Why I don't play with Limbos right now

[FierceRadiance]

I understand this is a topic of some debate ATM, so I may get salted over this. But that's never bothered me.

I recently went into a PUG, and discovered almost immediately that I couldn't shoot anything. I recognized that one of my fellow Tenno was wearing a Limbo. I commented in chat that I don't currently play with Limbos, because they can prevent me from shooting and killing things. I wished them all luck, and politely Aborted out of the mission.

Subsequently, one of the players, before he ignored me (how delightfully childlike!) felt the need to PM me to explain how I can work around his use of Limbo and still kill things. It was so kind of him.

That's the heart of my issue with Limbo right now. I like WF's smooth gameplay, and I like shooting and killing things ~ It's why, at level 22 and 2000+ hours in the game, I'm still playing it. Put simply, Limbo as DE has currently empowered him, prevents me from doing what I like, what I thought the game has always been about: "Warriors of Gun and Blade". Yes, of course I can find a way to overcome the handicap that Limbo imposes on his fellow players. But why bother? Why should I have to do that?

As a side issue, if I run into you wearing Limbo, and I tell the group I don't play with Limbos right now, and then I inconvenience myself by Aborting out of the mission...could I ask you to not be a sphincter about your entitlement to play as YOU want? Yes, I'm leaving the mission one player short, but I'm not spending the mission doing things to inconvenience you, I'm not pouring salt all over you in chat, I'm not letting you die if your squishy 'frame becomes dead, I'm not doing anything except being polite about not wanting to play with this particular WF.

[Shad0wWatcher]

Respectable

[Chipputer]

Yeah, I have absolutely no idea how to properly play with Limbo, right now, and I shouldn't have to learn an entirely different method of play just because someone wants to cast a few powers and monopolize the entire mission for their own enjoyment.

On the other hand you end up with people, just as bad, doing Sorties with Limbo where they just stand around doing nothing but putting the target and themselves in the rift, contributing nothing else of value.

[CeePee]

That's quite the prejudice against everyone playing Limbo, I'm assuming it was mobile defence or some other mission type with a timer? There's hardly any reason to use his #2 unless it's a mission type like that where you can just CC everything and cruise the mission with ease.

Not all Limbo players are bad.

[Stoner]

I like playing Limbo mainly because of his Stasis. But I quickly realized most players hate it. So to avoid making everyone mad I only play him solo. 

I think he's really awesome but... As he is now, he will remain a solo frame. 

 

Quote

On the other hand you end up with people, just as bad, doing Sorties with Limbo where they just stand around doing nothing but putting the target and themselves in the rift, contributing nothing else of value.

And believe it or not, there are people just putting themselves in the rift in missions like Akkad and doing nothing. Just standing there. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Stoner74

[FierceRadiance]

1 minute ago, CeePee said:

That's quite the prejudice against everyone playing Limbo, I'm assuming it was mobile defence or some other mission type with a timer? There's hardly any reason to use his #2 unless it's a mission type like that where you can just CC everything and cruise the mission with ease.

Not all Limbo players are bad.

Your assertion is accurate; it IS a prejudice, and as a general rule I oppose prejudice. This situation would be an exception to that. And your statement about not all Limbo players being bad is also of course correct.

That said.....what would the better response be to entering a mission, finding a Limbo, and not knowing anything more about the player or his (or her) style?  Everything I said could be correct on any given mission, and I have no more desire to question them than they probably would to being questioned, so.....?

[(PSN)zhris_71]

Don't hate us all, we're not that bad.

Personally, I'm not taking my Limbo into a public game until I get the hang of the new mechanics, and can play well with others without being a jerk. Unless it's a Rescue, then all I do is Banish the target. Promise.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

I'm not doing anything except being polite about not wanting to play with this particular WF.

To be fair, it can be interpreted as rude to some. I'd much rather take someone seeing a frame they resent and just leaving at the beginning rather than someone who feels the need to vocalize the reason why they're leaving. It's a pub, there's really no need to have parting words. 

I'm not trying to be hostile, honest, but the way I see it in the OP, it seems you're putting this particular Limbo player in the wrong light when they could have simply seen it as provoking. And at this point, Limbo players who pub are probably used to the flak as much as pre rework Ash. It looks to me like they thought your statement was no different from any other and assumed you were attacking them.

3 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

Subsequently, one of the players, before he ignored me (how delightfully childlike!) felt the need to PM me to explain how I can work around his use of Limbo and still kill things. It was so kind of him.

 

[PierceSG]

Limbo's abilities don't lend themselves well to team work.

Banished enemies can't be damaged by allies unless they are banished too.

Allies inside the Cataclysm can't shoot enemies outside the Cataclysm (unless, they are Banished).

If Stasis is casted, all ranged weapons are rendered useless. Unless they overwhelm it with a lot of projectiles, this breaking Stasis.

