No More Prime/vandal Weapons

[SonicDoragon]

The only reason i'm making a reply is cause this topic is near the top, that aside. Has anyone else noticed the Op hasn't said anything since page 2? nor has he made any arguments against the people who've brought up decent points against the idea. Hek the only reason I see this topic resurface is because people just basically saying "I agree" and not providing any counters to the people who've made good arguments.

and to re-counter the topic with something I've already said, have fun buying weapon skin slots (DE has to make money, remember that skin slots are currently free). I'd rather the few skins(there's what four?) in the game be turned into weapons and be rid of the skin non-sense. Untill further notice, maybe after the game is fleshed out and other things like bugs are fixed.

 

I like visual alterations as much as the next person, but I'd really like a freaking awesome game first and foremost before pretty skins.

[Lumireaver]

Has anyone else noticed the Op hasn't said anything since page 2? nor has he made any arguments against the people who've brought up decent points against the idea. 

 

There isn't a whole left lot to say. Also I'm not here to argue, I'm here to express that there are issues and propose solutions. To provide feedback. The atmosphere on this forum is a little antagonistic, don't you think? You don't need to argue about everything. (I'm used to it, however. That's the reason I didn't mention which Primes/Vandals I do/don't have, or which weapons I have/haven't super charged. There's no reason any of that should be relevant to this discussion. Not that that stopped people from making off topic, accusatory remarks anyway, but I digress...)

 

Also: 

My mind is blown. Are you still planning that capacity increasing dojo shrine? We might just have too much capacity to reasonably fill before long.

 

Thanks for the update, Steve. How do you feel about weapon skins? Sincerely, I feel the system isn't being used enough.

 

Agreed - we need to do better with our skins, totally.

 

...So there's that...

 

To reiterate what's been said for your convenience, the biggest point(s) is(are) that:

 

• Warframe has a skin system. It's underutilized. This is not a good thing. (80+ weapons vs 4 weapon skins)
• Warframe has very skin-like suffix weapons which are more like skins than the differently modeled Dagger Axes, as well as the Brokk and Manticore hammers.

Apart from the nitpicky organizational Designer benefits, there are a many benefits to both for the player, and for DE.

 

• Players won't need to be afraid that their weapon will be rendered less useful by the existence of a +1 edition. IE: Braton +1. (Easier to invest/invest in Catalysts and Forma.)
• More on ease of investment: It's a lot easier to plat-purchase a Latron when you can rest knowing Latron +1 won't trivialize your purchase.
• Skins can modify stats (See: Alternate helmets), similar to what Primes/Vandals currently do. Moving Primes/Vandals over to the skin system can turn them more into true sidegrades.

Some of the perceived downsides to consolidating Prime/Vandals aren't completely logical:

 

"We will lose Mastery Rank points!" You don't need as many Mastery Rank points as are currently available just yet. Now is a great time to trim some of the clutter. (Also if the Primes/Vandals are consolidated and the Dagger Axes/Brokk/Manticore are treated as proper weapons, you don't lose very many points to begin with...) Additionally, this change could also come alongside the addition of Mastery Rank points for skins.

 

"Primes/Vandals are separate weapons from a lore perspective, so they shouldn't be skins!" The Brokk Hammer belongs to Lech Kril. The Manticore Axe has lore too. (Something about execution and rituals?) The Dagger Axes could get their own lore at some point to follow suit.

 

On top of all that, when things get rolling, many more skin variants could be rolled out. With or without stat differences... (Think: Steampunk Vasto, or a cloth wrapped, battle damaged Boltor? Infested amalgamated weapons with icky growths and flesh? Etc...)

 

Basically this is about future-proofiing, and proper feature utilization. 

[Tazmanyak]

I still do totally agree with your statements. I would extend the skins system not only to weapons, but also to Frames.

I would like this suggestion treated in a future Q&A :)

[Lumireaver]

I still do totally agree with your statements. I would extend the skins system not only to weapons, but also to Frames.

