Does Anyone Actually Believe Waiting 84 Hours For a Warframe to Build is a Good Thing?

[SenorClipClop]

I'm really okay with build times. Since I have the item forever after building it, the wait is okay. If I really, really can't wait and I think it's worth the money, I'll buy it or rush it with plat, but there's just so much for me to do that I can always entertain myself and wait that 12hrs-few days. I find I can ease the waiting by:

• being patient.
• never focusing on only one thing at a time. I always like to have 2-3 frames/weapons in need of leveling at any given time, same goes for crafting.
• playing other games sometimes. If I grind (which is pretty seldom), I'll grind for the resources, then take a break from WF while my item crafts.
• preemptively crafting items. I have like a dozen ready-built weapons just sitting in my Foundry until I get bored of the ones I'm using now.

[NullPointer256]

One thing I like to do with new Warframes is to start them off with an all new loadout too. New primary, new secondary and new melee. 

So sometimes I'll use that warframe build time in order to gather cryotic or argon or oxium or whatever I need to build out the weapons I'll equip once its ready.

Edited April 27, 2017 by NullPointer256

[SharadzKharzhodi]

11 hours ago, Xekrin said:

Also you think 84 is bad?  Built Equinox yet?  I have.

haha lol

[PrVonTuckIII]

21 hours ago, Runecrafting said:

Talking strictly about the Free-to-Play model? Path of Exile, League of Legends, Smite, DOTA 2, Tribes: Ascend, Team Fortress 2 ... Just off the top of my head.

Everyone has already bashed you for the stupid idea, so allow me to counter these:

PoE - Even more grind than Warframe.

LoL/Smite/DOTA 2 - Not even remotely similar games. Unfair to compare them. Additionally, Warframe players can get even cosmetics free through trade.

Tribes: Ascend - Not really a fun game IMO. Ratings and playerbase have been steadily decreasing for a while now.

TF2 - Again, not a similar game. One's a MP FPS, the other is a coop TPS with far more versatility and range in terms of gameplay.

Edited April 28, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[Andaius]

16 hours ago, elitetrollz said:

RUSH RUSH BABY

This^ IF your so impatient then you can get them instantly. 

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

prime access, cosmetics, tennogen, weapon and warframe bundles, they probably make plenty of money, would not mind if they cut down hours waiting for a frame to build, of course reason is impossible in this forum

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

4 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Everyone has already bashed you for the stupid idea, so allow me to counter these:

PoE - even more grind than Warframe.

LoL/Smite/DOTA 2 - Not even remotely similar games. Unfair to compare them. Additionally, Warframe players can get even cosmetics free through trade.

Tribes: Ascend - Not really a fun game IMO. Ratings and playerbase have been steadily decreasing for a while now.

TF2 - Again, not a similar game. One's a MP FPS, the other is a coop TPS with far more versatility and range in terms of gameplay.

POE: legendary weapons drop like candy, no it really isn't, i will take a guess and say you played it for about 10 minutes, the new update for the random generated dungeons made it easier to grind out vaal orbs

Mobas: free to play and once you have enough in game currency you get the champion on the spot without waiting 3 days for it to "build", some even have a test drive for champions before you buy them to see if you like them or not

Tribes Ascend: once again, doesn't matter if it is not fun or fun, its model is fair

TF2: free to play game, guns and hats can be acquired in game without building them

OP is not stupid, he is talking reason, league of legends and dota are the 2 biggest free  to play games with the fairest models, it doesn't matter what genre of f2p it is, it is about how they go about their business model, warframe makes tons of money off of prime access, tennogen, cosmetics, sinking plat into potatoes, weapon slots, warframe slots, sentinel slots, archwing slots, and now the new riven slots etc. one could argue you could wait for awhile and try your luck  in the nightmare that is trade chat, or pay to skip the god awful amount of weapon slots and 2 warframe slots. This game makes alot of money, don't think it would hurt them at all to reduce the build times on warframes or even guns, 12 hours for a warframe max and 8 hours for a gun max, fair and not annoying.

But i can already feel the salt i am about to get for posting reasonable thoughts that would help out the game, what really makes me angry is that for new players they have to wait for this stuff, people that have played a long time can wait because they have plenty of other things to do, but a new player has to wait on that frame because he really has nothing more he can do, way to much time gating in the beginning. But of course tell me how i am wrong and you are right.

