No More Prime/vandal Weapons

[zyraconne]

Then how about a Orokin Extractor to extract the superchargers and player added polarities from one weapon and transfer it to another weapon or ONLY to their prime counterparts. You can either buy it, wait for it or farm it in the void. And if this is too much then it can destroy the weapon after extraction which would extract all forma and the supercharger, hell, it can even extract the level(But only can be added to their prime variants - Completely optional).

 

There, everyone's happy!

 

The Orokin Extractor would retail for 10 plat and be continued use for 5 plat or free after finding the right component or be one time use and 5 plat each or 10 plat.

 

Cannot see anyone having an issue with this especially since it's been suggested with no negative responses thus far.

As I stated either in this or the other thread, I forgot, I actually suggested that the Prime version requires the normal version to craft, and that the potato carries over (but not the forma - those are farmable). So while I have no objection with that idea (there's even a thread regarding that idea alone IINM), I still think that's not the best way to handle it (especially in DE's point of view).

[theammostore]

Well, the weapon isn't the issue, it's having to acquire the duplicate prime version with minor stat boost and having to reapply the goods and re level it as much as the original version due to nothing carrying over and a Orokin Extractor(See above)solves that.

 

Judging by everyone's comments, it seems that an Orokin Extractor is the way to go and keeping the current system that so FEW people enjoy.

 

Even you can agree, if not, i give up.

So again, back to buyer's remorse. You put a permanent item into a weapon, found out a better version came out (which you didn't know at the time) and now you want your permanent item back. Seriously, this is just like cell phones are cars. Here is the latest greatest version, you buy it, then a newer and better version comes out, and then you are upset that you didn't buy that one.

 

I see your point, but I just can't agree. I've put potatos into things I know I will probably never use again, or will probably have a better version of later on. And I will admit that I wouldn't mind having a way to get the potato or forma back, but at the same time I know that this system is in place to help support the game and make sure it gets better. I would have to see this system in place before I say 'i'm going to support this idea,' because right now, this system works just fine, and don't fix what isn't broken.

[XDeathCoreX]

As I stated either in this or the other thread, I forgot, I actually suggested that the Prime version requires the normal version to craft, and that the potato carries over (but not the forma - those are farmable). So while I have no objection with that idea (there's even a thread regarding that idea alone IINM), I still think that's not the best way to handle it (especially in DE's point of view).

You shouldn't really have to redo all that polarizing, it's not just farming, it's time spent leveling to 30 for every polarity and is a massive waste of time doing it all over again and then again and again as you replace each weapon and adds to the tediousness and massive grind and is the main issue with everyone. notice how forma is mentioned more than the super chargers.

 

You could be working on something else rather than redoing polarities.

[zyraconne]

You shouldn't really have to redo all that polarizing, it's not just farming, it's time spent leveling to 30 for every polarity and is a massive waste of time doing it all over again and then again and again as you replace each weapon and adds to the tediousness and massive grind and is the main issue with everyone. notice how forma is mentioned more than the super chargers.

 

You could be working on something else rather than redoing polarities.

Where you can still speed up the process by buying the forma. And affinity boosters. Or just do the grind, which you can't with the potato. Notice what I said in the very last sentence.

[XDeathCoreX]

So again, back to buyer's remorse. You put a permanent item into a weapon, found out a better version came out (which you didn't know at the time) and now you want your permanent item back. Seriously, this is just like cell phones are cars. Here is the latest greatest version, you buy it, then a newer and better version comes out, and then you are upset that you didn't buy that one.

 

I see your point, but I just can't agree. I've put potatos into things I know I will probably never use again, or will probably have a better version of later on. And I will admit that I wouldn't mind having a way to get the potato or forma back, but at the same time I know that this system is in place to help support the game and make sure it gets better. I would have to see this system in place before I say 'i'm going to support this idea,' because right now, this system works just fine, and don't fix what isn't broken.

You can just sell those items.

 

And the system can be made more convenient even with limitations to only transferring superchargers and polarities to their prime versions, destroying or not destroying the weapon. it would cost 10 for each use, pop up as alert and be found in void. if that's too much then remove it from void drop pool.

 

If one item is too little, add another item to Extract player added polarities for 10 plat. And a combo pack for 15 plat. There is an answer for everything. And the Vor shop is one of them.

[XDeathCoreX]

Where you can still speed up the process by buying the forma. And affinity boosters. Or just do the grind, which you can't with the potato. Notice what I said in the very last sentence.

