How to fix Mag in 5 simple steps

[xPhantomStranga]

1 hour ago, Neptlude said:

As a mag player I find her pretty good already My only gripe is that crush should also get bonus damage with the number of shards in the field...

Crush needs some work, thats pretty clear. Its augment should be a part of the ability to being with.

According to my profile i play mag prime 48% of the time......... which is nearly all the time these days......... Its a fact that at high level it is hard to keep her alive. Her survivability is my only issue with her current state. She deals an insane about of dps and kps at all levels of content..... its not being able to get hit at all thats my only struggle.

 

Also, her augments are all terrible. just like crush, polarizes augment should be apart of it to begin with.

Edited April 27, 2017 by xPhantomStranga

[Neptlude]

43 minutes ago, xPhantomStranga said:

Crush needs some work, thats pretty clear. Its augment should be a part of the ability to being with.

According to my profile i play mag prime 48% of the time......... which is nearly all the time these days......... Its a fact that at high level it is hard to keep her alive. Her survivability is my only issue with her current state. She deals an insane about of dps and kps at all levels of content..... its not being able to get hit at all thats my only struggle.

 

Also, her augments are all terrible. just like crush, polarizes augment should be apart of it to begin with.

I dont even use her augs

[MagPrime]

15 minutes ago, Neptlude said:

I dont even use her augs

Meanwhile, here I am trying to fitq all of them into an experimental build.

[Homer87]

13 hours ago, Jackviator said:

As for Greedy Pull, we all know it deserved the change it got, but frankly the aug is now pretty much useless. Let's change that. For example, it could have the effect of having the chance to Pull additional loot from enemies, in a fashion similar to Hydroid's Pilfering Swarm aug.

I use Greedy Pull as is. It's a great way to stay mobile, restock, and crowd control all in one move. As long as Greedy Pull can keep it's current functionality, and have your suggested functionality added to it, I'd be totally on board for that.

All the rest, I agree with. +1

[SenorClipClop]

13 hours ago, Jackviator said:

Finally, change Shield Transference to have an effect on all factions.

I agree with all of your points except this one. I think it'd be cool if my favourite Warframe were optimally effective against all Factions, but I respect the fact that some tools in the game are really effective in some situations and best not taken in others.

13 hours ago, Jackviator said:

as-is she's kinda a one-trick pony

Do you mind explaining what you mean more specifically? I find her pretty versatile myself, though best suited to a specific playstyle. I play her as a defensive caster on missions where a decent amount of time can be spent in the same room (Def, Mobi Def, Surv, Int, etc). Her damage is massive, but stationary. She is allowed to be mobile, so I tend to play in circles around my 1 or 2 active Magnetize zones and focus the damage into them. I also have a handy Sentient-slayer setup for her, which is pretty useful.

Edited April 27, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Jackviator]

Just now, SenorClipClop said:

Do you mind explaining what you mean more specifically?

She's fine using all her abilities (except maybe Crush, because, well... it's Crush :P ) up to a certain point, but due to the lack of scalability on Crush (unaugmented) and Polarize at higher levels her playstyle begins to heavily revolve around her Magnetize and pretty much nothing else, unless one spams the hell out of Polarize or hopes that one of several Pulls in a row will actually land an enemy into a Magnetize bubble and not miles behind you. 

Sure, Magnetize is definitely quite an effective ability, but doing nothing but pressing 2 and firing into the bubble gets a tad boring after a while.

