Thanks for Watching Devstream #92!

[Mak_Gohae]

16 hours ago, armedpoop said:

Is this really your reasoning? Not only should you NOT dictate how others play the game, you also shouldnt tell others what they want. 

You are for a reason. I gave a reason. You now complain that a reason was given. .....

Why did you ask for a reason to be given, then?

Quote

Everyone that has the ability to rush thru missions does so already, so what difference does it make? 

Did you not read what i wrote?

You are for a reason then say dont give one and now you appear to not have read it?

People rush because there is no need to stop and pick up items because of Vac.

Without vac people would pick up items and slow down.
 

Quote

 

If we had everything appear in inventory once the enemy died, we would take afk farming to a whole new level, and everyone knows that DE doesnt want that. 

 

Isnt there an AFK system in the game that doesnt give you loot if you dont move?

Quote

Would you still oppose universal vacuum if it was an option?

i will oppose vac forever!

[Mak_Gohae]

Hey, DE, can we get a documentary on how a warframe is made?

Cause i want to know how you guys went from creating a frame with a priest for his looks with a powerset that revolves around getting heatshots.

Does he say, "vaya con dios", every time he kills some one with a head shot? Cause if he does then it makes sense. But if he doesnt..... why does a Priest frame have the powerset of a gunslinger?

I know this game is a shooter but come on.

[Loswaith]

10 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

Not the person you were replying to but I understand DE's reluctance to effectively scrap the physical loot mechanic. I think that universal vacuum is a mistake and DE know that it will really hurt the game eventually. They tried all the compromises and players still didn't want to engage with physical loot.

The step after that isn't universal vacuum it's removing physical loot altogether, because it has no purpose when players have to make no decision and/or take no action to collect it.

Remember, this game is based on DE making impediments to players "getting what we want" that is all this game is, physical loot is part of that, it's not supposed to be done for you.

To be honest, I know it wouldn't be popular, but DE's cleanest course of action is probably to scrap vacuum altogether. 

There is a reason players don't want to interact with the loot, they likely want to play as a space ninja/operative/whatever, not a janitor sweeping up all debris droped in their wake.

Having loot as a heavy driving factor to keep people playing is likely holding the game back from actually deriving a real purpose to play the game from the game-play point instead of a 'chase the loot' purpose.  Sure chasing loot isn't the primary reason for many, but it is a huge factor in the purpose or goal of any mission (as few have no other meaningful reason to be doing them).  How about having enjoyment of the game-play with some in setting purpose to actually be the reasons for doing missions.

It really doesn't need to be a game of either loot or enjoyable game-play/story purpose to missions (it can be both).  It can still take time to get things, without it being the ball and chain holding the players back from just playing for the enjoyment of it and getting things along the way.  Sure plenty of players seem to correlate asking for reasonable way to get stuff while just playing (rather than specific dedication to the single loot goal) with having stuff instantly, but very few actually ask for or want everything handed to them instantly without playing any of the game.

 

1 hour ago, Mak_Gohae said:

People rush because there is no need to stop and pick up items because of Vac.

This is incorrect.  Rushing has always been a factor in warframe even long before Vacuum (and carrier) was even an option.

Players typically rush because they don't care about the generic loot along the way at all. The only consideration is completing the mission at hand for that end reward as quick as they can (otherwise they would take time to kill or break everything along the way for that extra loot).  Only endless missions that cant really be rushed (though often still complete hurdles as fast as possible) are not excessively rushed, and often it is about the hurdle reward not the ancillary loot dropped all over.  Players that care about the ancillary loot often play with the loot boosting frames like Nekros and Hydroid in maps that you barely move around on anyway.

[SilentMobius]

1 hour ago, Loswaith said:

There is a reason players don't want to interact with the loot, they likely want to play as a space ninja/operative/whatever, not a janitor sweeping up all debris droped in their wake.

Having loot as a heavy driving factor to keep people playing is likely holding the game back from actually deriving a real purpose to play the game from the game-play point instead of a 'chase the loot' purpose.  Sure chasing loot isn't the primary reason for many, but it is a huge factor in the purpose or goal of any mission (as few have no other meaningful reason to be doing them).  How about having enjoyment of the game-play with some in setting purpose to actually be the reasons for doing missions.

It really doesn't need to be a game of either loot or enjoyable game-play/story purpose to missions (it can be both).  It can still take time to get things, without it being the ball and chain holding the players back from just playing for the enjoyment of it and getting things along the way.  Sure plenty of players seem to correlate asking for reasonable way to get stuff while just playing (rather than specific dedication to the single loot goal) with having stuff instantly, but very few actually ask for or want everything handed to them instantly without playing any of the game.

