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Invisibility: Ash, Octavia, and Loki


Jet-Sreym
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Since Octavia's release, I've noticed that her invis buff is way, WAY better than Loki's invis or Ash's invis, which is silly to me because they're supposed to be the more stealth oriented frames, are they not?

Here's what I propose to fix this: Make Loki's invisibilty and Ash's Smoke Screen castable before they've worn off.

It makes it so they are on par with being able to keep invisibilty up indefinitely, just like Octavia can as long as she keeps metronome up.

I didn't mention Ivara since I feel her invis works differently than Loki, Ash, or Octavia's, with being able to steal from enemies and the augment that lets her walk through lasers.

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Or nerf Octavia. She's the only one that can sustain her invisibility indefinitely without much hassle, she has an incredibly potent ability that absorbs damage and turns it back on the enemy, she buffs armor, overall damage, can charm enemies and increase melee damage, multishot or movement speed for herself and her teammates. Every ability of her is outclassing similar abilities of other frames. Giving her a more specific role instead of a walking buff-dispenser would not harm her.

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4 hours ago, Jet-Sreym said:

Octavia is probably due for a nerf of some kind, but I still feel like Loki and Ash's invis should be re-castable.

I think Octavia isn't due for a nerf, Loki's Invisibility is fine mostly because it costs less and is less of a hassle to use. Plus, the rest of his kit makes up for this lack of permanent invisibility.

Ash is most likely due for a buff sometime soon. The rest of his kit make him still usuable but he definitely needs a buff after his Bladestorm rework. It costs much less than Loki's or Octavia's invisibility. Ash has definitely fell really really hard and now he's probably getting close to be in line with Zephyr or Hydroid. 

Ivara is more in line with Octavia in terms of balance. Octavia has permanent invisibility but not much else. Her Mallets do deal a lot of damage but she lack utility or recastability rather than her Metronome. She's also really slow at dealing damage unlike what the YouTubers make you believe. Her damage only creeps up when you hit higher levels and even that take a long time to build up. Loki can drawn aggro and disarm enemies and do spy missions much easier than Octavia so there is really no question.

Ivara has similar problems. She can kill really quickly but she lack mobility. She is better because she can CC, deal loads of damage, create Dash wires, and loot. What can Octavia do? Not much overall. 

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Im okay with how loki is. Hes perfect for now. Ash would be better if his duration was increased to lokis time. Octavia... well ive played with her using a min/max song and its just not worth to me. The constant ducking more often than not slows me down more than a simple loki recast. And her damage is unreliable for me since you can only have one mallet at a time and it only gets attacked if its closer to enemies than you or teammates 

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23 hours ago, ChameleonBro said:

I do not want to see such buffs to Loki and Ash. Loki is literally easy mode for warframe, don't want to see him be more of that.

easy mode, yeah. wait until your enemies can do harm to you, than your invis is worthless, bombards kill you in one hit, even with quick thinking you are die very fast, but hes awesome at that what he does. 

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On 28/4/2017 at 0:26 AM, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Ash is most likely due for a buff sometime soon. The rest of his kit make him still usuable but he definitely needs a buff after his Bladestorm rework. It costs much less than Loki's or Octavia's invisibility. Ash has definitely fell really really hard and now he's probably getting close to be in line with Zephyr or Hydroid.

How about this:

Smoke Screen now has a dual function ability:

Tap makes Ash throw the bomb at his feet, creating a 4m radius smoke that lasts for 12. Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies who are caught in the cloud or enter it choke (stun animation like Banhsee's silence) for 3s, leaving the open for Finisher attacks.

'Hold' the ability (has a fixed 1s hold and then goes off, so the player can't nor need to hold longer) to create the smoke cloud in whatever surface Ash is aiming at a default (maxed ability) range of 20m

Smoke Shadow makes allies get same invisibility as Ash.

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10 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

What about ivara? If you go for max efficiency and duration you can technically in permastealth.

You don't even need duration for that.  Just max efficiency to have perma-stealth with Ivara.  Depending on gear, might not even need max Efficiency.  

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Well, if you allow recasts, then why not also allow say, Iron Skin to be recast before it wears off? I still don't understand why we have to "exploit" the "fall into a pit at 1% Iron Skin in order to reset it back to 100% after all, we are far less likely to carry out certain actions when we can't control the timing the way we want.

I just never understood the reason in making some things time out before we can recast other then forcing us to spam a button while it ticks the last second.

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On 01/05/2017 at 0:45 PM, DSpite said:

Well, if you allow recasts, then why not also allow say, Iron Skin to be recast before it wears off? I still don't understand why we have to "exploit" the "fall into a pit at 1% Iron Skin in order to reset it back to 100% after all, we are far less likely to carry out certain actions when we can't control the timing the way we want.

I just never understood the reason in making some things time out before we can recast other then forcing us to spam a button while it ticks the last second.

Use his Iron Skin Augment. It blasts enemies away and allows you to recast as well. In conjunction with Ironclad Charge Augment, you'll never have Iron Skin issues.

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On 4/30/2017 at 2:24 PM, Vanrythzx said:

easy mode, yeah. wait until your enemies can do harm to you, than your invis is worthless, bombards kill you in one hit, even with quick thinking you are die very fast, but hes awesome at that what he does. 

They won't hit or target you unless they see you. You'll only get hit if you run into the grenade itself.

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loki is meant to be that of trickery, stealth is a part of that.

ash is meant to be a ninja.  stealth is a part of that.

ivara is meant to be a stealth dominant bow/projectile user.  

thing is her shtick is more about stealth then ash or loki, however she is also far less mobile when using it.  I dont see a big issue.  

Loki's lasts longer then ash, costs more and has a lock up animation associated.  

Ash's lasts the shortest, is the fastest to cast, cheaper to cast then loki,  doesnt lock up your momentum, is supposed to stagger and open up targets to finishers.  

Ivara's is perma invis so long as you keep energy going, vastly lowers your movement potential.  

granted shes what id say is the "safest" of the stealth frames, especialy with the right mod on a spy mission.

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