My clan just recently finished Hema research, and it wasn't that bad.

[Obviousclone]

I like how in a moon clan, even though your clan isn't at 1000 players, you still have to farm the 500k as if you were 1000 active players.

so if you were in a moon clan with 500 active players, you still get massively punished

[Seinerweisen]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

My ghost clan just got enough mutagen to finally finish Hema research. I don't think it was that unreasonable a wait for a niche clan weapon. It was actually fun to have a clan goal that we all slowly contributed to. 

Too many posters on the forum need to have things right away. IMO this is how certain clan goals should feel. They should give us long term objectives. 

Hema outrage was really all about nothing.

Ghost Clan? so you needed like 5k.  Even if all of your members are not active, 5k isnt a terrible number for 5-6 semi-dedicated people. Try grinding out for a Mountain or Moon clan the difference is exponential.   You have the smallest possible clan. Your joke post nearly made me chuckle...

[DreamsmithJane]

How full is your clan, and how active? The outrage is about requiring full participation from a roster maintained at the maximum size for each tier to have a chance at completing the research in a reasonable amount of time, especially for larger clans, where the burden on each active member can be more than 10x the nominal value. A cost of 500 mutagen samples is still an entire workday with Nekros in Derelict Survival. That alone would be a fair long term goal, if it were really 500 per person. But when you consider that most clans are/were not full, and that not all players have time to play every day, you have to realize that Hema research is simply out of reach for some clans. It will take literal years, especially since the only tileset that drops mutagen samples in meaningful quantities requires keys and offers limited rewards otherwise (so the things are not obtained during normal play, but must be deliberately farmed at the expense of playing and enjoying the game).

So, no, people did not get upset over "nothing", and that's actually pretty disrespectful of you. Shame on you.

[MagPrime]

I'm on the fence.

My clan didn't grind itself into a burn out But we did finish the Hema quickly.  

I like having long term goals for clans, but there is some validity to the complaints from the larger clans regarding contribution requirements.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

 

I like having long term goals for clans, but there is some validity to the complaints from the larger clans regarding contribution requirements.

To me it comes down to some of the same issues with the clan event. Should there be 1000 person clans at all? Are we basically expecting too much in terms of management capability? I am in an active Moon Clan that really tries to keep people active, and keep the numbers close to maximum. And I think we still need probably like 75K of the stuff. Sure part of it is this particular resource can't really be passively farmed -- which is an issue specific to the Hema. But it makes me feel that maybe trying to expect that many people to be managed is too much. 

IMO the biggest clan size should be 500 at most. Expecting a warlord and a handful of loyal leaders to keep 1000 or even 500 people active and contributing is a tad unrealistic. In real life people get paid to manage that many people, and there are usually lots of co-managers down the line to lighten the burden, also getting paid money. And Warframe shouldn't feel like a job for the clan organizers. I think in the end, this comes down to Warframe biting off more than it could chew at least for the time being, in terms of clan sizes. 

[Trichouette]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

My ghost clan just got enough mutagen to finally finish Hema research. I don't think it was that unreasonable a wait for a niche clan weapon. It was actually fun to have a clan goal that we all slowly contributed to. 

Too many posters on the forum need to have things right away. IMO this is how certain clan goals should feel. They should give us long term objectives. 

Hema outrage was really all about nothing.

There are many issues with the hema cost and players are right to complain about them.

1. It asks for a gigantic amount of ressource, while none of the other research needs that much. If all research required your clan to farm for weeks, players would be used to it and wouldn't have complained that hard.
2. It requires a ressource that doesn't loot much, and only in 2 different places (1 since eris used to loot waaaay less than derelict) making the farming tedious
3. The devs themselves made the assumption that all clans are 100% active and farming, they even told us to use a meta farm composition (which is ridiculous)
4. The previous research that required mutagen sample asked for something like... 30 or 50, and suddenly 5k

 

and after all this mess, the devs answered with "ok we screwed up and won't do it again but we won't fix the issue to honor the players who farmed for it" which is NOT an acceptable excuse.

So it's ok to :

• make hydroid easier to farm despite all the players who spent days/weeks farming for beacons
• put all archwing gears in syndicate despite all the players who spent days/weeks farming missions to get some very rare parts (which is especially tedious to the players who don't like archwing but wanted the MR exp)
• put nezha in the dojo even though people used to farm these parts and sell them or even buy them from other players
• etc..

But it's not okay to fix something they acknowledged as a mistake ?

 

I do think clan research should take some time before you can fully complete it, but puting an insane amount of rare ressource requirement isn't the solution.

[Hypernaut1]

18 minutes ago, Seinerweisen said:

Ghost Clan? so you needed like 5k.  Even if all of your members are not active, 5k isnt a terrible number for 5-6 semi-dedicated people. Try grinding out for a Mountain or Moon clan the difference is exponential.   You have the smallest possible clan. Your joke post nearly made me chuckle...

