Just a reminder that the Ash rework fixed ZERO of the problems and we got an arguably weaker ability that costs wayyyy more energy now

[Trickst3rGawd]

23 minutes ago, -CM-Kinnison said:

IMHO DE dropped the ball on this.  They released the rework, and than scrambled to do the Pacifism defect event, then went on to Christmas holiday break and forgot about the Ash rework because they moved on.

Case in point how sloppy is the arsenal still shows the old Blade storm damage of 2k instead of the reworks 3.2k damage.  Not to hard of a fix IMHO.  I bet Pablo could fix it in as long as it took to compile the code.

Hopefully someone asks a question about him on the next devstream.

[TheSteelRat]

44 minutes ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

Hopefully someone asks a question about him on the next devstream.

I have been trying since the last rework.  DE ignores my question.  I have tried in the Forum topic, and in the stream chat.  Ignored.  i even PMed Rebecca and she replied "we are looking into it"

 

[Trickst3rGawd]

34 minutes ago, -CM-Kinnison said:

I have been trying since the last rework.  DE ignores my question.  I have tried in the Forum topic, and in the stream chat.  Ignored.  i even PMed Rebecca and she replied "we are looking into it"

 

Damn. Any Idea OF a way to make this known to DE?

[UrielColtan]

They have also made it so he can no longer throw shuriken while firing his weapons or reloading them, not to mention neutering his utility against juggernaut. It sometimes feels they just want Ash to be good at nothing. Not killing, not CC, not support, not even stealth.

His 1 is worthless without an augment. He has the shortest invisibility out of all frames with stealth abilities(Loki, Ivara, Wukong, Octavia). Near least versatile mobility out of all the frames with stealth abilities, (wukong go anywhere invisibility, ivara zip lines, Loki is not only already faster than ash but has a more manual teleport.). Matter of fact, Ash also has the least free weilding teleport to speak of(Loki, Nova, Nezha).

No CC to speak of, unlike with multiple other stealth frames,(Loki, Ivara, Octavia). No team helping abilities without an augment that other frames can already do without an augment(Ivara, Octavia, any frame with Naramon). He also has the worst scaling due to mostly being damage based. 

His highest damage dealing abilities are either too slow or use too much energy too. You might as well just be using your weapons at that point, and another frame.

Cmon DE, don't do a ninja like this.

Please go back to the drawing board with Ash. At the very least ditch the awful cutscenes in his ultimate and replace them with a more interactive exalted/channeled state. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Me_Ash_Main]

41 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

They have also made it so he can no longer throw shuriken while firing his weapons or reloading them

You cant with any skill of this type, just report this bug.

 

[UrielColtan]

23 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No, leave my Bladestorm alone. If you dont like BS, then choose another frame. BS is his signature ability, everything else you can get with a different frame. 

I do FINE with Ash at all levels of play. He could use improvements (like all frames) but he is not bad and can actually be highly effective.

Optional toggle is the answer for you guys who like watching cutscenes. Just like with those Archwing toggles. I want more interaction and to actually control a ninja.

Edited May 10, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, -CM-Kinnison said:

Case in point how sloppy is the arsenal still shows the old Blade storm damage of 2k instead of the reworks 3.2k damage.  Not to hard of a fix IMHO.  I bet Pablo could fix it in as long as it took to compile the code.

Actually that was old BS damage too. The 3.2 is accounting Steel Charge aura.

[Nazrethim]

58 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Please go back to the drawing board with Ash. At the very least ditch the awful cutscenes in his ultimate and replace them with a more interactive exalted/channeled state. 

Actually, they don't really need to go to the drawing board, like me, there are many players who have proposed workable ideas that could be taken.

My proposal is arguably the easiest as I didn't really add any new mechanic, just rearranged currently existing mechanics in a different way, so they could actually have all that cobbled together in about two months judging by how long they took with Limbo, and with little to no bugs since it would be made of stuff they already have.

[UrielColtan]

24 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Actually, they don't really need to go to the drawing board, like me, there are many players who have proposed workable ideas that could be taken.

My proposal is arguably the easiest as I didn't really add any new mechanic, just rearranged currently existing mechanics in a different way, so they could actually have all that cobbled together in about two months judging by how long they took with Limbo, and with little to no bugs since it would be made of stuff they already have.

I already know about other suggestions from the feedback topic, its a figure of speech. I don't particularly like your clone idea, which others have also already suggested and DE already attempted, dubbing "World on Ash" at one point( though they could have remedied the problem by simply using less clones if they wanted to still use that proposed method, that they actually developed and called too OP upon testing.).

That would still involve just letting the clones do the work for me, which I would find boring(though I would more prefer it over the cutscenes). I want a channeled state where I get accentuated abilities and maneuvering. I even posted video examples in the feedback topic a while ago.

 

I don't want "easiest" to develop and i don't care how long it genuinely takes to develop, as long as it is getting developed.

Edited May 10, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Nazrethim]

6 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

I don't particularly like your clone idea

Fair enough.

