Just a reminder that the Ash rework fixed ZERO of the problems and we got an arguably weaker ability that costs wayyyy more energy now

[Me_Ash_Main]

6 minutes ago, uAir said:

Stealth, teleport to enemies, Covert Lethality dagger.

If you need CL to play Ash, you're doing something wrong, even average and fully modded melee can one shot everyone up to 100 level.

Thats why we need another 4th ability or just let clones help you like before, not after you're done with your daily dose of cutscenes.

Rework/redo BS augment to be less terrible.

 

[Trickst3rGawd]

5 minutes ago, Me_Ash_Main said:

If you need CL to play Ash, you're doing something wrong, even average and fully modded melee can one shot everyone up to 100 level.

Thats why we need another 4th ability or just let clones help you like before, not after you're done with your daily dose of cutscenes.

Rework/redo BS augment to be less terrible.

 

Can we just like^ Can we just like read this out loud together. Feast your eyes on this right here^

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

You must be joking. Ash is still powerful and BS is still strong. You must never play Ash since BS doesn't make enemies invulnerable anymore and you must have really low efficiency if you're running into energy problems. Ash became one of my favorite frames after his rework. 

[Trickst3rGawd]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RevenantRequiem said:

You must be joking. Ash is still powerful and BS is still strong. You must never play Ash since BS doesn't make enemies invulnerable anymore and you must have really low efficiency if you're running into energy problems. Ash became one of my favorite frames after his rework. 

Low key kind of to hook you guys in. Yes he's powerful but he could use more tweaks. His rework was more of a nerf then an all around buff to him. The majority of people as well as I would just like the cut scenes to be gone my friend.

 

[jfhsanseiIII]

I wanted bladestorm to be a skill based ability. 

Target a unit, attack, timer starts, the faster you target the next unit you do more damage, combo counter starts, the player can continually (re)target units and benefit from an increased combo counter.  Players are rewarded for skill.  Players could theoretically continue the bladestorm indefinitely as long as they can quickly lock onto the next target.  The automated portion of the skill disappears and lols are had.  

[ashrah]

i would ash 4 rework in aoe smoke bomb or somthing like that  current blade storm feels very cluncky

[(PSN)ArnnFrost]

I was somewhat hyped for Ash's rework, i never liked BS (Bull Storm?) But when DE said they're going to do something about the annoying cutscene and how lazy it is i thought they'd change it completely into a new ability... DISSA-POINTEEEED xD

THEY DIDN'T EVEN REMOVE THE DAMN CUTSCENE!!!

 

Disclaimer tho: Ash is an awesome warframe without BladeStorm, yes his invisibility isn't as good as Loki's and his dps isn't that great without a dagger build and teleport but you can still be creative with him especially with his team friendly augments. That is why Ash is my favorate and always been, screw Bladestorm and whoever said it's the only useful thing about my Space Batman!

Edited May 9, 2017 by (PS4)ArnnFrost
Which was... You guessed it, the main issue and the reason for the rework suggestions!!!

[Ironlixivium]

I used to use ash on occasion. Now it's never. The current version is terrible. It does the same thing, with the same crappy animation, except now you can't attack an area. Essentially it's a slow Los version of the old ash. I would literally use any frame over him, regardless of the situation. He needs a fix. I recommend saying this in feedback.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

personally I enjoy Ash, mostly running smoke screen duration with Fatal Teleport. I suppose a more drastic rework of Bladestorm might have been more enjoyable for others, but it seems DE thought manual targeting was the best choice. not sure how you're getting energy problems though, you do know that it costs less to Bladestorm if you use Smoke Screen first, right?

the cutscene doesn't bother me that much since I rarely use Bladestorm on him.

 

[JohnKable]

I was a an avid Ash user, not because i like it but because im a bored MR21 and just wanted to do missions the easiest way possible.
And a High power strenght, max efficiency, double trickery Ash build allowed me to do so. It was a Lazy solution i coul bring literaly everywhere, good in exterminate ad in defense with brainless spamming of his BS.

The change was needed but not that change. The change nerfed his 4th to the ground since till really high levels it far more efficient using ANY weapon instead. 
Now costs more, slower to target and even slower execution since clones pop up only with multi marks.
It needs to have faster and polished animation having 3 clones doing the job but just making it NOT spammable. How can this be achieved?

Same mechanic as Nidus: having to build stacks or having a meter to fill with other abilities and/or stealth kills and/or melee combo counter (or why not, having the meter fill with the time he is undetected)
Fits his theme and makes bladestorm NOT spammable, weight the charge needed to cast it so he can cast one every 30 seconds tops unless its in a very crowded environment where it makes sense you can spam it more so you have some degree of scalability.