[tsoa]

I agree with quite a few of the things that have been suggested. Though I don't think that Crush is terrible. Is there any other ability that gives a wide range CC (without LoS) and also deals quite an amount of damage? (Rhino's Stomp maybe) The good thing about it is, that it's easier for squad mates to kill enemies while a Mag casts Crush. Look at Zephyr's Tornado or Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm. They make it much more difficult to kill the enemies affected by it. That's why I regard the large casting time as a positive feature. It also gives me time to breath every once in a while. ;)

But like I said there are some things that need some tweaks and especially bug fixes:

• energy pool: should be higher (at least for the Prime variant)
• Pull:
  • It would be nice to have more control where enemies land. I like someone's idea of: tap 1 = enemies land near you, hold 1 = enemies have their current trajectory. The way enemies are pulled therfore shouldn't be depended on power strength or not as depended as it is now.
  • The chance of getting energy orbs is not really that useful. Too low for early game where new players really need energy and too weak an ability to kill enemies later on in the game. Two suggestions:
  1. Focus on new players and set the chance to 75% on kill.
  2. Focus on later game and set the chance to 5% on hit.
• Magnetize:
  • The hitscan weapons still can't hit enemies that are between you and a bubble.
  • More info on how the ability interacts with weapons.
• Polarize:
  • Since it's now her 3rd ability, it should really replenish her whole shields. Atm it just replenishes 500 points.
  • A buff vs Corpus would be nice since they can replenish their shields and shields scale differently than armor.
• Crush:
  • One of the worst things that happens to me are, that enemies are not immediately affected by it. I guess it was yesterday when suddenly a Heavy Gunner was in front of me, the moment I had cast Crush. There we were, eye to eye and I couldn't do a thing to stop her. Luckily she got affected by the second tick of Crush.
  • I like the recent change that Crush now affects Ospreys. That's a really really nice change. :)
  • It would be nice to have at least 2 seconds headstart after casting Crush. It's odd that enemies can start attacking as soon as the casting of Crush is over.
  • I'd like to have a damage reduction during the casting of Crush. It's an ability that cannot be stopped and enemies that aren't within range or otherwise unaffected (Nullifiers as well as Corpus Techs and Corruped Bombards under the Nullifier's bubble say hi) can easil kill Mag. It would also fit her theme.
• Shield Transference: Since I don't use it, I can' say much about it, but it should work better against all factions.
• Fracturing Crush: Mainly just adds the immobility against Corpus. Maybe just add a 50% shield reduction alongside the armor reduction. That would be a huge help.

I find Mag to be very powerful against Grineer, which I find odd. Magnetism is the weakness of Corpus after all. But due to the scaling of shields, her 3 and 4 aren't very good aginst them in higher levels (80+).  Imho she just needs a tweak here and a tweak there to make her usability against Corpus on par with the one she has against Grineer. That's all I'm really interested in.

Edit: Just found out that Pull also works on Ospreys. yay :)

Edited April 27, 2017 by tsoa

[Mousarchy]

On 4/26/2017 at 1:37 PM, MagPrime said:

 and honestly we would be better off with loot being distributed at the end of mission.

omg i love this and why havnt i thought of this before. i dont care anymore. it would get peopel to stop complaining about how 'sentinals are required' and 'kavats are trash  cuz no vacuum idgaf that it gives the whole team a flat +60% crit chance. its complete trash'

...sorry i got off track cuz i like this idea.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Mag is a great frame just like she is. Great synergy. Disagree with op

[45neo]

On 4/26/2017 at 10:06 AM, Jackviator said:

1: Increase her energy pool to 125-150.

Probably the most obvious change that needs to be made; Mag is a heavy caster frame that relies on spamming her powers to survive, and yet she has the small energy pool of tankier frames like Rhino or Frost.

2: Make Pull a one-handed cast, adjust the ragdoll force on enemies to be more manageable/reliable, and change Greedy Pull to be more useful.

Making it a one-handed cast (that doesn't interrupt actions like reloading) would allow Mag to use it as a sort of "oh crap" button in situations such as having an empty clip as a Heavy Gunner walks around a corner unexpectedly. As for the force it puts on enemies, I'm pretty sure most Mag users have had enemies go flying miles behind them at one point or another; the force should be reduced to allow for greater control, to be able to use it to Pull enemies into Magnetize bubbles.

