How to fix Mag in 5 simple steps

[Jackviator]

1: Increase her energy pool to 125-150.

Probably the most obvious change that needs to be made; Mag is a heavy caster frame that relies on spamming her powers to survive, and yet she has the small energy pool of tankier frames like Rhino or Frost.

2: Make Pull a one-handed cast, adjust the ragdoll force on enemies to be more manageable/reliable, and change Greedy Pull to be more useful.

Making it a one-handed cast (that doesn't interrupt actions like reloading) would allow Mag to use it as a sort of "oh crap" button in situations such as having an empty clip as a Heavy Gunner walks around a corner unexpectedly. As for the force it puts on enemies, I'm pretty sure most Mag users have had enemies go flying miles behind them at one point or another; the force should be reduced to allow for greater control, to be able to use it to Pull enemies into Magnetize bubbles.

As for Greedy Pull, we all know it deserved the change it got, but frankly the aug is now pretty much useless. Let's change that. For example, it could have the effect of having the chance to Pull additional loot from enemies, in a fashion similar to Hydroid's Pilfering Swarm aug.

3: Increase the attraction on Magnetize to keep enemies in the center of the bubble, and allow Mag to detonate them at will.

The first part is pretty self-explanatory; enemies can (and will) simply waltz out of the Magnetize bubbles on a regular basis. Let's stop that happening. As for the second part, I think it would work well for Mag to detonate the Magnetize bubbles by using either Polarize or her 4 while inside the bubbles; it would give Mag a lot more control on when she wants to set off the Magnetize-nukes, because as it is it's unreliable to say the least, often exploding while there are no enemies around anymore.

4: Make Polarize scale as well as giving it a light CC effect on Infested. Finally, change Shield Transference to have an effect on all factions.

It really is that simple. The damage doesn't need to scale, just the armor-stripping and shield-negating. As-is, this non-scaling ability is almost useless past level 60ish. If it was based on a flat percentage instead of a set value, it would be useful at all levels. In addition, it should stun Infested target for 2-3 seconds upon hitting them. It's a rather short stun, but that's mainly due to it being a pretty spammable ability.

Shield Transference should increase Mag's overshields regardless of faction; it could be based on the % of armor lost for Grineer, and the number of enemies hit for Infested.

5: Buff Crush. Massively. Change Fracturing Crush too.

Crush is honestly one of the worst abilities in the game as-is. Suicidal cast time, non-scaling damage, and the enemies who just had all their limbs brutally forced into their torsos are able to get up and keep shooting you in mere seconds. There are 2 changes I'd like to see here. First, decrease the cast time by half. Second, all enemies affected by Crush should be unable to move, shoot, or attack for 5 seconds after the animation ends at base. It may conflict with Magnetize's functionality in a couple ways, but it would certainly make more sense (those animations are BRUTAL) and would allow for it to have some hard CC capabilities.

Finally, change Fracturing Crush; one idea I had would be to have all enemies affected by Crush have their base accuracy reduced for 10 seconds after they get up, which would still allow them to contribute to the Magnetize bubble's damage, but make them less likely to hit you if they're outside one of them. (After all, if Polarize scales and they are hard-CC'd by Crush anyway, the aug as it is becomes kinda obsolete).

-------

With these changes, I believe Mag would be in a MUCH better place, and be much more versatile; because as-is she's kinda a one-trick pony.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Jackviator

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

Honestly I feel like mag is in a really good place already and that they should focus on the frames that actually need reworked. AKA Hydroid.

[Godzilla853]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Honestly I feel like mag is in a really good place already and that they should focus on the frames that actually need reworked. AKA Hydroid.

I do also 

[(PSN)LastDoomKnight]

Well crush is pretty terrible, but I don't think mag will be looked at anytime soon. There are much weaker frames to be buffed right now.

[Jackviator]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Honestly I feel like mag is in a really good place already and that they should focus on the frames that actually need reworked. AKA Hydroid.

Hydroid does need a rework, but Mag pretty much has 2 usable abilities at high levels (Pull and Magnetize), and even then, Pull is temperamental at best due to how unreliable it is, and enemies can just walk out of Magnetize.

So while she might be usable, I don't think she's anywhere close to being in a solid place.

[elitetrollz]

Casting Crush will take you 10 years to crush

[RealisticName]

@MagPrime

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

2 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Hydroid does need a rework, but Mag pretty much has 2 usable abilities at high levels (Pull and Magnetize), and even then, Pull is temperamental at best due to how unreliable it is, and enemies can just walk out of Magnetize.

So while she might be usable, I don't think she's anywhere close to being in a solid place.