Ability spam: fixed

Good degree of scalability: yes

Still a good 4th ability overall: yes

Movie mode: fixed (clones are doin the job)

Stupidly good interaction with trickery: fixed (again, clones are doing the job)

And even if interaction with trickery was intended, being less spammable means you cant be perma invisible until late game with crowded rooms.
 

Edited May 9, 2017 by JohnKable

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

3 marks got to go, cut scene auto pilot got to go. @Nazrethim your cue good sir. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Nazrethim]

11 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

3 marks got to go, cut scene auto pilot got to go. @Nazrethim your cue good sir. 

Thanks! Now I'm gonna answer EVERYONE! In 3 comments, I will post my proposal as to what to do to make him better in a way that: makes his ult interactive, makes sense, is not P4TW, has synergy with his other abilities, balanced for COnclave, improved augments etc etc.

*REPLY MODE ENGAGE*

5 hours ago, Me_Ash_Main said:

If you need CL to play Ash, you're doing something wrong, even average and fully modded melee can one shot everyone up to 100 level.

Thats why we need another 4th ability or just let clones help you like before, not after you're done with your daily dose of cutscenes.

Rework/redo BS augment to be less terrible.

True. Right now Teleport and Blade Storm overlap because BS is basically a spammed slighly faster Fatal Teleport.

 

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)RevenantRequiem said:

You must be joking. Ash is still powerful and BS is still strong. You must never play Ash since BS doesn't make enemies invulnerable anymore and you must have really low efficiency if you're running into energy problems. Ash became one of my favorite frames after his rework. 

He does work, and he is strong. But his blade storm was crippled instead of reworked, overlaps with teleport (and arguably Shuriken due to bleeds) and Efficiency should be an option, not a mandatory stat (though that has to do with efficiency being broken in the first place. 75% efficiency should be ~54% cost reduction not 75%). Sure, now use him at default power values and see if you can manage that, also, no focus schools nor arcanes allowed! when I say default I mean it.

 

5 hours ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

I wanted bladestorm to be a skill based ability. 

Target a unit, attack, timer starts, the faster you target the next unit you do more damage, combo counter starts, the player can continually (re)target units and benefit from an increased combo counter.  Players are rewarded for skill.  Players could theoretically continue the bladestorm indefinitely as long as they can quickly lock onto the next target.  The automated portion of the skill disappears and lols are had.  

The path to that would be a Stance Ultimate that doesn't encourage mindlessly mashing E, rather using the actual combos or Ash¡s other abilitites, while having the same destrucive potential of old BS with the "convenience" of new one (that is, not getting stuck on the same enemy). The third comment will have a nice surprise for ya :D

58 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

personally I enjoy Ash, mostly running smoke screen duration with Fatal Teleport. I suppose a more drastic rework of Bladestorm might have been more enjoyable for others, but it seems DE thought manual targeting was the best choice. not sure how you're getting energy problems though, you do know that it costs less to Bladestorm if you use Smoke Screen first, right?

DE didn't know what the F to do with Blade Storm, they needed to nerf it but at the same time fool people it was a positive change, they mostly achieved that by throwing distractions (Smoke Screen cast on the move QoL and a shiny Deluxe Skin). Their initial idea was the dumbest in existence: World on Blade storm, when the community pointed out they went for the Second dumbest idea: a marking system that savvy players pointed out A)was not gonna work B)would cost Ftons of energy (if max effi builds were dominant, now they would be mandatory) and C)wouldn't solve anything other than p4tw (Ash's other issues be damned)

58 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

the cutscene doesn't bother me that much since I rarely use Bladestorm on him.

"rarely". His, in theory, most powerful ability goes unused because it s*cks, don't you see anything wrong with that? Some players like it, some hate it, some don't mind it, why not make it optional?

Comments for page 2 Fatal Teleported!

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

7 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Thanks! Now I'm gonna answer EVERYONE! In 3 comments, I will post my proposal as to what to do to make him better in a way that: makes his ult interactive, makes sense, is not P4TW, has synergy with his other abilities, balanced for COnclave, improved augments etc etc.

*REPLY MODE ENGAGE*

True. Right now Teleport and Blade Storm overlap because BS is basically a spammed slighly faster Fatal Teleport.