And waste more money and less time, but waste time overall.

[zyraconne]

And waste more money and less time, but waste time overall.

Isn't that the point of playing a game?

[XDeathCoreX]

Isn't that the point of playing a game?

The point of playing a game with less convenient features.

[SonicSonedit]

Actually I think the OP is right. I wouldn't mind the Primes becoming some kind of skin that gives a slight booster like the alt helmets. I don't think I even bother using the base weapons when I have their vandal versions. It is food for thought really.

/agree

[merryfistmas]

Would you have a problem with prime weapons if they weren't straight upgrades? for example, if they introduced a scindo prime that had huge range but slower charge speed so it was actually a different weapon rather than just scindo+, would you be fine with primes being separate weapons then? Because the biggest complain I see is prime weapons making normal versions obsolete (I don't completely agree but I can see where they're coming from).

 

I'm fine with the current system (mainly because I can get a slightly worse weapon for about 2% of the time it takes to get a prime weapon) but making prime weapons more specialized or have a strong advantage but slight disadvantage (kind of like the alt helmets) would be a way more interesting way to go about it.

[S3ven0F13]

I have all the vandels and primes. and i agree with the OP

[BraveDude8]

I have all the vandels and primes. and i agree with the OP

 

So do I and I see no reason for this not to be implemented.

[WondahBoah]

mastery (they'll add more mastery content). hard work (for casuals). goals for everyone. If you don't understand these ideas, then you don't need to be making this tired old argument.

 

This game is still new, they have plans in motion that massive amounts of complaining WILL NOT CHANGE.

 

That is all I will say.

[Malikon]

I still haven't read a *good* game-affecting reason why this is even on the table.  The only reasons I've seen are personal issues that vary in intensity from person to person and I still cannot support this idea when there are more important issues that need looked at like resolving the armor scaling issue, new tilesets/content.

[XDeathCoreX]

I still haven't read a *good* game-affecting reason why this is even on the table.  The only reasons I've seen are personal issues that vary in intensity from person to person and I still cannot support this idea when there are more important issues that need looked at like resolving the armor scaling issue, new tilesets/content.

And upgrading regular weapons to prime weapons that are essentially the same weapons.

[Grulos]

mastery (they'll add more mastery content). hard work (for casuals). goals for everyone. If you don't understand these ideas, then you don't need to be making this tired old argument.

 

This game is still new, they have plans in motion that massive amounts of complaining WILL NOT CHANGE.

 

That is all I will say.

Mastery here, mastery there.

Then make the skin give mastery too, is this so hard? Make it also lvl from 0 to 30 and behave like a gun, but the mod points are derived from the "normal" version.

[Tazmanyak]

I'm mastery 7 without leveling any prime/vandal weapon.

the mastery argument doenst seem to weight a lot in my opinion.

note: i didnt level any of the clan weapons either.

Loosing potatoes/formas and/or inventory slots weight much more in my opinion. just because prime wpns just make the originals not worth keeping, as the new version is superior. be it a few damage points.

[Malikon]

And upgrading regular weapons to prime weapons that are essentially the same weapons.

That is the "good" reason to make this important considering all the other work on DE's table?  That's low priority downtime work.  Please let DE fix real game issues before they start looking into fan service ones.

[XDeathCoreX]

Yes, a good reason to give paying customers what they want and keep them coming back for more. If you cannot comprehend a dev team multitasking, then thats your issue. You even know how big the team is?

[Communist101]

I hate these threads. Ones discussing that primes and vandals should be as skins with slight stat buffs as opposed to actual weapons.

 

People, please, I understand what you want, but It's a separate weapon for a reason, which is (as far as I know) the Lore. The prime weapons are the originals, the very first of that weapon, and all the others are attempted replicas of things the Tenno have tried to make with the proper recipe, but not the right ingredients. Well know how much the Lore means to the game, so unless you want the Lore to start being rewritten...you may as well just learn to live with it.

 

Also, if you're going to say 'well, then why should I buy a new weapon when the prime is going to come out at some point,' please stop typing. I bet you are the same person who has never bought a cell phone or a car (taking in that you are financially able to) simply because the newer and better version will come out in a year or a week. This is how things work, everywhere, better things come out, and you just have to take what you got.

 

I wouldn't be upset if this change happened, I just don't feel like it should happen.