I would like this suggestion treated in a future Q&A :)

 

As a matter of consistency, I totally wouldn't mind it being applied to 'Frames. ...On the other hand, we currently have so few 'Frames that I don't see the problem with Primes being separate. ...Then again, that will doubtlessly change, and in a couple of years we may have, like, thirty 'Frames... at which point it would definitely seem much more reasonable for Primes to be skins as well...

 

My preferred method of handling here kind of depends on how Warframes are established as either characters or equipment, and how future Prime 'Frame distribution pans out.

 

(Though in my gut, I kind of feel like consistency weighs more in this case...)

[Malikon]

Lumireaver, while I can understand your statements regarding benefits of making these things into skins, those are precisely why I dont think it would work.

 

Most folks that are supporting that movement are not doing so to get any sort of consistancy or any kind of inventory control or anything of that sort.  It was flat out admitted in at least one thread that it was desired because the OPs and supporters felt they made a poor choice and thought the game should change to alleviate that feeling.  Some of those supporters even insinuated that any "wasted" formas or taters should be returned to them if it should happen.  That isnt thinking of or requesting features for the benefit of the game, that is a group of players being selfish and/or lazy. 

 

With your logic, I could've understood a push for something like that back when the skinning system first went in, and it wouldve had minimal impact.  But to do so now could only be viewed as catering to the "squeaky wheels" that dont want to put the time and resources into customizing their stuff.   For as inexpensive as formas and taters are, in both time (for relevelling or acquisition) and currency, this "make primes/vandals into skins" suggestion is just a waste of everyone's breath and time.

 

tl;dr:  Use the skinning system for weapons to give us "Steampunk Braton" or "The Ultra-Gorgonator 10000" skins that make our weapons look  ridiculously awesome, but leave the weapon upgrades as separate items.

 

edit: grammar

Edited July 29, 2013 by Malikon

[Lumireaver]

- snip -

 

Most folks that are supporting that movement are not doing so to get any sort of consistancy or any kind of inventory control or anything of that sort.  It was flat out admitted in at least one thread that it was desired because the OPs and supporters felt they made a poor choice and thought the game should change to alleviate that feeling.  Some of those supporters even insinuated that any "wasted" formas or taters should be returned to them if it should happen.  That isnt thinking of or requesting features for the benefit of the game, that is a group of players being selfish and/or lazy. 

 

With your logic, I could've understood a push for something like that back when the skinning system first went in, and it wouldve had minimal impact.  But to do so now could only be viewed as catering to the "squeaky wheels" that dont want to put the time and resources into customizing their stuff.   For as inexpensive as formas and taters are, in both time (for relevelling or acquisition) and currency, this "make primes/vandals into skins" suggestion is just a waste of everyone's breath and time. 

 

- snip -

 

It almost seems like you're implying that the system in place should not change in order to deliberately/specifically spite those who are complaining. In the past, DE has been very accommodating when systems change, and I don't think that's something which should change. If everything is shuffled around to tidy a system which was implemented during an earlier phase of beta, people shouldn't be left in the dust. (Unless it would be too much trouble, in which case a heartfelt apology would be appreciated.)

 

While we're on that note, as long as we're in beta, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we suddenly experienced radical changes to mechanics like the whole U7 mod thing. :-P

[Cpl_Facehugger]

In this way, Prime/Vandal weapons can continue to be released without rendering their base models obsolete.

Why is this a desirable state of affairs? What is wrong with some weapons being rendered obsolete? Do people complain about how the Braton Mark 1 is mostly obsolete compared to the Braton/Brandal/Prime? Do people complain how Cronus is pretty much a straight upgrade to Skana?

(Spoilers: They don't.)

RPG-like games, which Warframe is trying to be, thrive on weapon progression. Because that provides a way for players to gauge how far they've come. Sidegrades, meanwhile, generally discourage players from using them. If prime weapons are just skins, where's the motivation in grinding out hundreds of void runs to get them? More to the point, when was the last time you played a game that was both fun and had every gun, even the entry level ones, just as effective as the later ones? I mean, crap, games have handled weapon progression in this fashion since Wolfenstein 3d, and for very good reason!

 

It almost seems like you're implying that the system in place should not change in order to deliberately/specifically spite those who are complaining.