 

He does work, and he is strong. But his blade storm was crippled instead of reworked, overlaps with teleport (and arguably Shuriken due to bleeds) and Efficiency should be an option, not a mandatory stat (though that has to do with efficiency being broken in the first place. 75% efficiency should be ~54% cost reduction not 75%). Sure, now use him at default power values and see if you can manage that, also, no focus schools nor arcanes allowed! when I say default I mean it.

 

The path to that would be a Stance Ultimate that doesn't encourage mindlessly mashing E, rather using the actual combos or Ash¡s other abilitites, while having the same destrucive potential of old BS with the "convenience" of new one (that is, not getting stuck on the same enemy). The third comment will have a nice surprise for ya :D

DE didn't know what the F to do with Blade Storm, they needed to nerf it but at the same time fool people it was a positive change, they mostly achieved that by throwing distractions (Smoke Screen cast on the move QoL and a shiny Deluxe Skin). Their initial idea was the dumbest in existence: World on Blade storm, when the community pointed out they went for the Second dumbest idea: a marking system that savvy players pointed out A)was not gonna work B)would cost Ftons of energy (if max effi builds were dominant, now they would be mandatory) and C)wouldn't solve anything other than p4tw (Ash's other issues be damned)

"rarely". His, in theory, most powerful ability goes unused because it s*cks, don't you see anything wrong with that? Some players like it, some hate it, some don't mind it, why not make it optional?

Comments for page 2 Fatal Teleported!

This

[Nazrethim]

9 hours ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

-snip-

I want to add that, given the maximum number of targets, current BS has 50 enemy cap. Let's compare the overall cutscene time to old BS.

Old BS, has 18 enemy cap (or attacks, but for the purpose of this comparison let's assume it marks all 18 and instakill everyone). It would require 3 casts to kill 50 enemies (current BS mark cap) spending 300 energy in the process. Since the killing was split evenly between Ash and his clones you would watch roughly 6 finishers. Assuming each Finisher takes 1 second that would make the 3 casts last 18 seconds cutscene (6s x 3 casts). Now let's look at current:

Each Enemy would use 1(3) marks costing 15(45) per enemy. 15(45) x 50 = 750 (2250). Ash attacks everyone himself before the clones take action with additional marks. Assuming each Finisher takes 1s we can look forward to 50 seconds of total cutscene. I can confirm such long arse thing because I've done so in Sortie Bosses like Vor or Lech Kril were such large number of enemies show up.

8 hours ago, Cook-EN- said:

Only thing I want to change about Ash is the cutscene thing. If they got rid of the cutscene and let ash run about while the clones kill for him, that would be great.

There are players who like that cutscene. The right path would be to make it optional. And world on bladestorm is a terrible idea, it always been and always will be.

 

8 hours ago, Blacksonfive said:

My fear with that is that they probably are never touching him again since "he's already been reworked" case closed

Well, they haven't updated his Profile video yet, and they said they would make Trailers for older primes, and since "Spin camera like a maniac to drain all your energy on 5 dudes" doesn't sound like good Trailer material we have hope for a good change.

 

6 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No, leave my Bladestorm alone. If you dont like BS, then choose another frame. BS is his signature ability, everything else you can get with a different frame. 

I do FINE with Ash at all levels of play. He could use improvements (like all frames) but he is not bad and can actually be highly effective.

I can give you a rework that you will probably like, because it  would give Ash tremendous destructive potential without making it a cheesy p4tw. And no overlap with Teleport (and arguably Shuriken).

6 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

He really just needs a few more tweaks to Bladestorm and he'll be fine. Shuriken is a nice DoT ability and Armor Strip with it's Augment, Smokescreen lasts quite awhile and can cloak allies or stun nearby enemies, Teleport is a bit limited but a nice way to finish off a specific enemy with it's Augment, and his Passive and Base Stats work just fine for his intended playstyle.

The problem is that, with current mechanics, BS can't be buffed or tweaked in any postivie way without becoming once again p4tw. DE put themselves into a corner here, if they want to make Ash better and solve his actual (pretty long) list of issues, they need to rework Blade Storm completely.

Page 1 of comments... BLADE STORMED!

Edited May 9, 2017 by Nazrethim

[Nazrethim]

Now, the rework proposal. I've been working on this for roughly a year and a half, it passed trough many changes, but finally reached the zenith were all the issues are solved and actually catters to most groups (except the crowd that wants P4TW back in any form). This is a rework focused on finesse rather than brute force. Skill and attention over turning your brain off. I can answer any technical questions about how it would mechanically work behind the smoke and flash.