The Lore (story) in my opinion, should NOT in ANY way, hamper the game's gameplay or development. Prohibiting the advancement of gameplay within a game just because of the game's story is idiotic and incomprehensible to me.

 

Also, the Lore is full of holes. Why the bloody F*** does a person change gender when he, or quite possibly she changes a suit of armor? The Warframes aren't even people, just suits of armor. Unless wearing a certain Warframe gives you a sudden height increase/decrease with an increase/decrease of bust size (which I shudder at the thought of), I am not bought. A statement given by one of the developers, saying that each Warframe should have his or her individual persona directly contradicts with the said Lore.

 

And don't give me the "cause the game is still in Beta" crap. If the Lore is to be held in such high regard such that it is more important than the game's gameplay, then it should be dealt with already. Rather, the developers continues to dish out content like no other, rather than fixing the mistakes they had already done. DE's stance on the Lore is still unknown, however a not-so-recent move by DE which is the removal of the Snipetron from the game is motivated by the Lore.

 

This game is a game, NOT real life. Of course, in real life better things come out as time pass by, but this is a GAME for god's sake. According to your logic, it is completely fine for a weapon which renders 90% other weapons obselete to be released in the game, because it is harder to achieve, and that it is released at a later date.

 

In no way am I stating that DE has not made any improvements with regards to the gameplay and the game itself, or am I stating that the Lore has no place in Warframe. I am just saying to DE; fix your stuff before you release new content so as to prevent any complications in the future.

 

I think I went off topic. I will delete my post if the OP requests me to.

[paul62626]

i like the thinking, but i have to say im against it. the vandal weapons arent a skin. they are thier own weapon. also noting they come with their own slot. and the point of them is to render the originals obsolete. and to make it so you can get mastery from them, skins dont give mastery, i do like the idea of brokk hammer though.

[Malikon]

Yes, a good reason to give paying customers what they want and keep them coming back for more. If you cannot comprehend a dev team multitasking, then thats your issue. You even know how big the team is?

There is a fine line between giving paying customers what they want and spending a bunch of time catering to people you will never please.  I can very well comprehend a dev team multitasking, but do you honestly think that you can just slap a guy or two onto the following issues and have the results turn out well in a reasonable amount of time:  rebalance mobs/content additions in the form of new weapons, frames, tilesets, missions, and enemies/turn weapons into skins/rebalance warframes/rebalance weapons/moderate forums and community/customer service/multi-platform development, releases, and patches/physical hardware maintenance/DB maintenance and updates/backups/vendor relations and acquisitions/customer relations in the form of livefeeds and the fairly consistant updates we get?

 

Do you even realize what the dev team has to do or how big they are?  That amount of stuff is a lot of work to do for any single team, much less a small, independently funded one.  Face it, the "make vandals/primes into skins" just isn't that important compared to all the other things the team has on their plate.

[XDeathCoreX]

But do you even realize how much of the big stuff is in front of all the "fanservice". It's enough for them to ignore all the less important stuff and not bother at all. There's always going to be something put in front, so much that the "fan service" content won't ever get done

 

You are basically asking the dev team to not bother with lesser issues and that's how so many things not get done or fixed in games because they are always put aside and never done like the UI, sentinel mods, moving some mods to sentinel like thief wit and making it detect mods, etc.

 

It's best to get this over with now so and move on, the team should be big enough to handle this and all the things you mentioned. have faith. It's very important it gets done soon before releasing more of the same, but prime weapons.

[CaptainohCaptain]

Skins? Well, let's think about it.

You don't want to lose formas and reactors and at that point you are ready to spit in the face of those who does not hold a basic version of the weapon. Neither a cool alteration, nor logical. Seriously? Helm makes a little sense but prime is not about some fancy strap on your cell phone. It's a full-time rebuild with exploit of Orokin technologies.

Also, what about Reaper Prime? Make it a skin for Hate, sending down the drain different mechanic?

[Malikon]

Never said not to do "fan service" content, but instead to focus on the bigger picture first and clean up when there are less pressing issues that are threatening your gameplay.

 

And you reminded me:  revamping a UI, revamping mods, and adding functionality and versatility to sentinels should also be listed in the gaggle of important things that should be handled before "prime/vandal skins" ever sees the light of day.

 

Either way, it is my opinion that this shouldn't be an issue at all, but since it is, it is further my opinion that it needs to be something for a later date with things that effect everyone and every aspect of the game taking precedence.

 

Edit:  grammar/clarity.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Malikon