As for Greedy Pull, we all know it deserved the change it got, but frankly the aug is now pretty much useless. Let's change that. For example, it could have the effect of having the chance to Pull additional loot from enemies, in a fashion similar to Hydroid's Pilfering Swarm aug.

3: Increase the attraction on Magnetize to keep enemies in the center of the bubble, and allow Mag to detonate them at will.

The first part is pretty self-explanatory; enemies can (and will) simply waltz out of the Magnetize bubbles on a regular basis. Let's stop that happening. As for the second part, I think it would work well for Mag to detonate the Magnetize bubbles by using either Polarize or her 4 while inside the bubbles; it would give Mag a lot more control on when she wants to set off the Magnetize-nukes, because as it is it's unreliable to say the least, often exploding while there are no enemies around anymore.

4: Make Polarize scale as well as giving it a light CC effect on Infested. Finally, change Shield Transference to have an effect on all factions.

It really is that simple. The damage doesn't need to scale, just the armor-stripping and shield-negating. As-is, this non-scaling ability is almost useless past level 60ish. If it was based on a flat percentage instead of a set value, it would be useful at all levels. In addition, it should stun Infested target for 2-3 seconds upon hitting them. It's a rather short stun, but that's mainly due to it being a pretty spammable ability.

Shield Transference should increase Mag's overshields regardless of faction; it could be based on the % of armor lost for Grineer, and the number of enemies hit for Infested.

5: Buff Crush. Massively. Change Fracturing Crush too.

Crush is honestly one of the worst abilities in the game as-is. Suicidal cast time, non-scaling damage, and the enemies who just had all their limbs brutally forced into their torsos are able to get up and keep shooting you in mere seconds. There are 2 changes I'd like to see here. First, decrease the cast time by half. Second, all enemies affected by Crush should be unable to move, shoot, or attack for 5 seconds after the animation ends at base. It may conflict with Magnetize's functionality in a couple ways, but it would certainly make more sense (those animations are BRUTAL) and would allow for it to have some hard CC capabilities.

Finally, change Fracturing Crush; one idea I had would be to have all enemies affected by Crush have their base accuracy reduced for 10 seconds after they get up, which would still allow them to contribute to the Magnetize bubble's damage, but make them less likely to hit you if they're outside one of them. (After all, if Polarize scales and they are hard-CC'd by Crush anyway, the aug as it is becomes kinda obsolete).

-------

With these changes, I believe Mag would be in a MUCH better place, and be much more versatile; because as-is she's kinda a one-trick pony.

or a two step change would be simply add a SMALL scaling to polerize and buff crush.

[MagPrime]

On 4/27/2017 at 7:52 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Mag is a great frame just like she is. Great synergy. Disagree with op

I have to disagree that she's just fine as she is.  There is a lot of room for improvement, especially with the lack of synergy she has going.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

She oozes synergy

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Overseen mechanics:

Pull got 2 effects. The first cast dropps enemys, only the second one -pull on ragdolled enemys- actually pulls them.

Magnetizes pull dimishs with distance from its center.

Pull - thus dropp enemys or violently pull them standing in the center and they'll get pulled in by magnetize and won't be able to flee anymore.

 

Greedy pull also got 2 nerfs:

The first was deserved...It was nerfed to only benefit her because the whole pulling orbs thing was able to maintan channeled/stationary abilitys indefinitly

The second nerf was not...They addet LoS later. It's useless now because of how bad LoS works on small objects.

Just removing LoS would return it's intendet effectivity....if DE ever admits the misstake that is. Those guys are fast to rework but i've never seen them restore stuff...

Edited April 30, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Enderlook]

On 2017-4-26 at 1:06 PM, Jackviator said:

1: Increase her energy pool to 125-150.

Probably the most obvious change that needs to be made; Mag is a heavy caster frame that relies on spamming her powers to survive, and yet she has the small energy pool of tankier frames like Rhino or Frost.