If the team were not randomly put together, Limbo can be a great asset.

E.g. Defense mission. Limbo, Trinity, and two other frames that can kill with powers. Limbo's Cataclysm+Stasis combo will surely keep the objective safe. Trinity to provide energy to the other two who will then use their powers to kill. (Also using melee to make things die faster)

 

But all those talks are about pre-made groups, players who came together and planned what to do.

 

Throw a Limbo into a public/random group? Not going to work well, unless the Limbo hold himself back from using all his abilities.

Edited May 6, 2017 by PierceSG

[chainchompguy3]

Well, limbo doesn't really PREVENT you from killing things. He just kind of makes you wait for it. Wait for stasis to end to see your damage dealt, wait for limbo to banish you into the place where he put all the baddies, etc.

I understand this can be a deal-breaker, but still. There is a difference.

 

Saddest part is, Limbo's core concept is dividing up who fights who. So at the very core of his concept, he is guaranteed to always been hated, because he takes control away from other players: He decides how to divide it up.
 

Spoiler

 

So the only way this is going to be resolved is if

A: DE gives up and flat-out removes Limbo, or reworks him to the point where he bears nothing in common with his old self.

or

B: Players give up, and either just avoid him if they can't stand it (such as OP), or just accept it along with Loki Switch-teleport and Vauban Bounce.

 

 

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

Am I the only one that wants old Limbo back?  They made him much more complicated and a little worse at his old niche roles while making him more annoying to play with on a team.

[devildevil21]

There are two types of limbo players:

Those who troll, who activate stasis and cataclysm or banish enemies, preventing allies from attacking them, or banish allies so they can't hack.

Those will get flamed of course, and reported if possible.

 

And there are those who work their butts to be useful. They try to banish X enemies and kill them to give allies a breathing room. They banish a room full of enemies if they are trying to rescue a target to keep them safe while hacking. They constantly revive allies who fall. They avoid using stasis and cataclysm together to not annoy teammates.

Those, sadly, will also get flamed. Because no matter what, players can't leave their mindset of "OMG, HE STOLE MY KILL! DE PLS JUST DELETE LIMBO!"

 

Now, there are TWO types of players based on their reactions with limbo.

 

There are those who ragequit, flame, attack, make real life threatens, or just throw the mission if they see a limbo, doesn't matter if type 1 or type 2 limbo.

Those players deserve to be beaten up. Type 2 limbo (the USEFUL ones) are trying as much as they can to help the team, and they STILL get attacked by YOU.

 

And there are those who see a limbo, ask politely to not do A or B, or already used to the gameplay of limbo, change their gameplay SLIGHTLY and happily fight other enemies while banished enemies are taken care of by limbo. They are the players who in the end of the match say "Great run! Thanks! :)" and/or always try to be helpful and non-agressive.

Those players, damn, they're rare. But I've had luck, as a limbo player, to meet a few of them not much time ago. I can tell you this, how GOOD the match felt. I killed enemies in the rift, they killed enemies not in the rift, the enemies didn't STAND A CHANCE against us.

 

Why did I bring this up? Because OP is a type 1 player who pretends to be a type 2 player, while accusing both bad (type 1) and good (type 2) limbo's for ruining his time. 

 

But you know what I say to you, op? You left the mission? Too bad, I can do my work and your, and you won't be missed. Next time you see a limbo, if you're really UNSURE if limbo is good or not, ask him in chat how he plays limbo, what's his strategy. This takes 15s tops, to ask and get an answer. And before you know it, you'll be an unstopable force with a revive machine (limbo) who will always cover your back.

 

Till then, i can only hope I'm never matched with you.

[iMalicious]

I read your post and all I could think when I read he ignored you and you called him childish was isn't leaving the mission due to not wanting to play with a certain class also childish, suck it up and deal with it, finish the mission and move on (pretty simple). I would have ignored you to or sent you a message as well, nobody likes when someone just leaves a mission due to stupidity of not liking a specific frame.

Edited May 6, 2017 by iMalicious

[Deraios]

11 minutes ago, devildevil21 said:

Those, sadly, will also get flamed. Because no matter what, players can't leave their mindset of "OMG, HE STOLE MY KILL! DE PLS JUST DELETE LIMBO!"

 

Yup, that's OP for you. I don't get this at all. Limbo is so powerful now but I've seen like 2 Limbos today at best. Cataclysm gives you breathing room and energy regeneration, making it extremely easy to pick fights as enemies enter the rift. Stopping time gives you even more breathing room...

 

But hey, "muh killing power is now limited by another player and I can't have that".