Maybe you're right and that virtually no players want to engage with the loot mechanic, and maybe there is nothing that DE can do to make that interesting (Though I personally don't agree)

But

Universal vacuum is not the solution to that. Physical loot has a notable impact on network traffic, rendering and CPU usage. If players don't care for physical loot they don't need vacuum, they need a removal of physical loot. Now if DE don't want to do that they that means they still want a game where players have to engage with a physical loot mechanic, which means no universal vacuum.

So either way it's a bad idea.

The thing that annoys me is the people who just can't see what DE have been trying to do with the various compromises they've suggested and tried, because they are the worst people to listen to, as their basis of argument is completely ignorant of things that DE have to, should be and have been considering.

Edited May 14, 2017 by SilentMobius

[Loswaith]

1 hour ago, SilentMobius said:

Maybe you're right and that virtually no players want to engage with the loot mechanic, and maybe there is nothing that DE can do to make that interesting (Though I personally don't agree)

There isn't any way to make running over the top of an object (or hoping from object to object) to gather it interesting.  
Now things like the excavators (and to a lesser extent, extractors) do make the gaining of loot actually interesting by incorporating it into the actual game-play (or setting).  
While they can make it interesting to gain loot, having it drop from enemies for you to run over isn't going to ever be interesting, especially for a game where movement is about moving at reasonably fast speeds and slaughtering waves of enemies in the process.  Breaking that flow actually is counter to the game-play.

 

1 hour ago, SilentMobius said:

Universal vacuum is not the solution to that. Physical loot has a notable impact on network traffic, rendering and CPU usage. If players don't care for physical loot they don't need vacuum, they need a removal of physical loot. Now if DE don't want to do that they that means they still want a game where players have to engage with a physical loot mechanic, which means no universal vacuum.

We already have a basis for a medium that now jus takes away options for a more cumbersome way of dealing with things.  Seems like a universal vacuum would still keep loot somewhat important to the game, while it wouldn't make it either use a sentinel or be a janitor.

How is universal vacuum (or at least the equivalent pickup range) not a solution to that aspect?  It is not like it gives you a pickup range equal to the affinity sharing range it is only a small area in the scheme of AoE in warframe.  Due of the lower range it still means you have to move around to get all the loot (the loot pick-up/interaction part), you just don't have to literally run directly over the top of loot and thus it doesn't break the game-play flow that the game is known for (and why it is played).

This then means players have to still have some interaction with the loot mechanic but without breaking the game-play flow (the major point to be playing the game, as you don't need loot if your not playing the game).

If players really want to walk over every pick-up, this could even be made an option in the UI to turn off (or even a slider for the pick-up distance), just like some players like Bloom and others don't, or some like a larger field of view, or how different players like different colours or cosmetics for weapons and frames.

If DE wanted players to actually need to walk over loot they never would have added Vacuum in the first place.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Loswaith

[KnightmareS24]

awesome!

[V45H]

On 5/12/2017 at 9:12 PM, armedpoop said:

really? This is your best excuse? Please tell me you can do better. This is where it being an option would come in handy for people like you. Would you still be against it as an option?

Why don't we just remove drops all together with and have it so when an enemy dies you automatically get stuff oh wait because that's stupid.

[(XBOX)BlackDragon1032]

I know this is a stupid question but when can we be expecting this Holy man aka Harrow ? This or next month?

[Celas_]

Remove Vacuum and give all Warframe a Magnetic Effect which sucks all items to you

[Belqo]

6 hours ago, Odins_Sohn_MSTK said:

Remove Vacuum and give all Warframe a Magnetic Effect which sucks all items to you

Or just give companions (Kubrows / Kavats / Helmiths) Vacuum mod too.. all pets are wearing collars so I see no reason to not give em ability to use vacuum too..

 

Devs said in previous devstream that 95% of players are using Vacuum.. I really can't see a single reason why companions can't collect loot too.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Belqo

[Slander630]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:55 PM, TheOlright said:

Honestly, im kind of disappointed of Harrow. I thought he would be more dark themed, as he intended to be on a first view. I mean, more like Nekros, Inaros or Nidus at least. I thought "sacrificing himself for his team" would be more like some dark ritual, not like "use your shield to gain invulnerability". But, in result, chains, buffs, headshots - I dont know why is he priest-themed that way. Honestly, he could be more unprisoned-themed, but we already got valkyr

Very much this, I understood the theme for this warframe was "Priest" not this "Headshot", I guess the plus side is Harrow will have lots of memes dedicated to him(?)

