Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[ImmortalGryphon]

in all honesty i agree with the OP BUT! i did some testing with oberon and imho people are too focused on trying to make oberon a dps frame, instead i tried making him into a tank frame and i must say the results were amazing, with growing power, rage, blind rage, transient fortitude, narrow minded, primed flow, primed continuity, vitality, and quick thinking, i was getting around 600-700 armour from the 2 and 3 synergy, 100+ health regen per second, and nearly unlimited energy from rage. Narrow minded is no longer a must have since oberons 3 is now a toggled ability but the other mods make oberon into one of the most tankiest frames in the game, almost on par with nidus, chroma, and valkyr.

[Revenant]

Post below: 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Arch_Magus

[Revenant]

My suggestion for the following Oberon changes, the redditor who made these actually has a fair point. 
 

 

[Wrum]

7 minutes ago, ImmortalGryphon said:

in all honesty i agree with the OP BUT! i did some testing with oberon and imho people are too focused on trying to make oberon a dps frame, instead i tried making him into a tank frame and i must say the results were amazing, with growing power, rage, blind rage, transient fortitude, narrow minded, primed flow, primed continuity, vitality, and quick thinking, i was getting around 600-700 armour from the 2 and 3 synergy, 100+ health regen per second, and nearly unlimited energy from rage. Narrow minded is no longer a must have since oberons 3 is now a toggled ability but the other mods make oberon into one of the most tankiest frames in the game, almost on par with nidus, chroma, and valkyr.

ta bleeping da this guys got it right! i never understand why some people try do make frames do something there not supposed to do.

[SenorClipClop]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)bullet1351 said:

Spoiler

Oberon's smite takes the health from enemies and then the orbs deal 20% of that targets health each. This is not good damage It can't kill anything whether it is level 100 or 1 why? 2 reasons

1. It does not account for armor which adds resistance to the damage enemies take to their health so no matter what no an armored enemy will survive.

2. The orbs deal radiation damage. Most infested and some shields resist radiations damage. So the orbs don't deal full damage

So smite deals no damage no matter the faction you are fighting.

DEmegan posted that they are aware its not doing damage so they are adding more damage to the initial hit and taking shields into account with this change oberon "might" kill corpus enemies but it will still not work against grineer infested.

 

 

You're a patch late with this complaint, Tenno. Smite now deals 500 base damage + 35% of the target's health and shields. I'm not sure what kind of build you're running, but mine is only at ~140% Strength and can one- or two- shot enemies around Level 35.  Oberon is primarily a support Warframe, so this is a pretty generous amount of damage to have on a cheap, one-handed skill that auto-targets and applies two status conditions.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

Now that we have this update, I would like to update what I believe would get Oberon the changes he needs 

1) Make Smite scale off of enemy Health, Shields, AND Armor. This would allow much stronger Smite to hit decently hard for end game content.

2) Make each one of Smite orbs deal ~7% (EACH, not total) of the initial target's Health, Shields, and Armor like above.You can boost this to 20% base if you make it so orbs can not hit the initial target. This would allow Smite to be more strategic, targeting the largest threat and using their bulk to their friend's disadvantage. 

3) Make Reckoning + Hallowed Ground armor shred based on the target's total Armor, not their current armor. You can keep the non-stacking loophole. This is because (for example), off the top of my head, 2 Corrosive Projections would screw over Armor shred of the current system. Let me explain. Let's assume the enemy has 100 armor for simplicity, 2 Corrosive Projections would turn that into 40 armor. Let's assume that we're shredding 50% of the enemy armor since most builds would be in high 40's to low 50's. The current system would leave the enemy with 20 armor left, meaning you might as well equip Corrosive Projection yourself. I HATE when your team mates can be detrimental to your Warframe's skill. But if this combo worked off of Total Armor, this would mean Oberon equipped with Corrosive Projection can remove 80% of armor BY HIMSELF! That is insane and would definitely give him a good role to provide as a tanky offensive support.  

4) Not only make Hallowed Ground easier to see,but please give it a small boost to those tho are on it or increase it's radius. We need an better way to keep team mates on the magic carpet which gives all team mates a weaker form of Nidus' Godly defense. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Phalian

[Chroia]

53 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Note that they introduced Tenno Affinity at the exact same time and had Blessing's range work off of it, Tenno Affinity is designed to promote sticking together.

