Casting Single Handed Abilities will cancel reload [Fixed]

[Zeclem]

49 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

Snipers typically wobble from breathing and heart rate not strength. 

i believe it was about recoil when you shoot. i dont remember my vectis p doing wobbling.

and anybody who denies the need of one handedness in the abilities that have it have no idea what theyre talking about. its the sole thing that makes most of that kind of abilities worth of using.

 

[Staggeringking]

Please let this be a bug, it sucks, and Oberon has it bad enough as it is.

Also his 1 interrupts both reloading and firing the supra vandal. 

[Vafthrudnir]

I've also noticed Saryn's first skill canceling realoads but I'm not sure if it's meant to do it, but shock is for sure a 1 handed action and if this is true we may add it to the list of rework nerfs.

Edited May 6, 2017 by giovanniluca

[Archecore]

From my experience, single handed cast skills didn't cancel the charging of a weapon nor the firing animation previously, but now it just cancels both. Also, pressing reload used to cancel the charging of a weapon, but not anymore. Was this an intended fix or a bug?

[Ragingwasabi]

games dont have to be bound by real world physics. I just mean they should TRY as much as possible to stick to things that are explainable. things that are either logical, or can be explained with sci fi mecanics.

most of u guys r providing counter arguements that r problems i also want changed... warframe is a sci fi game, they can use sci fi concepts to get away with things a lot easier than other games. why dont thery try? 

5 hours ago, (PS4)ArnnFrost said:

All these comments about logic and how movements are supposed to be natural... and still no body mentioned the reload animations while carrying ANYTHING xD

Two pistols magically become one, doubling the fire rate and it reloads the weapon magically by slapping it with your frame's thighs

guess what i also wished that was changed

[Ragingwasabi]

5 hours ago, Bobtm said:

The literal purpose of an ability being a "one-handed cast" is precisely so it does not interrupt anything when you're casting it.  That is its mechanical intention as a game mechanic.  In other words, logically it doesn't make sense, because one of the primary functions of the intended mechanic is no longer working.

Games that take an "arcadey" approach to their gameplay often forgo real world logic for the sake of their mechanics.  This change imposes an unnecessary limitation on one-handed abilities that is not intended on them.  It's bad, period.  Even if you don't use the mechanic properly it doesn't mean other players don't.

I'm a bit shocked anyone can even try to argue against this.  It would be like trying to remove animation canceling in a fighting game.  Mechanics of this nature exist for a very clear reason.

i dont get why "one handed cast" mechanic is so important. why even exist in the first place. cant we use some skill to plan our actions? maybe we should ask for instant reload mechanic too?

[NinjaZeku]

Single-handed casts also cancel reloads now.

Since none of this is in the patch notes, however, I'd assume it's "only" a bug.

[o.0-]

I'm curious about what the devs say about this.

Either way, I'll just adapt to what we get moving forward.

[Staggeringking]

If it's just no abilities while reloading, then it's kinda a stealth buff for the Cycron.

But no abilities while firing just slows down the pace, maybe just with bows or specific 2 handed guns

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 hour ago, Ragingwasabi said:

i dont get why "one handed cast" mechanic is so important. why even exist in the first place. cant we use some skill to plan our actions? maybe we should ask for instant reload mechanic too?

sorry man but i don't get your priorities at all. this is warframe we're talking about, the game with the infitite mana, where you can hard CC a whole map 24/7, where there are skills which make you completely invincible and GRANT you energy instead of costing it, with power creep weaponry able to instakill everything far beyond endgame content, where the only hindrance in going hundreds of hours into endless missions is merely trying to stay awake etc etc...

seriously if i'd like the game to be harder / smarter (and people who know my forum activity know i sure do very very much) this would be like the very last place i'd look honestly. i mean this mostly applies to 1 skills... ONE. not nukes. merely BNB. well anyway i sure miss being able to bridge the reloading gap with some shock, realism be danged :P

i mean sure i could get used to it... just... why?!

