Almagnus1 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) What's one of the biggest downsides to pets when compared to sentinels? No vacuum mod. What makes getting to a good point in archwing difficult? You have to basically melee or you will have a harder time finding and getting the mods so you can git gud. What is an infuriating part of Titania's Razorwing? It turns off vacuum on your sentinel. What would solve all of the above? Making loot auto collect so (in the code) whenever loot would be dropped, it's just added to the pickup list of everyone in the mission. That means that whenever a crate is smashed, a lootbox is opened, or something dies, you automatically get loot. This also doesn't affect the loot radar mods - which should arguably also show the lockers - because they still show you things to find. So all DE would need to do is delete vacuum, and then refund us the endo and credits invested to rank it, while also converting all of the vacuum mods you have into endo and credits. Edited May 3, 2017 by Almagnus1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)XxDarkyanxX Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) So basically all I have to do is chill in a corner of the map where enemies can't hit me and I'll get all the 20-40 minutes worth of farming that the other players did without having to risk getting killed by running to get said loot? My leecher sense are tingling. Edited May 3, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grimsley Clause Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 No, we need more bandaid mods. ;) I'm tired of these threads that go "Delete this" or "Delete that". This stuff's still actively being worked on and is subject to change at any time, in any update. It'll be added in; so all things, Pets, Archwings, even Frames have something going on for their loot pickup eventually. But for now, go out, kill things, pick up the easily pick up-able loot, and continue on like the rest of us who are not worried or complaining. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightBlitz Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 cant say i agree, plus, if lockers were added to the loot radar, the mini map could very well end up getting over crowded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyryo Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Here's how to pick up loot. press W and spin the mouse. If you can't kill ppl and take drops, you have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobu_Scorpion Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 It's one of the downsides because pets are more offensive/defensive while sentinels are more utility based.There has to be upsides and downsides to both to make it an actual option rather than an obvious choice. You don't need vacuum, you want it. Furthermore I think this would just encourage leechers since they would get even more for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azamagon Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) I disagreed AND agreed at once. Yes, loot which has no use in mission (like credits, mods and resources), those could all be automatically be picked up upon destroying a crate or killing an enemy etc. No, loot which DOES have a use in mission (like ammo, health/energy orbs, life support), those should be kept exactly as they are. And vacuum should still remain, as then vacuum would 100% just become a in-mission-helping tool, not a direct farming tool. Out-of-mission loot is something no one wants to miss out on. Which is also a big reason why Vacuum, and thus Sentinels, feels like the superior choice to so many people. With out-of-mission loot not being something to worry about anymore, well, then maybe the non-Sentinels and their lack of Vacuum wouldn't be seen as the inferior choice anymore. In-mission loot is important to remain though, as those are among the things that promote us not to camp, but instead to actually run around a bit. Vacuum would still be highly appreciated for this, but more so for those that run with ammo inefficient weapons and such. Vacuum would then feel less "forced" to be used all the time, and wouldn't need to be removed either. Edited May 3, 2017 by Azamagon Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheePrime Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, Kyryo said: Here's how to pick up loot. press W and spin the mouse. If you can't kill ppl and take drops, you have a problem. Have you met the playerbase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKhaun Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 You had me until you went crazy at the end. I was a carrier-only guy for a long time and i'm glad I can use other sentinels now. I wish my infested pupper could do the same. If it were up to me all companions or maybe even just all frames would just have vacuum passively but that doesn't mean I want to see loot just be automatic. Picking up the loot, seeing what drops, seeing a big pile of stuff to run over and vacuum up, then hearing it all vacuum up with the sound effects stacking... It's all part of the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lluid Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Couldn't all resources, mods, ayatan objects, reactants, and special drops be shared, like credits ? Wouldn't that solve the frustration for those who don't have vacuum ? They would only have to run more for energy and ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 For those disagreeing, have you seriously tried to gather loot while your squadmates are zerglings that are basically speedrunning the map without the vacuum mod? You either get left behind and get your loot, switch to a sentinel so you can get loot while contributing, or you contribute and leave your loot behind. I chose to leave my pets in stasis and run a sentinel because that's basically the best option to fit what the rest of the player base is doing. Besides, is this game a resource farming simulator or a game where we're space ninjas and run around and do ninja stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobu_Scorpion Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 51 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said: For those disagreeing, have you seriously tried to gather loot while your squadmates are zerglings that are basically speedrunning the map without the vacuum mod? You either get left behind and get your loot, switch to a sentinel so you can get loot while contributing, or you contribute and leave your loot behind. I chose to leave my pets in stasis and run a sentinel because that's basically the best option to fit what the rest of the player base is doing. Besides, is this game a resource farming simulator or a game where we're space ninjas and run around and do ninja stuff? Well first, you either are playing a pub or you need to get it straight with whatever friends you are running with that you are here for resources. Even so, I would use endless missions to farm, not captures or exterminates and such. Better yield with most drops being in the same spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipputer Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Azamagon said: Yes, loot which has no use in mission (like credits, mods and resources), those could all be automatically be picked up upon destroying a crate or killing an enemy etc. No, loot which DOES have a use in mission (like ammo, health/energy orbs, life support), those should be kept exactly as they are. And vacuum should still remain, as then vacuum would 100% just become a in-mission-helping tool, not a direct farming tool. This is a perfect consolidation of my views on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfol Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Mmmmh well i don't really like vacuum but that's because i don't feel neither the Need neither i see why, i use pets. If u want to take out all the loot...Well i disagree strongly, i like the visual feedback of the resources, it makes them feel more real, present and relevant even if for someone they aren't. Usualy i use vacuum in case i have 5minutes to complete the mission , if i'm not in particular haste i take my sweet time even if they want to speedrun (hey if u have the right to go fast, i have the right to go with a normal pace in public). I respect ur opinion but i disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Need to set up an experiment something like... Control group No auto pick up but still have vacuum. Experimental group 1 Auto pick up on resources, mods and credits Experimental group 2 Auto pick up on everything Monitor brain activity and determine the most pleasurable and addictive one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirfol Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, Volinus7 said: Need to set up an experiment something like... Control group No auto pick up but still have vacuum. Experimental group 1 Auto pick up on resources, mods and credits Experimental group 2 Auto pick up on everything Monitor brain activity and determine the most pleasurable and addictive one. You'll found people that voted for tru- emh it's intersting, but i think there will be instant pleasure when found a argon crystal in the map for one side and on the other pleasure when u see the number at the extraction menu'. it will probably resolve nothing, at least for me and my small mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Final_Dragon01 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 2 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said: So basically all I have to do is chill in a corner of the map where enemies can't hit me and I'll get all the 20-40 minutes worth of farming that the other players did without having to risk getting killed by running to get said loot? My leecher sense are tingling. So we need vacuum because AFK protection? It seems like there are better solutions to AFK protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)XxDarkyanxX Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said: So we need vacuum because AFK protection? It seems like there are better solutions to AFK protection. I don't remember saying that, I merely pointed out an obvious flaw to a suggested mechanic, it's up to OP to reformulate and find a solution that overcome said flaw. Going to pick up loot is part of a looting game, I see no point in receiving an infinite range vacuum for free just to counter a number of non-existent problems. Edited May 3, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 Coming form my MMO experience, what I find is that by removing the loot acquisition from the equation (like what FFXIV does), it puts more of the focus on actually doing combat - essentially focusing us on the fun stuff, and removing the tedium with collecting loot. Yes, you still must open chests and interact with gather nodes, but there's nothing more beyond that as you automatically get the loot from monsters and chests. Back to Warframe, what gives me the most enjoyment with looting is seeing the mods (especially the rare mods) flash on the screen as I acquire them, and also seeing the loot scroll of picking stuff up - so the expeerience with an autoloot system wouldn't be that far off from what you see with vacuuming stuff in. What I find extremely annoying is having to manually get all the loot nodes, especially from kills, when I'm using a pet especially in group play because it feels like I must stop what I'm doing to handle loot, rather than merrily continuing with being a ninja and slaying everything in my path. The pets are not enjoyable looting experiences because looting actively disrupts the fun stuff - unlike a sentinel which I can stick on a mod and forget about looting and enjoy the game. Granted, there will still always be certain things (like extraction charge containers for example) that should remain as drops - along with other key-like object - because that adds a strategic element to gameplay, unlike looting which is mindless "get all the things" tedium. Really, this entire suggestion is about focusing on the fun part of Warframe and removing needless tedium from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Final_Dragon01 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said: I don't remember saying that, I merely pointed out an obvious flaw to a suggested mechanic, it's up to OP to reformulate and find a solution that overcome said flaw. Going to pick up loot is part of a looting game, I see no point in receiving an infinite range vacuum for free just to counter a number of non-existent problems. Yes, I made your argument easier to understand. 