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(Conclave) General Balancing Suggestions [few more items added]


Vyrn
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While Conclave is already fairly balanced, there are some things that could stand to be changed. This won't be an entirely comprehensive list, but, hopefully, it'll cover most "major offenses."

Cold procs
Currently, cold procs are just too potent and last too long (4 seconds). Halving the duration might be sufficient, but I think a reduction to its effect (half as potent? idk) would also work. A bit of both might be the best option, though.

frames

Spoiler

Frost's passive
Even if cold procs were to be nerfed, Frost's passive would still be in a bad place. Why? It punishes players for using one of their three weapons, disincentivizing the use of an already troubled weapon type (melee). This should not be. In the current state, meleeing a Frost, even by complete accident, is often a certain death since the slow applies immediately to the current swing--you get animation locked, and your speed is still heavily reduced afterwards. It's not fun to get slowed because of a Frost you couldn't see who, likewise, didn't know you were there, as can happen surprisingly easily with slide attacks and aerial melee.

Change his passive. I haven't been able to figure out an ideal replacement, but here are some ideas: "Insulated"-- resistant to Cold and Heat procs (maybe just an effect/duration reduction instead of full immunity) or "Ice-Blood"-- resistant to slow effects (again, reduction to effect or duration rather than immunity). They stick close enough to his theme, but they might be too niche. Yes, it would deviate from the PvE passive (which isn't even too useful there, really), but that already happened with some other frames' passives.

Hydroid's passive
Too much damage, too much duration, deceiving hitbox (it appears to be a vertical column instead of the actual tentacle), yadda yadda. See this thread.

a few Prime frames are still direct upgrades to their vanilla counterparts
Do I even need to say why direct upgrades aren't good? Valkyr, Frost, Excalibur, Saryn, and more are all objectively worse than their primes. Adjust EHP / mobility to make things fair, please.

Loki's Decoy
If paired with explosive or visually distracting weapons (e.g. Zarr, Javlok), Decoy becomes incredibly unfun to play against, as your screen (and the playing field around the Decoy) become oversaturated with particles and visual effects (and aoe damage or projectiles, in some cases), especially if the Loki himself joins in as well. I also feel Decoy can be a little too strong in some cases. Reducing its fire rate to maybe half the used weapon's should help with both issues. After all, it should be a Decoy, not a turret. It should also be given the user's name and health bar to aid in the deceit.

This thread echoes the sentient sentiment.

Nyx's Mind Control and Chaos
The main issue here is the lack of visual indicator. While it makes sense thematically to not realize you're under the effect of Mind Control, it is a bad idea mechanically. In the midst of a fight, it's not always clear you've been tagged by those abilities, and, especially in the case of Chaos's 20 second duration, it's often difficult to know if they're even still in effect. Give us a debuff timer on the HUD.

As far as the abilities go, they could use some tweaking as well. MC might not last long, but the stagger paired with the complete inability to damage Nyx (or her allies? I think) makes it a "stop this player from playing" ability. Chaos does the same (at least in FFA) but lasts 20 seconds and has a 20m aoe. Solution? I'm not sure. Maybe just allow affected players to damage Nyx at a reduced rate. -40% from the affected player while keeping its other effects, for example, would be tolerable. It would still be annoying, sure, but at least you'd be able to do something.

Limbo's Rift mechanics
The idea to remove shields upon Rift entry, while interesting, ultimately disincentivized following Limbo even more since he has control over where people can enter and can easily ambush them upon Rift entry. In some ways, it made the Rift even safer for fleeing Limbos. Refer to this thread:

 

 

weapons

Spoiler

Ogris
Some of the PvE buff carried over some into Conclave. As a result, Ogris has a very large blast radius (6m) with high damage (220 blast, 90 impact on direct hit) and a rather fast charge (.8s). Even considering the relatively slow flight speed, that's scary. A reduction to blast radius and damage would be great--perhaps to 4m and 180 blast? Direct hits could still potentially 1-shot low ehp frames, but it would no longer greatly reward mindlessly firing at surfaces remotely close to people or groups. (Those numbers are just a not-so-deeply-pondered example, by the way.)

Akzani
No, really. While Akzani has the same fire rate, accuracy, reload, and damage distribution of Afuris and Dex Furis, it features the same magazine size as Dex Furis but even more damage than Afuris. It's a straight upgrade to both. Either give it identical stats to Dex Furis (16 damage -> 14 damage) or mirror the difference between them in PvE--give Akzani increased max ammo (mag size as well for the sake of "real" benefit) but reduced damage (mag size 50 -> 60, max ammo 150 -> 180, damage 16 -> 13).

Euphona Prime (alt-fire)
EP's alt-fire is just too strong. Yes, it has high spread. Yes, it has horrible falloff. Yes, it can oneshot even the tankiest frames if you get close. Wait, what?

Closing gaps is not difficult in most cases, and EP's ability to dish out obscenely high damage, easily one-shotting damage (281.6) up close is honestly a bit ridiculous. Don't forget it sports a fire rate of 1.5r/s (so hey, you can shoot twice in the first second!) and a magazine size of 5. That's a bit too spammable for that kind of damage, even, in my opinion, when you consider its existing limitations. I don't know how much it should be reduced by, but something really should be done about it. It's simply too effective as a hit-and-run weapon to the point where people seemingly forget about its primary fire.

Pandero's (alt-fire)
Pandero's primary fire is fine, but its alt deals the same damage per shot at a massively increased rate of fire. While accuracy is reduced, it's simply too effective and can often ensure a few hits even at medium range. A good start would be removing the 1.5x headshot multiplier from the alt-fire, as headshots are mostly just luck with it anyway.

Javlok
This one seems like a point of contention as some people feel that it is now balanced. I guess that's part of the problem with mechanical advantages vs statistical advantages, huh? Anywho,

With Javlok's high damage (130 heat + proc), aoe damage (albeit minor), medium fire rate (~1.67/s or so), large hitbox, and access to a large aoe with its throw, it's got a lot going for it. Heck, these even more than make up for its wonky mechanics and travel time. If possible, reduce the projectile size. That should put it into a good place without the need for damage reduction.

Note: I wrongly thought the actual fire rate was higher than it was (not sure why, honestly). Even in light of this corrected information, I still feel it could stand to have its hitbox reduced a little more. It just feels...a bit wrong using it.

Lanka
Unlike the others thus far, Lanka actually needs a buff. It deals less damage than some of the other snipers and bows despite drawing the worst mechanics from both. You also lose your charge if you hold it for a few seconds, similarly to using Daikyu. These wouldn't be as much of an issue if Lanka's electric proc actually dealt the usual ~50% damage, but, alas, that is not the case. Buffing Lanka's damage to ~140 or so and making the forced electric proc deal the expected 50% damage (so ~210 total damage) would be lovely. It would still deal less than Paris, but it would be at most 2 hits on all frames, would have some potentially meaningful aoe damage in a very small radius (assuming you actually hit a player), and would still have its punch through.