She basically has 2 abilities that scale really well, and 2 abilities that obliterate everything at low-mid levels. That is more than enough for me. She can be good in any situation and not needing to camp in one place is really nice.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

18 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Hydroid does need a rework, but Mag pretty much has 2 usable abilities at high levels (Pull and Magnetize), 

And Loki has only 2 as well (expect for 1 mission type, Spies, since you can use the Decoy/Switch tp, for once), but you either spam use one or the other. 

Mag is good as she is. Not perfect, not op, but good. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Blade_Wolf_16

[Drufo]

I agree with most of what you said. Mag currently is in a really good spot now, but there's always space for improvement.

[Husla]

30 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Honestly I feel like mag is in a really good place already and that they should focus on the frames that actually need reworked. AKA Hydroid.

They should revert his augment to what it used to be and he'll see more play.

[taiiat]

• i concur that the Rework that Mag received made me start to desire a Caster Energy Pool. idunno if Mag actually 'needs' it however.
• ofcourse Magnetize being a bit stronger at pulling Enemies in would be nice.
• ofcourse Polarize needs to have some Percentage of Armor/Shield strip in order for the Ability to have its features stay relevant throughout the game. it doesn't need to be a lot, just enough so that the features always work.
• Crush is useless w/o Augment currently ofc. the original CC it applied was useful and idk why that even got removed a long time ago.
  • besides, it doesn't need to prevent Enemies from moving at all even, just being a complete incapacitation but Magnetize could still group them up!

Fracturing Crush doesn't become obsolete just by Polarize having a relevant Armor/Shield strip - because due to the huge coverage it has to be limited to a reasonable number like 400 + 2.5% or something like that.
Fracturing Crush would still be useful.

Just now, Husla said:

They should revert his augment to what it used to be and he'll see more play.

Players using a Warframe just for l00t Multiplication isn't using that Warframe at all. that's using l00t Multiplication.
l00t Multiplication isn't an Ability, and it isn't useful for anything in Gameplay, it doesn't benefit your Gameplay not have any synergy with any other Abilities, or anything.

[Hammahness808]

I think these changes would be great and wouldn't be over the top (over powered)

[BiancaRoughfin]

I see no issues on Mag with exception of her Crush which seems pretty useless as it is. The rest of her kit are great.

Changes i would suggest to her Crush: Do Magnetic with the initial DoT and the final blow would do a massive Slash damage from the metal shards in the scenario that cut through enemies, this would make her skill synergies with Polarize as enemies with no Armor take higher damage from Slash, allowing for her ult to work at its best potential.

[MagPrime]

2 hours ago, RealisticName said:

@MagPrime

 

2 hours ago, Jackviator said:

1: Increase her energy pool to 125-150.

Probably the most obvious change that needs to be made; Mag is a heavy caster frame that relies on spamming her powers to survive, and yet she has the small energy pool of tankier frames like Rhino or Frost.

2: Make Pull a one-handed cast, adjust the ragdoll force on enemies to be more manageable/reliable, and change Greedy Pull to be more useful.

Making it a one-handed cast (that doesn't interrupt actions like reloading) would allow Mag to use it as a sort of "oh crap" button in situations such as having an empty clip as a Heavy Gunner walks around a corner unexpectedly. As for the force it puts on enemies, I'm pretty sure most Mag users have had enemies go flying miles behind them at one point or another; the force should be reduced to allow for greater control, to be able to use it to Pull enemies into Magnetize bubbles.

As for Greedy Pull, we all know it deserved the change it got, but frankly the aug is now pretty much useless. Let's change that. For example, it could have the effect of having the chance to Pull additional loot from enemies, in a fashion similar to Hydroid's Pilfering Swarm aug.

3: Increase the attraction on Magnetize to keep enemies in the center of the bubble, and allow Mag to detonate them at will.

The first part is pretty self-explanatory; enemies can (and will) simply waltz out of the Magnetize bubbles on a regular basis. Let's stop that happening. As for the second part, I think it would work well for Mag to detonate the Magnetize bubbles by using either Polarize or her 4 while inside the bubbles; it would give Mag a lot more control on when she wants to set off the Magnetize-nukes, because as it is it's unreliable to say the least, often exploding while there are no enemies around anymore.

4: Make Polarize scale as well as giving it a light CC effect on Infested. Finally, change Shield Transference to have an effect on all factions.

It really is that simple. The damage doesn't need to scale, just the armor-stripping and shield-negating. As-is, this non-scaling ability is almost useless past level 60ish. If it was based on a flat percentage instead of a set value, it would be useful at all levels. In addition, it should stun Infested target for 2-3 seconds upon hitting them. It's a short stub, but that's mainly due to it being a spammable ability.

Shield Transference should increase Mag's overshields regardless of faction; it could be based on the % of armor lost for Grineer, and the number of enemies hit for Infested.

5: Buff Crush. Massively. Change Fracturing Crush too.

