Oberon Revisited: Prime Time Surprise and Next Steps!

[Jochcio]

I have a question: are enemies killed by reckoning still going to drop health orbs? We have so few abilities that can reliability spawn health orbs that it would be a shame if we would lose one of them. Maybe you could make it into one of his synergies: enemies that stand on hallowed ground that are hit by smite have a x% chance to drop health orbs. 

[BAY35]

What is this? A rework that DOESN'T include some kind of nerf?! And it's for Oberon?! Is it Christmas already?!

[LogaMC1995]

5 minutes ago, BAY35 said:

What is this? A rework that DOESN'T include some kind of nerf?! And it's for Oberon?! Is it Christmas already?!

I assume the Renewal change to wave is a nerf. I prefer the healing orbs that moves towards allies. 

[KittyDarkling]

Looks good on paper, but I'm really concerned about Renewal. It use to have endless range, which ever since the trinity nerf, made Oberon have a useful niche as a long-range healer.

Edited April 26, 2017 by KittyDarkling
spelling

[Trickst3rGawd]

rework was trash lol. 

[leadwolf1]

PLEASE TAKE THIS INTO CONSIDERATION

 

ok high, I hope you read this and use something from my opinion, ok , over all looks pretty good, but this still does not address oberons ability not to last in higher missions. unless scale is off the charts. then you will have players complain and you will have to change it again, so could you increase his health, I have 4 forma on my obie and to do it justice with anything else I have no additional health or shields and I do not see room to even replace it for one. seems to me you are trying to make all abilities go together and work well that requires modding with efficiency , duration, range and strength. no room for health or any other self boost mod. and  just going by what I am reading up top of page. oh the heal overtime does not help if the heal you put out does less then the damage from one shot from the normal enemies. kind of makes it useless compared to trinity prime. I do not see numbers so the heal needs to be right for higher end game play. (example enemy does 50 damage a shot you give out 25 a tic / not good when you get hit multiple shots) raising the initial heal to a substantial number and then being able to modify it even more with mods. ok so I just read more , so renewal is going to work like neckros desecrate you have to turn it off or it stays running or on always taking energy to heal. would be good as long as it does not increase with the amount of healing it is doing and is one flat rate. What I mean by that is  no cost to be on if everyone is full and if 1 or all 4 players need health it is one flat rate and not per player.what happens if it is too much for oberon to handle and all energy is drained( example. inaros  sandstorms into enemies taking hundreds of damage a second) even though he can heal does not mean he does not take damage to health to regen energy). leaves him very vulnerable, any way of putting in a auto stop at 60 so if needed obie can still use his ability to get out of a jam. so for reckoning the only thing I see is enemies effected by radiation will take increased damage. this ability is useless unless it will be multipliable in damage dealt  while having radiation damage on them. then for the use of the mod slot and all the energy for spamming the 4th ability using all that energy while still having renewal taking it as well.  I can kill and get out of a jam, other wise just crowd control to knock them down at higher end game play.

SO where is this radiation coming from. from the looks no ability does it. so it is a syndicate mod which takes up a slot or a weapon that does radiation. do I understand this correctly. So to summarize it .I would like to see an all around frame it gives some support as well as can battle without being too squishy and so strong no one want to run with the player, a really good balance.

THANK YOU

 

 

 

 

[MirageKnight]

3 hours ago, LogaMC1995 said:

I assume the Renewal change to wave is a nerf. I prefer the healing orbs that moves towards allies. 

Yeah - it's a nerf alright. The wave only extends out to 36m or so with maxed Stretch, so forget about extending bleedout or healing anyone that's some distance from you. Oberon is no longer a long range healer. Despite that, it's nice that Renewal continues to apply even if the target is fully healed and the armor buff applied to a target that's on Hallowed Ground is extremely helpful to squishier 'Frames: It's a flat value that can go up to 335 - possibly higher with the right build. Said buff is only temporary but it does help.

With regard to the other changes...

Smite is decidedly better than before, but the secondary orbs could probably use a bit more oomph.

Hallowed Ground is MUCH improved. Covers a significantly larger area (240 degree arc and a distance of about 16m with maxed Stretch), does better DOT and you can still cast multiple instances of it. It's interactions with Renewal and Reckoning are also welcome. Anyone continuing to suggest that HG should be mobile is asking for nothing more than a massive nerf that would also strip away some of Oberon's uniqueness.