Drakgoon
Like Lanka, Drakgoon also needs a buff. Its cons outweigh the pros, but its damage doesn't reflect that. I'm not sure how much it should be buffed by, but it definitely needs some love.

 

mods

Spoiler

Thundermiter
Yes, it's that time again. I have to bring Miter up at least once every post, right? Similarly to Ogris, Miter got affected by its PvE buff. While the base weapon is fine, Thundermiter now gives very high total and potentially 1-shotting damage (261.1 total since the mod adds 100 blast) for a charge of only .75s. Even accounting for the terrible damage type (blast is dealt separately/last), that's a little too strong when you consider the hitbox change (still loving this, btw). Recommendation: revert Thundermiter to -50% charge rate (preferably this instead of fire rate). This restores Thundermiter to a more reasonable 1.5s charge time.

This is more of a minor issue than anything, honestly. The current -mag size does also feel fair (4/8 instead of 10/20), but I still feel that -charge rate may be the better option.

Skull Shots
With Viper's fire rate and spread, it's surprisingly easy to land a headshot. Once Skull Shots is equipped, that gives 2 seconds of just spraying around with Viper's already stupidly deceivingly high damage output (388.26 dps)(I do think this should be reduced a little, honestly). If you happen to land another headshot, then, hey, you get to spray even longer. Reduce the effect of the mod (reduction to .5s like Brain Storm?) and give it a downside. Mods shouldn't be straight upgrades, after all. That reminds me...

Mods in general, especially weapon augments, should have drawbacks
There should be no straight upgrades, whether they be weapons, mods, or frames. Double Tap, Triple Tap, Skull Shots, even Focused Acceleration--these should all come with meaningful downsides. There should be a choice involved, not "might as well use it since this makes me stronger than someone without it."

Examples:

  • Double Tap: also reduces magazine size by 33% at max rank. You gain damage potential at the cost of sustainability. Make your shots count!
  • Triple Tap: also features either a magazine reduction (-30%, same reason as for Double Tap) or a recoil increase (increased damage potential at the cost of increased difficulty)
  • Skull Shots: receives previously proposed nerf + something like -15% damage (trading damage output for increased sustainability)
  • Brain Storm: also reduces damage by ~10% or so (again, less damage output for increased sustainability for more accurate players)
  • Focused Acceleration: also reduces fire rate by maybe 12% when aiming

Again, these are just examples of what I mean (with example numbers), not necessarily proposals. The drawbacks should actually mean something so as to promote variety and planning instead of providing flat buffs to weapons.

NOTE: There are a few exceptions. Spring-loaded Broadhead, for example, doesn't really deserve a drawback since Daikyu needs it in order to stand out. Likewise, Sword Alone is rather necessary for melee users to close the gap and should, in my opinion, be built-in. I know there's a fine line here, but it shouldn't be too hard to discern.

+30% magazine size mods shouldn't be usable on weapons with a base magazine size of 2
Full Capacity, Loaded Capacity, and Maximum Capacity should not be usable on weapons with a magazine size of 2, as they provide a very significant and imbalanced benefit.

Take Bronco, for example. Bronco has very high damage, no falloff, high fire rate and a quick reload, but those are somewhat balanced by high spread and small magazine. However, Full Capacity is usable on it, resulting in a magazine of 3--a 50% increase, even if you rank up the mod only 4 times. With that mod, Bronco is, in theory, capable of over 500 damage in well under a second (instead of 336). Then again, Bronco might not be balanced anyway.

 

Frames' elemental bullet jump mods (Rime Vault, Voltaic Lance, Venomous Rise, Searing Leap)
If you use unranked versions of the mods, they only cost 1 energy per proc (at the cost of reduced damage), which is regenerated almost immediately unless using No Current Leap. With Rime Vault, this is pretty broken. With the others, there are still very distracting visual effects. Either removing the proc from all of them (making them more damage-focused) or converting them to a no-rank mod (like Shrapnel Rounds) with a set energy cost would work.

Disagree with me? Feel like I missed something? (I did exclude stuff.) Discuss below. I might not respond right away because seriously I've been working on this nonsense for a while now and don't want to look at the forums again because I've got some other things to do.

Edited by Vyrndragon
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General:
Abilities should not have ranks tied to frame rank; abilities should always behave as if at max rank.
AoE damage should not trigger tracer mods.
Follow Through should not grant energy on suicide.
And some of my old topics on: Damage over Time, Equinox's Rest, and Rime Vault.

Ogris:
The Ogris's viability varies greatly with the environment, the number of players, and the ability of your opponents to counterplay.
An open map and a competent opponent can easily reduce the Ogris to a slow Daikyu.

And let's not forget that the Ogris is subject to a miscellany of disadvantages:
It cannot use holstered reload mods.
It cannot use flight speed mods.
It can inflict self-damage.
It uses a held-charge mechanic.
Its rockets can be prematurely destroyed by other players, resulting in the user's death.

All this being said, I believe the explosion range may yet be too forgiving; I have occasionally scored hits that I felt were undeserved.
I would not object to a blast radius nerf to 5m. As explosive damage is scaled by distance, this also slightly decreases overall AoE damage.

Euphona Prime:
Tigris 2.0, in convenient hand-held form. Especially as its two fire modes grants increased versatility, the Euphona has no business one-shotting any frame, regardless of engagement range.

Javlok:
Don't be deceived.
The Javlok has a fire rate of 3.33 shots per second and a charge time of 0.3s per shot, but these two limiters compound, resulting in approximately 0.6s between shots, or a functional fire rate of about 1.67 shots per second.
Furthermore, the Javlok's firing mechanic is uniquely awkward. When leading targets, users must account for both the projectile flight speed and the charge delay.
Although excessive in the past, the Javlok's damage has been reduced from 2HK to 3HK on medium frames, and the fireball's hitbox is now approximately a torso length in radius. (See: 1, 2, 3.) I believe it to be well-balanced.

Lanka:
WTB Thunderlanka

Drakgoon:
WTB Thunderdrakgoon

Edited by SevenLetterKWord
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10YSwNYX8aV2P187XyNf3Gjs9HFf-V6BnMsSe2AXiplw/edit#gid=0

  • Braton Vandal is a direct upgrade to the Mk-1 Braton, with 5 more rounds per magazine, and 0.2 more damage per round. Unless the mk-1 is pinpoint accurate compared to the Vandal (which it is not),  then it needs to be changed. 
  • Stock Karak could use a slightly larger magazine capacity (increase it to 24), or it should have much more reserve ammunition (140 rounds). 20 rounds in a magazine it too little for a gun with the same accuracy as other autos, and I find myself at 0/0 ammo with this gun more often than not.