[armedpoop]

12 hours ago, V45H said:

Why don't we just remove drops all together with and have it so when an enemy dies you automatically get stuff oh wait because that's stupid.

I agree, that wouldnt do much but make afk farming a real thing. Thats why people want universal vacuum instead. Its the most viable to thing to be asking for, everyone knows they wont just do away with drops all together, so unviersal vac is the next best.

[Mak_Gohae]

21 hours ago, Loswaith said:

This is incorrect.  Rushing has always been a factor in warframe even long before Vacuum (and carrier) was even an option.

Players typically rush because they don't care about the generic loot along the way at all. The only consideration is completing the mission at hand for that end reward as quick as they can (otherwise they would take time to kill or break everything along the way for that extra loot).  Only endless missions that cant really be rushed (though often still complete hurdles as fast as possible) are not excessively rushed, and often it is about the hurdle reward not the ancillary loot dropped all over.  Players that care about the ancillary loot often play with the loot boosting frames like Nekros and Hydroid in maps that you barely move around on anyway.

Rushing only came from the Dzorens that no everyone used. And they were mostly for Boss missions because back in the day they were the only places that had a better chance at dropping rare mats and, of course, warframe parts.

Running forward is not rushing.

After the DZ DE gave all weapons a launching ability but they gave different weapons different grades of launching. So that didnt solve people being left behind.

And that was the excuse for bullet twirling. Now EVERYONE could move fast without the need of equipping a specific weapon.

By this time bosses were not the only place rare mats drop and drops were increased by a tremendous amount . And the very reason people say they want vac is because they do not want to run around picking up stuff they just want to fly by.

 

[Rhekemi]

On 5/12/2017 at 2:55 PM, TheOlright said:

Honestly, im kind of disappointed of Harrow. I thought he would be more dark themed, as he intended to be on a first view. I mean, more like Nekros, Inaros or Nidus at least. I thought "sacrificing himself for his team" would be more like some dark ritual, not like "use your shield to gain invulnerability". But, in result, chains, buffs, headshots - I dont know why is he priest-themed that way. Honestly, he could be more unprisoned-themed, but we already got valkyr

 

 

 

On 5/13/2017 at 8:07 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

Hey, DE, can we get a documentary on how a warframe is made?

Cause i want to know how you guys went from creating a frame with a priest for his looks with a powerset that revolves around getting heatshots.

Does he say, "vaya con dios", every time he kills some one with a head shot? Cause if he does then it makes sense. But if he doesnt..... why does a Priest frame have the powerset of a gunslinger?

I know this game is a shooter but come on.

 

 

Having read the overview, I cannot say that I see a strong link between his theme and his abilities. Feels like he might as well have been another theme entirely. But as noted, at least his abilities seem cool/effective and all have synergy.

Spoiler

I've been out of touch with the last 4 or 5 (Wukong, Nezha, Atlas, Nidus, Titania, I think) 'frames released, though, so it's typically hard for me to get pumped about new 'frames when I'm still working my casual self through improving my old ones and favorites. Well, technically, the last "new" 'frame I actually love is Ivara. Of the last batch, Atlas and Wukong seem the most exciting, but I've only actually built Wukong and Nezha. Casual for life.

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Rhekemi

[Celas_]

13 hours ago, Belqo said:

Or just give companions (Kubrows / Kavats / Helmiths) Vacuum mod too.. all pets are wearing collars so I see no reason to not give em ability to use vacuum too..

 

Devs said in previous devstream that 95% of players are using Vacuum.. I really can't see a single reason why companions can't collect loot too.

But i wont waste a another Slot on the companions, maybe all of them has Vacuum as passive skill

 

8 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

By this time bosses were not the only place rare mats drop and drops were increased by a tremendous amount . And the very reason people say they want vac is because they do not want to run around picking up stuff they just want to fly by.

 

And what is bad about fly by? Not everyone want to collect piece by piece, if you wont vacuum dont use it easy,

Edited May 15, 2017 by Odins_Sohn_MSTK

[SilentMobius]

On 2017-5-14 at 5:53 AM, Loswaith said:

There isn't any way to make running over the top of an object (or hoping from object to object) to gather it interesting.  

...and yet there are many many games with physical loot that require you to do just that. Maybe they're all wrong, or maybe you are.

Who knows.

On 2017-5-14 at 5:53 AM, Loswaith said:

How is universal vacuum (or at least the equivalent pickup range) not a solution to that aspect?  It is not like it gives you a pickup range equal to the affinity sharing range it is only a small area in the scheme of AoE in warframe.

