Iccotak Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Here is what I mean. Example: I click on a random mission on Earth, a quick menu will pop up asking what level of enemies I want to deal with. I have a selection of basic options. Default Difficulty: the default level of that specific mission. Harder Difficulty: 20-40 range Even harder: 50-80 range Challenge: 90-100+ range There is no easy option. You have the default and you can raise the difficulty. That's it. So if I click a level 40+ mission, there is not going to be an option that says 'levels 1-3' If you want more of a challenge run Nightmare missions, those come with conditions. This is for those who want to continuously challenge themselves when they play a mission. AND it encourages Veterans returning to older tile sets like Earth if they want a nice tile set plus difficult enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)theelix Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 What missions would you raise the difficult on that this would make sense? Not a single endless mission, because that doesn't make any sense. The challenge in endless doesn't come from enemy level, but rather your ability to continuously play "how can we trivialize this game more" without screwing up. Spy missions have a difficulty that doesn't come from the enemy level or enemy type. So raising their level would also be pointless. Capture mission difficulty also doesn't come from enemy level, because you can kill the capture target in a few shots with most weapons that aren't obviously pointless to use, and many Warframe powers. The only mission that this would even make sense on is Hijack. Unless those enemies are level two hundred plus, exterminate is still going to be a steam roll with the occasional instakilling shotgun gun gun if you miss a roll. And if it affects the tier of the mission, that's going to bring difficulty down rather than up. It would trivialize farming certain nodes because some enemy sets + tile sets are objectively less challenging than others, and we all know that's all people are going to do: Change the tier on the least challenging maps in order to make farming RNG easier, so that entirely tangential idea is out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iccotak Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 To answer your questions 5 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said: What missions would you raise the difficult on that this would make sense? Not a single endless mission, because that doesn't make any sense. The challenge in endless doesn't come from enemy level, but rather your ability to continuously play "how can we trivialize this game more" without screwing up. For endless missions, some people just don't have the patience to start from extremely low levels. So if I, as a veteran, start on Earth with a defense mission then rather than starting at levels 5-10. I start at higher levels around 30-40+ and go on from there. 8 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said: Spy missions have a difficulty that doesn't come from the enemy level or enemy type. So raising their level would also be pointless. Well that depends. Avoiding getting caught is the real challenge but adding difficult enemies on top of that would increase the challenge. Remember those drones that can catch you? they scale in level too so your chances of destroying them become slimmer. 11 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said: Capture mission difficulty also doesn't come from enemy level, because you can kill the capture target in a few shots with most weapons that aren't obviously pointless to use, and many Warframe powers. Difficulty does influence this. The capture targets output damage scales and the enemies can delay you from catching your target. Remember not everyone has the most optimized build for their Warframe and gear, so not everyone is one shooting things. 14 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said: And if it affects the tier of the mission, that's going to bring difficulty down rather than up. It would trivialize farming certain nodes because some enemy sets + tile sets are objectively less challenging than others, and we all know that's all people are going to do: Change the tier on the least challenging maps in order to make farming RNG easier, so that entirely tangential idea is out the window. THIS is a very good point. It high lights that older tile sets need level re-designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 The glimpse of the right difficulty is almost nonexistent in wf. It's either too easy or too cheesy. I think DE want you to waste more time than giving you a shortcut to higher lvl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 You've just created 3 times as many nodes to thin out an already thin population in most of the star map. How do you propose alleviating that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSpite Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 6 hours ago, Iccotak said: Here is what I mean. Example: I click on a random mission on Earth, a quick menu will pop up asking what level of enemies I want to deal with. I have a selection of basic options. Default Difficulty: the default level of that specific mission. Harder Difficulty: 20-40 range Even harder: 50-80 range Challenge: 90-100+ range There is no easy option. You have the default and you can raise the difficulty. That's it. So if I click a level 40+ mission, there is not going to be an option that says 'levels 1-3' If you want more of a challenge run Nightmare missions, those come with conditions. This is for those who want to continuously challenge themselves when they play a mission. AND it encourages Veterans returning to older tile sets like Earth if they want a nice tile set plus difficult enemies. I don't think that just upping enemy levels is "extra difficult". The AI and strategies they have is identical so it just becomes an Arms Race of putting more Forma on things ans maxing mods, and basically you are back where you started, played Dungeon Defenders? That's exactly what happens. If there is a challenge slider, then the levels should have more things happening then "more spawns with more hit points". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEXXIMUS Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 7 hours ago, Iccotak said: Here is what I mean. Example: I click on a random mission on Earth, a quick menu will pop up asking what level of enemies I want to deal with. I have a selection of basic options. Default Difficulty: the default level of that specific mission. Harder Difficulty: 20-40 range Even harder: 50-80 range Challenge: 90-100+ range There is no easy option. You have the default and you can raise the difficulty. That's it. So if I click a level 40+ mission, there is not going to be an option that says 'levels 1-3' If you want more of a challenge run Nightmare missions, those come with conditions. This is for those who want to continuously challenge themselves when they play a mission. AND it encourages Veterans returning to older tile sets like Earth if they want a nice tile set plus difficult enemies. Interesting idea but i'd go one better and say all nodes should adjust themselves according to your rank so enemies in all locations can consistently provide challenge based on the average rank of players in the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iccotak Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, FLEXXIMUS said: Interesting idea but i'd go one better and say all nodes should adjust themselves according to your rank so enemies in all locations can consistently provide challenge based on the average rank of players in the party. Do you mean Mastery or Warframe Rank? If Mastery then I say make that an option. Adjust to rank or default That way people can choose what they want. Don't want to make a rank 0 Warframe and end up in a level 100 mission Edited May 6, 2017 by Iccotak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iccotak Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 51 minutes ago, DSpite said: I don't think that just upping enemy levels is "extra difficult". The AI and strategies they have is identical so it just becomes an Arms Race of putting more Forma on things ans maxing mods, and basically you are back where you started, played Dungeon Defenders? That's exactly what happens. If there is a challenge slider, then the levels should have more things happening then "more spawns with more hit points". AI is still an ongoing issue in the game. Steve has talked about this multiple times that they are working on increasing the intelligence of AI at higher levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateRiem Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Add two extra nodes on every planet. One will be exclusively endless missions, the other exclusively non-endless missions. Rotate the mission type of both every hour/whatever timespan is reasonable. Make those two nodes mob level 70-90. Enjoy the fireworks as every veteran just jumps on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazrethim Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 11 hours ago, (PS4)theelix said: Spy missions have a difficulty that doesn't come from the enemy level or enemy type. So raising their level would also be pointless. Quite the contrary, the Spy vault defenses depend on level, with more security features active as level goes up. 11 hours ago, (PS4)theelix said: And if it affects the tier of the mission, that's going to bring difficulty down rather than up. It would trivialize farming certain nodes because some enemy sets + tile sets are objectively less challenging than others, and we all know that's all people are going to do: Change the tier on the least challenging maps in order to make farming RNG easier, so that entirely tangential idea is out the window. On the other hand, I would like if I could set a Spy mission to 70-100 and the affinity from the vault scaled with it, as well as awarding Axi relics for a change. DE could add invisibility-detecting enemies or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobiah Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 A suggestion for making matchmaking cleaner with the selector: scale the enemies in difficulty and rewards up for the user depending on their selected difficulty, but affinity/difficulty/rewards don't affect that of others if other select default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)theelix Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 15 hours ago, FLEXXIMUS said: Interesting idea but i'd go one better and say all nodes should adjust themselves according to your rank so enemies in all locations can consistently provide challenge based on the average rank of players in the party. What happens when I join Mercury Survival for the tileset, as a MR20, and there's one, or even three, starting players at MR 1 - 3? That's probably why it wasn't implemented as such in the first place: As an experienced player I can go any place I damn well want to, even back to the starting planet on the first node they unlock, but lower experience players have no choice. I would thus be forcing them to play closer to my level, and I'd be getting less of a challenge. It would be a terrible experience for everybody. Unless you constrain the matchmaking to be in a lower and upper bound of MR, which would also be bad as it segments and segregates the playerbase. It's already hard enough for lower Mastery Ranks to be accepted in serious missions by those with hundreds of hours in the game. Making it nigh impossible for them to join their games randomly, at all, is just going to make the new player experience even worse than the heap of worthless, terribly explained garbage it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrian3k Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Difficulty is fine and dandy, but why would you even bother? If you add challenge, logic would dictate that this challenge would be rewarded. Higher drop chances of loot, multiple end of mission rewards, more credits etc. It would also be nice if we could adjust spawn rates so you can for example play solo but get as many enemies as a 4-man-squad would get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEXXIMUS Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 7 hours ago, (PS4)theelix said: What happens when I join Mercury Survival for the tileset, as a MR20, and there's one, or even three, starting players at MR 1 - 3? That's probably why it wasn't implemented as such in the first place: As an experienced player I can go any place I damn well want to, even back to the starting planet on the first node they unlock, but lower experience players have no choice. I would thus be forcing them to play closer to my level, and I'd be getting less of a challenge. It would be a terrible experience for everybody. Unless you constrain the matchmaking to be in a lower and upper bound of MR, which would also be bad as it segments and segregates the playerbase. It's already hard enough for lower Mastery Ranks to be accepted in serious missions by those with hundreds of hours in the game. Making it nigh impossible for them to join their games randomly, at all, is just going to make the new player experience even worse than the heap of worthless, terribly explained garbage it is. Whilst I accept your initial point, if the matchmaking code is doing its job correctly you wouldn't be placed in such a situation though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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