Reloading while holstered should be an innate mechanic, even in PvE. 

Also, since Conclave more often attracts new Warframe players than old PvE players who have amassed insane amounts of resources, mod drain could stand to be lowered across the board. 

 

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A little detail:

Since Javlok is an AoE weapon, it should be put in line with the rest of it's class and be unable to equip flight speed increasing mods (lucky shot in this case)

The benefits of lucky shot on some weapons is way too big when compared to it's drawbacks on them; while a small accuracy loss can be understood on slow precise weapons, automatic rifles like Dera [Vandal] get barely affected by it, making the use of this mod a no brainer on these weapons. How about giving assault rifles their own flight speed mod with a different drawback? I guess it goes in line with OP's suggestion of giving some kind of negative effect to mods without one.

Edit: since passive skills were brought up in OP, we shouldn't forget that Nyx still needs a conclave passive (disarming enemies hit by her powers isn't currently working and could be a little bit op with certain powers like Chaos and Absorb due to their AoE nature)

Edited by Stormdragon
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  • 3 weeks later...

Here are a few more items.

frames

Spoiler

Wukong's Defy
In its current state, Defy costs 50 energy, blocks energy restoration while active, and restores 50% of the Wukong's max health upon taking lethal damage (which ends the ability. Since there is no energy drain over time (even though it's listed in the arsenal) and no real downside other than limiting Wukong's melee channeling and other abilities, users tend to keep it up indefinitely while still being able to flee and heal up (or heal through killing) before even consuming it. Basically, it's a second chance that lasts until used, and it's possible to cast this twice from full energy.

The main issue I find with Defy is that it actually does not limit the Wukong all that much. There is not a good reason to not use it, provided you have sufficient energy, because it is simply better than his other abilities. That's not to say his other abilities are bad. In fact, they're pretty solid. However, Defy just stands out simply because of how easy it is to use (since it requires no thoughtful or careful input) and because it lasts until consumed, giving players an effortless safety net with guaranteed protection (unless they fall off a cliff). If there were an actual reason to not keep it up the entire match, such as an energy drain or blocked healing, it would require actual planning as to when it should be used.

Abilities should not be fire-and-forget. They should perform best when used at the right time, right? Why, then, is there no downside to using Defy long before even engaging in a fight?

Proposal: either block healing while active (both from health orbs and from killing with the restore-on-kill mods) or make it drain energy over time, which seems intended since it's already listed in the ability stats. I'd prefer the latter of the two, although I do feel the listed 5e/s might be too high. At the same time, make it properly give Wukong invincibility for the .5 seconds listed in the abilities tab since that, like the energy drain, seems to be intended. If the 5e/s is kept, the invincibility duration could even stand to be increased to a full second (maybe even 2?). This would more appropriately reward skillful timing.

 

weapons

Spoiler

Castanas vs. Sancti Castanas
Currently, vanilla Castanas deal 43.2 electric damage (before proc), but Sancti deal 82.8. As far as we can determine, there are no other differences between them. This should be rectified, as Sancti are currently a straight upgrade with nearly twice the damage. Make their damage identical or alter mechanics in some meaningful way, such as giving one version slightly less total damage (not halved damage lol) but an increased limit on active Castanas.

Gammacor vs. Synoid Gammacor
vanilla Gammacor: 25 damage, 5 fire rate (125 dps), 30 mag (6 seconds of sustained firing), 90 max ammo
Synoid Gammacor: 4.2 damage, 15 fire rate (63 dps), 65 mag (4.33 seconds of sustained firing), 150 max ammo

All other stats and mechanics are identical. Synoid is a severe downgrade (half the dps, more ammo consumption, shorter-lasting mag) with absolutely no benefit in the current state. I'm assuming something here is not working as intended. Proposal: raise Synoid's base damage to at least 9.2 (no more than 10) and keep the other stats identical. This gives Synoid just over 10% more dps than vanilla Gammacor (20% if going with 10 base damage) at the cost of much worse ammo efficiency and a shorter-lived magazine.

Simulor vs. Synoid Simulor
I have not tried these weapons in a while, so I am unable to confirm this about them. However, going off of the arsenal's stats as well as data gathered by other players, Synoid is a straight upgrade over vanilla Simulor. Synoid sports identical damage to vanilla but increased fire rate, larger magazine/max ammo, and faster reload. Assuming this is accurate (you have access to all the data, after all), raise vanilla Simulor's damage.

Penta vs. Secura Penta
Penta: 157.5 blast damage, 14 impact damage (direct hit only), 1 fire rate, 5 magazine size, 10 max ammo, 20m/s flight speed (going off of player-gathered data)
Secura: 139.4 blast damage, 16.4 impact damage (direct hit only), 2 fire rate, 7 magazine size, 14 max ammo, 25m/s flight speed (going off of player-gathered data)

Considering Secura Penta has twice the fire rate, increased magazine size/max ammo, and slightly increased flight speed, I feel the damage gap should be widened, as there is, functionally, not much of a reason to use regular Penta at all if you have access to Secura. Straight upgrades (this is certainly close enough) should be a no-go.

Sheev
Going off of arsenal stats, Sheev is downright terrible. It under-performs compared to other daggers. Its only boon is the fire AoE and proc on slams, but those are insufficient. A buff to its damage would suffice, considering its whopping 26 damage is much less than even faster daggers.' Also, when is it getting a real buff in PvE? It was promised one shortly after release, but it never came.

Note: I don't have much experience with Sheev, but I'll try it out when I can to personally confirm its poor performance.

 

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Wukong's Defy:
Conclave's Defy is an excellent adaptation from the ability's PvE performance.
For 50 energy, Wukong can add a one-time bonus of 55 health to his EHP. Neither invulnerability nor energy drain applies.
This is a unique implementation that stands out from similar abilities like Iron Skin and Vex Armor.
And there is certainly nothing wrong with having preparatory abilities (like Null Star or Warding Halo), or abilities that are easy to use (like Avalanche or World on Fire).
Such variety creates an interesting gameplay environment for all sorts of players.
The only necessary change is an update to the ability's description in the arsenal.

Direct Upgrade Weapons:
As long as we're listing weapons which strictly outperform other weapons, let's not forget the Bo & MK-1 Bo, and the Aklex & Aklex Prime.
The Bo is identical to the MK-1 Bo in all stats except damage, where it deals exactly one point more.
The Aklex Prime surpasses its default counterpart in all measures except maximum ammo, which I doubt is a significant decision factor for anyone.
The damage of the MK-1 Bo should be increased by one point, and the damage of the Aklex should be increased to slightly more than the Aklex Prime's current damage.