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks. Cloud radius is 3m.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max with default Power Range)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, triggering a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups (alternatively 3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode)

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Tap deals 70 Puncture damage

-Hold deals 25 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. It also increases Mobility by 0.4

Tear Gas:

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Teleport: (Tap only, Hold function disabled)

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger)

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

8 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Now, the rework proposal. I've been working on this for roughly a year and a half, it passed trough many changes, but finally reached the zenith were all the issues are solved and actually catters to most groups (except the crowd that wants P4TW back in any form). This is a rework focused on finesse rather than brute force. Skill and attention over turning your brain off. I can answer any technical questions about how it would mechanically work behind the smoke and flash.

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks. Cloud radius is 3m.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max with default Power Range)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, triggering a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups (alternatively 3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode)

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Tap deals 70 Puncture damage

-Hold deals 25 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. It also increases Mobility by 0.4

Tear Gas:

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Teleport: (Tap only, Hold function disabled)

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger)

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

YES!! 

@Nazrethim*drops mic 

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

9 hours ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

@[DE]Megan @[DE]Rebecca  @[DE]Aidan @[DE]Danielle

 

 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

8 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Now, the rework proposal. I've been working on this for roughly a year and a half, it passed trough many changes, but finally reached the zenith were all the issues are solved and actually catters to most groups (except the crowd that wants P4TW back in any form). This is a rework focused on finesse rather than brute force. Skill and attention over turning your brain off. I can answer any technical questions about how it would mechanically work behind the smoke and flash.

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks. Cloud radius is 3m.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max with default Power Range)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, triggering a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups (alternatively 3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode)

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Tap deals 70 Puncture damage

-Hold deals 25 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. It also increases Mobility by 0.4

Tear Gas:

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Teleport: (Tap only, Hold function disabled)

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger)

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

For maximum visibility 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Now, the rework proposal. I've been working on this for roughly a year and a half, it passed trough many changes, but finally reached the zenith were all the issues are solved and actually catters to most groups (except the crowd that wants P4TW back in any form). This is a rework focused on finesse rather than brute force. Skill and attention over turning your brain off. I can answer any technical questions about how it would mechanically work behind the smoke and flash.

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks. Cloud radius is 3m.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max with default Power Range)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, triggering a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups (alternatively 3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode)

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Tap deals 70 Puncture damage

-Hold deals 25 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. It also increases Mobility by 0.4

Tear Gas:

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Teleport: (Tap only, Hold function disabled)

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger)

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

 

[Trickst3rGawd]

12 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Now, the rework proposal. I've been working on this for roughly a year and a half, it passed trough many changes, but finally reached the zenith were all the issues are solved and actually catters to most groups (except the crowd that wants P4TW back in any form). This is a rework focused on finesse rather than brute force. Skill and attention over turning your brain off. I can answer any technical questions about how it would mechanically work behind the smoke and flash.

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage. Also applies a Bleed proc.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks. Cloud radius is 3m.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max with default Power Range)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, triggering a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups (alternatively 3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode)

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Tap deals 70 Puncture damage

-Hold deals 25 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. It also increases Mobility by 0.4

Tear Gas:

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Teleport: (Tap only, Hold function disabled)

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger)

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

yes pls *_*

[HolicErsa]

+1
ash is still a good frame but when you feel that you can only enjoy an ability on solo is just sad, was hoping for an actual bladestorm complete rework and what we got was a tweak so it wasnt as efficient as it was.

[kaliazane]

I never see anyone playing Ash anymore, prices of his parts are probably lowest out of all primed frames because nobody cares. Personally only use I can see for him are endurance runs for aoe armor stripping.

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

DE's response: 

Add more synergy with his abilities by reducing bladestorm's damage, requiring you to perform smoke bomb in order to deal increased damage with bladestorm, but you have to mark enemies with shuriken first.

S Y N E R G Y

Edited May 10, 2017 by Mr.ToastForPresident

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

22 hours ago, Avynire said:

I personally like blade storm targeting mechanic (like mesa pm from 360 to aim) just not a fan of the need to stacking mark and energy cost.

I like it too . 

[TheSteelRat]

IMHO DE dropped the ball on this.  They released the rework, and than scrambled to do the Pacifism defect event, then went on to Christmas holiday break and forgot about the Ash rework because they moved on.

Case in point how sloppy is the arsenal still shows the old Blade storm damage of 2k instead of the reworks 3.2k damage.  Not to hard of a fix IMHO.  I bet Pablo could fix it in as long as it took to compile the code.