2: Make Pull a one-handed cast, adjust the ragdoll force on enemies to be more manageable/reliable, and change Greedy Pull to be more useful.

Making it a one-handed cast (that doesn't interrupt actions like reloading) would allow Mag to use it as a sort of "oh crap" button in situations such as having an empty clip as a Heavy Gunner walks around a corner unexpectedly. As for the force it puts on enemies, I'm pretty sure most Mag users have had enemies go flying miles behind them at one point or another; the force should be reduced to allow for greater control, to be able to use it to Pull enemies into Magnetize bubbles.

As for Greedy Pull, we all know it deserved the change it got, but frankly the aug is now pretty much useless. Let's change that. For example, it could have the effect of having the chance to Pull additional loot from enemies, in a fashion similar to Hydroid's Pilfering Swarm aug.

3: Increase the attraction on Magnetize to keep enemies in the center of the bubble, and allow Mag to detonate them at will.

The first part is pretty self-explanatory; enemies can (and will) simply waltz out of the Magnetize bubbles on a regular basis. Let's stop that happening. As for the second part, I think it would work well for Mag to detonate the Magnetize bubbles by using either Polarize or her 4 while inside the bubbles; it would give Mag a lot more control on when she wants to set off the Magnetize-nukes, because as it is it's unreliable to say the least, often exploding while there are no enemies around anymore.

4: Make Polarize scale as well as giving it a light CC effect on Infested. Finally, change Shield Transference to have an effect on all factions.

It really is that simple. The damage doesn't need to scale, just the armor-stripping and shield-negating. As-is, this non-scaling ability is almost useless past level 60ish. If it was based on a flat percentage instead of a set value, it would be useful at all levels. In addition, it should stun Infested target for 2-3 seconds upon hitting them. It's a rather short stun, but that's mainly due to it being a pretty spammable ability.

Shield Transference should increase Mag's overshields regardless of faction; it could be based on the % of armor lost for Grineer, and the number of enemies hit for Infested.

5: Buff Crush. Massively. Change Fracturing Crush too.

Crush is honestly one of the worst abilities in the game as-is. Suicidal cast time, non-scaling damage, and the enemies who just had all their limbs brutally forced into their torsos are able to get up and keep shooting you in mere seconds. There are 2 changes I'd like to see here. First, decrease the cast time by half. Second, all enemies affected by Crush should be unable to move, shoot, or attack for 5 seconds after the animation ends at base. It may conflict with Magnetize's functionality in a couple ways, but it would certainly make more sense (those animations are BRUTAL) and would allow for it to have some hard CC capabilities.

Finally, change Fracturing Crush; one idea I had would be to have all enemies affected by Crush have their base accuracy reduced for 10 seconds after they get up, which would still allow them to contribute to the Magnetize bubble's damage, but make them less likely to hit you if they're outside one of them. (After all, if Polarize scales and they are hard-CC'd by Crush anyway, the aug as it is becomes kinda obsolete).

-------

With these changes, I believe Mag would be in a MUCH better place, and be much more versatile; because as-is she's kinda a one-trick pony.

1. Yeah, I think Mag should have more energy for her abilities, but I think this is a secondary problem.
2.  
   • Agree.
   • Also agree, ragdoll is to powerful.
   • Greedy Pull should ragdoll items for allies also, or at least, have a chance to steal more items per enemy.
3. Agree, exploding magnetize could be done magnetizing the target again!
4.  
   • Polarizate should do an aditional damage to infestation (beacuse they don't lose armor or shild).
   • Shield Transference should also transfer armor shards to armor Mag (like a bonus), this armor could be lost after 8-12 seconds | an X amount per second | an X actual percentaje per second | or when getting damage. Also, it could do like some kind of overshield, similar to Icy Avalanche.
   • Also, I think Polarize should scale, like dmg bonus equal to Corpus: 20% Shield, Grineer: 20% Armor (also improve armor loss), Infestation: 20% HP.
5.  It's too slow, but I think Fracturing bones must be a mod, not and aditional ability of Crush. I think Crush should also use Armor Shards to do more damage.

