Suggestion: A solution for Snipers and Launchers

[KaeseSchnitte]

Snipers have long since suffered from not being able to handle many enemies at once and they are not able to make up for that in damage. They are getting almost never used outside of "Sniper Only" Sorties.

Launchers have the problem of potentially damaging the user, often times fatally. Since their nerf, even the most popular launchers, Tonkor and Penta, see little use.

My suggestion will not try to fix the problems both weapon types face. Instead, I will try to shift their focus and give them proper advantages to counter disadvantages.

Suggestion:

• Move Snipers and Launchers to their own loadout slot. Add a fourth, unlockable weapon slot to the player's loadout.
• Severly limit the ammo drop rate
  • For example, 20 shot per mission / full rotation in endless missions
• Powercreep them to make them worthwhile
  • Snipers should be able to oneshot almost everything, punch through Nullifier bubbles, Arctic Eximi globes, etc.
    • Add more heavy units that favor the use of Snipers
  • Launchers should be room clearers, dealing high damage over a large area
• Add a quickshot option
  • Similar to quick melee

This will hopefully give both weapon types a proper place in the game. As it stands now, neither Launchers, nor Snipers can be used without severe downsides. This makes both types unfavorable to use compared to other weapon types that don't have those downsides. Moving them into their own weapon slot would eliminate the need for them to compete with the other weapon types and could instead be used as an emergency measure when getting pressured by enemies.

Their place in the game could be compared to underbarrel attachments in other shooter games.

Edited May 12, 2017 by KaeseSchnitte

[LevitatingNarwhal]

I... actually really like this idea. Rename the sniper ammo to "Special ammo", too. This gives me an incentive not only to take my Rubico off the shelf not only more than once a month, but to actually enjoy using it because I know it won't 2 or 3 shot an enemy it should have oneshot, which makes it way more reliable than it currently is.

[Elvangreen]

So i will be able to carry my rubico, my somaP, my AklexP, and a pair of swords?.. sounds kinda strange.

And your proposition includes keeping self damage, and just buffing damage?   +1 for that.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Elvangreen

[Milinko]

Can't say I hate this idea but I do believe it is to late to use this as a resolution with rivens having already being released and being sold and bought for so much plat that making them god weapons on their own makes that redundant and certain people already loving sniper although in minority like tactical potato. I think that this could be a sub class of weapon like super snipers and super launchers but that feels like overkill, when I personally don't have an issue with any specific enemy in the game other than sapping ospreys and even that is resolved by using ignus. Ultimately it goes into weapon choice before entering a mission and understanding what enemies you are going up against.

[taiiat]

so in short, make Sniper Rifles and Launchers of various sorts into a get out of jail free card - a screen clear bomb.

i don't see why the way Gameplay is 'balanced' in Warframe that screen clear bombs provide anything that your other Weapons wouldn't already. without tons of stacked Multipliers and Enemies being permanently incapacitated then would be desired for sure, but that's not exactly the game we have.

[Fallen_Echo]

Now this is some worthy suggestion.

My main problem with snipers was that they are weak and pointless to use when a literal swarm comes for you. In other games, for example in borderlands 2 the snipers have bullet sway yes but they feel like powerful weapons to quickly take out faraway targets or big threats.

The launchers main problem was just like in the upper. They are weak to the point when i can shot ogris into a crowd of grunts and they wont even feel it while the gun flat-out murders me. In borderlands 2 i had a rocket launcher filled with acid rockets releasing acid rockets as it travelled forward an excellent crowd killer and a suicide weapon if you cant aim, but it worth using.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

I'd like to add on that they could still be used in the primary slot with their current stats as well, just not the same weapon in both slots. I love the Lanka and Zarr as is, got rivens to make them godly, and would rather not have only a few clips per mission just because people can't keep their distance and DE refuses to give snipers the buff they deserve. Otherwise like the idea.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

I'd like to add on that they could still be used in the primary slot with their current stats as well, just not the same weapon in both slots. I love the Lanka and Zarr as is, got rivens to make them godly, and would rather not have only a few clips per mission just because people can't keep their distance and DE refuses to give snipers the buff they deserve. Otherwise like the idea.

It would be great if the slots Op promises would just simply grant +200% buff to all stats.

That way you have the option to dedicate these weapons to true last resort/precision kill guns or choose to run normally with thrm without a bonus.

 

Sidenote: the new slots should only be avaible to snipers and launchers with self damage.