'Chilling in a corner for 20-40 mins' is called being AFK. I still say vacuum is a failure of an anti-afk system. Consider missions that encourage splitting up like spy, interception, archwing, and others. Would it not make sense for loot collected by all players to count for everyone since each player has a role to play at a distance from everyone else? Design philosophies aimed at the lowest common denominator suck. If the possibility that someone might take advantage of your work really bothers you just play solo or with the friends you have. Personally I do sortie spy carries because I fell like the game does a poor job preparing new players for the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)XxDarkyanxX Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said: 1.Yes, I made your argument easier to understand. 'Chilling in a corner for 20-40 mins' is called being AFK. I still say vacuum is a failure of an anti-afk system. 2.Consider missions that encourage splitting up like spy, interception, archwing, and others. Would it not make sense for loot collected by all players to count for everyone since each player has a role to play at a distance from everyone else? 3.Design philosophies aimed at the lowest common denominator suck. If the possibility that someone might take advantage of your work really bothers you just play solo or with the friends you have. Personally I do sortie spy carries because I fell like the game does a poor job preparing new players for the challenge. 1. The AFK system is a thing of itself, vacuum is not a part of it, nor a bandaid to it. It's a simple mod that shows progress in the game. You begin with low resources needs and as you grow up in the Warframe universe you gain abilities/powers to acquire more loots and grow even stronger. Vacuum is part of the progression. 2. Not exactly, If we take a look at Spy missions: Spy vault lack enemies, chest/containers are very rare. The "Roles" are a thing that you created yourself for more efficiency, all three vaults takes way less time than any other mission objective. There is nothing forcing you to leave an entire vault to someone alone, but yet you do. This sounds more like a problem that spy mission itself has since it's too "Easy" to complete. The Loot System is not the problematic one here.Interception: If you've actually played interception, you'll notice that the enemies often target only 1 or two console rather strongly while the two other consoles lack of a fight. You'll often find yourself joining your team to defend a console. So again, that role is something you created for yourself, you've appointed yourself to a node and conquer it back when needed, however the real fight is somewhere else and you'll always find yourself beside your team members.Archwings mission: Here is probably the only instance where I'll find myself agreeing with you and OP. The map is huge, weapons have a very long overall range, the environment makes it hard to actually perceive resources ( Big rock, small rocks, stars, black background, yeah space you know... ) In those condition, killing with your long-range weapon simply means that you'll never see the dropped resource ever again, and if you do go for it, you'll find yourself drifting into space for 5-20 seconds just to reach it before needing to come back to the objective which I find is very counter-productive. 3. Think about what you just said for a second and apply that to any other situation. -Overlooking essential problems while creating something can only be seen as wrong. -Suggesting to "Suck it up" as I'd like to phrase it, doesn't solve the problem at hand. -"New Players" and "Sorties" are not words that go well together. SideNote : How can you expect them to learn if they get carried all the time? You simply can't blame that on the game if you make it just as worst for them If they want to prepare, all they have to do is literally play the game ( It DOES prepare them ). They'll find themselves facing ALL difficulties of spy mission by simply completing the starchart. Thing that should be done before reaching out for sortie to begin with. Edited May 3, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipputer Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 4 hours ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said: So basically all I have to do is chill in a corner of the map where enemies can't hit me and I'll get all the 20-40 minutes worth of farming that the other players did without having to risk getting killed by running to get said loot? My leecher sense are tingling. People already do this with affinity, which is the important thing that they're after, and run out to get loot in between waves. This would change absolutely nothing except that they'd stock up on hard to get resources, which are the things they run out to get anyway. A few bad apples don't spoil the bunch, anyway. I've had numerous new players get frustrated because they missed out on rare drops that I got during a run simply due to them not seeing them or thinking they ran by them right as the waypoint marker disappeared, meaning they picked it up, only to find out that they didn't touch it. Vacuum isn't the appropriate answer for this-- some of them are experiencing this well before the point that they'll even be considering a Sentinel. Let's also not forget that there are plenty of situations where you have a person playing a weaker frame (say Banshee) to help their teammates go longer in a farming run, only for them to end up collecting less loot due to them not being able to freely go collect it as often as the other players can. I guess they get the shaft, too, because a few players might, maybe, occasionally, possibly leech off of a few other players now and again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)XxDarkyanxX Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Chipputer said: 1.People already do this with affinity, which is the important thing that they're after, and run out to get loot in between waves. This would change absolutely nothing except that they'd stock up on hard to get resources, which are the things they run out to get anyway. 