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59 minutes ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Wukong's Defy:
Conclave's Defy is an excellent adaptation from the ability's PvE performance.
For 50 energy, Wukong can add a one-time bonus of 55 health to his EHP. Neither invulnerability nor energy drain applies.
This is a unique implementation that stands out from similar abilities like Iron Skin and Vex Armor.
And there is certainly nothing wrong with having preparatory abilities (like Null Star or Warding Halo), or abilities that are easy to use (like Avalanche or World on Fire).
Such variety creates an interesting gameplay environment for all sorts of players.
The only necessary change is an update to the ability's description in the arsenal.

Different ways to look at it, I guess. I'd prefer a more reactive-style ability where it's best used at a specific time (which also offers counterplay options, like temporarily sparing the Wukong so his energy depletes) rather than an entirely preemptive ability that players inevitably have to brute force though, but I can understand where both sides are coming from. Either way, it should absolutely match up with the ability description.

------------------------------------------------

few more items I missed:

Spira deals around the same total damage (88.5) as Kunai (88.2) and Despair (88.5) despite having to contend with lower fire rate (2.5 vs 3.33) and slightly longer reload (1.0 vs .8). Its altered IPS weighting doesn't make up for this, so a damage boost would be appreciated.

Dual Skana deals a total of 32 slash-biased damage with .833 attack speed. This is very below average for dual swords. Consider Dex Dakra, which features the same attack speed, slightly different IPS weighting, and 44 total damage. Even Dual Zoren, with their 1.17 attack speed, deal more (40 total damage).

Galatine Prime currently deals 1 more damage than vanilla Galatine with otherwise identical stats. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Vyrndragon
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Impenetrable Offense

Currently the resident joke melee mod. It's positive effect (+30% Block) is good but the "Max Energy Required" is just downright stupid, Considering Powers and Channeling are core mechanics of the game and melee playstyle.

Suggestion is simple: change the Requirement to the same Negative effect Martial Fury has, that is halved energy regen.

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10 hours ago, Vyrndragon said:

Different ways to look at it, I guess. I'd prefer a more reactive-style ability where it's best used at a specific time (which also offers counterplay options, like temporarily sparing the Wukong so his energy depletes) rather than an entirely preemptive ability that players inevitably have to brute force though, but I can understand where both sides are coming from. Either way, it should absolutely match up with the ability description 

I agree. It's incredibly high to kill a Defy player simply because they tend to use the skill as much as possible. It's also hard to notice if a player has Defy active but that's another tale.

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On 5/2/2017 at 3:32 AM, Vyrndragon said:

 

  Hide contents

Ogris
Some of the PvE buff carried over some into Conclave. As a result, Ogris has a very large blast radius (6m) with high damage (220 blast, 90 impact on direct hit) and a rather fast charge (.8s). Even considering the relatively slow flight speed, that's scary. A reduction to blast radius and damage would be great--perhaps to 4m and 180 blast? Direct hits could still potentially 1-shot low ehp frames, but it would no longer greatly reward mindlessly firing at surfaces remotely close to people or groups. (Those numbers are just a not-so-deeply-pondered example, by the way.)

 

Javlok
This one seems like a point of contention as some people feel that it is now balanced. I guess that's part of the problem with mechanical advantages vs statistical advantages, huh? Anywho,

With Javlok's high damage (130 heat + proc), aoe damage (albeit minor), medium fire rate (~1.67/s or so), large hitbox, and access to a large aoe with its throw, it's got a lot going for it. Heck, these even more than make up for its wonky mechanics and travel time. If possible, reduce the projectile size. That should put it into a good place without the need for damage reduction.

 

these two weapons i dont feel need any more adjustments at all and here's why.

the ogris might have a huge blast radius but with the way movement and mobility works in conclave i dont feel like having a weapon that deals with "jumpers" is such a bad idea, people have been crying out for a stamina bar for a while now but i feel these weapons serve as a good alternative and forces people who just parasite in games bypicking off weak players and run away on low health to actually focus players in order to maintain a positive kd.

now the javlok fires a slow moving projectile compared to arrows and cant 1 shot a weak frame, the aoe of the weapon only does 10 damage with the primary fire and 80 on the secondary fire however if the javlok aoe hits you directly and weapon itself hits you it can kill you in 1 shot depending on frame (which is the most satisfying thing in conclave by far) the javlok is (on ps4) only used by a few people in conclave.

weapons that need nerfed,

Opticor

the opticor does more damage than it should. its hitscan and its used quite often in conclave, i feel it should 1 shot headshot definatle but it should 2 shot regularly obviously the half charge should also do less damage and in doing so shold proc an impair effect or a cold proc allowing for the half charge to be used tactically and not spammed like it currently is.

Daikyu

On 5/2/2017 at 3:32 AM, Vyrndragon said:

 large hitbox,  it's got a lot going for it. Heck, these even more than make up for its wonky mechanics and travel time. If possible, reduce the projectile size. That should put it into a good place without the need for damage reduction.

with a couple of tweaks you've listed everything wrong with the daikyu. this bow is the plague of ps4 conclave. you cant join a random lobby without a daikyu 1 shotting you even though the arrow goes completely past you. here is all the video evidence of this happening.

first video is me getting 2 kills even though the arrow completely missed and the next videos are of arrows completely missing me and killing me. if ant weapon needs a hitbox fix its this one. i understand this bow should be the best bow. i really do but theres a reason this bow is as popular as it is. it provides no extra level of fun or challenge with hitboxes like these and i honestly felt like washing my hands after using such meta filth.

de should nerf powerful popular weapons first before nerfing underused mechanicaly interesting weapons ( in my opinion)

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Euphona Prime is crazy OP! I see too many players using it. Why does it do a 1-Shot, while my Vectis does a 2-Shot kill unless I aim for the head? 

It doesn't make any sense that a pistol's damage is stronger than  a sniper rifle's damage. What madness is this?!

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Just now, Matoro1992 said:

Euphona Prime is crazy OP! I see too many players using it. Why does it do a 1-Shot, while my Vectis does a 2-Shot kill unless I aim for the head? 

It doesn't make any sense that a pistol's damage is stronger than  a sniper rifle's damage. What madness is this?!

the euphonas primary fire is travel time and has major drop and only 3 shots weak frames like loki while the vectis 2 shots all frames apart from a few with tank builds and is also hitscan. comparing the two is trivial and both have nothing in common at all.