[FoxyKabam]

I feel the same

while you can still kill things inside stasis half the time it'll take me a second to realize I'm in it so I end up wasting ammo, at that point I have no idea how many bullets it could take to kill something, so I'm either under or over firing.

its a cool and useful power, but its also annoying which is why I just leave the mission once stasis goes off, because then it becomes tug of war; can I break his stasis enough times to where he'll just stop? or will he drop energy pizzas and start back up again

best to save everyone the trouble and just leave without any fuss

 

[alphaflight666]

What will happen:

- Tonkor will be changed so that when you kill yourself with it you lose one MR rank,

- a few popular weapons will be nerfed,

- some frame will be reworked to be more annoying than those weapons ever were.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

If you're a Limbo who doesn't want to inconvenience people, stick to banish and avoid Stasis entirely. focus Banish AoE on heavy units and focus on taking them out while others mop up trash mobs. other frames like Ash can be played this way too.

[PsiWarp]

Limbo's abilities by function are very good, they provide a high degree of control over the battlefield when used properly.

However, the execution of the abilities are not team-friendly enough, to the point where non-Limbo players have to follow a list of rules just to function well in the Rift, and multiple Limbos have a hard time trying to work with one another. I hate to say it but that is bad design.

[Eldnacpeek]

On 5/6/2017 at 4:41 PM, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

stick to banish and avoid Stasis entirely. focus Banish AoE on heavy units and focus on taking them out while others mop up trash mobs

 

Then you might as well just use Stasis. If you're focusing your Banish, why not give the bonus of having the enemy be completely disabled upon entering the Rift? If it's the Limbo's task to target heavies via Banish, why not use every tool available? It's not like a few select banished units are going to cause a fuss over the squad.

It's the pairing of Cataclysm and Stasis that people have a problem with.

Edited May 20, 2017 by LazerSkink

[Hypernaut1]

The new limbo is confusing. He was rather straight forward.... But now I have no idea what's going on when he's in a mission. 

I honestly don't think he is a well designed co-op frame. His powers sound cool, but I shouldn't need a tutorial to understand how to play with one.

[Arithin]

Seems like a fine stance to take.  Limbo is a strong solo frame and a useful organized group frame.  Players trying to use his whole kit in random pug are just asking for far more drama that a simple mission is worth.  This is not a bad thing, as many frames have strengths and weaknesses.  People who run frames with no group synergy at all bring the similar issues to squads as well.

 

Thought leaving without a word may feel rude, you'll save yourself the drama if you just dropped without the limbo callout.  Which they probably took personally.  Everyone has their favorite frame, and the more specialized the kit, the more... persistent the fan.  They're fully aware of his strengths and weaknesses and are either indifferent to the issues he causes, or are convinced in their ability to finesse the situation.  Neither group will listen.

[(PSN)psycofang]

3 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

That said.....what would the better response be to entering a mission, finding a Limbo, and not knowing anything more about the player or his (or her) style?  Everything I said could be correct on any given mission, and I have no more desire to question them than they probably would to being questioned, so.....?

Leave quietly and dont off handedly provoke others maybe?

 

You couldve just left without telling the limbo its effectively their fault for playing limbo is as to why youre quitting.

Especially if they havent made the mistake yet.

What you did you willingly caused.

Edited May 7, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[FierceRadiance]

In reading the responses, several folk have pointed out that I may have provoked the situation by being honest in chat about why I was leaving, that I could have simply left the mission without comment.

Honestly, it's a valid point. My reasoning in announcing why I was leaving is two-fold: one, IMHO I also run the risk of appearing to be rude by simply bailing on a mission. There are any number of reasons why I might leave, many of which are negative. The repercussions of leaving a team short-handed are almost always negative, and so I thought an explanation was in order for my potentially-rude bail.

My other reason is, hey, I'm trying to do the (dare I say it) "noble" thing, and accumulating Aborts against my record so I can leave in a way that causes as few issues as possible. I'm not doing any of the other things which I could do - I'm not ranting, griefing, or causing any other negative consequences for a player who may very well be thinking more of his or her own wants than what's good for the team. So since IMHO I'm taking the hit here, not the player causing the problem, I get to tell my teammates why I'm leaving. In my mind, it was a better choice than simply vanishing, but I respect that reasonable minds can differ, and other players may not see it that way.

And again, my larger issue isn't how players should or shouldn't react to Limbos on their team. My issue is, why did you do this to your players, DE? Did this grouping of abilities really seem like the BEST combination possible - pitting some players against others in this way?

Edited May 7, 2017 by FierceRadiance

[Miser_able]

He was childish for blocking you after pming you but you were equally, maybe even more, childish for deciding that just because someone is using a certain frame that you won't even bother playing with them. There are many ways to play like you want with a limbo, the easiest is to simply move into a different room. It's not that hard, but I guess people always have to try and find the worse way to do something. 

[(XBOX)Roads8532]

Real quick: Do other Limbos not melee enemies they stasis? Then again, I prefer going solo on most of my missions unless its a survival/excavation.