Slight correction: Affinity range already existed, they just gave it a UI indicator.

[LokiTheCondom]

1 minute ago, Phalian said:

4) Not only make Hallowed Ground easier to see,but please give it a small boost to those tho are on it or increase it's radius. We need an better way to keep team mates on the magic carpet which gives all team mates a weaker form of Nidus' Godly defense. 

As per patch notes, they're still working on better visuals for Hallowed Ground.

[AzoreanEve]

2 hours ago, NeonNemesis said:

Unless the wave in the new renewal is for show, you know you can outrun it? I never managed to with the orbs.

Last time I used Oberon and I tried to heal someone in my team with low health, I just never saw them get healed at all. So idk about outrunning but apparently in some situations the orbs just wouldn't work.

[(PSN)theelix]

18 minutes ago, chofranc said:

It does 35% of the max health+max shield of the enemy, with that it can kill lvl20 enemies easily. 

The initial damage is doing all the work, not the 35%. 

Especially since 35% of something will forever and always not be = or > 100% of their health. 

Even against an enemy that has 1000 health, 35% of that added to the damage is just... 350 damage, for a total of 850 damage, the 500 coming from the initial damage. And that 35% just gets less effective as the enemy goes down in level, it's worthless. The only time it would ever be helpful is when the 500 damage is slightly too little to kill the enemy instantly. 

9 minutes ago, ImmortalGryphon said:

in all honesty i agree with the OP BUT! i did some testing with oberon and imho people are too focused on trying to make oberon a dps frame, instead i tried making him into a tank frame and i must say the results were amazing, with growing power, rage, blind rage, transient fortitude, narrow minded, primed flow, primed continuity, vitality, and quick thinking, i was getting around 600-700 armour from the 2 and 3 synergy, 100+ health regen per second, and nearly unlimited energy from rage. Narrow minded is no longer a must have since oberons 3 is now a toggled ability but the other mods make oberon into one of the most tankiest frames in the game, almost on par with nidus, chroma, and valkyr.

The overall tone of the character doesn't really change that they added bad scaling into an ability. I mean, it's nice that he can soak up a lot of damage, and that's his main role, then why does his first ability not reflect this and instead aim to do scaling damage? Why not instead give it scaling status duration and/or status effect strength based on the same factors, health and shield, but increase the status duration by seconds? It would make way more sense than just giving him more damage on a kit that really doesn't focus on it at all. 

[Sannidor]

4 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

You're a patch late with this complaint, Tenno. Smite now deals 500 base damage + 35% of the target's health and shields. I'm not sure what kind of build you're running, but mine is only at ~140% Strength and can one- or two- shot enemies around Level 35.  Oberon is primarily a support Warframe, so this is a pretty generous amount of damage to have on a cheap, one-handed skill that auto-targets and applies two status conditions.

Level 35... This is not the level of challenge we wanted to face with Oberon. Doing almost no damage to level 80 is a problem. Anything above that is barely tickled.

[Agent40]

Complain some more? Why is it every time a frame or weapon changes people find a way to complain? Can't you just be happy that DE actually took the time to look into it and rework him?

Going at that as well, I don't believe that Oberon was ever meant to be a full DPS frame. And as previously said if he can still kill opponents below level 30 then hes still good for mid gameplay.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Agent40Infinity

[SenorClipClop]

1 minute ago, Sannidor said:

Level 35... This is not the level of challenge we wanted to face with Oberon. Doing almost no damage to level 80 is a problem. Anything above that is barely tickled.

It's just an example. At higher levels Smite won't deal much damage, but neither will basically any other Warframe's first power (except maybe Nidus or Excal, maybe). But I mean, since it'll also be dealing percent health, that's some scaling, right?

[n_0x]

We are happy that he got the "rework" the complaints are that he does the same if not arguably less than he did before. We wanted a brand new kit (no beastmaster included) and what we got felt like a stab in the heart. That's why we complained.

Edited April 27, 2017 by n_0x

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

2 minutes ago, Agent40Infinity said:

Complain some more? Why is it every time a frame or weapon changes people find a way to complain? Can't you just be happy that DE actually took the time to look into it and rework him?

I don't mean to be rude, but that is one of the worst arguments I hear here on the forums. Just because DE reworked him, doesn't mean he's good. After the initial rework got criticism, they tweaked him to accommodate the players. DE works with the community to make a better frame, they don't just forget about it and move on.