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19 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Opticor

the opticor does more damage than it should. its hitscan and its used quite often in conclave, i feel it should 1 shot headshot definatle but it should 2 shot regularly obviously the half charge should also do less damage and in doing so shold proc an impair effect or a cold proc allowing for the half charge to be used tactically and not spammed like it currently is.

Bringing back the impair to half charged opticor would actually make it an even more spammy gun since the first half charged shot landed would be enough to finish your enemy in a couple of shots while they can barely move. Due to the long duration of cold procs that would be another dumb decision even if it's damage is reduced. About the other part, the BFG having one shot potential on full charge is fine even if it's hitscan, and it's mostly since unlike bows, it can't hold a full charge which also takes a while to complete, so you have to time your shots while at least being aware of your target in order to time your charge and aim at it on the right moment to kill it. Opticor is fine.

19 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Daikyu

On 2017-5-1 at 11:32 PM, Vyrndragon said:

 large hitbox,  it's got a lot going for it. Heck, these even more than make up for its wonky mechanics and travel time. If possible, reduce the projectile size. That should put it into a good place without the need for damage reduction.

with a couple of tweaks you've listed everything wrong with the daikyu. this bow is the plague of ps4 conclave. you cant join a random lobby without a daikyu 1 shotting you even though the arrow goes completely past you. here is all the video evidence of this happening.

Spoiler



 

first video is me getting 2 kills even though the arrow completely missed and the next videos are of arrows completely missing me and killing me. if ant weapon needs a hitbox fix its this one. i understand this bow should be the best bow. i really do but theres a reason this bow is as popular as it is. it provides no extra level of fun or challenge with hitboxes like these and i honestly felt like washing my hands after using such meta filth.

I'm sure this point has been beaten to death and you keep opening new threads ignoring every single explanation and proof of how wrong you are.

Here's another example of the exact opposite to what you're seeing on your end, which makes me wonder how many times you've left a battle unharmed even tough the other player had a perfect shot on you which didn't register thanks to latency.

 

19 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

the euphonas primary fire is travel time and has major drop and only 3 shots weak frames like loki while the vectis 2 shots all frames apart from a few with tank builds and is also hitscan. comparing the two is trivial and both have nothing in common at all.

Euphona primary fire projectile is fast enough to be noticeable only if you start trying to snipe across the map, making it the same as if it was hitscan in actual battle. Secondary fire has a heavy falloff, sure, but one shotting almost anything with it just by going close and shooting with another button. It's high versatility makes it work in a way that, if something manages to survive it's secondary shot, it's high fire rate allows a second shot with any of it's modes depending on how far the enemy gets. Since it's main balance factor is a small ammo pool, I wouldn't mind if it was buffed in exchange for a little bit of damage on it's alt fire + flight speed reduction on primary fire; after all, ammo is rarely an issue since the ammo boxes spread across the map are on groups of 2 or 3, work for any weapon, and you usually need up to 3 of them in order to be full again, and that's only on those extreme cases where you actually run out of ammo.

Edited by Stormdragon
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20 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

Bringing back the impair to half charged opticor would actually make it an even more spammy gun since the first half charged shot landed would be enough to finish your enemy in a couple of shots while they can barely move. Due to the long duration of cold procs that would be another dumb decision even if it's damage is reduced. About the other part, the BFG having one shot potential on full charge is fine even if it's hitscan, and it's mostly since unlike bows, it can't hold a full charge which also takes a while to complete, so you have to time your shots while at least being aware of your target in order to time your charge and aim at it on the right moment to kill it. Opticor is fine.

 

can you explain how exactly? impair procing a target and then being able to time and aim a shotwithout the worry of the player button mashing away makes a lot more sense than 1 shoting a player instantly, it requires more effort and would feel much more engaging. having to charge your shot only when facing an enemy has as much of an effect as having a low ammo pool. literally none. if the shot misses the player will just run away or just spam dodge until the shot is ready. opticor needs to be looked at. it is also over used.

 

20 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

 

I'm sure this point has been beaten to death and you keep opening new threads ignoring every single explanation and proof of how wrong you are.

Here's another example of the exact opposite to what you're seeing on your end, which makes me wonder how many times you've left a battle unharmed even tough the other player had a perfect shot on you which didn't register thanks to latency.

 

so you show a clip, a single clip and then use that 1 clip to try and argue against my 4 clips which were taken from 4 different matches hosted by different people in different update periods and then claim that all 4 is latency and that yours isn't?

wut?....

20 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

 

Euphona primary fire projectile is fast enough to be noticeable only if you start trying to snipe across the map, making it the same as if it was hitscan in actual battle. Secondary fire has a heavy falloff, sure, but one shotting almost anything with it just by going close and shooting with another button. It's high versatility makes it work in a way that, if something manages to survive it's secondary shot, it's high fire rate allows a second shot with any of it's modes depending on how far the enemy gets. Since it's main balance factor is a small ammo pool, I wouldn't mind if it was buffed in exchange for a little bit of damage on it's alt fire + flight speed reduction on primary fire; after all, ammo is rarely an issue since the ammo boxes spread across the map are on groups of 2 or 3, work for any weapon, and you usually need up to 3 of them in order to be full again, and that's only on those extreme cases where you actually run out of ammo.

i agree the alt fire needs nerfed 100% but the primary mode?but to clam that the eauphona has a high fire rate then that means snipers do too.

Edited by (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX
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13 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

the euphonas primary fire is travel time and has major drop and only 3 shots weak frames like loki while the vectis 2 shots all frames apart from a few with tank builds and is also hitscan. comparing the two is trivial and both have nothing in common at all.

Primary fire one the Euphona isn't what's problematic. The weapon still needs a nerf, but not to it's primary fire.

12 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

can you explain how exactly? impair procing a target and then being able to time and aim a shotwithout the worry of the player button mashing away makes a lot more sense than 1 shoting a player instantly, it requires more effort and would feel much more engaging. having to charge your shot only when facing an enemy has as much of an effect as having a low ammo pool. literally none. if the shot misses the player will just run away or just spam dodge until the shot is ready. opticor needs to be looked at. it is also over used.

 Opticor's damage is directly proportional to it's charge when fired. Most frames will not be instagibbed by a partial charge. Any frame that is killed by a low charged shot is a light/ultra light frame, which is acceptable because anyone that chooses a light frame is deliberately sacrificing ehp for mobility. 

12 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

so you show a clip, a single clip and then use that 1 clip to try and argue against my 4 clips which were taken from 4 different matches hosted by different people in different update periods and then claim that all 4 is latency and that yours isn't?