You've got a point here. I personally would love the system to stay as it is, and I'm honest enough to admit that spiting the whiners who complain about how primes - weapons I sweated blood and tears to get compared to those guys who just farmed some rubedo and neurodes - are better tickles my fancy.

Of course, my other reason for why the system should stay as it is is because... It's not broken in the least, and nobody's actually been able to provide a good reason for why it should change.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Lumireaver]

Why is this a desirable state of affairs? What is wrong with some weapons being rendered obsolete? Do people complain about how the Braton Mark 1 is mostly obsolete compared to the Braton/Brandal/Prime? Do people complain how Cronus is pretty much a straight upgrade to Skana?

(Spoilers: They don't.)

RPG-like games, which Warframe is trying to be, thrive on weapon progression. Because that provides a way for players to gauge how far they've come. Sidegrades, meanwhile, generally discourage players from using them. If prime weapons are just skins, where's the motivation in grinding out hundreds of void runs to get them? More to the point, when was the last time you played a game that was both fun and had every gun, even the entry level ones, just as effective as the later ones? I mean, crap, games have handled weapon progression in this fashion since Wolfenstein 3d, and for very good reason!

 

You've got a point here. I personally would love the system to stay as it is, and I'm honest enough to admit that spiting the whiners who complain about how primes - weapons I sweated blood and tears to get compared to those guys who just farmed some rubedo and neurodes - are better tickles my fancy.

Of course, my other reason for why the system should stay as it is is because... It's not broken in the least, and nobody's actually been able to provide a good reason for why it should change.

 

I'm of the opinion that to leave no element without purpose is a hallmark of good design. If the "+1" aspect of Prime and Vandal weapons was a factor which could be equipped onto the base model, (as opposed to being a standalone existence) then the base model would never fall out of relevance. (Even if, strictly speaking, an unskinned weapon wouldn't see a lot of use in higher level play.)

 

The cases of the Skana -> Cronus progression as well as the MK1 Braton progression can be explored individually at a later time.

 

If you review Livestream #1, you'll hear Steve and Geoff talking about they want each and every weapon to serve some purpose. +1 Editions threaten that sentiment, unless handled with discretion. The skin system is the perfect gateway. To answer your question, (When was the last game,...) Metal Gear Solid 4, probably. Everything was effective with respect to what it was supposed to accomplish.

 

Please note that the method of Prime and Vandal acquisition doesn't need to change to accommodate their change into skins. Farming components from the void can still be a thing.

[Malikon]

Indeed, it does seem to be that I'm implying that the system shouldn't change to spite the whiners.  Unless you consider the fact that in the grand scheme of overhauls (mobs/planets/mods/UI/Frame skill trees), wouldn't this have been earlier in the list than right now if DE had wanted to do it?  Weapons aren't a small part of this game, so logically issues and oversights with them would've been considered first.  But it wasnt.

 

Would making these things into skins resolve any problems?  No, it wouldn't.  People can scream and cry about how they want it, but it doesn't change the fact that it does NOT address a relevant problem in any meaningful way, and would merely be servicing a loud minority. 

 

Would making these things into skins cause any problems?  Yep.  Trivializing a weapons current and future upgrade path into "farm parts, UPGRADE/SIDEGRADE COMPLETE" can only hurt the game later.

 

I dont see +1 Editions as ruining any sentiments of "One weapon, some purpose".  A Bronco Prime is still a Bronco, and it fulfills the same purpose.  If you dont want to change the variant of your weapon, then don't.  It's not required or forced upon you in any way whatsoever.  Sentiment to the contrary (that "upgrades" are forced) is a wholly personal perception derived from training and are self imposed requirements.

 

Are there much bigger and more important things that need to be addressed?  Yes, there are.  Namely enemy scaling, the shifting of power around certain new frames vs the old ones, new content.

 

tl;dr:  Stop wasting dev time with silly requests when they have more important things to work on than faction rep with a minority of players that cant stand the thought of making a choice they might decide to regret later.  Skins are for the Ultra Gorgonator 10000 that looks like a flaming minigun made of grineer corpses and fires explosive infested larva.