[Ragingwasabi]

21 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

sorry man but i don't get your priorities at all. this is warframe we're talking about, the game with the infitite mana, where you can hard CC a whole map 24/7, where there are skills which make you completely invincible and GRANT you energy instead of costing it, with power creep weaponry able to instakill everything far beyond endgame content, where the only hindrance in going hundreds of hours into endless missions is merely trying to stay awake etc etc...

seriously if i'd like the game to be harder / smarter (and people who know my forum activity know i sure do very very much) this would be like the very last place i'd look honestly. i mean this mostly applies to 1 skills... ONE. not nukes. merely BNB. well anyway i sure miss being able to bridge the reloading gap with some shock, realism be danged :P

i mean sure i could get used to it... just... why?!

who said power creep was ok? who said the energy system wasnt broken? why is everyone using other broken stuff to counter my point??

my priorities is just do the best u can to include some realistic/logical stuff for immersion and rewarding play. managing ur reload is a basic skill in shooters. do it right, u get kills. do it wrong, u die.

sure we have hard CC abilities that lock down entire rooms, thats kind of what its for. so we can reload. get objectives done. not dying. cos its a horde shooter with infintie scaling enemies. we need hard cc. but were also using guns. guns need to be reloaded. thats a better balance isnt it? we can use powers and reload guns but not both at once. 

Climbing ledges while reloading, also should be changed

 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ragingwasabi

[JacketUnHoly]

.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Lluminate

[(PSN)Silverback73]

19 hours ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

I'm not talking about firing, I'm talking about reloading man


you can reload w/o interruption while using 1hand abilties

I thought I'm the only one going insane but alot of ppl in region chat noticed it in ambulas event as well

Yeah, stealth reload is a pivotal power for Volt's "shock" ability.

DE, please FIX THIS.

[FlinttheImmortal]

Noticed this as well.  Thought it was just on Nyx - the only frame I use a one-handed action with.    Didn't realize it was all OHAs.

[XaelathRavenstorm]

18 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

who said power creep was ok? who said the energy system wasnt broken? why is everyone using other broken stuff to counter my point??

my priorities is just do the best u can to include some realistic/logical stuff for immersion and rewarding play. managing ur reload is a basic skill in shooters. do it right, u get kills. do it wrong, u die.

sure we have hard CC abilities that lock down entire rooms, thats kind of what its for. so we can reload. get objectives done. not dying. cos its a horde shooter with infintie scaling enemies. we need hard cc. but were also using guns. guns need to be reloaded. thats a better balance isnt it? we can use powers and reload guns but not both at once. 

Climbing ledges while reloading, also should be changed

 

 

you won't even talk about "realistic" if you didn't notice this thread, if you wanna play a game with realistic reload go play Rainbow Six or something

give me one of your submitted suggestions/threads to make this game more "realistic/logical"? see? NONE!, you're just a regular Warframe player enjoying the game just like everybody else before I made this thread. You're just seeking for attention IMO

a bug is a bug, intended mechanics are intended.

[Ragingwasabi]

24 minutes ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

you won't even talk about "realistic" if you didn't notice this thread, if you wanna play a game with realistic reload go play Rainbow Six or something

give me one of your submitted suggestions/threads to make this game more "realistic/logical"? see? NONE!, you're just a regular Warframe player enjoying the game just like everybody else before I made this thread. You're just seeking for attention IMO

a bug is a bug, intended mechanics are intended.

wtf. seeking attention really? i gave u my reasons and thats all u can throw back.

u dont seem to even understand my point. bug or not it doesnt matter. its looks bad and imo breaks immersion. game becomes stupid.

why dont u ask DE why they made ROLLING break reload? why the inconsistency?

[(PSN)kobetroy]

Interesting

[XaelathRavenstorm]

17 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

wtf. seeking attention really? i gave u my reasons and thats all u can throw back.

u dont seem to even understand my point. bug or not it doesnt matter. its looks bad and imo breaks immersion. game becomes stupid.

why dont u ask DE why they made ROLLING break reload? why the inconsistency?

There's no inconsistency, rolling breaks actions for generations now, they clearly made 1 hand action abilities to not interrupt anything that you're doing. It's intended to work like that whether realistic or not realistic.

your reasons are just for attention, you just want stuff you didn't even know exist before this to be realistic. I'm gonna say it again:

 

a bug is a bug, intended mechanics are intended.

[Ragingwasabi]

9 minutes ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

There's no inconsistency, rolling breaks actions for generations now, they clearly made 1 hand action abilities to not interrupt anything that you're doing. It's intended to work like that whether realistic or not realistic.

your reasons are just for attention, you just want stuff you didn't even know exist before this to be realistic. I'm gonna say it again:

 

a bug is a bug, intended mechanics are intended.

holy cow ur dense. let me try yet again.

idgaf whether its a bug or intended mechanic, its fking stupid as is

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ragingwasabi

[Ragingwasabi]

ur acccusations that i didnt know about this... really? ive been using nova for the last few weeks and its been little annoyance ive come across which i wished would change. id love to see ur proof im arguiong for attention. i love this game and i want to see it grow. thats all i want

 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ragingwasabi

[MortalTempest]

This issue is also happening in Archwing, not that most players care or even know about this, was noticed when charging a shot for the Velocitus and then casting an ability completely reverting any charge

[Bobtm]

9 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

i dont get why "one handed cast" mechanic is so important. why even exist in the first place. cant we use some skill to plan our actions? maybe we should ask for instant reload mechanic too?