[NeonNemesis]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Well, they have already departed a bit from custom in that oftentimes there are no changes after a rework, they "listen" and then don't change anything. This time they have already changed some things, just a few minutes ago in fact, so I have some hope they are indeed, actually listening. They have proven it by already making some changes, after we complained, after the rework. 

And yes, it would have been smarter for them to have had a megathread prepared from the beginning, but merging everything after the fact is not to censor you, it is to organize the feedback for easier viewing. Better late than never, IMO. 
 

I am hoping to see yet more changes to Oberon still. 

Sometimes I hate being right, but like I told you this was shoved  in here AKA the trash can because they don't care. The changes have already been deployed. 

27 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Blessing needed a nerf but they did that in a way that promoted staying together, they also nerfed it's DR so that the Trinity had to work on monitoring peoples' HP more than just giving them 99% DR. Note that they introduced Tenno Affinity at the exact same time and had Blessing's range work off of it, Tenno Affinity is designed to promote sticking together. In fact, even if Renewal kept its infinite range, you wouldn't want to be far from your team anyway, because of Tenno Affinity. 

That sniper analogy implies that a) that was the 100% only way they could have shot two guys and b) that splitting up from your team in Warframe actually gives you any advantage whatsoever. It dilutes spawns, part of the affinity isn't coming to you, and even if you do have an infinite range heal, Renewal took time to get there, and if they died anyway you still have to go over and get them up, with the commute there putting their life at risk. Really SWAT snipers or whatever don't translate to anything in Warframe, SWAT teams don't have energy shields and magic parkour, SWAT's enemies don't come in waves of 100, and SWAT guys can't actually harness Void energy through the power of a child that is remotely controlling them and using the energy to cast basically-magic-spells. As you even say, IRL there is no way to heal like in WF so the idea that SWAT snipers can be compared to healing team mates far away has no common ground for comparison.

Gonna be honest can't remember when the affinity was introducced, but IIRC the DR came afterwards, they 1st nerfed the range and made DR scale with how low your HP was that lead to the glaives + QT build and then after everyone wasrunning with 99% DR they nerfed it again.

So ok let's scrap swats, missions like sabotages and Kuva fortress missions for caches and syndicates for rep itens promote the team to be distribued across the map, the bigger maps of interception undeniably promote that unless you want to capture 1 while losing 2 others (there's a reason the most heard things in this mission is everyone at his point), heck even Void fissures promote that when you can't find enough traces. Also the latest type of missions the Infested salvage needs you to seperate the team across 3 points, and it is teamwork.

27 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Ah my mistake I assumed you were talking about Oberon being brought to stuff.Trinity has healing as her specific skillset; she's a favourite pick for coordinated teams, but a team with a coordinated set of builds probably won't ever need to bring an Oberon because 4 people with synergetic Warframes won't need an all-round Frame, especially not in a Trial with 8 people. with 4 different people choosing a team, you can bring Trinity for healing, some CC like Nova/Nyx/Loki, for Trials you want specifically Frost in LoR and Nekros in JV, and then really just another Trinity and more CC. You don't ever NEED an Oberon, and if he's in a coordinated team which has already filled its specific requirements for CC and healing then an Oberon isn't going to fill in the missing links in a team, and that's the point of him. That means that he's never going to be a top pick, but players can pick him and do alright with him if they want to.

You know I'm trying to remember about the context of my answer but I can't remember and now the threads are a freaking mess, but I think it had to do with you saying that Oberon's kit did more and trins kit lacking in those areas so it had to be more powerfull so I posted those examples as the late game stuff Trin always has place but no one considers Oberon (correct me if I'm wrong not sure if it was this).

My point on this was that Oberon's kit was already inferior and even the only advantage he had over Trinity (infinite range) didn't made any impact on the moment of choosing between them, so I still say there was no need to nerf his range, the ability would still be compatible, it still wouldn't put Oberon close to Trinity in the healing department, and most important, it wouldn't have been a massive nerf on his kit making allies shrugging even more from someone that picked an Oberon. 

27 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Equinox has lots of stuff, but Oberon's healing applies directly to him straight away, and he can get armour and such, while Equinox's healing requires her/him to first cast Mend, build up damage, then activate it later to heal, and her/his hard CC for protection is only an area target, not full AoE around them. Also, Equinox's big damage ability doesn't allow him/her to heal while it's up. Basically, Equinox is much squishier without map lockdowns, while Oberon lacks power play but can keep himself alive without too much effort. He's an all round frame that quickly deploys his abilities, while Equinox is an all-round frame that deploys stuff slower and with less immediate danger removal. 