3 of your 4 clips show you being hit by a Daikyu in laggy circumstances. Shots that miss on your screen but still kill you are not hitbox #@*&$@y, it's server/client desync. The player that hit you with a Daikyu would have seen the arrow actually hit you on their screen, despite yours not showing it. The first kill in your first clip shows the arrow connecting with the victim's toes. If anything, it shows how precise the arrow's hitbox is. The second kill is mostly obstructed by your frame, but in one frame the arrow seems to pass through the victim's knees. 

 

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17 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

the ogris might have a huge blast radius but with the way movement and mobility works in conclave i dont feel like having a weapon that deals with "jumpers" is such a bad idea

This is the opposite of the Ogris's strengths.
As it fires a slow-moving rocket, the Ogris is mediocre at combating high-mobility players; its strength lies in air-striking grounded targets.

Facts: 1
(PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX: 0

17 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

Daikyu
this bow is the plague of ps4 conclave my personal imaginary world.
here is all the video evidence of this happening.

[One low quality video of (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX using the Daikyu and three low quality videos of (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX experiencing latency and crying wolf.]

first video is me getting 2 kills even though the arrow completely missed because the arrow hit as expected and the next videos are of arrows completely missing me and killing me client-side hit detection, which I refuse to understand despite having it explained to me multiple times.

Your first Daikyu hit:
d9f5ab5033.png (220×194)723790653d.png (226×167)
A shot to the foot of (PS4)N1netbattlerX, partially obscured by blood effects. Perfectly legitimate.
Facts: 2
(PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX: 0

Your second Daikyu hit:
b9dad57f00.png (169×153)
A shot to the arm of (PS4)You-CanNotEscape. Perfectly legitimate.
Facts: 3
(PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX: 0

The three other videos merely show the nature of client-side hit detection.


@Stormdragon Edit your quoted content to show only what's relevant. No need for everyone to scroll past previews of (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX's videos twice.

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On 5/1/2017 at 10:32 PM, Vyrndragon said:

While Conclave is already fairly balanced, there are some things that could stand to be changed. This won't be an entirely comprehensive list, but, hopefully, it'll cover most "major offenses."

Cold procs
Currently, cold procs are just too potent and last too long (4 seconds). Halving the duration might be sufficient, but I think a reduction to its effect (half as potent? idk) would also work. A bit of both might be the best option, though.

frames

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Frost's passive
Even if cold procs were to be nerfed, Frost's passive would still be in a bad place. Why? It punishes players for using one of their three weapons, disincentivizing the use of an already troubled weapon type (melee). This should not be. In the current state, meleeing a Frost, even by complete accident, is often a certain death since the slow applies immediately to the current swing--you get animation locked, and your speed is still heavily reduced afterwards. It's not fun to get slowed because of a Frost you couldn't see who, likewise, didn't know you were there, as can happen surprisingly easily with slide attacks and aerial melee.

Change his passive. I haven't been able to figure out an ideal replacement, but here are some ideas: "Insulated"-- resistant to Cold and Heat procs (maybe just an effect/duration reduction instead of full immunity) or "Ice-Blood"-- resistant to slow effects (again, reduction to effect or duration rather than immunity). They stick close enough to his theme, but they might be too niche. Yes, it would deviate from the PvE passive (which isn't even too useful there, really), but that already happened with some other frames' passives.

Hydroid's passive
Too much damage, too much duration, deceiving hitbox (it appears to be a vertical column instead of the actual tentacle), yadda yadda. See this thread.

a few Prime frames are still direct upgrades to their vanilla counterparts
Do I even need to say why direct upgrades aren't good? Valkyr, Frost, Excalibur, Saryn, and more are all objectively worse than their primes. Adjust EHP / mobility to make things fair, please.

Loki's Decoy
If paired with explosive or visually distracting weapons (e.g. Zarr, Javlok), Decoy becomes incredibly unfun to play against, as your screen (and the playing field around the Decoy) become oversaturated with particles and visual effects (and aoe damage or projectiles, in some cases), especially if the Loki himself joins in as well. I also feel Decoy can be a little too strong in some cases. Reducing its fire rate to maybe half the used weapon's should help with both issues. After all, it should be a Decoy, not a turret. It should also be given the user's name and health bar to aid in the deceit.

This thread echoes the sentient sentiment.

Nyx's Mind Control and Chaos
The main issue here is the lack of visual indicator. While it makes sense thematically to not realize you're under the effect of Mind Control, it is a bad idea mechanically. In the midst of a fight, it's not always clear you've been tagged by those abilities, and, especially in the case of Chaos's 20 second duration, it's often difficult to know if they're even still in effect. Give us a debuff timer on the HUD.

As far as the abilities go, they could use some tweaking as well. MC might not last long, but the stagger paired with the complete inability to damage Nyx (or her allies? I think) makes it a "stop this player from playing" ability. Chaos does the same (at least in FFA) but lasts 20 seconds and has a 20m aoe. Solution? I'm not sure. Maybe just allow affected players to damage Nyx at a reduced rate. -40% from the affected player while keeping its other effects, for example, would be tolerable. It would still be annoying, sure, but at least you'd be able to do something.

Limbo's Rift mechanics
The idea to remove shields upon Rift entry, while interesting, ultimately disincentivized following Limbo even more since he has control over where people can enter and can easily ambush them upon Rift entry. In some ways, it made the Rift even safer for fleeing Limbos. Refer to this thread:

 

 

weapons

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Ogris
Some of the PvE buff carried over some into Conclave. As a result, Ogris has a very large blast radius (6m) with high damage (220 blast, 90 impact on direct hit) and a rather fast charge (.8s). Even considering the relatively slow flight speed, that's scary. A reduction to blast radius and damage would be great--perhaps to 4m and 180 blast? Direct hits could still potentially 1-shot low ehp frames, but it would no longer greatly reward mindlessly firing at surfaces remotely close to people or groups. (Those numbers are just a not-so-deeply-pondered example, by the way.)

Akzani
No, really. While Akzani has the same fire rate, accuracy, reload, and damage distribution of Afuris and Dex Furis, it features the same magazine size as Dex Furis but even more damage than Afuris. It's a straight upgrade to both. Either give it identical stats to Dex Furis (16 damage -> 14 damage) or mirror the difference between them in PvE--give Akzani increased max ammo (mag size as well for the sake of "real" benefit) but reduced damage (mag size 50 -> 60, max ammo 150 -> 180, damage 16 -> 13).

Euphona Prime (alt-fire)
EP's alt-fire is just too strong. Yes, it has high spread. Yes, it has horrible falloff. Yes, it can oneshot even the tankiest frames if you get close. Wait, what?