Nobody is asking for instantaneous reloading, there is no basis to make such a jump on the topic at hand at all.  It leads me to believe you don't quite understand what is being discussed here.  It also isn't a discussion of skill or planning in any feasible stretch of the imagination.  It's a discussion of gameplay mechanics that allow abilities to be viable and relevant without being wildly different from one another.  Adding more variables to the tools that are allowed.

While balance is definitely a shaky thing across the various facets of Warframe, it isn't like there is no balancing in place.  Animation types for abilities is something of an extra parameter that can be used to help keep things feeling viable and fresh without needing to have direct power curves.  Let's use Volt as an example as he's one of the more pivotal frames with regards to this discussion.

Volt's 1 and 4 both serve very similar purposes.  They are an Electric damage based cast with range and chaining mechanics.  Shock won't hit near as many targets, and lasts for a much shorter duration when compared to Discharge.  These abilities are both very similar in terms of their core traits, so if it were only these things that separated them then his 1 would have no value as an ability.

But, by using animation rules to create differences, you're able to balance the use of the abilities without weakening Discharge.  Allowing Shock to be relevant as an ability despite sharing many core traits with the notably stronger Discharge.  Being a one-handed animation normally (as we know, it's currently bugged) allows the player to use the ability more fluidly and on the fly to accentuate their standard gunplay.  A Volt player is (normally) able to use Shock during a reload as a quick way to stun a foe while reloading and on the move.  Opening up player options for handling a scenario, without having to use a wide-area hard CC or full on AoE nuke.

As another example;  All of Vauban's abilities are one-handed casts.  This accentuates fluidity in use since Vauban is a purist CC archetype.  By allowing the Vauban player freedom of movement and action during ability casts, you don't make them feel bogged down and useless when they use their casts that ultimately are not going to be "the big finishing move".

To put it simply;  It's just good game design.

4 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

bug or not it doesnt matter. its looks bad and imo breaks immersion. game becomes stupid

Warframe is not a simulation game, and should not arbitrarily adhere to strict rules about realism.  An easy way to kill a game's flow is to start trying to overly complicate and limit player options solely based on factors that are entirely irrelevant to the genre of game.  Pushing unnecessary realism onto an unrealistic game is always a bad idea.  On the flip side, pushing unnecessary fantasy onto a realistic game is also a genuinely atrocious idea.  Different ideas, rules, and mechanics are valuable in different ways, for different genres.

4 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

why dont u ask DE why they made ROLLING break reload? why the inconsistency?

There isn't any inconsistency with regards to that, so you're sorely mistaken on this point.  Rolling as an animation type is an action that is heavily grounded in what is commonly referred to as "animation lock".  This is why rolling indemnifies the player to incoming staggers, stuns, and knockdowns.

3 hours ago, Ragingwasabi said:

i love this game and i want to see it grow. thats all i want

Wanting Warframe to be better is a good thing, but realism is absolutely not the way to go with regards to that goal.  Changes purely for the sake of realism just do not work for games that are grounded very heavily in fantasy with an arcadey gameplay style.  I suggest taking some time to research some of the points about why certain genres of games use or don't use certain mechanics.  The reception to those mechanics of game players, and of course the level of success or failure of the given games in question.

To very briefly bring up a related example that was earlier noted;  Animation canceling in fighting/action games.  This is something that is super unrealistic yet is a very core part of that genre of gaming almost across the board.  Animation canceling helps with feel and fluidity while adding an extra layer of skill to the gameplay elements.

Realism can be good, but only in the right places.  This is not one of those places.

[Ragingwasabi]

1 hour ago, Bobtm said:

Nobody is asking for instantaneous reloading, there is no basis to make such a jump on the topic at hand at all.  It leads me to believe you don't quite understand what is being discussed here.  It also isn't a discussion of skill or planning in any feasible stretch of the imagination.  It's a discussion of gameplay mechanics that allow abilities to be viable and relevant without being wildly different from one another.  Adding more variables to the tools that are allowed.