[DSpite]

I think a "4th slot" is way overkill. I can't see DE doing that JUST so we an all carry a Sniper/Launcher. Actually, then, it will just make EVERYONE carry a "spare" Tonkor, I mean, I LITERALLY think that's what will happen, millions of people with Tonkors/Penta in the last slot because "why not".

One change to slots, that I still think DE won't do, would just allow Primary/Secondary to be whatever you like, so you could carry a Rifle and a Sniper, and STILL, highly probable people will carry say, a Soma, AND a Tonkor.

As long as there is "imbalances" to weapons damage/mechanics, most people will just carry the best kill combinations, not the "fun" combinations.

Weapons in games like COD4 attempt to balance on functionality, while we focus on "most killing power with least drawbacks". Our weapon selections are not equal, we tend to simply focus on DPS. You give players more flexibility, they will always just pick extra DPS.

Snipers? You could give me a Sniper rifle with infinite damage and infinite ammo, and still, by sitting up on a high spot, never missing a shot, on a Defense mission, the Pod will still be overrun and killed, because even at 1-2 kills per second average, the "swarm" and their AoE's will take it out, even just on Star Chart higher level missions.

 

 

 

[Fallen_Echo]

22 minutes ago, DSpite said:

Snipers? You could give me a Sniper rifle with infinite damage and infinite ammo

Getting the sniper with the biggest fire rate and magsize and people would ditch their weapons for these buffs.

[PrVonTuckIII]

The only issue is that carrying this many weapons fits the soldier theme more than the hyper-mobile space ninja theme, but otherwise, an excellent idea. Reminds me of the special weapon slot from Planetside 2.

[DatDarkOne]

OP I understand what you are suggesting and I commend you on your efforts.  

Now, I myself have already resolved the issues with snipers and launchers.  For snipers it just simply a complimentary secondary weapon like Akstiletto Prime.  For the launchers just a bit of common sense and a complimentary secondary.  

With the exception of Sorties Only modes, it seems that a lot of players forget that we have more than just the primary weapon with us.  

This is only meant to assist you in fine tuning your idea.  :D

[KaeseSchnitte]

19 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

It would be great if the slots Op promises would just simply grant +200% buff to all stats.

That way you have the option to dedicate these weapons to true last resort/precision kill guns or choose to run normally with thrm without a bonus.

 

Sidenote: the new slots should only be avaible to snipers and launchers with self damage.

I don't thin giving all weapons a 200% damage boost would suffice, for one because they would still lose their one-shot capability fairly quickly and because some snipers and launchers are clearly better than others, which would lead to only the best launchers or snipers being used, which is not what I want to achieve.

That the fourth slot should only be aviable for weapons that can't compete with other weapon classes, which are in this case snipers and lauchers, is a given.

17 hours ago, DSpite said:

I think a "4th slot" is way overkill. I can't see DE doing that JUST so we an all carry a Sniper/Launcher. Actually, then, it will just make EVERYONE carry a "spare" Tonkor, I mean, I LITERALLY think that's what will happen, millions of people with Tonkors/Penta in the last slot because "why not".

One change to slots, that I still think DE won't do, would just allow Primary/Secondary to be whatever you like, so you could carry a Rifle and a Sniper, and STILL, highly probable people will carry say, a Soma, AND a Tonkor.

As long as there is "imbalances" to weapons damage/mechanics, most people will just carry the best kill combinations, not the "fun" combinations.

Weapons in games like COD4 attempt to balance on functionality, while we focus on "most killing power with least drawbacks". Our weapon selections are not equal, we tend to simply focus on DPS. You give players more flexibility, they will always just pick extra DPS.

Snipers? You could give me a Sniper rifle with infinite damage and infinite ammo, and still, by sitting up on a high spot, never missing a shot, on a Defense mission, the Pod will still be overrun and killed, because even at 1-2 kills per second average, the "swarm" and their AoE's will take it out, even just on Star Chart higher level missions.

The idea of this suggestion is to powercreep both snipers and launchers to the point that they don't differ in damage potential, but only in firing mechanics and visuals. As for snipers getting sidelined, I'd suggest to add more heavy units that don't get oneshot by or even specificly counter launchers, but are prone to sniper rounds.

[Fallen_Echo]

48 minutes ago, KaeseSchnitte said:

I don't thin giving all weapons a 200% damage boost would suffice, for one because they would still lose their one-shot capability fairly quickly and because some snipers and launchers are clearly better than others, which would lead to only the best launchers or snipers being used, which is not what I want to achieve.

That the fourth slot should only be aviable for weapons that can't compete with other weapon classes, which are in this case snipers and lauchers, is a given.

Not just damage boost. 200% bonus to all stats including damage, reload, firerate, accuracy etc...

But to be fair, if we dont add any bonus stats to them then people would just choode the best ones avaible if we add some atleast weaker ones with better feeling would have a chance.

[Gravitus123]

Not a bad idea like make an extra "heavy weapon" loadout slot.But honestly their biggest problem is that they dont perform well in combat.Snipers have high damage but they kill enemies very slowly and launchers dont hold up in late game but they still one shot you without a problem.

Add innate punchthrough to snipers and increase their firerate.

For launchers make shield gating a thing so you cant get 1 shot by a simple missclick or an enemy charging into your face and increase their damage so they can actually hold up longer

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

Not a bad idea.

At least like that they would have some use.

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 13.5.2017 at 8:05 PM, Gravitus123 said:

Not a bad idea like make an extra "heavy weapon" loadout slot.But honestly their biggest problem is that they dont perform well in combat.Snipers have high damage but they kill enemies very slowly and launchers dont hold up in late game but they still one shot you without a problem.

Add innate punchthrough to snipers and increase their firerate.

For launchers make shield gating a thing so you cant get 1 shot by a simple missclick or an enemy charging into your face and increase their damage so they can actually hold up longer

I envision snipers to be slow, heavy hitting weapons that kill almost everything with one shot but have a very limited ammo capacity and slow firerate, making them more like a panic button than something you'd want to spam. Same goes for launchers, just that they don't specialize on killing everything in one hit, but rather killing lots of grunts over a huge area.

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 05/13/2017 at 9:48 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Not just damage boost. 200% bonus to all stats including damage, reload, firerate, accuracy etc...

But to be fair, if we dont add any bonus stats to them then people would just choode the best ones avaible if we add some atleast weaker ones with better feeling would have a chance.

That is why my suggestion would be to power creep them until they only differ in mechanics, different scope sizes, magazine sizes, noise levels, reload speed and such.

[Mousarchy]

ya. snipers and launchers just dont fulfill the massive dmg they should. why is the sniper combo time related on a when a sniper is all about patience and precision  why are there so many riffles that can hit as hard as snipers? why do arrows have more force then a heavy caliber sniper? how come a hand-drawn string can puncthrough 12 people but this anti-tank shell cant go through a lancer shield? How come my beautiful explosives can murder me in an instant but can decimate crowds like true explosives should....all good questions that DE should explain for us.

and lets not forget. to further push out snipers from there position there is now a sniper pistol with a scope...and (if its correct stats) sybaris P is getting inate punch-through as well. further reducing how useful and meaningful the sniper class is.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Ordosan

[SempaiMint]

Snipers should get punch-through, ironsight zoom levels, no sway, no reduced accuracy when unzoomed, and shouldnt lose their combo counter when you miss. Increase crit chance so that they have at least like 75%+ crit chance since it kinda sucks when that one shot doesnt crit lol. why? Because using a weapon with limited mag, reload and fire rate should be enough, also because warframes are strong and most of these things shouldnt matter like a normal person who cant keep the gun from swaying or keep the gun steady when unzoomed. 

[PrVonTuckIII]

2 hours ago, Ordosan said:

why do arrows have more force then a heavy caliber sniper? how come a hand-drawn string can puncthrough 12 people but this anti-tank shell cant go through a lancer shield?

That would be because our bows are actually Railguns in disguise. Not even joking, the description for the Paris confirms it.

[Jade-Lion]

Sniper Rifles and Launchers both have issues, but they are fixed by slightly different things.

Sniper Rifles need different maps and mission types. Think the Ambulas Reborn Boss arena in how open it is, with sniper hides all over the place and a natural barrier area in between the Snipers and the mission objective. This makes the max zoom worth using, rewards accurate shooting and negates the main issue of getting swarmed while trying to take a shot. The requirement would be that the distance would have to be over 50m to prevent Mesa cheesing the mission or people using pistols as sniper rifles. For added skill requirements you add things like innocent NPCs or destructible items in the background of your target area to prevent people just spraying it down.

Launchers need new enemy types which are specifically vulnerable to them. In short yes you can kill an enemy soldier with an Assault Rifle or a Rocket Launcher, but if you want to take out a tank or APC then you better have a Rocket Launcher. Imagine if a Bursa's front shields didn't protect against damage from an Ogris. Making those invincible turrets in the Kuva Fortress destructible to Launchers would be another example. Alternatively you could also make a new mission type where launchers are the weapon of choice because you have to knock out a convoy of vehicles in an ambush.