[Gelkor]

When I first started it was a hindrance on getting the frame I want. Now that I have all the frames and just make the new ones and play them eventually to see if I like them or to mastery fodder them, it literally makes no difference to me and I don't care.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

18 hours ago, Xekrin said:

Plenty of players will speculate and have their own opinions on why, yet only DE can tell you the actual reason and they probably won't.

It also won't change or be reduced.  Also you think 84 is bad?  Built Equinox yet?  I have.

I still have nightmares.

Her and Atlas were nigh impossible to farm.

Edited April 28, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[Runecrafting]

9 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Everyone has already bashed you for the stupid idea, so allow me to counter these:

PoE - even more grind than Warframe.

LoL/Smite/DOTA 2 - Not even remotely similar games. Unfair to compare them. Additionally, Warframe players can get even cosmetics free through trade.

Tribes: Ascend - Not really a fun game IMO. Ratings and playerbase have been steadily decreasing for a while now.

TF2 - Again, not a similar game. One's a MP FPS, the other is a coop TPS with far more versatility and range in terms of gameplay.

You didn't "counter" anything. You saw a list of games that have objectively better business models and said that comparing Warframe's to them was unfair. How about giving actual points explaining how Warframe's business model is as fair as the ones I mentioned?

More specifically, explain how removing build times would be cataclysmic to the future of this game. Because I really doubt rushing builds is a significant portion of their income.

[Vali]

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Bortis Badtouch said:

OP is not stupid, he is talking reason, league of legends and dota are the 2 biggest free  to play games with the fairest models, it doesn't matter what genre of f2p it is, it is about how they go about their business model, warframe makes tons of money off of prime access, tennogen, cosmetics, sinking plat into potatoes, weapon slots, warframe slots, sentinel slots, archwing slots, and now the new riven slots etc.

It kinda does matter. The content in Warframe as well as the update cycle is far different than LoL/DOTA. To say that their genre has no effect on the individual game's business model is very short-sighted. 

[TARINunit9]

23 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

This is also why there is a 24 hour limit upon failing a mastery test. 

The 24 hour limit is upon TAKING the mastery test, pass or fail. Though the "pass" part only comes into play at the very beginning, it still proves your point

[Ricardo58]

23 minutes ago, Runecrafting said:

More specifically, explain how removing build times would be cataclysmic to the future of this game. Because I really doubt rushing builds is a significant portion of their income.

Build times, among other things, are there so people don't "Locust" their way through the game like in many others. I hate those timers myself too sometimes, but I've gotten used to it.

People would just rush through everything and then would whine even more about being bored, X feature sucks, etc.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Ricardo58

[Flamingauss]

The biggest thing here, is Warframe has one of THE BEST free to play gimmicks, So obviously they need to make money...You're paying for time instead of paying for wins. Be happy it isn't 84 hours to play a frame for a week then it's gone

 

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

4 hours ago, Runecrafting said:

You didn't "counter" anything. You saw a list of games that have objectively better business models and said that comparing Warframe's to them was unfair. How about giving actual points explaining how Warframe's business model is as fair as the ones I mentioned?

More specifically, explain how removing build times would be cataclysmic to the future of this game. Because I really doubt rushing builds is a significant portion of their income.

Not to mention if you removed the time it takes to build the value of things will be lost and the game will feel stale and boring, can you imagine how it was before relics on t4 defense and intercept and it took weeks to get that 1 last item and then you waiting excitedly and anxiously for the frame / weapon and how rewarding and good it felt when it was done.

 

Because of the timers etc I have actual sentimental value in the weapons I spent time farming waiting and forma'ing and the item feels like its something I accomplished not just another weapon.

The wait time is worth it, and the plat costs to rush aren't all that bad tbh, if I can give any tips is to build the helmet chassis and system before you log off for the night so when you get up you can start building the warframe and tbh idk the exact number to rush a frame but if its 50p lets be honest just grind and get a golden item or 2 and sell em then boom instant warframe.

Edited April 28, 2017 by AlphaTheFinalBalance

[Hypernaut1]

I personally like the timers. I wish more SP games, like Skyrim, would implement them to an extent.  

[PrVonTuckIII]

6 hours ago, Runecrafting said:

You didn't "counter" anything. You saw a list of games that have objectively better business models and said that comparing Warframe's to them was unfair. How about giving actual points explaining how Warframe's business model is as fair as the ones I mentioned?