Crush is honestly one of the worst abilities in the game as-is. Suicidal cast time, non-scaling damage, and the enemies who just had all their limbs brutally forced into their torsos are able to get up and keep shooting you in mere seconds. There are 2 changes I'd like to see here. First, decrease the cast time by half. Second, all enemies affected by Crush should be unable to move, shoot, or attack for 5 seconds after the animation ends at base. It may conflict with Magnetize's functionality in a couple ways, but it would certainly make more sense (those animations are BRUTAL) and would allow for it to have some hard CC capabilities.

Finally, change Fracturing Crush. It should cause all enemies affected by Crush to have their base accuracy reduced for 10 seconds after they get up. (After all, if Polarize scales and they are hard-CC'd by Crush anyway, the aug as it is becomes kinda obsolete).

-------

With these changes, I believe Mag would be in a MUCH better place, and be much more versatile; because as-is she's kinda a one-trick pony.

Mostly agree with the suggested changes.

I would rather see Fracturing replace Crush entirely, as well as having the accuracy debuff applied.  Another Mag thread had a Crush suggestion that would be a wonderful augment; Crush interacting with Magnetize and allowing you to detonate them via Crush.

Greedy Pull, personally, is rather useless in a co-op game and easily abused.  There really isn't much point to it from what I've seen.  If loot is that badly needed, we have Sentinels with Vacuum and honestly we would be better off with loot being distributed at the end of mission.

Shield Transference would be of more use if it provided overshields from Corpus and Armor from Grineer (blanket generalization by faction) but I think Mag should have some kind of weakness and it should be Infested.  If the Warframe is deadly against EVERY faction, then that's too powerful, imo.  (level differences not with standing)  Right now, You still gain overshields with the augment even if you're standing in an empty room.  The reason I suggest the armor transference is mainly for lore reasons.  I mean, Polarize strips bits of armor, it would make more sense for Mag to Magnetize those shards and use them for her own defense.

I do however, have to disagree that she's a one trick pony.  

She will never be a meta Warframe because there is always someone who does something from her lot "better", you'll get no argument from me on that.  But.  When you invest the time and forma on her and experiment, she is versatile and viable in most situations.

Edited April 26, 2017 by MagPrime

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

Oh mother of mercy, every time someone says Crush is useless I just want to punch something.

Sure, it's not Ideal right now, but it's far from useless.

Slow cast time? Natural talent.

Risk of enemy fire? Stand behind a freaking wall, it's not LOS.

I'm not saying I don't want it changed, I'm just sick of hearing the redundant rhetoric...

[MagPrime]

45 minutes ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Oh mother of mercy, every time someone says Crush is useless I just want to punch something.

Sure, it's not Ideal right now, but it's far from useless.

Slow cast time? Natural talent.

Risk of enemy fire? Stand behind a freaking wall, it's not LOS.

I'm not saying I don't want it changed, I'm just sick of hearing the redundant rhetoric...

Now you're just bringing common sense into this.  

[Buddhakingpen]

Greedy pull is fine. There are plenty of mag users, myself included, that use it on high level endurance run builds.  Pull being one handed would be nice though. Honestly i think most, if not all 1's in the game should be one handed. 

Magnetize is fine. A simple blast proc, using pull first or crush will make it so that enemies are dragged too deep into the center of the vortex to power their way out. Being able to detonate them at will is legit tho

The rest i'm sold on. 

What baffles me is that she's a frame that controls magnetism, her enemies all use guns except infested, but in no way can she manipulate those guns. If anything, she should have been the first frame in the game to be able to disarm enemies, or at least jam their guns.

The only change i really want, nitpicking aside is for pull to suck enemies into the nearest magnetize. No one cares about the energy drop synergy, and i know me, being an old school mag user, loved it when her pull used to clump enemies into a ball right in front of her, before they turned it into a ragdoll. I thought they changed it because it was too good, but then they give nidus his 2. So i want some form of that functionality back in her kit. 

[NinjaZeku]

Scaling Polarize would be nifty, but first of all I want Shield Transference
giving Overshields from hitting any Faction, and also to affect Squadmembers.

[Gurpgork]

I have two big problems here. 

Allowing Mag to detonate Magnetize at will could seriously break the ability. It's already one of the most insanely powerful nukes in the game, and it simultaneously provides a massive DoT, as well as a near-impenetrable bullet shield with a splash of crowd control. It may be the most powerful weapon damage amp in the game. It doesn't need that kind of buff. 

The second problem is the Polarize scaling thing. Polarize doesn't need to scale. Mag already has one of the most powerful scaling damage abilities in the game. If Polarize scales, then it's likely that it would still be eclipsed by Magnetize, or it would be like it was pre-nerf and become a monstrous nuke that would eclipse Magnetize. Neither of those are good. Polarize shouldn't be a scaling nuke, because Magnetize already fills that function. Polarize should have its own function, completely distinct from her other abilities. 