[P0Pz]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 6:13 PM, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Honestly I feel like mag is in a really good place already and that they should focus on the frames that actually need reworked. AKA Hydroid.

Absolut agree. I love Mag so much that for me she is the nr1 hard CC & Debuffer + DD frame.

Her 2, hands down is one of the stronges DD skills in WF. Not only does her 2 DD like crazy, it is a hard CC as well and it scals like crazy with any foes lvl up. The only thing i wish is getting a slight more size like +5 - 8meters.

Her 3 is almost perfect! Team support  & Debuff in a wide range..do not forget it regain shield to cryopods as well oO..what else do you want? Okay..instead flat armor & shield number reducing it should take out like 15-20%.

Her 4 is again guys... a Hard CC in a wide range,... we can say the dmg it does is crap, true. It would be awesome to combine a combo effect with her 4 and using 3 afterwards to double or trible the armor and shield reducing. But i still see her 4 mega usefull.

Now her 1..

Again guys..a hard CC...damn mag...3 from 4 skills are HARD CC's! I love pull! Nr1 spamable skill in WF and a hell of fun to use. Does like no dmg. I wish it would do every time a target is touched twice by pull double the dmg if touched before with her 3, up to 5 times max. 1st pull 500/ 3rd pull 1000/ 5th pull 2000/7th pull 4000/ 9th pull 8000

----- OR -----

simple start to add foes lvl within the calculation like: 

(dmg × target lvl) × (2 x target lvl) ÷ (100×2,5) ÷ 2,5 = Auto Scaling DMG

Vs lvl 10:

(500×10) × (2x10) ÷ (100×2,5) ÷ 2,5 = 160 DMG

Vs lvl 20:

(500×20) × (2×20) ÷ (100×2,5) ÷ 2,5 = 640 DMG

Vs lvl 30:

(500×30)×(2×30)÷(100×2,5) ÷ 2,5
= 1.440

Vs

lvl 50: 4.000 / lvl 60: 5.760 / lvl 70: 7.840 / lvl 80: 10.240 / lvl 90: 12.960 / lvl 100: 16.000 / ... / lvl 200: 64.000

Something like this or based on target max hp like 10%. Just brainstormed a bit.

But i love mags kit all over. Total fun frame. A real caster typ.

Edit: Hmm

Why not give her 3 a survival kit?

10% of every targets armor or shield amount (the one which is bigger) her 3 reduced, is stored into a "blue overshield". This overshield can not be bypassed and gains for every used energypoint 2 overshield armor until a cap of 650 overShield armor. It will not recharge. It does only stack with 2 polarize skill casts. If 35% overshield or less are left, the blue overshield changes colore into orange. At this point the next cast of her 3 will fill up again once her overshields but loses all armor collected before. Needs to spam again a lot to up back shield armor.

Maybe add to it a upkeep cost in form of armor points are droping each/s. So to up and hold her shield armor at maximum she needs to use energy. Like 2 armor points drain/s.

Edited May 4, 2017 by P0Pz

[JalakBali]

On 4/27/2017 at 0:06 AM, Jackviator said:

5: Buff Crush. Massively. Change Fracturing Crush too.

Crush is honestly one of the worst abilities in the game as-is. Suicidal cast time, non-scaling damage, and the enemies who just had all their limbs brutally forced into their torsos are able to get up and keep shooting you in mere seconds. There are 2 changes I'd like to see here. First, decrease the cast time by half. Second, all enemies affected by Crush should be unable to move, shoot, or attack for 5 seconds after the animation ends at base. It may conflict with Magnetize's functionality in a couple ways, but it would certainly make more sense (those animations are BRUTAL) and would allow for it to have some hard CC capabilities.