 

Edit:  Clarity

Edited July 30, 2013 by Malikon

[Taranis49]

I'm of the opinion that to leave no element without purpose is a hallmark of good design. If the "+1" aspect of Prime and Vandal weapons was a factor which could be equipped onto the base model, (as opposed to being a standalone existence) then the base model would never fall out of relevance. (Even if, strictly speaking, an unskinned weapon wouldn't see a lot of use in higher level play.)

 

The cases of the Skana -> Cronus progression as well as the MK1 Braton progression can be explored individually at a later time.

 

If you review Livestream #1, you'll hear Steve and Geoff talking about they want each and every weapon to serve some purpose. +1 Editions threaten that sentiment, unless handled with discretion. The skin system is the perfect gateway. To answer your question, (When was the last game,...) Metal Gear Solid 4, probably. Everything was effective with respect to what it was supposed to accomplish.

 

Please note that the method of Prime and Vandal acquisition doesn't need to change to accommodate their change into skins. Farming components from the void can still be a thing.

 

They do serve a purpose - they typically allow you to get better gear in the first place because they're what's available.

 

Let's look at the Braton for example, it's basically the cheapest weapon in the game; buyable off the shelf from the market for 25,000 credits with no mastery requirement. Realistically, I'd peg the odds as being pretty good that a new player is going to use one at some point (and probably for a while) long before they're farming high-level defense for a 2% chance to get a T3 Capture/Defense void key, which on average has about a 7 - 12% chance to drop the Prime version's BP or barrel.

 

It's called "human nature" to work towards advancement, not something with a different coat of paint. Very few people work crapulent jobs to put themselves through college with the goal of getting another crapulent job that gives the same pay and benefits. Likewise, our ancestors stopped using stone tools for a reason: they developed metal ones.

 

It works this way in the game too; I highly doubt someone goes through the effort of upgrading Serration to Rank 10 just to get equivalent performance to an unranked counterpart and nobody I know of complains that the unranked one fell out of relevance. Yet, weapons should be treated differently because... banana?

Edited July 30, 2013 by Taranis49

[Lumireaver]

You missed the part about not falling out of relevance. Losing their purpose within the game. It might be worth noting that progression happens whether or not they're treated as skins. (I think you're being distracted by your own metaphors.) Regarding that Serration example, introducing non-skin Primes/Vandals is like adding (a superior) Serration II, making Serration obsolete. Incidentally, the old mod system used to work that way...

edit: Sorry, Malikon. Didn't see your post.
Re: "But it wasn't." ...Yeah, mods aren't a small part of this game, so logically issues and oversights with them would've been considered first. But they weren't. (It took seven updates.)

Edited July 30, 2013 by Lumireaver

[Taranis49]

You missed the part about not falling out of relevance. Losing their purpose within the game. It might be worth noting that progression happens whether or not they're treated as skins. (I think you're being distracted by your own metaphors.) Regarding that Serration example, introducing non-skin Primes/Vandals is like adding (a superior) Serration II, making Serration obsolete. Incidentally, the old mod system used to work that way...

edit: Sorry, Malikon. Didn't see your post.

Re: "But it wasn't." ...Yeah, mods aren't a small part of this game, so logically issues and oversights with them would've been considered first. But they weren't. (It took seven updates.)

 

I didn't miss the part about falling out of relevance, I just don't see why it matters and you've never actually explained why it should. Seriously, most sane people don't lament the fact that stone tools are obsolete either.

 

You've also failed to address why a greater amount of work shouldn't result in better gains. This leads to a bigger issue: Given the effort some of them take to obtain, what incentive does a player have to bother if they weren't actually better than what's already available? I'd rather have content that was relevant and falls out of use rather than the content that isn't even worth the effort of obtaining in the first place (which is where a lot of it resides, sadly); as the saying goes: better a has-been than a never-was.

[Lumireaver]

To keep everything tidy and cohesive. We're not talking about the transition from stone tools to metal ones or human history, we're talking about content in your in-game arsenal—we're talking about deliberately designed systems which are at play constantly throughout your experience with Warframe.