I'll give you that. For a ghost clan, the cost was a reasonable long term goal. We did it with 4-5 members casually song to The pool.

Maybe the resource requirements shouldn't scale so steeply. That said, if a moon clan has ghost clan level of activity, they need to downsize and get rid of inactives. I think some clans expand without wanting to manage their members.

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 I think some clans expand without wanting to manage their members.

I am sure there is some of that, but I think overall Warframe simply doesn't have the population support for clans that size right now. I think maximum clan size should be 500 (and even that is generous in terms of size). Active moon clans could be split into two clans of about 500 each with all the same research done, basically cloned "sister" clans, to bring old clans into the new system. That is what I would do if I were emperor of clan size mechanics for a day. 

[YouHaveShamedYoFamory]

45 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I am sure there is some of that, but I think overall Warframe simply doesn't have the population support for clans that size right now. I think maximum clan size should be 500 (and even that is generous in terms of size). Active moon clans could be split into two clans of about 500 each with all the same research done, basically cloned "sister" clans, to bring old clans into the new system. That is what I would do if I were emperor of clan size mechanics for a day. 

and those sister clans would fail within days ;p

[MagPrime]

55 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

To me it comes down to some of the same issues with the clan event. Should there be 1000 person clans at all? Are we basically expecting too much in terms of management capability? I am in an active Moon Clan that really tries to keep people active, and keep the numbers close to maximum. And I think we still need probably like 75K of the stuff. Sure part of it is this particular resource can't really be passively farmed -- which is an issue specific to the Hema. But it makes me feel that maybe trying to expect that many people to be managed is too much. 

IMO the biggest clan size should be 500 at most. Expecting a warlord and a handful of loyal leaders to keep 1000 or even 500 people active and contributing is a tad unrealistic. In real life people get paid to manage that many people, and there are usually lots of co-managers down the line to lighten the burden, also getting paid money. And Warframe shouldn't feel like a job for the clan organizers. I think in the end, this comes down to Warframe biting off more than it could chew at least for the time being, in terms of clan sizes. 

I have to agree that the largest clan sizes are currently unrealistic to manage effectively, especially since DE is basing their numbers on fully active rosters.

It would be nice if the Alliance mechanic could be used to help negate a lot of the issues being seen, both with clan events and research.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

1 hour ago, Trichouette said:

There are many issues with the hema cost and players are right to complain about them.

1. It asks for a gigantic amount of ressource, while none of the other research needs that much. If all research required your clan to farm for weeks, players would be used to it and wouldn't have complained that hard.
2. It requires a ressource that doesn't loot much, and only in 2 different places (1 since eris used to loot waaaay less than derelict) making the farming tedious
3. The devs themselves made the assumption that all clans are 100% active and farming, they even told us to use a meta farm composition (which is ridiculous)
4. The previous research that required mutagen sample asked for something like... 30 or 50, and suddenly 5k

 

and after all this mess, the devs answered with "ok we screwed up and won't do it again but we won't fix the issue to honor the players who farmed for it" which is NOT an acceptable excuse.

So it's ok to :

• make hydroid easier to farm despite all the players who spent days/weeks farming for beacons
• put all archwing gears in syndicate despite all the players who spent days/weeks farming missions to get some very rare parts (which is especially tedious to the players who don't like archwing but wanted the MR exp)
• put nezha in the dojo even though people used to farm these parts and sell them or even buy them from other players
• etc..

But it's not okay to fix something they acknowledged as a mistake ?

 

I do think clan research should take some time before you can fully complete it, but puting an insane amount of rare ressource requirement isn't the solution.

So much this right here^

Edited April 30, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Tesseract7777]

42 minutes ago, YouHaveShamedYoFamory said:

and those sister clans would fail within days ;p

That would be sad. : ( 

I think they could do well though, it would be down to how committed the leaders chosen for those new offshoot clans would be ; P, but I think the game doesn't give us the right mechanics for super large clans. For example, in WoW the biggest clan size is 1000 IIRC, and in open world MMO's, even if a squad is limited to 4-8, you can have many squads fighting alongside each other and have truly large scale clan operations. I think it is difficult for any clan to manage 1000 people within the confines of Warframe, because you are never going to have more than eight clan members actually present in any one mission at any given time. Going back to the Ignis Wraith debacle, literally only two Moon clans actually got the Victory Tier. And them only barely. 

[BornWithTeeth]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

My ghost clan just got enough mutagen to finally finish Hema research. I don't think it was that unreasonable a wait for a niche clan weapon. It was actually fun to have a clan goal that we all slowly contributed to. 