Actually, the Limbo rework ZAWARUDO gave me an idea how Crush should work: when Crush is activated, Mag is controlling the area around her. So, within the range of Crush, any projectile entering the area would get frozen (like in Statis) and then get reflected back at the end of Crush, with the damage multiplied by power strength (the strength of her magnetic power obviously). So it becomes a kind of Absorb except it has a short timer and only works on projectiles.

 

Also, if we were to do a bit of synergy with her other powers, Crush could interact with Magnetize and either it would make Magnetize blow up earlier with more damage (if within range), or it would multiply the damage already in Magnetize bubble(s).

[blacklusterseph]

For Pull, I think it might be cool if it only pulled enemies a few meters towards you (like some set range of 3 meters or something) but still knocked them down and maybe have it affected by power range or duration. Then have power strength increase the damage and maybe rip off a bit of armour.

[Aimop95]

I do like the Pull suggestion. I'd like to expand on that. Make it to what it was like before ragdolling, where it would drag enemies right at Mags feet (keep the cone/multi-target though). This allows us to drop magnetize right on top of them. A further QOL would be if you Pull through a Magnetize bubble, enemies get instantly stuck in the bubble. As of now, you have to be really careful with the range of when you use Pull. To close and you pull them right through the bubble, to far and they don't land near it.

Magnetize should have the ice proc slow effect on enemies that interact the bubble. As of now they barely slow down and often one or two gets through (this is especially problematic with infested, as if I fail to accurately tag the Parasitic Eximus, he'll just keep charging me and draining my energy). I love the suggestion to end Magnetize early, but it's not necessary and DE would probably have to remove the placement of multiple Magnetizes to implement this unless they bound ending the Magnetize to another power, which wouldn't make much sense because currently, all powers synergize really well with Magnetize no matter what order you cast them in. Having polarize pop Magnetize bubbles would force you to cast polarize first, then Magnetize, then recast polarize to pop.

Damage aside, I would love it if Crush's cast time was 25% faster, utilized Polarize shards to increase damage (like how Magnetize adds damage) and grouped enemies on the last tick of damage into one spot (her casting animation looks like she's doing that, but it's so jarring to simply see enemies drop right where they stand despite Mag mashing her hands together).

[Katinka]

A lot of nice ideas here, just a couple of things came to mind as I read all this, in no particular order, what I can remember thinking...

Pull and Crush both do additional damage to Magnetized targets already.

If Magnetize were to get a manual detonation, why not just make it tap to cast them and hold to detonate them?

Polarize triple dips on Power Strength so it will suck on a Magnetize build that treats Strength as a dump stat but if you actually take a decent amount of Strength it'll increase the shields restored, increase the armour/shields removed & increase the damage multiplier for the explosions from shields/armour.  That means your explosion damage is based on Power Strength², 40% Power Strength is effectively 16% for Polarize explosion damage while 185% Power Strength would be 342.25% (if the enemies have enough Shields/armour to power that).  That might explain why opinions on Polarize vary so widely, it's damage varies by build more so than most powers.

The main issue I have with Crush is that it locks Mag down longer than the enemies.  I've seen Corrupted Bombards right themselves in mid-air and start firing rockets before their feet touch the ground after Crush and they do that before my Mag can start moving again!  That's more of an issue with special enemy attacks though as some seem immune to interruption (ever knocked a heavy grineer over during their ground slam just to have them get a ground slam anyway during their standing animation?)  A minor issue is that Crush just doesn't live up to it's description or animation.  It sounds and looks brutal but the enemies just carry on afterwards, shrug and walk it off.  Even with the augment to hold them still, they stand up and shoot as if their arms and legs weren't just pushed through their chest a second ago.

All loot that is used post-game should be treated in the same manner as Credits, picked up by one person, whole team gets it.  It works for Credits so why not other materials required for crafting?  Drops used during the game such as ammo, health and energy should continue to function as they do.