 

...I'm not sure if you're missing that skins can have improved attributes? There would still be gains... rewards for effort.

[Falseangel17]

I can totally agree with this, adding a better version of a weapon when you may have worked very hard or spent a lot of time to get the original? It seems a little like a slap in the face.

 

However removing these items is not a solution, it would make too many people upset. So if I have read your post correctly Mr. Lumireaver, you suggest a very viable solution. So thank you, and I hope DE takes notice of your post.

[Malikon]

Lumireaver seems to make some decent points, but why is there is still no good solid reason why this is even an issue? 

 

In any other game, you get the OMGBLASTYOURASS Sword and you go out and mod it, put gems in it, enchant it, whatever the game supports, right?

 

Two bosses, mobs, dungeons, quests, whatever later, OMGPWNYOURFACE Sword drops and its better, but damn that boss was hard (also could read: damn the drop rate was crappy/etc).  So now, what do you do?  You can choose to keep your first weapon, or you can trick out your second one .   Guaranteed, the most you can get from your first weapon is to dismantle it and maybe get some crafting material or another but all your enchantments and mods are gone.  No one is forcing you to get those extra damages or attacks or whatever, you chose to do it.  It's called weapon progression and it is an idea that has been in use in games since before any of the folks playing this game existed.

 

Why is this proven functional tactic for retaining people's attention and inspiring people to work towards some goal in a virtual environment suddenly a terrible thing because someone feels bad about spending their time on something?  How is a proven functional and acceptable idea (most of life also works out roughly the same way) so suddenly and irrevocably broken? 

 

The answer;  it isn't broken.  The players crying for this are what is broken. 

Edited July 30, 2013 by Malikon

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I'm of the opinion that to leave no element without purpose is a hallmark of good design. If the "+1" aspect of Prime and Vandal weapons was a factor which could be equipped onto the base model, (as opposed to being a standalone existence) then the base model would never fall out of relevance. (Even if, strictly speaking, an unskinned weapon wouldn't see a lot of use in higher level play.)

But that's a pretty arbitrary distinction. "Oh, Braton never falls out of relevance (it's just that everyone in high level play uses the prime skin with ++DAM, +MAG, and -ROF with you never seeing a normal Braton in high level play)" is pretty much the same thing as "Braton falls out of relevance because everyone's using the Prime version."

 

Either way, nobody's using the normal Braton unless they don't have the prime version/skin. The only difference is that the skin doesn't take up a slot, but also doesn't give mastery. So why change it, given that slots are one of the ways DE makes money?

 

The cases of the Skana -> Cronus progression as well as the MK1 Braton progression can be explored individually at a later time.

Ooooor we could use them as an example now, by pointing to how very few players have a problem with the MK1 -> Braton and Skana -> Cronus progression, so why change a system that works fine to fix a problem that doesn't exist?

I'm totally with you on how we need more weapon skins, but you haven't sold me on why Primes and Vandals need to be those skins.

 

If you review Livestream #1, you'll hear Steve and Geoff talking about they want each and every weapon to serve some purpose. +1 Editions threaten that sentiment, unless handled with discretion.

But "+1" weapons serve a purpose in the current system too. Braton is something a new player can buy right out of the gate, while the Prime version represents a goal to strive for. No need to change the system at all.

Also, what DE says in livestreams is under revision. Surely we all remember the golem concept art that got ditched in favor of a giant kaiju-size golem? Indeed, I'd argue that the proliferation of prime weapons in U9 shows that DE has realized what a silly idea making prime weapons mere skins really is.

 

The skin system is the perfect gateway. To answer your question, (When was the last game,...) Metal Gear Solid 4, probably. Everything was effective with respect to what it was supposed to accomplish.

I haven't played MGS4, but I'm given to understand it's a stealth game, not really a shooter or an RPG-shooter. In terms of actual shooters, I can't really think of one that didn't have some weapons obsoleting some others.

 

Please note that the method of Prime and Vandal acquisition doesn't need to change to accommodate their change into skins. Farming components from the void can still be a thing.