Closing gaps is not difficult in most cases, and EP's ability to dish out obscenely high damage, easily one-shotting damage (281.6) up close is honestly a bit ridiculous. Don't forget it sports a fire rate of 1.5r/s (so hey, you can shoot twice in the first second!) and a magazine size of 5. That's a bit too spammable for that kind of damage, even, in my opinion, when you consider its existing limitations. I don't know how much it should be reduced by, but something really should be done about it. It's simply too effective as a hit-and-run weapon to the point where people seemingly forget about its primary fire.

Pandero's (alt-fire)
Pandero's primary fire is fine, but its alt deals the same damage per shot at a massively increased rate of fire. While accuracy is reduced, it's simply too effective and can often ensure a few hits even at medium range. A good start would be removing the 1.5x headshot multiplier from the alt-fire, as headshots are mostly just luck with it anyway.

Javlok
This one seems like a point of contention as some people feel that it is now balanced. I guess that's part of the problem with mechanical advantages vs statistical advantages, huh? Anywho,

With Javlok's high damage (130 heat + proc), aoe damage (albeit minor), medium fire rate (~1.67/s or so), large hitbox, and access to a large aoe with its throw, it's got a lot going for it. Heck, these even more than make up for its wonky mechanics and travel time. If possible, reduce the projectile size. That should put it into a good place without the need for damage reduction.

Note: I wrongly thought the actual fire rate was higher than it was (not sure why, honestly). Even in light of this corrected information, I still feel it could stand to have its hitbox reduced a little more. It just feels...a bit wrong using it.

Lanka
Unlike the others thus far, Lanka actually needs a buff. It deals less damage than some of the other snipers and bows despite drawing the worst mechanics from both. You also lose your charge if you hold it for a few seconds, similarly to using Daikyu. These wouldn't be as much of an issue if Lanka's electric proc actually dealt the usual ~50% damage, but, alas, that is not the case. Buffing Lanka's damage to ~140 or so and making the forced electric proc deal the expected 50% damage (so ~210 total damage) would be lovely. It would still deal less than Paris, but it would be at most 2 hits on all frames, would have some potentially meaningful aoe damage in a very small radius (assuming you actually hit a player), and would still have its punch through.

Drakgoon
Like Lanka, Drakgoon also needs a buff. Its cons outweigh the pros, but its damage doesn't reflect that. I'm not sure how much it should be buffed by, but it definitely needs some love.

 

mods

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Thundermiter
Yes, it's that time again. I have to bring Miter up at least once every post, right? Similarly to Ogris, Miter got affected by its PvE buff. While the base weapon is fine, Thundermiter now gives very high total and potentially 1-shotting damage (261.1 total since the mod adds 100 blast) for a charge of only .75s. Even accounting for the terrible damage type (blast is dealt separately/last), that's a little too strong when you consider the hitbox change (still loving this, btw). Recommendation: revert Thundermiter to -50% charge rate (preferably this instead of fire rate). This restores Thundermiter to a more reasonable 1.5s charge time.

This is more of a minor issue than anything, honestly. The current -mag size does also feel fair (4/8 instead of 10/20), but I still feel that -charge rate may be the better option.

Skull Shots
With Viper's fire rate and spread, it's surprisingly easy to land a headshot. Once Skull Shots is equipped, that gives 2 seconds of just spraying around with Viper's already stupidly deceivingly high damage output (388.26 dps)(I do think this should be reduced a little, honestly). If you happen to land another headshot, then, hey, you get to spray even longer. Reduce the effect of the mod (reduction to .5s like Brain Storm?) and give it a downside. Mods shouldn't be straight upgrades, after all. That reminds me...

Mods in general, especially weapon augments, should have drawbacks
There should be no straight upgrades, whether they be weapons, mods, or frames. Double Tap, Triple Tap, Skull Shots, even Focused Acceleration--these should all come with meaningful downsides. There should be a choice involved, not "might as well use it since this makes me stronger than someone without it."

Examples:

  • Double Tap: also reduces magazine size by 33% at max rank. You gain damage potential at the cost of sustainability. Make your shots count!
  • Triple Tap: also features either a magazine reduction (-30%, same reason as for Double Tap) or a recoil increase (increased damage potential at the cost of increased difficulty)
  • Skull Shots: receives previously proposed nerf + something like -15% damage (trading damage output for increased sustainability)
  • Brain Storm: also reduces damage by ~10% or so (again, less damage output for increased sustainability for more accurate players)
  • Focused Acceleration: also reduces fire rate by maybe 12% when aiming

Again, these are just examples of what I mean (with example numbers), not necessarily proposals. The drawbacks should actually mean something so as to promote variety and planning instead of providing flat buffs to weapons.

NOTE: There are a few exceptions. Spring-loaded Broadhead, for example, doesn't really deserve a drawback since Daikyu needs it in order to stand out. Likewise, Sword Alone is rather necessary for melee users to close the gap and should, in my opinion, be built-in. I know there's a fine line here, but it shouldn't be too hard to discern.

+30% magazine size mods shouldn't be usable on weapons with a base magazine size of 2
Full Capacity, Loaded Capacity, and Maximum Capacity should not be usable on weapons with a magazine size of 2, as they provide a very significant and imbalanced benefit.

Take Bronco, for example. Bronco has very high damage, no falloff, high fire rate and a quick reload, but those are somewhat balanced by high spread and small magazine. However, Full Capacity is usable on it, resulting in a magazine of 3--a 50% increase, even if you rank up the mod only 4 times. With that mod, Bronco is, in theory, capable of over 500 damage in well under a second (instead of 336). Then again, Bronco might not be balanced anyway.

 

Frames' elemental bullet jump mods (Rime Vault, Voltaic Lance, Venomous Rise, Searing Leap)
If you use unranked versions of the mods, they only cost 1 energy per proc (at the cost of reduced damage), which is regenerated almost immediately unless using No Current Leap. With Rime Vault, this is pretty broken. With the others, there are still very distracting visual effects. Either removing the proc from all of them (making them more damage-focused) or converting them to a no-rank mod (like Shrapnel Rounds) with a set energy cost would work.

Disagree with me? Feel like I missed something? (I did exclude stuff.) Discuss below. I might not respond right away because seriously I've been working on this nonsense for a while now and don't want to look at the forums again because I've got some other things to do.

Balanced?! Hah! They broke the stuff over on Xbox horribly. Vectis just got buffed through the roof worse than ever, cut the penta range down to where most people will kill themselves more than the enemy by the removal of flight speed.

All DE had to do was balance the new weapons and reign in valkyr talons reach so it wasn't a kill some 10 feet in front behind and above it. There was great diversity on frames and weapons. 

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3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

Balanced?! Hah! They broke the stuff over on Xbox horribly. Vectis just got buffed through the roof worse than ever, cut the penta range down to where most people will kill themselves more than the enemy by the removal of flight speed.