Reckoning is a bit better than before and works well if enemies are on Hallowed Ground.

With regard to Oberon himself...he could really benefit from an armor buff. 150 is rather low for a 'Frame that's supposed to be up front and center and directly supporting other 'Frames - especially weaker ones. Something along the lines of at least 250 without maxed Steel Fiber would do the trick to make him a bit more reasonably durable.

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by MirageKnight

[redeyedtreefrog]

11 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

-snip-

I'll do this in reverse: I take it you haven't played oberon much, because even before the rework, both smite and renewal would ALWAYS proc radiation, and now, post-rework, hallowed ground can also proc radiation, but only at a medium chance/tick.

As for reckoning, you've hit the nail on the head. It's not a damage ability by any means, or at least, it isn't if you're going to be going past star-chart levels. However, with innate radiation procs, knockdown(exposing enemies to ground finishers), and armor stripping if used on hallowed ground, it's a really good soft CC ability.

Renewal does NOT work like nekros' desecrate. That was a community concept(one which, for the record, I do not agree with). It instead works like nova's molecular prime. (Also for the record, I don't like that either. I thought renewal's delivery mechanism was perfectly fine as-is, but I digress).

In the category of renewal: the heals over time aren't meant to be an invincibility serum (you could possibly use it as one, but only at the cost of maxed strength and therefore low efficiency), and even if it did, the definition of high-level content is one-shot damage numbers from enemies. You can't regenerate health if you're dead. Making the regeneration incredibly high-powered is a moot point to me. The rework also gave a bonus to armor if an enemy is affected by renewal while standing on hallowed ground. The buff is 200 armor base, and appears to stack.

As for the proposed health buff: I guarantee that DE is holding out on that until oberon prime releases in order to promote sales for him. That's pure business. Personally, I'd like to see energy, health, and/or armor to see a buff in oberon prime. If shields are buffed, I'm going to be incredibly disappointed, since I often run oberon with a decaying dragon key in order to make better use of rage anyways.

[OxideNation]

Been testing a lot with the re work and it feels "meh". Still missing a lotttttt

[OxideNation]

1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

Oh it could have been a LOT better, as is Heal's funky relationship to duration still exists, making hela bad as a preemptive regen ability (though they did stop it stopping at full health which does give it some use.) Also Smite and Reckoning still seem to do their pre-'rework' damage. Worst of all is on my toaster box even with settings turned on it's HARDER to see oberon's Hallowed Ground.

 

However he is better. A little.

I agree. He's just going back on the shelf now. They rushed out this rework in my opinion. Sorry DE I love you guys but it's true. I'm honestly upset that the re work was already released it didn't even get a visual update (HG) which it was supposed to get.

[Tesseract7777]

53 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

-snip-

 

 

 

Just wanted to comment that they rarely ever significantly raise the stats of vanilla versions of frames when reworking/buffing them, etc. I am not sure they ever have, actually. However, there is a very high chance Oberon Prime will be next, and I would hope they will give him more health/armor and maybe some more energy base as well. 

[thewhitepanda1205]

Great job with the rework guys! :)

The tweaks are amazing even though nothing major really changed.

I can actually tank level 90s right now with my build. :0 :)

Just 2 things:

1) Is Smite still doing bad, but slightly less bad damage, the extent of the scaling for his 1 because I thought that Smite would chip away more than 1/16 of a level 90 enemy's health with the changes.

2) I think Hallowed Ground's visuals are bugged. I run on low particle settings and right now, his magical carpet is invisible for me.

Great Job again, and hopefully you address at least my 2nd point.

[redeyedtreefrog]

Yeah, I've gotta say that smite still sits pretty bad from a scaling perspective. Don't get me wrong, smite still works well for a 1st ability, but the only time where I really noticed smite being "good", was when I was fighting the juggernaut behemoth in some runs for atlas parts with a buddy. That said, I was only running a 115% strength build at the time, so if you modded for strength I guess it could do fairly well.