"Objectively." 

And that's where you're wrong. At the very least, all of these games are equally F2P, because in all these games, you can get everything that affects gameplay for free, as long as you put in the time to do it. In Warframe, said grind is arguably better, and you can get things that don't affect gameplay too, as long you put in the time. After all, in the time I've played WF, I've yet to spend a single penny, yet have spent thousands of plat. That's every bit as good, if not better, than the business models in the games you've outlined, because while it manages to achieve the baseline for F2P games, it goes beyond that, and provides even more. The only thing in the game that you can't get for free are Prime Cosmetics. 

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More specifically, explain how removing build times would be cataclysmic to the future of this game. Because I really doubt rushing builds is a significant portion of their income.

Because then people would rush through the game even faster than they already do. Players finishing content early = people getting bored faster = more people leaving the game early = less people buying things.

This isn't rocket science. There's a reason why the Forums are constantly spammed by requests for 'Endgame' and 'Challenge.' It's because players want something to keep themselves engaged, not something to be rushed through in a day.

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Bortis Badtouch said:

Snip

1) Fair business model? Sure, I can agree with that. Better than Warframe? I'd disagree. See above. 

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biggest free  to play games with the fairest models

See above.

Quote

But of course tell me how i am wrong and you are right.

You are wrong, and I am right. Or rather, you have a deluded sense of how games work, and mostly everyone else doesn't.

Edited April 28, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[uAir]

This is not even an issue.

If you are going to complain about waiting and being able to log off, then go do stuff, and come back to a new frame, then you are an entitled brat who still lives at home and expects his mom to clean his room.

Go to Vindictus where you spend 50+ hours farming for a weapon, spend 40+ USD getting it to 10 enhances, and then watch it blow up when you try to go to 11 enhance. Literally, the weapon just blows up and that's the end of it.

 

[arch111]

I ... was going to say I don't like timegates. The time for retrying MR Tests that fail because of lag or my cat suddenly dancing on my keyboard, can feel frustrating.

The warframes and weapons ...

Would we really put time into our frames if we could have them instantly?

The buyers, you have the answer?

[Runecrafting]

4 hours ago, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

Not to mention if you removed the time it takes to build the value of things will be lost and the game will feel stale and boring, can you imagine how it was before relics on t4 defense and intercept and it took weeks to get that 1 last item and then you waiting excitedly and anxiously for the frame / weapon and how rewarding and good it felt when it was done.

 

Because of the timers etc I have actual sentimental value in the weapons I spent time farming waiting and forma'ing and the item feels like its something I accomplished not just another weapon.

The wait time is worth it, and the plat costs to rush aren't all that bad tbh, if I can give any tips is to build the helmet chassis and system before you log off for the night so when you get up you can start building the warframe and tbh idk the exact number to rush a frame but if its 50p lets be honest just grind and get a golden item or 2 and sell em then boom instant warframe.

Waiting 84 Hours For a Warframe to build is easy. I just think it's unnecessary and keeps new players away. I believe removing build times would cause new players to stick around longer. And when there are more players, there are more chances of them spending money.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

1 minute ago, Runecrafting said:

I believe removing build times would cause new players to stick around longer.

If a new player can't manage to entertain themselves for 3 days while a new frame is building, they aren't sticking around.

[Jobistober]

Without build times, the player base would very quickly build all items then whine and complain that there's nothing to do and DE doesn't release enough content.

[Kuestenjung]

43 minutes ago, Runecrafting said:

Waiting 84 Hours For a Warframe to build is easy. I just think it's unnecessary and keeps new players away. I believe removing build times would cause new players to stick around longer. And when there are more players, there are more chances of them spending money.

And I think this wouldn´t happen. You are still hanging around? Like me. Getting rid of the building times would probabbly decrease DEs income due to the fact that the weapon and frame sales would drop.

And somehow I find it funny complaining about 72h build time ( nothing comes out of nowhere ) when I waited for my new car 4 months.

[Runecrafting]

2 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Because then people would rush through the game even faster than they already do. Players finishing content early = people getting bored faster = more people leaving the game early = less people buying things.