That the players kept pushing to be larger and larger, remember that DE already offered a small universal vacuum range and "the players" already said no.

On 2017-5-14 at 5:53 AM, Loswaith said:

If DE wanted players to actually need to walk over loot they never would have added Vacuum in the first place.

They wanted people to be able to sacrifice something (companion utility) for that ability, they didn't want it to be overwhelmingly selected.

[boattin1316]

Miss rebecca im sorry..............i will not do it again im sorry................................................just trust me.............im sorry................[........................................very scared..................] im scared i will not do it again im sorry! ;_; im sorry what i done IM SORRY! T-T IM ACCEPT IT! 

WHAT HAVE I DONE IM SORRY! im  scared T-T i will not ask people for account anymore im sorry T-T I PROMISE!

Edited May 15, 2017 by boattin1316

[(XBOX)poodlebingo 65]

27 minutes ago, boattin1316 said:

Miss rebecca im sorry..............i will not do it again im sorry................................................just trust me.............im sorry................[........................................very scared..................] im scared i will not do it again im sorry! ;_; im sorry what i done IM SORRY! T-T IM ACCEPT IT! 

WHAT HAVE I DONE IM SORRY! im  scared T-T i will not ask people for account anymore im sorry T-T

Gone barking!

[boattin1316]

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)poodlebingo 65 said:

Gone barking!

im not aaron.jay the one who asking people account around im not aaron.jay

Edited May 15, 2017 by boattin1316

[boattin1316]

40 minutes ago, boattin1316 said:

im not aaron.jay the one who asking people account around im not aaron.jay

i accept what have i done in warframe i accept it but i will not do it again  because its a crime and its sin what i done in my inbox in-game i read it all i will not do it again if i do it again i will get permantly lose ability to chat, i will never do it again its my sins that i must face myself and walk forward and never do it again

Edited May 15, 2017 by boattin1316

[armedpoop]

6 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

...and yet there are many many games with physical loot that require you to do just that. Maybe they're all wrong, or maybe you are.

Who knows.

That the players kept pushing to be larger and larger, remember that DE already offered a small universal vacuum range and "the players" already said no.

They wanted people to be able to sacrifice something (companion utility) for that ability, they didn't want it to be overwhelmingly selected.

"Many games with physical loot that require just tha.t Maybe they're all wrong, or maybe you are." 

Name one game that allows you to move as fast as you do in warframe and has physical loot that requires you to walk directly over it, ill wait. (you can stop with that passive aggressiveness) 

 

"remember that DE already offered a small universal vacuum range and "the players" already said no" 

No, what DE did was give a nerfed vacuum to all sentinels that made it quite pointless to use. The players dont want nerfed universal vacuum. 

 

I really dont understand how you can still oppose this after Loswaith explained it as well as they did. Loot drops break the flow of the game without vacuum. Once you know how to move fast and rush in warframe, you are not going to want to walk over each individual drop in warframe. 

[Unus]

On 5/13/2017 at 9:07 PM, Mak_Gohae said:

Hey, DE, can we get a documentary on how a warframe is made?

Cause i want to know how you guys went from creating a frame with a priest for his looks with a powerset that revolves around getting heatshots.

Does he say, "vaya con dios", every time he kills some one with a head shot? Cause if he does then it makes sense. But if he doesnt..... why does a Priest frame have the powerset of a gunslinger?

I know this game is a shooter but come on.

If I have to hazard a guess, the first thing that I thought of when seeing his gameplay was the ancient art of trepannation. Ripping holes in the skull to let the evil spirits out and keeping the bone to ward them off for good. 

Its a religious practice we've had as a species since the animist shamans of the Cro-Mags.

[boattin1316]

On 13/5/2560 at 2:12 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Overview & Podcast to follow!

Platinum winners: GWII, Blahrgamarhga, MaestroGodV, and Uknowtheguy.
Banshee Prime Access Pack winner:  Blackrrsta

Miss rebecca THANK YOU T-T I WILL NOT DO BAD THINGS AGAIN! I PROMISE I WILL NEVER FORGET THIS! FOREVER! T-T may you have happiest on your life! THANK YOU! i will watch your game and update forever! T-T thank you! And support what i have! Thx you! T-T

Edited May 16, 2017 by boattin1316

[MUTAN_29]

On 2017-5-12 at 9:12 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Overview & Podcast to follow!

Platinum winners: GWII, Blahrgamarhga, MaestroGodV, and Uknowtheguy.
Banshee Prime Access Pack winner:  Blackrrsta