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Would Squads be stronger with Synergetic Abilities?


Hopakkiin
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If Warframe abilities could be cast in synergy, that would be amazing for a Co-op game such as Warframe. For Example: As long as Rhino has iron skin active and stands on Hallowed Ground, he would absorb the damage his teammates would take. I know that this would be a bad example. What do you think, what abilities and frames would make sense together?

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This isn't really a question, people already do this.

Just like me and my clan mates did for the Ambulus event.

One of us was a Sound quake Banshee, one a EV Trinity, another Equinox and I had my Nidus.

Banshee the Main damage dealer

Trinity kept the energy flowing 

Equinox gave a power boost to the Banshee

My Nidus was boosting the Banshee even more with link.

 

Edited by SilvaDreams
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Just now, SilvaDreams said:

This isn't really a question, people already do this.

Just like me and my clan mates did for the Ambulus event.

One of us was a Sound a Banshee, one a EV Trinity, another Equinox and I had my Nidus.

Banshee the Main damage dealer

Trinity kept the energy flowing 

Equinox gave a power boost to the Banshee

My Nidus was boosting the Banshee even more with link.

 

But that is just Frames Casting their own abilities on each other. I thought of one Frame casting an Ability, that reacts to another frames ability already active. I know that Smite infusion already does Buff other players, but that wouldn't be the point. Imagine for example combo primers and triggers: Oberon casts Smite on an enemy, which then would be primed for the Combo, Ember casts Fireball on the same enemy causing medium sized Explosion which deals damage.

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I've seen some neat ideas over the years, but I've never seen any demand for it in game.

Early in the game Mag and Excalibur had a wicked combo that could be used to splat the early placeholder hp-sponge bosses, but very rarely saw it done. The first round of augment mods included a bunch of simple team damage buffs that apply to many powers, but I can still count on one hand the number of times I've had someone else put those buffs on me. I know there are more examples but I can't even think of them, because no one plays that way. They even gave us XP range indication in the U.I. and people still ignore eachother to go slaughter everything outside XP range.

Warframe co-op is like... solo in the vicinity of other solo players...

We can revive though. Doesn't matter if we're all gonna die standing in napalm fire or being a mile from the defense objective while it gets rekt, WE WILL revive you.

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I suppose it's all about how you define "synergy" within the game context. Someone can already do what OP wants by using Electromagnetic Shielding and/or Guardian Derision.

I would define "Synergy" in one of two ways, depending on context. One way is how Saryn's powers act differently when used in combination, ie, getting energy back when using Contagion to strike an enemy with Spores. This sounds similar to what the OP wants (ie, different warframes having powers that change based on which powers are used in tandem), but I think this would lead into content that'd be too difficult to balance (And i say this while we have mods sterilized from PVP, and no real "need" for balance), and would tend to create "must pick" scenarios in endless missions, rather than create interesting choices.

Alternatively, you can define synergy as the dictionary does, and that is two things combining to create an effect stronger than the sum of their parts. As SilvaDreams pointed out, we already have interaction like this, so there's no real "need" to create specialized combinations with additional effects, particularly ones that are stronger than what are already achievable.

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4 minutes ago, Magnar21 said:

I suppose it's all about how you define "synergy" within the game context. Someone can already do what OP wants by using Electromagnetic Shielding and/or Guardian Derision.

I would define "Synergy" in one of two ways, depending on context. One way is how Saryn's powers act differently when used in combination, ie, getting energy back when using Contagion to strike an enemy with Spores. This sounds similar to what the OP wants (ie, different warframes having powers that change based on which powers are used in tandem), but I think this would lead into content that'd be too difficult to balance (And i say this while we have mods sterilized from PVP, and no real "need" for balance), and would tend to create "must pick" scenarios in endless missions, rather than create interesting choices.

Alternatively, you can define synergy as the dictionary does, and that is two things combining to create an effect stronger than the sum of their parts. As SilvaDreams pointed out, we already have interaction like this, so there's no real "need" to create specialized combinations with additional effects, particularly ones that are stronger than what are already achievable.

There is no need. Of course there is no need to change anything. But it would be more fun. 

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While it would be good, it would likely add additional development for each new frame, adding more and more time as each new frame would need to be linked to every existing frame.

At this point you could be talking months of extra coding and bug fixing.

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Right now there's a synergy and it's natural synergy, frames just happen to buff each other and provide energy.

As I understand your post, the synergy proposed is forced synergy, since you have a definite effect locking you on a role while some frames work differently depending how you mod them; and only occurs between 2 frames, so that might limit your playstyle and choice, right now there are 33 frames(with Harrow) so you'd need 528 interactions so that every frame synergizes with each other or at least 182 so that every varied squad could have at least 1 synergizing pair. 

(Fun fact: You can make 40920 different squad combinations)

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8 minutes ago, Jeoxz said:

Right now there's a synergy and it's natural synergy, frames just happen to buff each other and provide energy.