6 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

, which others have also already suggested and DE already attempted, dubbing "World on Ash" at one point( though they could have remedied the problem by simply using less clones if they wanted to still use that proposed method, that they actually developed and called too OP upon testing.).

My idea isn't actually World on Ash or World on Blade storm, that is a dumb as hell idea.

6 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

That would still involve just letting the clones do the work for me, which I would find boring. I want a channeled state where I get accentuated abilities and maneuvering. I even posted video examples in the feedback topic a while ago.

Well, the problem of improving the abilities while in that mode is that it would make said abilities worthless while the channeled mode isn't active. Also, straight channeled mode makes Efficiency the mandatory stat, which is kind of the current problem, hence why I made it Duration based. Essentially my rework idea puts emphasis on Stance Combos (so the player can't turn his brain off with Slide spam macros or Espam, unlike Exalted Spam and Hysteria) and using his other abilities (which experiment no real change and are powerful on their own right, thus making them useful even if you aren't in Blade Storm mode) while not forcing any specific build (all abilities are tailored to work at default values).

[UrielColtan]

28 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Fair enough.

My idea isn't actually World on Ash or World on Blade storm, that is a dumb as hell idea.

Well, the problem of improving the abilities while in that mode is that it would make said abilities worthless while the channeled mode isn't active. Also, straight channeled mode makes Efficiency the mandatory stat, which is kind of the current problem, hence why I made it Duration based. Essentially my rework idea puts emphasis on Stance Combos (so the player can't turn his brain off with Slide spam macros or Espam, unlike Exalted Spam and Hysteria) and using his other abilities (which experiment no real change and are powerful on their own right, thus making them useful even if you aren't in Blade Storm mode) while not forcing any specific build (all abilities are tailored to work at default values).

Uh, no, accentuated abilities as in different actions in an exalted like state, not merely a boring buff. Ash stats like efficiency should obviously be tweaked for accommodation. My idea actually accommodates the use of combos as my video example in feed back conveyed. The combo system also needs to be tweaked, which they say they are in the process of doing. Actually use more than one button for once hopefully (reload button is just there being useless in melee stance and it is right next to the melee key.).

I noticed a Nidus suggestion and that's the same issue and I would rather not have Ash be a Nidus clone having certain abilities unusable until he has stacks.

I think his teleport shouldn' t just be left alone either, I want it usable without a target, though with more limited range when not targeting, Shuriken relying on an augment to be useful also needs to go.

Edited May 10, 2017 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

On 5/8/2017 at 10:44 PM, uAir said:

Do you use Excalibur 1?

I use Excals 1 all the time, fun for mobility and closing gaps. The real question should be "do you use Excal's 3", to which the answer is, hardly. His 3 can be changed or be replaced completely as well.

[Nazrethim]

42 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Uh, no, accentuated abilities as in different actions in an exalted like state, not merely a boring buff.

Yes, I see your point, but again, without Cooldowns in the game to prevent super mode active all the time, how do you make the other abilities better in this mode without actually making the super mode flat out mandatory?

42 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Ash stats like efficiency should obviously be tweaked for accommodation.

Actually, the whole root of the problem is how Efficiency in warframe is borked as discussed here:

Spoiler

 

 

42 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

My idea actually accommodates the use of combos as my video example in feed back conveyed. The combo system also needs to be tweaked, which they say they are in the process of doing. Actually use more than one button for once hopefully (reload button is just there being useless in melee stance and it is right next to the melee key.).

I made threads about that exact same topic with the exact same premise more than once :3

42 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

I noticed a Nidus suggestion and that's the same issue and I would rather not have Ash be a Nidus clone having certain abilities unusable until he has stacks.

I don't know what Nidus would have to do with Ash, can you link the suggestion you read or quote it?

42 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

I think his teleport shouldn' t just be left alone either, I want it usable without a target, though with more limited range when not targeting, Shuriken relying on an augment to be useful also needs to go.

Just a little question, have you read the rework I proposed? Cause Teleport without target is right there too. Shuriken also gets functionallity without Augment too as a snipinng/herd hitting attack.

 

 

[UrielColtan]

45 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes, I see your point, but again, without Cooldowns in the game to prevent super mode active all the time, how do you make the other abilities better in this mode without actually making the super mode flat out mandatory?

Do you not get that the other abilties are the same? Without cool downs? Constant drain on energy is enough.  Do you never use weapons ever again? The incentives to not be in that mode all the time are already there.

 

45 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Actually, the whole root of the problem is how Efficiency in warframe is borked as discussed here:

No, that is one problem, it is not one actually specifically detailing functioning mechanics, which are what I am also quite concerned about regarding Ash and other particular Warframes and systems of commands. That is a subject of stats that has a basic and obvious number allocating remedy. 

It is a bit odd though to  complain about efficiency that way while asking what the incentive for not using a channeled ult exclusively, is. Obviously its not very incentivizing if the energy efficiency is borked because of a cap as you say.

 

45 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I don't know what Nidus would have to do with Ash, can you link the suggestion you read or quote it?

It was stated in this topic somewhere. Another variation on Ash sending his clones basically.