1 hour ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Oh mother of mercy, every time someone says Crush is useless I just want to punch something.

Sure, it's not Ideal right now, but it's far from useless.

Slow cast time? Natural talent.

Risk of enemy fire? Stand behind a freaking wall, it's not LOS.

I'm not saying I don't want it changed, I'm just sick of hearing the redundant rhetoric...

Crush in of itself isn't a terrible ability, it's just hilariously outclassed by her other abilities. Pull is massively better CC, Magnetize is immensely more useful for a damage ability... Even Polarize can deal more damage than Crush, if the enemies are grouped enough. 

What I'd love to see Crush do is bring every enemy in your vicinity close together. So you have Pull for keeping enemies off of their feet, Crush to group them all together, and then Magnetize and Polarize to smash them to bits. Beyond that, I don't think Crush would really need a buff. 

[Jackviator]

On 4/26/2017 at 1:39 PM, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Oh mother of mercy, every time someone says Crush is useless I just want to punch something.

Sure, it's not Ideal right now, but it's far from useless.

Slow cast time? Natural talent.

Risk of enemy fire? Stand behind a freaking wall, it's not LOS.

I'm not saying I don't want it changed, I'm just sick of hearing the redundant rhetoric...

Did I say it was useless? No. I said it's one of the worst abilities in the game, because that's what it is. It doesn't CC for long (only when you're in the cast animation and for a second or two after you're done) and the damage doesn't scale at all. It's usable as an "oh-crap" button if you're surrounded, I'll give it that. It's usable. Thing is, it's also pretty much just an objectively worse ability than the 4th abilities of Rhino, Frost, Oberon, and Saryn (be it for shorter cast times, more effective CC, or both).

And yeah, the cast time is suicidal, cover or no. Warframe is a horde mode game. Enemies are coming at you from all sides, constantly, and unless you're in a conveniently spawned dead end of a narrow hall tileset or something, there's always the chance of you getting shot at from someone outside the cast range. 

As for Natural Talent fixing it... If it was an exilus mod, sure, I could see that band-aiding the cast-time problem. It wouldn't be ideal, but it would work. Thing is, NT isn't an exilus, and Mag is already starved for mods on most setups, especially if you're hoping to use Fracturing Crush or another augment.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Jackviator

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

1 hour ago, Jackviator said:

Did I say it was useless? No. I said it's one of the worst abilities in the game, because that's what it is. It doesn't CC for long (only when you're in the cast animation and for a second or two after you're done) and the damage doesn't scale at all. It's usable as an "oh-crap" button if you're surrounded, I'll give it that. It's usable. Thing is, it's also pretty much just an objectively worse ability than the 4th abilities of Rhino, Frost, Oberon, and Saryn (be it for shorter cast times, more effective CC, or both).

And yeah, the cast time is suicidal, cover or no. Warframe is a horde mode game. Enemies are coming at you from all sides, constantly, and unless you're in a conveniently spawned dead end of a narrow hall tileset or something, there's always the chance of you getting shot at from someone outside the cast range. 

As for Natural talent fixing it... If it was an exilus mod, sure, I could see that band-aiding the cast-time problem. It wouldn't be ideal, but it would work. Thing is, NT isn't an exilus, and Mag is already starved for mods on most setups, especially if you're hoping to use Fracturing Crush or another augment.

First, Ballistic battery.

Second, then it's a good thing I don't use augments on Mag, huh? :/

 

 

 

 

P.S. I was mostly talking about the other people on the thread calling Crush useless.

Edited April 26, 2017 by mac10smg-ToaOfGreen

[MagPrime]

I'd love to run some missions with you guys, Mag it up and compare notes.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

7 hours ago, Jackviator said:

As-is, this non-scaling ability is almost useless past level 60ish.

Against armor it's never useless, you don't need 100% strip to do more damage, any strip helps you do more damage.

Taking more casts later against high levels isn't really an issue, because when it does become an issue it's when the game is supposed to get you killed anyway. Rather it gives scaling to the enemies against your power(s), they are less affected by it. Scaling usually only serves to attenuate enemy scaling without actually fixing the problem at all and only makes the main problem more prominent.

It does need to be changed against shields though, against shields it turns into more of a damage ability rather than debuff, and honestly I'd rather get a better permanent debuff than damage that I can't fully utilise at high levels because if you can't kill everything that is affected by the polarize damage, they will recover the shields and it was just a waste (unlike armor that never goes up after the debuff is applied).

[Neptlude]

As a mag player I find her pretty good already My only gripe is that crush should also get bonus damage with the number of shards in the field...