Sure, but you're trying to justify changing a system that works fine just the way it is. With changing it requiring pulling coders away from other tasks. But so far you haven't really given a good reason why.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Lumdalumlum]

The only problem i see is that people who forma their weapon so much that they are not willing to change to a new weapon. For me,i will only potato the weapon i like. I have been using scindo for as long as i can rmb. Even though there is orthos now. I up orthos to 30 and sell it. Why? Scindo is good enough for me. I am not interested in another weapon even if it is better

For snipetron vs the vandal. I see no need to compare. Snipetron is junk.

If u guys already forma that weapon for like 4 5 6 times. It should already be better than a fresh prime/vandal/watever-bullS#&$ version.

New weapon comes out doesn't means that u have to change yr weapon. You own godly forma-ed weapon is still good enough. Just get the new weapon. Up it to 30 and sell for mastery if you wan. If not, just be like me. Collect the BP and materials then craft it. But don't claim. Since. Foundary takes no slots.

[zyraconne]

In one side: those who have potatoed / forma'd non-prime weapons.

The other side: those who don't have the non-prime weapons but got those "hard earned" prime weapons.

 

I got a way to solve all your bickering: release a Zero version (+2, better in any possible way than normal/prime), available only by crafting it using BOTH normal AND prime weapons (and losing them in doing so).

The only problem i see is that people who forma their weapon so much that they are not willing to change to a new weapon. For me,i will only potato the weapon i like. I have been using scindo for as long as i can rmb. Even though there is orthos now. I up orthos to 30 and sell it. Why? Scindo is good enough for me. I am not interested in another weapon even if it is better
For snipetron vs the vandal. I see no need to compare. Snipetron is junk.

If u guys already forma that weapon for like 4 5 6 times. It should already be better than a fresh prime/vandal/watever-bullS#&$ version.
New weapon comes out doesn't means that u have to change yr weapon. You own godly forma-ed weapon is still good enough. Just get the new weapon. Up it to 30 and sell for mastery if you wan. If not, just be like me. Collect the BP and materials then craft it. But don't claim. Since. Foundary takes no slots.

How many times you've forma'd your Scindo? Next up, Scindo Vandal: 75 base damage, 250 charge damage, 1.2 sec charge speed, 10% critical chance. Still think your current Scindo is "still good enough"?

Edited July 30, 2013 by zyraconne

[Lumdalumlum]

In one side: those who have potatoed / forma'd non-prime weapons.

The other side: those who don't have the non-prime weapons but got those "hard earned" prime weapons.

 

I got a way to solve all your bickering: release a Zero version (+2, better in any possible way than normal/prime), available only by crafting it using BOTH normal AND prime weapons (and losing them in doing so).

How many times you've forma'd your Scindo? Next up, Scindo Vandal: 75 base damage, 250 charge damage, 1.2 sec charge speed, 10% critical chance. Still think your current Scindo is "still good enough"?

IF that even happen. Then i'll switch. i don't mind loosing that potato and 2 forma. 

[Malikon]

Still no good reasons why this is an issue.  Skins are for making Hek look like the barrels are made of polish sausages with bacon wrapped around them and a handgrip made of cheese (read: aesthetics).

[XDeathCoreX]

Still no good reasons why this is an issue.  Skins are for making Hek look like the barrels are made of polish gold and handgrip made of gold.

[XDeathCoreX]

Where is the sense in creating Prime versions of each weapon only for those to be another weapon. Just a waste of space. 

 

What they should do create unique prime weapons exclusive to prime and change the current prime blueprints to blueprints that make Prime skins of current weapons with the stat boost because they are just reskinned versions of the same weapons. They are NOT new weapons, just reskinned weapons to look pretty and get more money out of people. The stat bonuses are just minor stat boosts. The game has a skin feature, if you are not going to use it, why is it there?

 

These prime weapons are nothing but skins. Better looks and stats, nothing more. There is nothing truly special about them. just reskins of the same weapons that you have to spend a catalyst on for it to be as good as your original model.

 

Does not make any sense at all to have a skin system and instead create reskinned weapons and make them new weapons.