 

45 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Just a little question, have you read the rework I proposed? Cause Teleport without target is right there too. Shuriken also gets functionallity without Augment too as a snipinng/herd hitting attack.

I was mainly responding to this quote in your prior comment.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

which experiment no real change and are powerful on their own right

Made it sound like you don't want any of his other current abilities tweaked. Apologies if that's not what you meant.

We seem to basically agree for the most part, apparently.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Nazrethim]

44 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

 Constant drain on energy is enough.  Do you never use weapons ever again? The incentives to not be in that mode all the time are already there.

Good point.

44 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

No, that is one problem, it is not one actually specifically detailing functioning mechanics, which are what I am also quite concerned about regarding Ash and other particular Warframes and systems of commands. That is a subject of stats that has a basic and obvious number allocating remedy. 

It is a bit odd though to  complain about efficiency that way while asking what the incentive for not using a channeled ult exclusively, is. Obviously its not very incentivizing if the energy efficiency is borked because of a cap as you say.

Oh excuse me, I just read Efficiency and jumped to the stat. Anyway, yes, Ash's energy efficiency is on the ground regarding BS and to some extent, Shuriken.

44 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

It was stated in this topic somewhere. Another variation on Ash sending his clones basically.

Page 2, JohnKable's comment. 10th comment (reading top to bottom). And no I don't agree with that one. Go down 5 comments and you will see my Ash Rework proposal, I'm sure you will find it... a bit more interesting (or I can copy paste it again if you wish)

44 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Made it sound like you don't want any of his other current abilities tweaked. Apologies if that's not what you meant.

Apologies accepted.

44 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

We seem to basically agree for the most part, apparently.

Indeed. We're on the same boat: We want better Ash, but not mindless Press # to Win. And something with synergy.

[(XBOX)rocketstar31]

I like him!

[Hypernaut1]

7 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Optional toggle is the answer for you guys who like watching cutscenes. Just like with those Archwing toggles. I want more interaction and to actually control a ninja.

Choosing another frame is already an available option for you guys who seem to want a completely different frame.

If you want "clones" to do the work, you can choose Ember. If you want an "exhalted stance" you can choose Excalibur or Valkyr. If you need invisibility there are a number of other options with other frames.

Ash is fine.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Trickst3rGawd]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Choosing another frame is already an available option for you guys who seem to want a completely different frame.

If you want "clones" to do the work, you can choose Ember. If you want an "exhalted stance" you can choose Excalibur or Valkyr. If you need invisibility there are a number of other options with other frames.

Ash is fine.

He could be better ?

[Zoretor]

Don't know if it's been mentioned already in this thread (I'm not going to read it all), but the perfect solution to make Ash as good as he can be would be what Brozime preached at the time:

• Make Bladestorm free from the damn fixed cam (allowing you to keep playing Ash). Just remove it. Aditionally, marked enemies can still be attacked simultaneouly by other players.

Done. Perfect Ash.

There is absolutely no reason to not have it be like this.

[Faeduin]

I've always envisioned Blade Storm being an hold-to-expand/charge (meaning hold the power's button down and radius/damage expands to a certain point over time) type of ability that on release would throw out clones to attack targets in said radius, much like the dark energy area attack Wolf Link uses from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.

 This would have synergy with Smoke Screen (survivability while channeling) and potentially teleport (on teleport cast is released at location) the balance would be that it would immobilize you similar to Mesa's Peacemaker while rewarding you for well timed Teleports.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Kedai

[DxAdder]

Mesa/Sayrn/Ash & Draco  Gone but never forgotten !

 

 

 

 

 

[(XBOX)FISTO ROBOT0]

If we simply sent out the clones to do what they do while we are allowed to continue playing I think would satisfy me completely :) not sure how difficult that is to do because I thought that was the plan all along to remove the forced camera. But perhaps it ended up being too difficult. Either way I hope it gets a second look.

[Hypernaut1]

3 hours ago, Trickst3rGawd said:

He could be better ?

Of course, but he doesn't need a complete rework again. He is what he is.

I say heck no to a world on fire clone move or another exhalted stance. I have Excalibur and Ember and don't need a clone. Ash is unique in the way his ult works. Leave it that way. These suggestions are horrible.

I'm always open to tweaks to a frame though.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)FISTO ROBOT0 said:

If we simply sent out the clones to do what they do while we are allowed to continue playing I think would satisfy me completely :) not sure how difficult that is to do because I thought that was the plan all along to remove the forced camera. But perhaps it ended up being too difficult. Either way I hope it gets a second look.

Actually, if you have some experience in game developing, you would realise that they did jacksquat to Ash really, zero mechanics were altered in any meaningful way. The World on Bladestorm is a dumb idea. Why? because it's not interactive and it won't make people play more, it will make people sit on their arses while everything dies around them, think uber version of Ember.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 Ash is unique in the way his ult works. Leave it that way. These suggestions are horrible.

What if he got a skill based Stance Ultimate (that actually required to use the combos, not macro E or Slide attack and turn brain off) and KEPT the Cinematic chain-Finishing?