The big argument is over whether it's even a buff, which it really seems to be to me, but overall Oberon will never be as powerful as any other frame at specific things, so making him worth playing is always going to require the player to specifically enjoy his playstyle and abilities, not just that he's an all rounder.

The thing is when Equinox goes for the damage with his ulti he deal a freaking amazing damage that matches the best dps in this game, so there you have it a jack of all trades that matches the best of an area. He needs to build it? Yes indeed he needs to, but the end result will shame many dps frames, while Oberon is outclassed by every frame at every area.

It's not like I'm asking for Oberon to be the new Nuke frame or to give an absurd heal and DR that takes Trinity out of the game. The only thing I want is the infinte range heal that never posed any kind of threat to Trin's throne of healers so that I can help allies rather than feeling like a jerk that only heals himself and someone that happens to be nearby

[(PSN)theelix]

11 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

It's just an example. At higher levels Smite won't deal much damage, but neither will basically any other Warframe's first power (except maybe Nidus or Excal, maybe). But I mean, since it'll also be dealing percent health, that's some scaling, right?

Ash, Excal, Rhino, Atlas, and Mesa all have way better scaling. 

Also, its damage type is why the scaling doesn't matter, as OP said. Though puncture and radiation are supposed to be strong against the armors, the damage is being reduced regardless. So it doesn't deal any additional damage that really matters after Initial damage stop doing real work.  

 

Edit: And it's also worth mentioning that the other abilities that don't focus on damage are harder CC than Oberon's one. Oberon's one puts on radiation that doesn't guarantee you to be ignored, and it only reduces damage by 30%, as well as a light knockdown which can have its animation skipped by other effects, or not applied at all. 

It's a CC ability that has a scaling in damage and not CC, is what I have a problem with. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by (PS4)theelix

[Chipputer]

10 minutes ago, n_0x said:

We are happy that he got the "rework" the complaints are that he does the same if not arguably less than he did before. We wanted a brand new kit (no beastmaster included) and what we got felt like a stab in the heart. That's why we complained.

You didn't want anything but a new meta frame. The people who actually main Oberon are perfectly fine with this rework because it's Oberon 2: Better Oberon and it didn't completely ruin him.

All of you armchair developers and Noberons who are suddenly coming out of the woodwork are really driving me up the wall.

[Agent40]

8 minutes ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

I don't mean to be rude, but that is one of the worst arguments I hear here on the forums. Just because DE reworked him, doesn't mean he's good. After the initial rework got criticism, they tweaked him to accommodate the players. DE works with the community to make a better frame, they don't just forget about it and move on.

First off, No Harm was taken into reading.

Second off, It wasn't an "Argument" to begin with. It was a statement stating a fact of occurrence. I wouldn't have said anything if I thought this thread would be helpful in any way. The difference between a Complaint and a Suggestion (which is what this should have been and it was you are taking it as), Is that a complaint doesn't give an idea to counter what is wrong about that specific topic. If this were a productive "Working with the community thread" then there would have been a suggestion to counter what is wrong with Oberon's scaling and damage at his current stage and given an idea to what should be done.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

3 minutes ago, Agent40Infinity said:

First off, No Harm was taken into reading.

Second off, It wasn't an "Argument" to begin with. It was a statement stating a fact of occurrence. I wouldn't have said anything if I thought this thread would be helpful in any way. The difference between a Complaint and a Suggestion (which is what this should have been and it was you are taking it as), Is that a complaint doesn't give an idea to counter what is wrong about that specific topic. If this were a productive "Working with the community thread" then there would have been a suggestion to counter what is wrong with Oberon's scaling and damage at his current stage and given an idea to what should be done.

I see your point. To add a bit of constructive criticism to this thread, I'll link a couple reddit posts that really hit the nail on the head.

 

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Earlier today we stated the above coming changes to Oberon.

These have been further tweaked and are now live: 

 

 

Some questions:

1) With smite being touched again is either the new base damage or scaling from enemy hp+shields effected by power strength?

2) Since renewal is now toggle does it still expand out like nova's wave or is it just an instant AOE dictated by range?