Too many posters on the forum need to have things right away. IMO this is how certain clan goals should feel. They should give us long term objectives. 

Hema outrage was really all about nothing.

I solo farmed it for my Ghost clan weeks ago, and it was total nonsense. Weren't you the guy who fought, down the knife and down to the teeth, insisting that the Hema was perfectly fine and that absolutely nothing about it needed to be changed whatsoever?

[Ditto132]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

My ghost clan just got enough mutagen to finally finish Hema research. I don't think it was that unreasonable a wait for a niche clan weapon. It was actually fun to have a clan goal that we all slowly contributed to.

On 2017-3-2 at 8:00 PM, Ditto132 said:

At what point (resources, time, effort, values) would you start finding it unreasonable to farm/grind/play? Think about it.

 

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Too many posters on the forum need to have things right away. IMO this is how certain clan goals should feel. They should give us long term objectives. 

If players want to have things right away, they would just buy them with plat right away.
They wouldn't be bothered to even wait for research(3 days) and the crafting(12-24 hours) to be completed.

Take Dual Cleavers for example.

The crafting requirements are reasonable yet there are players that still willing to spend plat to get it, as you can see.

Also, if players wanted to have things right away, they would be bothered wasting time posting on the forum and waiting for DE to take action.
There are also players that completed the research and still feel it is unreasonable.

As for long term objectives, few of them already existed.
For example there are Nitain and Daily Tribute.
Players don't need any more unnecessary unreasonable grind.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Hema outrage was really all about nothing.

Fun facts about Mutagen Samples!

[(PSN)robotwars7]

this is a quality salt mine. I usually discourage treading on old ground, but this post was rather artfully done... at trolling.

I didn't find the Hema too much of a slog but it's always easy to say that in a Ghost Clan. all this thread has done has reignite the old Hema Fire. even DE admit they went overboard, and will try not to do that again in the future, though they're still gonna hit clan hard by making events revolve around clan participation.

 

[SeaUrchins]

A long term objective? You can buy it from shop right away lmao

[MagPrime]

29 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

A long term objective? You can buy it from shop right away lmao

Yes, and?

That applies to, what, 90% of the games items?  

[Andaius]

From my understanding it was a set number needed "per person" with the "people" being the max size of your clan. So the problem is that the bigger clans where over bloated, and the majority of them not participating in donating or what not.

[Tuxie]

There's literally no reason to justify the cost for Hema, it's ridiculous for a mediocre mastery fodder weapon.

[Hypernaut1]

What's great about Hema is that it's not a meta weapon. It was easy to wait for. No one in my clan really felt like we were missing out on a great game changing weapon. It was just there as a cool goal to work towards. 

Hopefully the nemesis system feels similar in that it's fun to work towards, feels like a long term clan goal, but not something we all feel like we NEED to complete right away.... And I hope that it scalel fairly with clan size.

[Hypernaut1]

8 minutes ago, Tuxie said:

There's literally no reason to justify the cost for Hema, it's ridiculous for a mediocre mastery fodder weapon.

It being mastery fodder is exactly what makes it fair IMO.  

[TheTimelessChild]

I did spend a lot of time farming in the derelict but found it rather enjoyable. Also I really like the Hema.

[blackheartstar_pc]

6 hours ago, MaximumGam1ng said:

Dude... Oxium farming is relatively easy if you play the game.

Exactly. Just playing the game without trying to force/rush any specific thing will give far more resources than they would ever need for crafting. Sitting on several 10s of thousands of Oxium. Same with Mutagen Samples. Never really payed attention to them till Hema and I had several thousand on both my pc and ps4 accounts. Those just came with playing the game for the enjoyment of killing stuff. No farming required.

[JalakBali]

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

  Uhm the most oxuim i have ever had was 2k...  I need a location where the ospersys appear a lot.

If you killed every oxium osprey you come across in a mission, you'd net AT LEAST 50 oxium in a run, without booster. Running a mid-level Corpus defense mission will net at least 200 oxium. Oxium is only a problem if:

1. You just started so you don't have the kill count.

2. You don't play Corpus map at all and spent your entire game time in Akkad or one of those places.

3. You play other game modes by sprinting towards objective and ignoring enemies you come across.

 

I'm not saying 7,000 is not a lot. But it's an amount that will accumulate by itself in a reasonable time provided you actually run Corpus missions and actually spent the time to kill oxium ospreys instead of ignoring them as they'd suicide and not drop any oxium.  It's not as silly as mutagen samples as those need you to play in maps that require keys.

[Yhonix]

I make it a point to hit Oxium Osprey's with CC as soon as I see them ever since I crafted Zephyr years ago.

 

One quick Magnetize and a Dread shot later and I get 22 more Oxium for the bank. Easy as you please.

 

Farming Oxium is easy as long as you play on Corpus tilesets.