This isn't rocket science. There's a reason why the Forums are constantly spammed by requests for 'Endgame' and 'Challenge.' It's because players want something to keep themselves engaged, not something

You're right, it isn't rocket science. The average casual player (those who play after work, school, etc.) only play for a few hours a day. Ranking up a new weapon or frame without going to Akkad or something takes a couple hours. The leveling process takes plenty of time to keep casual players entertained (assuming they do it organically). Removing build times would only affect people that play extensively, and those people are going to get bored of the game before everyone else anyways. What it also does is make the game less ridiculous for new players to get into. The Influx of new players staying due to increased accessibility would offset the players that quit because they rush through everything by playing 8+ hours a day. Not to mention, by removing build times you would have resource shortages which would add playtime because people would have to go acquire them.

More Accessibility = More Players = More Chances for DE to make money = More content

 

2 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

"Objectively." 

And that's where you're wrong. At the very least, all of these games are equally F2P, because in all these games, you can get everything that affects gameplay for free, as long as you put in the time to do it. In Warframe, said grind is arguably better, and you can get things that don't affect gameplay too, as long you put in the time.

Yes, objectively. The difference between Warframe and the games that I mentioned is that once you put in the grind to finally get that Octavia helmet, you then have to wait an additional 12 hours, and for what reason? Because they want to drip feed content to their players? You know who else does that? Destiny, and look at what happened to that game. The Playerbase shrunk down to a fraction of a fraction of what it once was.

I don't complain about wait times because I'm impatient. I've made it to mastery 10, I think I can handle the grind. I complain about them because I think they're hurting the game instead of helping it. Obviously, you disagree.

[PrVonTuckIII]

41 minutes ago, Runecrafting said:

The average casual player (those who play after work, school, etc.) only play for a few hours a day. Ranking up a new weapon or frame without going to Akkad or something takes a couple hours. The leveling process takes plenty of time to keep casual players entertained (assuming they do it organically). Removing build times would only affect people that play extensively, and those people are going to get bored of the game before everyone else anyways.

I don't know about you, but by my standards, a 'few' hours (by which I assume you mean over two) is rather extensive, depending on your age and commitments. A game that can be 'completed' within a short span of time is one that will make little money. That goes doubly so for F2P games. 

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The Influx of new players staying due to increased accessibility would offset the players that quit because they rush through everything by playing 8+ hours a day. Not to mention, by removing build times you would have resource shortages which would add playtime because people would have to go acquire them.

I think you're vastly overestimating how impatient people are. As many others in this thread have said, the wait times aren't even an issue. As you yourself said, people generally only play for a short period of time, or in other words =>2 hours a day. They could farm what they need in the that time, and by the time they come back, that Warframe will be ready to construct. Repeat for a few days, and there you go. No one, except you, thinks that this is a good idea. 

Build times are just there, as I've said, to keep people from rushing through content. 

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Not to mention, by removing build times you would have resource shortages which would add playtime because people would have to go acquire them.

1) Lolwut? Warframes are far from the most resource-intensive thing in the game. Aside from exceptions like VaubanP or Wukong (who requires a lot of Nitain), Warframes are relatively easy to farm for, with the only resource that is ever lacking being Argon Crystals, for obvious reason. People beyond MR3 will generally have the needed resources on hand for constructing Warframes.

2) I'd rather have build times, and being able to do whatever I please during that time, like playing a quest, or unlocking a new planet, etc - than being forced into a grind for resources. I'm not sure about you, but that sounds like a nicer formula for $$$ than yours.

You know who else does that? Destiny, and look at what happened to that game. The Playerbase shrunk down to a fraction of a fraction of what it once was.

It seems Warframe players have proven you wrong, because while Destiny's playerbase is apparently (I wouldn't know, I'd assume it would have gone up after RoI) going down, Warframe's has been steadily going up (26 mil at the time of the Steam Awards to 30 mil as of the yearly infographic). Not only that, but Warframe is doing far better, with the 'flaw' that you think it has, in multiple countries, unlike Destiny, whose playerbase is mainly North American.

And for the record, on an unrelated note, Destiny is a fun game IMO, overall. I enjoyed it.

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I complain about them because I think they're hurting the game instead of helping it. Obviously, you disagree.

That is correct, and it seems the majority of players, if this thread is of any statistical significance, which it should be, also disagree. While consensus doesn't usually make something right, it would appear that the majority of the players like/don't mind it (I mean, most complaints here are directed at the endgame, farming, and powercreep, not this non-issue), and the game is only doing better, so in the end, you are -objectively- wrong, and unless you can prove otherwise.

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII