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Can anything Match the damage of a Hek


(PSN)KwGeek77
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So one of my steady, always in use weapons is My Hek, an I think that it's fair to say that many other players use it quite a bit too as well.

Now I know that many like doing Crit or status builds for their weapons, But I like doing pure damage.

an I just did a build with the aid of Warframe builder, seeing as I don't have all the mods right now to toy around with different Mod combinations.

But I did this build. 

Spoiler

C-RqQcyXgAUGlLb.jpg:large

  Now this is a 4 forma build, with maxed out mod's and No Riven. an while I think riven mods are a great addition to the game, giving some of the lesser used weapons a buff, the fact is with riven mods, there is no constant, as each riven and it's stats are random once unvailed, an no two players will have the exact same riven. (or odd are highly against this likely hood, maybe with enough rerolls, but that can get costly)

But to get back on topic, if you look at the Puncture damage for this build, you will see that the damage is up in the ten thousands, doing 20,285 per shot. Now I understand that damage is split up between each Pellet, with each shot shooting out 29 pellets. 

Now I have not experiences the effects of the added spread you get from the addition of the Vicious Spread mod, but I know that the Hek has the tightest cone of all the shotguns in the game, with maybe the exception of guns like the Convectrix (it's a beam weapon and a shotgun, weird but okay) and the Phage, (again a beam and shotgun)

Now I have taken down some pretty Mean enemies with my Hek, (not using the build above, but close to it) an I almost always take it into a sortie, unless one of mission has the Enemy Physical Enhancement Vs Puncture, then I take something else.

what I'm asking is, " is there any primary or even secondary in the game that can match the raw damage of the Hek?"
 
any while I want the Hek to stay the same, an I'm hoping that they don't nerf it because of this post.

What do you have to say? 

 

 

  

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Heres a build you can do with a Tigris prime, cause a pictures worth a thousand words.

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Tigris_Prime/t_30_22200000_167-7-3-178-1-5-190-2-5-191-5-3-264-6-3-330-4-3-357-3-3-482-0-10_482-7-178-8-190-5-357-7-330-7-191-7-264-7-167-9/en/2-0-96

I dunno about you but I think 125k at the expense of 2 forma is pretty good.

Edited by Sakatchi
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2 minutes ago, Baterial said:

opticor :D

Okay fair point, but tried the Opticor, an while it is a beast in it's own right, the Charging of it can make it a bit of a cumbersome weapon to use. 

Now while I have not played with a Opticor with a potato, I have learned there are two types of build that is common for it, the speed charge build and a damage build.

Seeing as if you want to play the Opticor, if you do a  full speed charge build, you are using up, 4 slots right away, to up your fire-rate, to get the charge down to under 1 sec.

but at what cost to the damage output. because to get to a charge of 0.893, you have to use Vile Acceleration, which put a negative on you damage modifier.  So with the Opticor, you either have to go with quick charging or damage. but it depends on you play style too of course. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Sakatchi said:

Heres a build you can do with a Tigris prime, cause a pictures worth a thousand words.

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Tigris_Prime/t_30_22200000_167-7-3-178-1-5-190-2-5-191-5-3-264-6-3-330-4-3-357-3-3-482-0-10_482-7-178-8-190-5-357-7-330-7-191-7-264-7-167-9/en/2-0-96

I dunno about you but I think 125k at the expense of 2 forma is pretty good.

And the most fun part is not even the damage. Its looking at that heavy target just bleeding to death before you.

(btw why corrosive and not viral as you use the status build?)

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I have did some playing around with a Tigris, and have looked at the stats for each of the Tigris variants, an this is a play style preference thing, I don't like how the Tigris has to be reloaded after each and every shot. I dislike how after every shot, you have to reload, sure it's says you have a magazine of 2, but they don't tell you that you, for each trigger pull, you unload your full magazine. An while they do make the Tigris have one of the fastest reload in the games, with the base reload being 1.8 seconds and the Sancti Tigris being faster at 1.5 seconds, after mod's you can boost it to being 0.81 seconds, 

an while the Hek has a magazine of 4, you don't need to reload after each shot.

the way I see it, with any of the Tigeis weapons, you are spending 50% of a firefight, reloading. 

with a hek, you are maybe reloading 25% of the time during a firefight. (but this is a wild guess, an I have no real math to back up this option)

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The Hek is far from the nerf zone. Although it packs good raw damage, it's just that. Raw damage, which doesn't scale well. The Vaykor Hek scales well because of crit, but even that will hit against armor faster than a multitude of other weapons.

Status Strun Wraith/Tigris Prime will scale multiple times higher. Heck, a status/crit Riven Braton Prime will scale higher.

Also, pure Puncture damage is pretty meh. You're losing out on massive damage bonus from elementals. Paper DPS is cool and all, but Corrosive damage is going to be multiple times better (as well as giving better overall damage).

Honestly, a better question (in the realm of high-end weapons) is "Can the Hek match the damage of anything else?".

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Tigris prime with 100% stats build, and you get 21k slash, 14k radiation and 14k viral, and any monster that apear in front of you: gone in 1 click. The only "problem" is that, tigris prime,  only has 2 bullets (sometimes you can save reloads, since 1 bullet is more than enought to kill, use both bullets is a "overkill" most of the times).

P.S.: this overkill build HAS to be 100% stats, not 99%, it HAS to be 100%

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29 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

And the most fun part is not even the damage. Its looking at that heavy target just bleeding to death before you.

(btw why corrosive and not viral as you use the status build?)

Because when you get past about level 60 you'll want your 100% status proc weapons to shoot corrosive. And because of the limited shots, the Tigris prime is best used as a Heavy destroyer.

I think if you're going to run viral its better put on Aksteleto primes, cause of their high fire rate damage and fast reload.

Edited by Sakatchi
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57 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

100% Status Kohm > EE.

Ain't nothing it can't eat in a few shots.

I do like the Kohm, an while a 100% status, sound good, I like dead enemies over ones that could still engage me once the status proc wares off.

an the kohm seems to max out at 500 slash damage,  

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15 minutes ago, Sakatchi said:

Because when you get past about level 60 you'll want your 100% status proc weapons to shoot corrosive. And because of the limited shots, the Tigris prime is best used as a Heavy destroyer.

I think if you're going to run viral its better put on Aksteleto primes, cause of their high fire rate damage and fast reload.

Well Its more because the Tigris prime status build is not build to shred armor. Its build to ignore it. And Viral halfes the health so the bleed procs can do the rest.

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41 minutes ago, (PS4)KwGeek77 said:

Vile Acceleration, which put a negative on you damage modifier.  So with the Opticor, you either have to go with quick charging or damage. but it depends on you play style too of course. 

It's not like the -15% of vile acceleration is applied last like faction damage mods. Using it with serration basically means you have +150% bonus to base damage instead of +165%, with something that does as much damage as the opticor, you'll never notice the difference.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)KwGeek77 said:

I do like the Kohm, an while a 100% status, sound good, I like dead enemies over ones that could still engage me once the status proc wares off.

an the kohm seems to max out at 500 slash damage,  

Slash procs ignore shields and armor, that's the benefit of a 100% status build on a slash weapon (especially shotguns) try it before you knock it.

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18 minutes ago, portistafcp said:

Tigris prime with 100% stats build, and you get 21k slash, 14k radiation and 14k viral, and any monster that apear in front of you: gone in 1 click. The only "problem" is that, tigris prime,  only has 2 bullets (sometimes you can save reloads, since 1 bullet is more than enought to kill, use both bullets is a "overkill" most of the times).

P.S.: this overkill build HAS to be 100% stats, not 99%, it HAS to be 100%

Before equipping multishot if I may add.

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while Shotguns are quite Overpowered, a lot of Weapons can compete for Damage with your Hek since you're using a Loadout that results in poor Damage.

no combined Elemental means your Damage is awful, Physical Mods are extremely situational, et Cetera.
Vicious Spread means you're just going to be missing with most of your Damage.

here's an example:
Lhe7qsL.png

this would be much better for your Hek, an easy estimate of about double the Damage per Shot as you'll have with your Loadout.
exactly what Elementals to use pending what the Enemies you're fighting are weak to as always, Et Cetera.
you could always swap out the last Elemental for Accelerated Blast if you too feel that you desire that bump to Rate of Fire. same deal with Ammo Stock, as that has been popular as well.

 

anyways, Crits IS raw Damage - just better Raw Damage.
with the Powercreep in Warframe, there are plenty of Weapons that match or outperform the Damage of Hek.

listing off all of them would be tiresome, so just some good examples as aforemtioned, all of these are either competitive or exceed Hek in Damage per Shot/DPS and such. with keeping in mind that you're only interested in Damage, and not Status. (which i find strange as Status can be useful for Killing and making it easier to Kill but w/e)

  • Vaykor Hek (direct upgrade to Hek, only thing it's not as good at is Status, but you don't even want Status)
  • Sancti Tigris
  • Lanka
  • Rubico
  • Vectis Prime
  • Drakgoon
  • Kohm
  • Opticor
  • Javlok/Ferrox
  • Bows (except Daikyu and Mutalist Cernos)
  • Soma Series
  • Sybaris Series
  • Tenora
  • Buzlok
  • Tonkor
  • Zarr
  • Kulstar
  • Lex Prime
  • Marelok Series
  • Pandero (also Vasto Prime but Pandero is Powercreep on Vasto Prime so)
  • Brakk
  • Euphoria Euphona Prime
  • Pyrana
  • Akstiletto Series

among some others.

1 hour ago, (PS4)KwGeek77 said:

you have to use Vile Acceleration, which put a negative on you damage modifier.  So with the Opticor, you either have to go with quick charging or damage.

Vile Acceleration reduces your Damage per Shot by ~4%, it's objectively irrelevant. it's a direct upgrade to Speed Trigger.

26 minutes ago, (PS4)KwGeek77 said:

I do like the Kohm, an while a 100% status, sound good, I like dead enemies over ones that could still engage me once the status proc wares off.
an the kohm seems to max out at 500 slash damage

they won't still be there when the Status wears off - Kohm has very high Damage Output, plus lots of Status Application.

Edited by taiiat
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3 hours ago, (PS4)KwGeek77 said:

I do like the Kohm, an while a 100% status, sound good, I like dead enemies over ones that could still engage me once the status proc wares off.

an the kohm seems to max out at 500 slash damage,  

The 100% status is more for forgetting that armor even exists. Haven't run the numbers in a while but after all the changes to it (as in current state) Kohm had the highest sustained dps in the game by a large margin (pushing near 100k full spool) and it's all raw damage. The riven I have for it simply brings it to near 200% multi shot with hell's, 100% status with 2-3 (forget if I needed that extra fire damage status) 60/60 status mods, +95% reserve and -90% critical chance. Have yet to find anything (even a jug) below 140 that could last more than a second or two once that beast is at full spool.

Edited by DarcnyssWolfe
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9 hours ago, (PS4)KwGeek77 said:

So one of my steady, always in use weapons is My Hek, an I think that it's fair to say that many other players use it quite a bit too as well.

Now I know that many like doing Crit or status builds for their weapons, But I like doing pure damage.

an I just did a build with the aid of Warframe builder, seeing as I don't have all the mods right now to toy around with different Mod combinations.

But I did this build. 

  Hide contents

C-RqQcyXgAUGlLb.jpg:large

  Now this is a 4 forma build, with maxed out mod's and No Riven. an while I think riven mods are a great addition to the game, giving some of the lesser used weapons a buff, the fact is with riven mods, there is no constant, as each riven and it's stats are random once unvailed, an no two players will have the exact same riven. (or odd are highly against this likely hood, maybe with enough rerolls, but that can get costly)

But to get back on topic, if you look at the Puncture damage for this build, you will see that the damage is up in the ten thousands, doing 20,285 per shot. Now I understand that damage is split up between each Pellet, with each shot shooting out 29 pellets. 

