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Oberon Revisited: Prime Time Surprise and Next Steps!


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5 hours ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

SOMEONE SPITBALL IDEAS FOR BUFFS TO RECKONING BEFORE DIS IS OVER BECAUSE IT NEEDS SOMETHING TO MAKE IT FEEL LIKE A REAL ULTIMATE NOT UNDERPOWERED THANK YOU ALL

How about making enemies affected by it (rather than killed by it) drop health orbs on death.  That way you don't have to kill with it to get the health orb benefit.

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7 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

How about making enemies affected by it (rather than killed by it) drop health orbs on death.  That way you don't have to kill with it to get the health orb benefit.

That would be really nice for smite I think

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2 hours ago, Teloch said:

Until oberon prime, at least. Then, you would likely replace him in cold blood

Yup.  My 6 forma oberon is goin straight into the trash can.

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1 hour ago, Vactro said:

 • Hallowed Ground: Altought it's nice to see the change from rectangle to arch, it would be way better if It were a circle with it's center where Oberon stands.

 • Passive: Get rid of the companion theme, it forces you to use them and it's not that nice even. I have two ideas: give him some sort of synergy with irradiated enemies to heal when killed or drop a health orb. The other is to give Oberon Vauban's passive because it fits better. Vauban could have innate ammo mutation or something (because the engineer theme and that).

 

The prime time demo had a roughly 210 degree arc for HG with only 145% range.  That means the base arc was about 145 degrees.  Max out your range and you'll have a full circle with a HUGE radius.

The companion passive is a terrible idea, and the health thing would work for him.  He already has a variant of it that simply doesn't scale.  If any enemy that he'd struck with a rad proc had a chance to drop a health orb on death, then his reckoning wouldn't be as useless.  Giving him vauban's passive would help reinforce his paladin role, but in all honestly vauban's passive sucks a lot since it relies on stationary allies in a highly mobile game.

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How about you give Oberon a little more utility : 

Hallowed Ground:

Allies affected by Hallowed ground gain + 25/50/75/100 % bleedout duration.

Renewal:

Contributes to resurrecting of bleeding out allies at 6.25/12.5/18.75/25% of normal speed (12.5/25/37.5/50% if affected by Hallowed Ground).

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8 hours ago, TheDefenestrater said:

Cosmetically, he draws from druid stuff, but every ability in his kit, apart from his cockeyed passive, is paladin.  He just does a really piss-poor job of it.

Yet that still doesn't mean it can't be flowers either or something to that degree.

Purifying flames or something as nightmare said? Maybe, but I agree that vegetation would be a nice addition and show off some of the work from the new remaster.

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5 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Err... Why would you....

...yeah good idea.

Allies. 5 AM while my eye hurt like a little... Hyekka, don't ask much from me :P

12 minutes ago, Naith said:

Yet that still doesn't mean it can't be flowers either or something to that degree.

Purifying flames or something as nightmare said? Maybe, but I agree that vegetation would be a nice addition and show off some of the work from the new remaster.

It still would not make much sense.

Oberon is some sort of purifying Paladin that is thematically linked to Earth (thus why DE said he had some druidy stuff going on), but he's supposed to be based on a white stag that appears on the Arturian legend as well as a knight (you can totally see that one by his distribution. He has armor pieces, he has helmet looking helms, he has the general outline of a knight).
 

Spoiler

cnjedFNl.jpg



The "roots" design wise are there because he was intertwined to Earth (he released on 11.5 alongside the new tileset, let us not forget), but he's always been advertised as a Paladin that is all about, how to encapsule it, duty?

Quote

Equally adept at healing friends or striking down the enemy, Oberon embodies the balance Tenno are sworn to uphold.

That's why I say they shouldn't add the vegetation thing there. He's all about purifying fire (that's how Hallowed Ground is right now), justice -- the Orokin's law enforcer.

Ever since they changed Vay Hek to contain Hydroid and he was gone from Earth though... Man, DE should totally recheck that.

Edited by NightmareT12
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28 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Allies. 5 AM while my eye hurt like a little... Hyekka, don't ask much from me :P

It still would not make much sense.

Oberon is some sort of purifying Paladin that is thematically linked to Earth (thus why DE said he had some druidy stuff going on), but he's supposed to be based on a white stag that appears on the Arturian legend as well as a knight (you can totally see that one by his distribution. He has armor pieces, he has helmet looking helms, he has the general outline of a knight).
 

  Reveal hidden contents

cnjedFNl.jpg



The "roots" design wise are there because he was intertwined to Earth (he released on 11.5 alongside the new tileset, let us not forget), but he's always been advertised as a Paladin that is all about, how to encapsule it, duty?

That's why I say they shouldn't add the vegetation thing there. He's all about purifying fire (that's how Hallowed Ground is right now), justice -- the Orokin's law enforcer.

Ever since they changed Vay Hek to contain Hydroid and he was gone from Earth though... Man, DE should totally recheck that.

Thankyou!  I'm really hoping that DE takes the knight-paladin and white stag motifs to the next level on his prime design.  People have been blinded by the feyarch skin and his dumb passive into thinking we've got a freakin Cenarius in Warframe.  But, the paladin concept is really where it's at and where DE should be aiming with this rework.

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58 minutes ago, TheDefenestrater said:

The prime time demo had a roughly 210 degree arc for HG with only 145% range.  That means the base arc was about 145 degrees.  Max out your range and you'll have a full circle with a HUGE radius.

I see, that's nice. I should check the gameplay when I get back home, thx

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1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

It still would not make much sense.

Oberon is some sort of purifying Paladin that is thematically linked to Earth (thus why DE said he had some druidy stuff going on), but he's supposed to be based on a white stag that appears on the Arturian legend as well as a knight (you can totally see that one by his distribution. He has armor pieces, he has helmet looking helms, he has the general outline of a knight).
 

  Reveal hidden contents

cnjedFNl.jpg

 

Funnily enough it would, simply due to the point(s) you yourself have raised.

Irrespective of what his description is or what part of his role is as a Paladin.

There's clearly still ties to Earth and nature, as such, again it would make some sense opposed to 'little'. 

Edit: However, on the flipside as a matter of balance, they could just add the Hallowed Ground as a feature when using the Feyarch deluxe instead. I just think that ever since someone has mentioned the visuals with HG it's reminded me of how I've always felt that the visuals for that ability and Smite were sort of lacking. I'd certainly never seen the HG effect as flames at all. It also looks slightly dated/opaque. So maybe it just needs to be improved upon.

I'd also say the same for Ember/fire effects too, some appear rather pixelated and/or poor in quality now.

Edited by Naith
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I still don't know why you insist on giving Oberon a passive connected to pets. Yes, it is a lot better than the previous one, but useless for people who don't run with pets but rather with sentinels. Why not give him something connected to radiation procs? Like leaving a radiation cloud after bullet jump? Or alternatively something connected to his healing, like for example having a shield when reviving. I bet there are plenty of ideas better than pet buffs.

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12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The most prominent feedback:

  • Renewal expires before the duration is up.

With this largely suggested feedback in mind, the team has made further tweaks to Oberon’s Renewal. As of right now, Oberon’s Renewal rework now also includes:

  • Renewal doesn’t stop healing when the target ally is at full Health. It will continue to heal as long as it is active.

Good.  This was one of the big things that hurt Renewal's effectiveness.

12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Smite: 

  • Damage from projectiles emitted from the enemy scales based on enemy level.

Using level for this feels a bit odd, but scaling damage is very nice.

12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Hallowed Ground: 

  • Hallowed Ground is now more of an 'arc' shape (Range Mods create a wider/longer arc).
  • Added a Status Chance that is affected by Strength Mods.
  • Adjusted damage and ranges.

Not sure on arc vs line.  I'll agree with others that having it be a circle centered on Oberon feels more fitting.

I don't know if adding a 3rd source of radiation procs (I assume that's the status being referred to?) to Oberon's kit is really useful.  As fun as causing Rad procs is, once you get a decent chunk of your enemies confused, there's limited benefit to having more of them.  One idea that comes to mind as a potentially interesting alternative to more rad procs is to have Hallowed Ground store the status effects it removes and prevents for allies, and inflict those on enemies.  (Will, obviously, need some care with balancing).

12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Renewal:

  • Increased casting animation speed.
  • Changed to an expanding wave of healing instead of a projectile. 
  • Energy drain starts once wave hits allies, not leading up to it.
  • Allies on Hallowed Ground get an Armor buff for the entire heal process. Once heal is finished the Armor buff is on a timer (affected by Duration).

Not sure what, if anything, the change from projectiles to a wave will do, or if it's just visual.  The change from draining before hitting allies to after seems reasonable.  How does the armor buff from this interact with the armor buff from being on Hallowed Ground?  Also, is this keeping the inverse duration thing?

12 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Reckoning:

  • Enemies with a Radiation Status Chance will now take bonus damage from Reckoning.
  • Enemies standing on Hallowed Ground will receive Armor debuffs (affected by Strength).

I like making this play off of Oberon's other abilities.  However, depending on the area of Hallowed Ground, and the strength of the armor debuff, I'm not sure it's going to do enough. (Ash, Frost, and Banshee can all completely remove armor with a single cast, possibly other frames as well).  Though, most people seem to have the least problem with this ability as it currently stands, so it probably doesn't need as much.

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14 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

 


We asked for your feedback and you delivered!

After compiling and discussing the prominent feedback, it was clear that our proposed Renewal rework was not enough to bring Oberon fresh justice.

The most prominent feedback:

  • Renewal expires before the duration is up.

With this largely suggested feedback in mind, the team has made further tweaks to Oberon’s Renewal. As of right now, Oberon’s Renewal rework now also includes:

  • Renewal doesn’t stop healing when the target ally is at full Health. It will continue to heal as long as it is active.

Your feedback is appreciated!

Thank you!!

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Along with the flat armour buffs/percentage debuffs, the Hallowed Ground Aura effect, and Hallowed Ground being a full circle around Oberon, I think that Smite should also be an AoE attack with the splash damage being based on the initial target damage, and that perhaps his Passive should be that enemies with Radiation Procs won't attack him.

 

14 hours ago, Naizuri said:

What does Rad procs have to do with paladins...

 

Paladins tend to work with Holy Light, Radiation is connected to Light, Holy Light tends to cleanse/purify things, Radiation can also do this.

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9 hours ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

SOMEONE SPITBALL IDEAS FOR BUFFS TO RECKONING BEFORE DIS IS OVER BECAUSE IT NEEDS SOMETHING TO MAKE IT FEEL LIKE A REAL ULTIMATE NOT UNDERPOWERED THANK YOU ALL

Enemies hit by reckoning have their capslock disabled permanently.

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Tap and hold mechanics for hallowed ground please.

Tap: as it is now

Hold: convert into a long lasting personal aura

Turn the current exploding hallowed ground into the base ability and allow its damage to scale with duration - more duration gives more damage.

Give hallowed ground a new augment please

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Love the smite change.

I feel like hallowed ground would be more useful if it had some defensive utility aside from the armor buff. Why not make it a sortve area denial ability, with a chance at fearing enemies that come inside? It'd fit with the paladin theme, as a Turn Evil/Undead ability. Definitely would like to change hallowed ground to a radial ability, instead of a cone. 

If the inverse scaling on renewal was fixed, I'll love this ability now.

I still feel like reckoning is just lacking... something. It never felt like it fit with the rest of the kit for me, though it did feel awesome pancaking enemies to the ground. Not sure what to do with it.

 

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@[DE]Megan

 

Alrighty then, this thread has exploded and I"m honestly not sure what if anything else will be done as tweaks. However as this is probably the last chance I have of making contributions I may as well chip everything into the ring for one last roll of the dice. I've had a chance to do some thinking.I understand why Hallowed Ground is the shape it is now. Basically think of it like a radioactive twin to Frost's icewave. Another power that's conal shaped and (with an augment) does an enemy debuff. With that said

Smite: We were shown a power build and Smite wasn't facerolling mid 30s Grineer (who are weak to radiaton.) THey were dying but I'm not looking at what was on screen so much as 'what is a non-rage/Intinsify Oberon going to do? Otherwise I like the visual redesgn, and I look forward to actually using the skill instead of reckoning spam.

Hallowed Ground: Everyone and their mother is calling for it to be radial. I can understand why, but at the same time full radial encourages a stationary approach, and 'oh oberon's encouraging people to sit still on this carpet' is one of the chief complaints.   I see this new larger hallowed ground being more 'oh that's an incoming wave of enemies. use this to get them to start fighting eachother so I can keep pressure off me so I can focus on the big units and not get swarmed.' I'm not a huge fan of 'the percentage chance of it causing radiation procs is affected by power strength, but if at base it isn't too low (like fifty fifty chance of causing rad procs) I'd be fine with it.

Renewal: I love the fact it won't stop when heal reaches full health at targets now. Still no word on if it heals allies/companions/defensive targets and to me that is very important, and until I get an answer I am assuming it won't in spite of the new wave like behavior. Speaking of why is the wave so slow? People can't bullet jump dodge it but they can outrun it. Also with Hallowed Ground Synergy would it be seen as too broken if Renewal gives armor buffs if Oberon casts renewal from Hallowed Ground as opposed to everyone else being on hallowed ground? Maybe I'm thinking too much 'hallowed ground is this tiny tiny stripe nobody can fit on' and people actually being on HG works now? But the way Im suggesting sems more consistant (and if need be have Renewal CONSUME the hallowed ground to give armor.) Additionally what is Renewal's relationship to Duration? Currently it is this weird backward 'you get more heal with less duration' business.

Reckoning: Does. It. Still. Cause. Radiation? That is the big question. I wish to know this. Everything else seems very solid. The biggest problem  is it might need some visual/sound tweaks to feel more substantial gien it is his 4.

Passive: It's... Fine. I can live with it. However something else? Something that Synergizes with what Oberon's overal kit seems to have as theme (radiation.) Like anything dealing with radiation would be nice. Example being 'If an enemy is killed while suffering radiation if it does not drop anything on death it has a fifty fifty chance at spawning a health orb (if organic) or an energy orb(if Robotic.) Meaning if an enemy diceroll says a drop will happen (credit, loot, whatever) Passive does nothing. If enemy diceroll says no drop happens Oberon's passive does a coin flip on if it will drop an orb based on what type it is. Maybe that'll be too OP, but that is the best example i can think of that isn't completely bonkers (damage reduction if an enemy suffers radiation, innate armor stripping, etc.)

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Considering how long Limbo's Cataclysm scaling got to stay, I doubt Oberon's Smite will either scale well or stay that way long if it initially launches so. I think one of the biggest criticisms of Hallowed Ground, outside its low damage, not currently being able to status, low armor bonus, and radiation damage, is the fact that while it is effected by range currently, its a stationary and thin strip of radiation damage. that in a game with most players running around like headless chickens or bouncing around like Daedalus enhanced monkey acrobats is not effective. Making Hallowed Ground a radial aura like effect similar to Elemental Ward but with more range has been suggested before as this would allow a more mobile enhancement and would work well into both Oberon's Paladin theme and the proposed reworks.

I must reiterate the question posted earlier about whether or not Reckoning will keep its current secondary effects in addition to its proposed rework buffs; particularly radiation status as the move has proposed to be changed to care about whether the effected enemy is irradiated or not. This proposed rework seems to have a heavy focus on duration and taking away from range's value. Will Reckoning and co that retain their normal range boosts be keeping their normal low range values or be buffed a little more like the last rework where Oberon got his armor boosted to 150 and Reckoning boosted from 8 meters?

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honestly not impressed by this DE. Yes, you've acknowledged player feedback on this but this is probably the Most obvious and asked for change to Oberon and should have been included in the first draft. 

This is Very much still a WIP revisit. Other issues still exist with renewal that have been stated multiple times in this thread, the suggested passive is also utter trash. 

The changes to smite, reckoning and hallowed ground are all good - but we still need questions answered pertaining to each. 

 

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