While balance is definitely a shaky thing across the various facets of Warframe, it isn't like there is no balancing in place.  Animation types for abilities is something of an extra parameter that can be used to help keep things feeling viable and fresh without needing to have direct power curves.  Let's use Volt as an example as he's one of the more pivotal frames with regards to this discussion.

Volt's 1 and 4 both serve very similar purposes.  They are an Electric damage based cast with range and chaining mechanics.  Shock won't hit near as many targets, and lasts for a much shorter duration when compared to Discharge.  These abilities are both very similar in terms of their core traits, so if it were only these things that separated them then his 1 would have no value as an ability.

But, by using animation rules to create differences, you're able to balance the use of the abilities without weakening Discharge.  Allowing Shock to be relevant as an ability despite sharing many core traits with the notably stronger Discharge.  Being a one-handed animation normally (as we know, it's currently bugged) allows the player to use the ability more fluidly and on the fly to accentuate their standard gunplay.  A Volt player is (normally) able to use Shock during a reload as a quick way to stun a foe while reloading and on the move.  Opening up player options for handling a scenario, without having to use a wide-area hard CC or full on AoE nuke.

As another example;  All of Vauban's abilities are one-handed casts.  This accentuates fluidity in use since Vauban is a purist CC archetype.  By allowing the Vauban player freedom of movement and action during ability casts, you don't make them feel bogged down and useless when they use their casts that ultimately are not going to be "the big finishing move".

To put it simply;  It's just good game design.

Warframe is not a simulation game, and should not arbitrarily adhere to strict rules about realism.  An easy way to kill a game's flow is to start trying to overly complicate and limit player options solely based on factors that are entirely irrelevant to the genre of game.  Pushing unnecessary realism onto an unrealistic game is always a bad idea.  On the flip side, pushing unnecessary fantasy onto a realistic game is also a genuinely atrocious idea.  Different ideas, rules, and mechanics are valuable in different ways, for different genres.

There isn't any inconsistency with regards to that, so you're sorely mistaken on this point.  Rolling as an animation type is an action that is heavily grounded in what is commonly referred to as "animation lock".  This is why rolling indemnifies the player to incoming staggers, stuns, and knockdowns.

Wanting Warframe to be better is a good thing, but realism is absolutely not the way to go with regards to that goal.  Changes purely for the sake of realism just do not work for games that are grounded very heavily in fantasy with an arcadey gameplay style.  I suggest taking some time to research some of the points about why certain genres of games use or don't use certain mechanics.  The reception to those mechanics of game players, and of course the level of success or failure of the given games in question.

To very briefly bring up a related example that was earlier noted;  Animation canceling in fighting/action games.  This is something that is super unrealistic yet is a very core part of that genre of gaming almost across the board.  Animation canceling helps with feel and fluidity while adding an extra layer of skill to the gameplay elements.

Realism can be good, but only in the right places.  This is not one of those places.

Im not sure how not being able to reload would hurt them

u can still reload right after stunning enemies with volts 1. And his 1 still allows dodging around and is more energy efficient. its pretty different to his 4. if it really is too similar, then isnt that a problem with his abillties and shouldnt they be tweaked? 

vauban as a purist cc archetype. well that means he just has to throw down a ball and he can spend the next 20 seconds reloading safely right? enemies are being hard CC'ed, no stress, why the rush?

 

im not asking for realism, im asking for logical immersion. what i mean is the warframe universe (and other non trash tier games) should be more consistent and follow its own rules. basically just make up your mechanics with vague explanations and just stick with them. usually reloading requires 2 hands in warframe. so it should always require 2 hands then.  like i said above volt and vauban would be just fine without it

also why doesnt trinity have 1 handed abilities? 3 of her abilities use the same animation (why DE) and they basically consist of her pointing her left hand outwards and some exaggerated body movement. they could have easily made them one handed abilities but they didnt. considering how EV works where shooting a target releases all the energy, EV being a 1 handed abillity would have been great. but nope. its not. and noone weeps for poor trin. but anyway, shes doing ok without it.
 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ragingwasabi

[Neightrix]

In one of the recent updates, Volt's Speed was changed to cancel reloads on cast, whereas it previously enhanced the speed of the remaining reload time. Reporting as a big because it was not listed in any update notes.

[Gravitus123]

Yeah one handed abilities now cancel reloads.If this is intentional its a dumb change