As I understand your post, the synergy proposed is forced synergy, since you have a definite effect locking you on a role while some frames work differently depending how you mod them; and only occurs between 2 frames, so that might limit your playstyle and choice, right now there are 33 frames(with Harrow) so you'd need 528 interactions so that every frame synergizes with each other or at least 182 so that every varied squad could have at least 1 synergizing pair. 

(Fun fact: You can make 40920 different squad combinations)

Maybe not every ability should be Synergetic. It would be far more than enough if we made nukes interact with each other, when cast on an enemy. This wouldn't force anything, except for more team play. It should be balanced though. Not that two players cast nukes on Mercury and every enemy in the Void dies.

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Just now, Hopakkiin said:

Maybe not every ability should be Synergetic. It would be far more than enough if we made nukes interact with each other, when cast on an enemy. This wouldn't force anything, except for more team play. It should be balanced though. Not that two players cast nukes on Mercury and every enemy in the Void dies.

Sounds really good, but I'd be more into Lore based synergy, like Oberon+Titania synergies. Make them like easter eggs rather than Game mechanics.

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Just now, Jeoxz said:

Sounds really good, but I'd be more into Lore based synergy, like Oberon+Titania synergies. Make them like easter eggs rather than Game mechanics.

That would be fun. Oberon and Titania really make a cute couple. Theoretically this synergy thing could be stretched to weapons as well. As in Warframes synergizing with weapons. But that wouldn't work as well. Make the Synergy between a few frames. Not every frame should synergize with all other frames.

 

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30 minutes ago, Hopakkiin said:

Theoretically this synergy thing could be stretched to weapons as well. As in Warframes synergizing with weapons.

Actually there are already some frames that synergize with certain weapons.  Orvius/Ivara and Saryn/Pox are two that come to mind at the moment.  I'm fairly sure there are others as well.  I also can see some synergy happening between Titania's new augment and Valkyr.  

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Right now we have what I like to call "soft synergy" with different elements in the game. Certain items and frames work well together. My Saryn loadout has lots of soft synergy built into it: I take the Mut. Cernos for spreading Toxin as I proc Viral off of Spores to spread the love death twice as fast. I use Healing Return on my melee to keep her health up, since literally everything she hits will have a Status effect. Soft synergies can exist between Warframes too, and it can be loads of fun to figure them out.

Hard synergies (extra effects provided by very specific combinations of things) would be interesting, but very complicated and a lot to plan for. We currently have one such hard synergy (that I know of) in Warframe: stacking effects between the Gazal Machete and the Djinn Sentinel. I haven't tried it, and I have never seen anyone use it, so I can't really comment on. Hard synergies could be useful and interesting, but good might come with not-so-good.

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8 hours ago, VKhaun said:

 

We can revive though. Doesn't matter if we're all gonna die standing in napalm fire or being a mile from the defense objective while it gets rekt, WE WILL revive you.

I think some players see reviving as a personal challenge more than anything. Almost like a side objective to be the hero.

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Yeah, hard synergies can be difficult to maintain.

For an example, imagine a new frame that would have a frame centered AoE duration ability, with the effect of giving every frame a different unique buff; this would be an awesome frame, but imagine how DE forever after would have to add new buffs for every new frame that came out. But this is mainly the case for universal hard synergies.

Imagine instead that two SPECIFIC frames had a hard synergy (a common choice for the pair would be Oberon and Titania) where they could buff each others abilities. For this however, DE would need both frames to be planned out and tested in advance of launch. It may also be advisable to launch both frames at the same time. If the planning is not done in advance the only two options are to rework both frames at once, or add augments for both frames at once, neither of which are ideal choices. The augments in particular would be impractical for public missions; there is no point in wasting a mod slot on an augment for buffing one specific frame you might not even be grouped with.

I would argue that that there is a jellylike synergy in the game already (between soft and hard) in the form of Limbo. In fact it is this jelly synergy that causes much of the hatred for Limbo in the first place. That fact is this: when there is a Limbo playing in your squad, all your squad is Limbo. If you are anywhere near a limbo using his abilities, you must play as Limbo plays. This becomes an issue if the Limbo is in a squad of people who do not like playing as Limbo or do not know how to play as Limbo; as Limbo is an acquired taste (that is often not), there is an air of hostility directed at public Limbos.

So the lesson should be this: if DE decides to add a hard synergy, they need to be wary to not force the synergy on people who are not looking for it.

Edited by Nomayonnaiseinireland
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8 hours ago, Tacritan said:

Imagine destructive possibilities with hydroid/frost combo. Water and ice.

I can imagine Frost/Rhino or Banshee/Atlas.

Rhino be stomping while Frost has ice everywhere, the Ice shatters and turn into shrapnel that damages everything. :D

Same thing with Banshee, doing sound quakes that throws rocks around that Atlas makes and stuff.

Edited by (XB1)calvina
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