2.A few bad apples don't spoil the bunch, anyway. I've had numerous new players get frustrated because they missed out on rare drops that I got during a run simply due to them not seeing them or thinking they ran by them right as the waypoint marker disappeared, meaning they picked it up, only to find out that they didn't touch it. Vacuum isn't the appropriate answer for this-- some of them are experiencing this well before the point that they'll even be considering a Sentinel. 3.Let's also not forget that there are plenty of situations where you have a person playing a weaker frame (say Banshee) to help their teammates go longer in a farming run, only for them to end up collecting less loot due to them not being able to freely go collect it as often as the other players can. I guess they get the shaft, too, because a few players might, maybe, occasionally, possibly leech off of a few other players now and again? 1.It's all about the effort invested into it, the idea simply makes it way easier for them. Take a survival as an example, if they find a big room with a high ceiling, they'll never reach said loot since the ground is filled with deadly monsters, with this implemented, they don't need to go down and risk anything. 2.And they'll still experience it if this is implemented, you know DE isn't simply gonna give the "Rare" stuff out of nothing. The RNG will either increase or the rare drop will keep being part of the items that can fall on the ground. 3.Fair argument, but at the same time, facing the danger to receive the loot is also part of the game. It's certainly easy for banshee and other frame to stay behind a wall as they make the fight easier, but the moment they get out, they'll see that maybe they weren't supposed to stay for so long. I believe that being forced to move out of your sweet spot is what will possibly kill you in the long term. That alone sounds like a fair thing to keep if cheese is still around. Edited May 4, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almagnus1 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 20 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said: 1.It's all about the effort invested into it, the idea simply makes it way easier for them. Take a survival as an example, if they find a big room with a high ceiling, they'll never reach said loot since the ground is filled with deadly monsters, with this implemented, they don't need to go down and risk anything. We have a report system to deal with AFKers. You see an AFKer, you report an AFKer. Using the AFKer as a counterpoint for this feature is essentially a strawman because the reporting system already exists to deal with them. 20 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said: 2.And they'll still experience it if this is implemented, you know DE isn't simply gonna give the "Rare" stuff out of nothing. The RNG will either increase or the rare drop will keep being part of the items that can fall on the ground. Not really, half of the issue with the rare drops is that people don't know how to properly flag them, so newer players won't know to go pick up the flagged thing which is the rare resource they're after. 20 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said: 3.Fair argument, but at the same time, facing the danger to receive the loot is also part of the game. It's certainly easy for banshee and other frame to stay behind a wall as they make the fight easier, but the moment they get out, they'll see that maybe they weren't supposed to stay for so long. I believe that being forced to move out of your sweet spot is what will possibly kill you in the long term. That alone sounds like a fair thing to keep if cheese is still around. You can possibly do the same thing with a Vacuum mod to suck in energy. Maybe the better solution is to make energy (and arguably health) something that isn't automatically picked up - which would actually create a more strategic way to play as you'd have to balance energy pickups with combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)XxDarkyanxX Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said: 1.We have a report system to deal with AFKers. You see an AFKer, you report an AFKer. Using the AFKer as a counterpoint for this feature is essentially a strawman because the reporting system already exists to deal with them. 2.Not really, half of the issue with the rare drops is that people don't know how to properly flag them, so newer players won't know to go pick up the flagged thing which is the rare resource they're after. 3.You can possibly do the same thing with a Vacuum mod to suck in energy. Maybe the better solution is to make energy (and arguably health) something that isn't automatically picked up - which would actually create a more strategic way to play as you'd have to balance energy pickups with combat. 1.What does the system actually do? Can you really know what happens after you report him? Most report button are simply there for show, some works, others don't. But the general public simply don't use them anymore due to that. I'd rather know that the system isn't passive-friendly with that behaviour and makes it as hard for him as it is for us. 2. Flag as in... Waypoint them? Like I said, if that's the problem, it's not going to be solved by a free Auto collect since DE isn't simply going to give you the rare items without consequences. They'll either be even more difficult to get, or they'll stay as "Dropped items" You'll still need to know how to Flag them. 3. While I see where you're coming from, there are many many simple answers to this, Trinity,Zenurik,Arcanes,Limbo,Energy pads, health pads, ammo pads. All those things can be acquired in MASSIVE amount in a lot of different ways, resources however... You'll always have to search for them since there's nothing that will make it easy for your entire team to get them without having to move out of your hiding spot. Edited May 4, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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