3) What about the armor bonus from casting renewal while on hollowed ground?  Does that stay on oberon and effected allies as long as it's toggled on?  What if the allies that get the bonus leave renewals range?

thanks in advance.

[NeonNemesis]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

You didn't want anything but a new meta frame. The people who actually main Oberon are perfectly fine with this rework because it's Oberon 2: Better Oberon and it didn't completely ruin him.

All of you armchair developers and Noberons who are suddenly coming out of the woodwork are really driving me up the wall.

It ruined his savior of teammates role to the point that the bleedout extension could be removed. There's no reason for a bleedout extension when the target needs to be close to you, in the time you cast it you might as well go there and revive him.

But onto the smite what people wanted was a nuke on his 1 that you could last several times that bombardier and everything around him dies, sorry guys not gonna happen Limbo the nuke frame 2.0 isn't here. Quite frankly Oberon would benefit far more from making the secondary orbs taunt enemies into attacking smite's the main target.

[StopherSylvia]

14 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

I don't agree with total armor, he doesn't have enough base armor to benefit greatly from a total armor increase

 

14 hours ago, LunarEdge7 said:

This part is what Mogamu didn't want, helping only the survivability of tanks and not your other allies who aren't tanks. I agree with him.

I didn't say to remove the additional armor buff, keep the additional armor buff and add the old armor buff % back, with both buffs my Oberon would have ~1300 armor while inside Hallowed Ground aka less than Valkyr Prime, but a decent amount nonetheless. I was saying that the additional armor buff is SUPER helpful, but Oberon remains to weak to survive a stand and fight situation, Granted I haven't tested the new changes in update 20.3.1, but I doubt he can out heal a level 100+ Corrupted Heavy Gunner's Gorgon with such low armor (or heal enough to allow him to kill her first without the most meta of weapons on backup), thus meaning at a high level missions staying in Hallowed Ground is pointless after he casts Renewal. (I use the heavy gunner as an example beacuse Chroma, Valkyr, Inaros, Nidus, Frost, Volt, Atlas, Nezha, Rhino, and others don't fear a single level 100 Corrupted Heavy gunner.)

EDIT:

So I tested in the Simulacum and, while there is still not much point on standing in Hallowed Ground after you use Reckoning twice and get Renewal up (Against a level 100 Corrupted Heavy Gunnner), Oberon CAN fight a level 100 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. While he can't out heal her damage (fine I guess event though against 2 heavy gunners he would be in HUGE amount of trouble) with Rage on his energy bar is almost always full (I use Primed Flow) so 2 Reckonings is not a big deal (I use Blind Rage so 150 energy each) and even with my Grinlok (Grinlok has a riven but is still pretty weak) I can manage to kill her first without even needing to worry about Phoenix Renewal kicking in.

In conclusion:

Oberon: No reason to stand in hallowed ground yourself after you get the Renewal buff because procs are removed at full health with Renewal. Smite still falls off at high levels (that may be intended and understandable). Reckoning is no longer a damage ability but a debuff ability at high levels (may be intended, it works similar to avalanche now).

My only actual complaints are No reason to stand in Hallowed Ground after Renewal and Reckoning are cast and No bonus for using Reckoning on a crowd, you might as well just save Reckoning for a heavy unit and not bother with light unit. 

Which if Smite worked better somehow on specifically light units, the two would pair well together. ie. throw down Hallowed Ground, get your Renewal up, Reckoning to weaken Heavy units, cast Smite on largest Health pool enemy, clean up remaining Heavy units.

Edited April 28, 2017 by StopherSylvia

[MajorTom]

If this is the state that this frame will be at when it gets primed, it will be first time I don't buy Prime Access and I bought all of them(full ones) since I started playing. My SO bought last two(since she started playing). I guess we'll be voting with our wallets. I just don't see any value in current oberon offering and I don't mind waiting for as long as it takes for me to build him since he is MR fodder anyway at this point.

[cookieknife]

Smite. i like it, could have synergy (like radiation cloud hazards) but eh

Hallowed Ground. give it an actual use of it's own besides radiation (which other powers he has can do) and status immunity. like an armor strip per second or a buff to allies

Renewal. award us for healing allies, I've gotten an energy drain up to 7x the base drain. with no reward. give us more armor or health or something.

Reckoning. armor reducer is decent? my opinion atleast. other than that, good cc , god awful damage, and the orb spawn is forgettable make it something that can actually kill.