Otherwise, I liked all the changes, but I'm officially not sold on renewal. it looks much nicer, visually, but I would have much rather kept the old projectile functionality. Also, I haven't done real testing on this, but it appears that renewal's bleedout reduction can no longer be applied to downed targets. What gives? When we complained that limiting renewal's range would strip much of renewal's effectiveness as a bleedout timer buff, we were sort of aiming for the change to be rolled back... not for part of renewal's utility to be cut.

[MirageKnight]

22 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Just wanted to comment that they rarely ever significantly raise the stats of vanilla versions of frames when reworking/buffing them, etc. I am not sure they ever have, actually.

Yeah I know...One can hope though, eh?

Quote

However, there is a very high chance Oberon Prime will be next, and I would hope they will give him more health/armor and maybe some more energy base as well. 

Agreed - been looking forward to seeing him Primed as well as the Magistar.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

question from someone not on pc, does the armor debuff have diminishing returns? does it stack with cp or effect after? 

 

 

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

things that i think need to be fixed:

- raise base % damage done or don't divide damage among the orbs

- reverse the duration effect on renewal OR have phoenix renewal be effected by the armor buff

- increase base armor debuff, from his 4th, % to 40 and OR make it to where the armor debuff will stack( 2 uses of his 4th = 40% armor defuff at base)

[NightmareT12]

Hallowed Ground doesn't look like flames anymore. RIP.

Also, I can't freaking believe you guys took out the armor buff out of the HG because of the renewal synergy. Why? :(

[LokiTheCondom]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

Hallowed Ground doesn't look like flames anymore. RIP.

Also, I can't freaking believe you guys took out the armor buff out of the HG because of the renewal synergy. Why? :(

THEY DID WHAT!?

You mean to tell me they removed Hallowed Ground's independent armor buff just so they can make a synergy between his abilities? This is redundant af!

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

Hallowed Ground doesn't look like flames anymore. RIP.

Also, I can't freaking believe you guys took out the armor buff out of the HG because of the renewal synergy. Why? :(

if they are just going to do that they need to just make it straight damage reduction instead of armor

[NightmareT12]

37 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

THEY DID WHAT!?

You mean to tell me they removed Hallowed Ground's independent armor buff just so they can make a synergy between his abilities? This is redundant af!

Yup.

However, I must say that for Oberon himself this means more armor. Same Strength: 300 flat armor vs old ~25% increase.

[NightmareT12]

So sorry for the double post but... I am disappointed in this rework. I seriously thought, pre-rework, I understood Oberon's position in what DE released and it simply aged badly.

I am now confused because... I just don't know where we are anymore.

• Smite: A CC ability that deals damage. The CC is still there, the damage is improved through scaling but needs further tweaking because it hardly feels impactful right now. Something here doesn't add up, but the idea is the right one.
   
• Hallowed Ground: It lost the armor buff because Renewal now gives the armor. Maybe have a damage reduction if you are standing on the ground would have been a good thing (nothing too big, but scaling with Power Strength still (say 15%, at 200% 30%, at 300% 45%?). Seriously, consider this, as right now this ability is just a status clearance in/out for allies.
   
• Renewal: I like all the interactions BUT it still has the same issues. In fact, it has a new issue: I can't heal people across rooms now. WHY. Seriously. I just played a Void Survival, there was a guy a bit away from me, and because this has no projectiles that travel anymore I never could heal people in those distances. The big issue was delivery to far away players, and it's not fixed. I have nothing against the healing I guess? It heals a big chunk amount on as little time as possible with an initial value, just as before. The negative scaling helps healing bigger quantities and it doesn't stop at full health. Wouldn't mind a bleedout interaction here, myself.
  
  Get that wave out, give me back the old delivery method and increase travel time the more distance it travels -- AKA give an acceleration. Right now I'm a worse Trinity for this :(
   
• Reckoning: Needs some more damage love, but the rest is fine.

 

Seriously consider the above. Oberon was the only Warframe that could heal you without distance being an issue, at the expense of a different healing mechanic to differentiate from Trinity, and the Hallowed Ground armor buff was there to incentivize people to stay on it, as well as to stay close to a Defense, Mobile Defense objective. Damage Reduction (a low one, so it's not over the top) could be a good thing here.

And please, his base armor needs to go up. Seriously. I don't see why he can't use a higher value, even Excalibur has a higher one? :/

Edited April 27, 2017 by NightmareT12

[Urlan]

2 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

So sorry for the double post but... I am disappointed in this rework. I seriously thought, pre-rework, I understood Oberon's position in what DE released and it simply aged badly.

