

Edited by Turtlemancer
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Ok its Monday settled down and thought this out this is what I want to see with oberon

smite: simple really have the 35% damage apply to "each" orb rather then being divided between the orbs and being further divided with power strength. Giving you more orbs you should be doing more damage. This would be strong against corpus, the damage at 200% power strength would barely work through the infested being resistant to the radiation damage of the orbs(ancient health 400 x0.35=140x12orbs=1680x0.25resistance=420 final damage) and you would need to use armor stripping(more on reckoning) to kill enemies with armor since armor scaling outpaces the ability scaling. Why give an ability scaling damage if it can't kill any tough enemies or at least take a chunk out of their health. If you really think this ability should not kill things then give it more orbs at base to spread more radiation and drop the scaling damage altogether.

hallowed ground: I would have liked this to be an aura that moves with oberon so you don't have to keep recasting it but that looks like it won't happen so at least buff the radius and have it proportional with renewal and reckoning so when you use these abilities together as advertised they are all hitting the same targets.

renewal: currently it just costs to much to maintain on a team of 4, even rage and perfect efficiency isn't enough. So reduce the energy cost from 3 per target to 2 per target. side note renewal stacks with multiple oberons which is nuts it should only take the strongest heal and armor and the other oberons will not lose energy. 

reckoning: increase the armor debuff from 30% to 50% to allow for 100% armor removal at 200% power strength with hallowed ground and reckoning. Your using 2 abilities at 200% strength to mimic 4 corrosive projections in a limited range that seems fair to me. increase the blind duration to 6 seconds so you can at least use it to CC while you revive an ally. and change the health orb on kill. Either on hit, increased chance when they die from something else or work it into his passive. Allowing him to generate orbs for the team will help with healing if he can do it reliably and effectively like nekros and it would allow oberon to utilize health conversion and equilibrium(Another potential fix to his energy problem).

 

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It was said multiple times. The armor buff on Renewal and armor debuff on Reckoning should be innate effects. The Hallowed Grounds should amplify the effect just like AMP of Octavia. I really like this idea. Maybe add some visual/sound effects to the combo to make the slam look stronger? The way it is right now, we are "forced" to do Hallowed Grounds.

Edited by Sebith
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