Now I have not experiences the effects of the added spread you get from the addition of the Vicious Spread mod, but I know that the Hek has the tightest cone of all the shotguns in the game, with maybe the exception of guns like the Convectrix (it's a beam weapon and a shotgun, weird but okay) and the Phage, (again a beam and shotgun)

Now I have taken down some pretty Mean enemies with my Hek, (not using the build above, but close to it) an I almost always take it into a sortie, unless one of mission has the Enemy Physical Enhancement Vs Puncture, then I take something else.

what I'm asking is, " is there any primary or even secondary in the game that can match the raw damage of the Hek?"
 
any while I want the Hek to stay the same, an I'm hoping that they don't nerf it because of this post.

What do you have to say? 

 

 

  

Have you tried the tigris prime?

22k slash and 42k blast?

 

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Yes, and there's a lot. I assume we're shooting a non moving big enemy with lots of HP but no Armor at all, no elemental/physical resistance nor weakness, which guns can kill the enemy faster.

First, we have Sancti Tigris. The top damage dealer back in old days.

Status Tigris Prime, the current top damage dealer, the beast, the armor stripper. Its presence shows to community how status shotgun are very powerful. But on Tigris Prime it's another level. Its high base damage with primary Slash type damage allows it to deal high dot to enemy.

Or, Raw damage Tigris Prime. A little waste to Tigris Prime's potential, but definitely upgrade of Sancti Tigris.

Vaykor Hek. My favourite shotgun, also another beast. Base on my previous testing in simulacrum, it perform almost similar results with status Tigris Prime in term of killing, even slightly better. But it will still falloff when enemy have higher armor scaling.

And lastly, Hek. Yes, Hek, but not the same build as you shown. The build you shown only focus on one damage type, Puncture.

In realistic, different enemies have different type of Damage resistance, despite the modifier from Sorties. Although you mentioned Hek do well to most enemies, that's because most shotguns have super high base damage, but you actually doing lower damage compare to other shotguns that is well modded. You might noticed with this build, you do a lot of damage to Grineer, but lesser damage to Corpus. That's because Corpus' shields have resistance to Puncture damage, which will lower the damage received. In order to deal highest damage, you need to learn the each faction of enemies' weakness. The most suggested damage type to certain enemy faction are,

Grineer = Radiation + Viral/Toxic, Corpus = Magnetic + Toxic/Gas, Corrupted/Infested = Corrosive + Ice/Fire

That hasn't complete yet, using correct damage type against certain enemies doesn't ensure you able to deal highest potential damage, especially against armored enemies. Armor will reduce certain amount of incoming damage regardless the damage type. At low to mid level, it's not a big problem, but thanks to enemies' level scaling, the higher the enemies' level, the higher their HP, Shield, Damage and Armor. Until a certain level, the enemies' armor will high enough to reduce 99% of incoming damage. At this point, you'll need a way to remove their armor. Which is why status shotguns like Tigris Prime or Kohm is highly praised, because it can remove those armor in short amount of time, while other non status weapons pray they can kill that armored target with the remaining ammo.

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17 hours ago, (PS4)KwGeek77 said:

I dislike how after every shot, you have to reload, sure it's says you have a magazine of 2, but they don't tell you that you, for each trigger pull, you unload your full magazine.

If you pull the trigger and release, you'll fire both barrels.  If you hold the trigger you'll only shoot once.  Then let go of the trigger to shoot the other shot.  You can also manually reload while the trigger is held to not use the second shot.

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I haven't played around with warframe-builder that much but aren't those numbers bit misleading?

You have the crit damage box checked and your build only has 10% crit change so that really wouldn't be the real DPS.

If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

Edit: NVM, it does seem to add up.

Edited by (PS4)HSomDevil
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