 

When is this game going to get unique prime weapons and not reskinned gear.

 

Reminds me of Phantasy Star Universe and how they reskinned everything and called it new(Especially he bosses, even there there were so few of them. Sad indeed)

 

And if people really still want these reskins as weapons then you should be able to link these weapons with the original so they share the same upgrade and any extra polarities

 

or

 

An upgrade system to upgrade original to prime and keep the original model as a skin and still have the Prime model(Same pretty look).

 

Or simply build the Prime version and simply fuse them keeping the catalyst/polarites and the original skin.

 

And of course you still get the stat boost no matter what.

 

And if need be, make the user relevel the weapon and let it give 150-200 mastery xp per level. Now everyone wins and unique prime weapons can be made.

 

And even if the lore is that these primes are the original, nothing says you can't simply use the blueprints to craft the parts, strip the parts of the original and rebuilt is with the prime parts keeping the supercharged core of the weapon and polarities. And tweak the gun so it's stats are up to par with the prime version.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Where is the sense in creating Prime versions of each weapon only for those to be another weapon. Just a waste of space.

Mastery. Mastery and different mod/color loadouts.

Also, from DE's perspective, slots. Which people have to pay for.

Meanwhile, literally the only argument for making prime weapons skins is "why else have the skin system?" But that's silly, since skins so far are things like dagger axes and different kinds of hammers, not Prime stuff. By all means, new skins should be made and sold, but there's no actual reason to make primes skins, except so people who already potato'd and forma their non prime can get an even more powerful weapon without having to put in the work.

The problem there being that potatos and forma are also ways that DE make money, so from their perspective, not letting primes seamlessly upgrade is a good thing.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

regarding the vandel/prime versions, I disagree with you. infact there shoul be more of them, however make them sesional events or somehtign like that. thos type of things are what keep people playing. I wasnt in closed beta and id love to get thos vandels, but at the same time, i have my vandel sniper and im happy with that. 

 

I would rather see a way to turn your current wepins into prime ones, retaining potatoes and forma used wall giveing state bosts and otherwise.

vandels however are there own thing, and should remain. there's no way to trade, so people cant make money off of them, and there a gift for doing an event. I forma-ed my vandel twice, and if it gets taken away that's more or less a wast of my time now isnt it.

 

the DEs said thay would never be  nerfing guns but rather buffing them when needed, and removing them is the biggest nerf i can think of.

 

as skins, I like this, but as different skins. event skins. seasonal or one time. but not to replace the vandals.

too many people have them now to even consider doing that, and you need the mastery points anyway.

 

I do however think that boss theamed gear should not be skins, however people ahve payed for the hammer skin. if you turn it into another hammer, then you have to give them a copy of it at the same level and stats as befor, infact thats a grate invite for a vandel to be born.

 

vandel borke hammer. lets do it.

 

 

if you didnt know vandels and primes have diffrent stats to them. thats why people will never allow that. as skins perhapes, but thay have been out too long to change now. the game would loss ar too much money with this sort of change, unless we need to buy slots on skins now.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[XDeathCoreX]

Mastery. Mastery and different mod/color loadouts.

Also, from DE's perspective, slots. Which people have to pay for.

Meanwhile, literally the only argument for making prime weapons skins is "why else have the skin system?" But that's silly, since skins so far are things like dagger axes and different kinds of hammers, not Prime stuff. By all means, new skins should be made and sold, but there's no actual reason to make primes skins, except so people who already potato'd and forma their non prime can get an even more powerful weapon without having to put in the work.

The problem there being that potatos and forma are also ways that DE make money, so from their perspective, not letting primes seamlessly upgrade is a good thing.

You can change the color of skins. Seems you forgot that those skins and/or upgrades have blueprints too. And when you upgrade you have to level the weapons again with mastery xp. It's all the same and everyone wins.

 

And your statement saying there are no prime skins so therefore there should not be any is a really bad logic and just as silly as you think the skin excuse is.

 

And in the end, these prime weapons are just reskinned versions of currently available weapons and NOT unique weapons.