I checked the Xbox patch notes and found no changes to either the Vectis or the Penta in Conclave in the last six months.

I checked my memory and found no credibility to your name, ever.

You will excuse me then, if I ask you to provide some legitimate evidence to support your claims.

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On 5/23/2017 at 0:24 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

I checked the Xbox patch notes and found no changes to either the Vectis or the Penta in Conclave in the last six months.

He's referring to the change that removed flight speed mods on AoE weapons ("by the removal of flight speed"). That is a change to the penta, but it's for AoE weapons in general. That change did hurt AoE weapons, lot harder to to use effectively past point blank now. That bit does check out.

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On 5/23/2017 at 1:24 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

I checked the Xbox patch notes and found no changes to either the Vectis or the Penta in Conclave in the last six months.

I checked my memory and found no credibility to your name, ever.

You will excuse me then, if I ask you to provide some legitimate evidence to support your claims.

Credibility? I'm the number 1 known user of the penta in conclave on Xbox 1. 

Secondly, I've been playing this game months longer than you have so don't start with this "credibility" nonsense. My voice matters as much as anyones even if they started playing today. 

Thirdly, as sky did say check the patch notes buddy boy. With the flight speed mod taken from the explosive series it is even more at a disadvantage to normal weaponry because of our travel times. I have to use it at close to mid range. At close range newer players will kill themselves from self damage before they kill their opponents. In high powered matches I can't match conventional weapons anymore unless I ambush them. Snipers and bow users I'm outmatched on weapons alone. I don't stand a chance against someone like cfe dragon. He and I were able to go head to head with 2 kills difference between us. Not anymore. 

Last of all, you need to learn how to speak to people properly on the forums. 

Edited by (XB1)Aeries Vendetta
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3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

Credibility? I'm the number 1 known user of the penta in conclave on Xbox 1.

Find me some legitimate evidence for this claim.

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

Secondly, I've been playing this game months longer than you have so don't start with this "credibility" nonsense.

That's weird, because April 20, 2015 definitely isn't months earlier than September 5, 2013.
Care to let me in on your secret time travel tech?

Not that any of this matters, because experience doesn't guarantee credibility, and "start date" doesn't guarantee experience.

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

My voice matters as much as anyones even if they started playing today.

No, frankly, it doesn't.
Would you rather take chess advice from a grandmaster or from someone who "started playing today"?

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

Thirdly, as sky did say check the patch notes buddy boy.

Oh please.
Allow me to remind you that only half of your poorly worded claims were substantiated, and not even by your own action at that.
Find me evidence for any recent buff to the Vectis.

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

you need to learn how to speak to people properly on the forums.

Have I offended your ancestors by asking you to substantiate your claims?

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1 hour ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Find me some legitimate evidence for this claim.

That's weird, because April 20, 2015 definitely isn't months earlier than September 5, 2013.
Care to let me in on your secret time travel tech?

Not that any of this matters, because experience doesn't guarantee credibility, and "start date" doesn't guarantee experience.

No, frankly, it doesn't.
Would you rather take chess advice from a grandmaster or from someone who "started playing today"?

Oh please.
Allow me to remind you that only half of your poorly worded claims were substantiated, and not even by your own action at that.
Find me evidence for any recent buff to the Vectis.

Have I offended your ancestors by asking you to substantiate your claims?

1. Go to the conclave discord and drop my name to any well known conclave player on Xbox one. 

2. April 5, 2013. On my pc account account I'm a hunter class founder but I enjoy console more so I respond with one account only on the forums, the one I use the most. 

3. CFE Dragon who is either number 1 or 2 in conclave right now has used the vectis longer than most. CFE Vulari who runs one of the strongest conclave clans on Xbox would agree. They are both I believe in the conclave discord chat. If they are not available I can put you in touch with them. When the latest update dropped they where 1 hitting every single frame. 

4. Your lack of maturity and professionalism isn't appreciated anywhere in the world. I would appreciate keeping on subject and not personally attacking anyone on these forums in attempt to derail the thread resulting in a useless locked thread. 

Ps. Check your messages 

Edited by (XB1)Aeries Vendetta
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56 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

2. April 5, 2013. On my pc account account I'm a hunter class founder but I enjoy console more so I respond with one account only on the forums, the one I use the most. 

As I said earlier:
"Not that any of this matters, because experience doesn't guarantee credibility, and 'start date' doesn't guarantee experience."

56 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

3. CFE Dragon who is either number 1 or 2 in conclave right now has used the vectis longer than most. CFE Vulari who runs one of the strongest conclave clans on Xbox would agree... When the latest update dropped they where 1 hitting every single frame.

"I saw two top players using the Vectis successfully" is not even close to legitimate evidence.
So again: "Find me evidence for any recent buff to the Vectis."

56 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

4. Your lack of maturity and professionalism isn't appreciated anywhere in the world. I would appreciate keeping on subject and not personally attacking anyone on these forums in attempt to derail the thread resulting in a useless locked thread. 

Ps. Check your messages 

I am asking for evidence concerning a balancing claim you made. This is perfectly relevant to the thread.
Meanwhile, you continue to avoid actually providing evidence. Instead, you comment on my "maturity and professionalism" and accuse me of "personally attacking" you.
The hypocrisy is palpable.
Do you consider being asked to substantiate your claims a personal attack?

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37 minutes ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

As I said earlier:
"Not that any of this matters, because experience doesn't guarantee credibility, and 'start date' doesn't guarantee experience."

"I saw two top players using the Vectis successfully" is not even close to legitimate evidence.
So again: "Find me evidence for any recent buff to the Vectis."

I am asking for evidence concerning a balancing claim you made. This is perfectly relevant to the thread.
Meanwhile, you continue to avoid actually providing evidence. Instead, you comment on my "maturity and professionalism" and accuse me of "personally attacking" you.
The hypocrisy is palpable.
Do you consider being asked to substantiate your claims a personal attack?

http://xboxclips.com/CFEdragon/3a865c70-2d1c-481d-b36b-d65445e59789

Here is a clip from CFE Dragon's game play. Over 4000 damage for the kill. Idk a single frame that can survive that even from a body shot. 

Idk any frames tanking that type of damage even unrestricted. 

Edited by (XB1)Aeries Vendetta
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13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Aeries Vendetta said:

http://xboxclips.com/CFEdragon/3a865c70-2d1c-481d-b36b-d65445e59789

Here is a clip from CFE Dragon's game play. Over 4000 damage for the kill. Idk a single frame that can survive that even from a body shot. 

Idk any frames tanking that type of damage even unrestricted. 

No weapon is supposed to do anywhere near 4000 damage.  That is a bug, not a Vectis buff. 

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