I am now confused because... I just don't know where we are anymore.

• Smite: A CC ability that deals damage. The CC is still there, the damage is improved through scaling but needs further tweaking because it hardly feels impactful right now. Something here doesn't add up, but the idea is the right one.
   
• Hallowed Ground: It lost the armor buff because Renewal now gives the armor. Maybe have a damage reduction if you are standing on the ground would have been a good thing (nothing too big, but scaling with Power Strength still (say 15%, at 200% 30%, at 300% 45%?). Seriously, consider this, as right now this ability is just a status clearance in/out for allies.
   
• Renewal: I like all the interactions BUT it still has the same issues. In fact, it has a new issue: I can't heal people across rooms now. WHY. Seriously. I just played a Void Survival, there was a guy a bit away from me, and because this has no projectiles that travel anymore I never could heal people in those distances. The big issue was delivery to far away players, and it's not fixed. I have nothing against the healing I guess? It heals a big chunk amount on as little time as possible with an initial value, just as before. The negative scaling helps healing bigger quantities and it doesn't stop at full health. Wouldn't mind a bleedout interaction here, myself.
  
  Get that wave out, give me back the old delivery method and increase travel time the more distance it travels -- AKA give an acceleration. Right now I'm a worse Trinity for this :(
   
• Reckoning: Needs some more damage love, but the rest is fine.

 

Seriously consider the above. Oberon was the only Warframe that could heal you without distance being an issue, at the expense of a different healing mechanic to differentiate from Trinity, and the Hallowed Ground armor buff was there to incentivize people to stay on it, as well as to stay close to a Defense, Mobile Defense objective. Damage Reduction (a low one, so it's not over the top) could be a good thing here.

And please, his base armor needs to go up. Seriously. He was the highest armor Warframe back in the day, and I don't see why he can't use a higher value.

I wouldn't say highest armor, Oberon used to have 65 armor same as Excalibur did at the time, it was the average basically. With Oberon's first boost, he gained the 150 armor, more life,  and various pumps to his move-set, but as what happens when the balanced warframe gets buffed, enemies then got boosted a week or two later. A little later, due to the other warframes being found to be too fragile in this setting, several were given boosted armor, Excalibur and Frost being the biggest examples; from 65 to 225 for Excalibur and 155 to 300.

I would totally go for more armor on Oberon, but its been a long journey for him. Perhaps his Prime when it comes will have that enhancement?

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Urlan said:

I wouldn't say highest armor, Oberon used to have 65 armor same as Excalibur did at the time, it was the average basically. With Oberon's first boost, he gained the 150 armor, more life,  and various pumps to his move-set, but as what happens when the balanced warframe gets buffed, enemies then got boosted a week or two later. A little later, due to the other warframes being found to be too fragile in this setting, several were given boosted armor, Excalibur and Frost being the biggest examples; from 65 to 225 for Excalibur and 155 to 300.

I would totally go for more armor on Oberon, but its been a long journey for him. Perhaps his Prime when it comes will have that enhancement?

Woopsie. Thanks for the history refresh, I edited that one out :P My point was exactly this. Excalibur is an up close fighter and needs the armor to survive, so it would only make sense Oberon, who is a Paladin, meaning he should be a tankier Warframe than average without being a complete tank himself, would have a close value, correct? So yeah. I always thought 225-250 base for Oberon and for the Prime something like 300 or a bit more would have been fine.

[Urlan]

49 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

Woopsie. Thanks for the history refresh, I edited that one out :P My point was exactly this. Excalibur is an up close fighter and needs the armor to survive, so it would only make sense Oberon, who is a Paladin, meaning he should be a tankier Warframe than average without being a complete tank himself, would have a close value, correct? So yeah. I always thought 225-250 base for Oberon and for the Prime something like 300 or a bit more would have been fine.

Totally agree to be honest.

[paixdamien]

went MOT to test.  around 20+ mins im getting 1-2 shot even with 300+ armor buff from renewal + steel fiber lel sure it was better than before but still the paladin cant even tank. and the problem that you and your teammates have to be in the HG to get the armor buffs is still there. oberon wont even get his own armor buff if you cast renewal in midair lmao