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Rework the Rework(ASH)


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So obviously people don't really like the Ash Prime Rework. Credit to Malla_ (commenter on a Mogamu video (" Warframe: Ash Revisited & Koga Skin ")

-shuriken works like how bladestorm is now (i believe waht he means by this is when you mark the guys in front of you and activate the ability, shurikens are thrown at all of the marked targets)

-teleport to any destination (within a short distance) (MY WORD: instead of at an enemy, maybe you can teleport to like a ledge above them. maybe you could press it to see a marker to where you would teleport, and activating it again would teleport you to where your marker is. i think thats what he means, somewhat)

-smoke screen needed a duration buff

- Bladestrom should work how it was before the rework but instead of you preforming the kills you send out upto 3 clones and they do the killing. (the mobs would also not be invincible) my words again: SO in this case its like mirage ability, in the sense that they would be clones of your loadout, but also like nekros's in the case that they are also their own npc(sort of)

this fixes the interactivity problems people had with bladstorm, the making mobs immune problem, this makes teleport and smoke screen actually worth using and it also makes the shuiriken worth using.

 

(I liked this and thought it was worth putting on the GD)

Edited by LordZonEscquire
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Just now, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

I've seen people always recommend Bladestorm have the clones kill for you. But, I really hate that idea because it would be boring and that also requires no skill.

Nekros is the same in the sens of having the NPC's kill for you.

busted. maybe

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

They don't really kill like they used to. Plus, they're used for tanking more than killing. Ash is meant to kill. That's his purpose.

Well i mean like i said its not my idea. if it was mine, bladestorm would be the same pre-rework but maybe a tad slower because I mained Ash and even I didnt like how fast and OP it was a lot of the time. it could get nauseating :/

Edited by LordZonEscquire
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7 minutes ago, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

I've seen people always recommend Bladestorm have the clones kill for you. But, I really hate that idea because it would be boring and that also requires no skill.

You mean boring and requires no skill like the ability we have now?

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I dont main Ash but imo the problem with his bladestorm is how it abruptly changes your pace as the player. 1 moment you're charging with guns ablaze, next second you just sit there to watch the show.

Why not let ash always perform his exalted blade finisher on teleport (if target is enemy obviously and maybe keep the invulnerability), but keep the PoV the same as teleport (no cut scene shenanigans), and let us move the camera during the finisher animation so we can queue up / mark another target for teleport kill. 

That will basically fulfill the role of "manual bladestorm" which frees up a skill slot for something else. Maybe something cool like a shadow form, toggle ability enhance every other skill for extra energy cost. The enhancement could be something cool from community suggestion like the mark and shuriken thingies.

But then again that would remove the current CL teleport cheese so people might not like the idea.

Constructive criticism is welcome.

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1 minute ago, Lucavee said:

I dont main Ash but imo the problem with his bladestorm is how it abruptly changes your pace as the player. 1 moment you're charging with guns ablaze, next second you just sit there to watch the show.

Why not let ash always perform his exalted blade finisher on teleport (if target is enemy obviously and maybe keep the invulnerability), but keep the PoV the same as teleport (no cut scene shenanigans), and let us move the camera during the finisher animation so we can queue up / mark another target for teleport kill. 

That will basically fulfill the role of "manual bladestorm" which frees up a skill slot for something else. Maybe something cool like a shadow form, toggle ability enhance every other skill for extra energy cost. The enhancement could be something cool from community suggestion like the mark and shuriken thingies.

But then again that would remove the current CL teleport cheese so people might not like the idea.

Constructive criticism is welcome.

Yeah, that pretty much exactly is his augmented teleport skill. What would be the point?

Personally, I feel that the third ability should move to the fourth with its current augment integrated and replaced, and the now-empty third skill get replaced with something else. It's pretty easy to spam cast teleport as it stands, but isn't a nuke slide show that is nauseating to sit through for people. To compensate for number of targets lost it could either couple with shiruken to work as the mark mechanic and send out clones to the other marked targets, or be cheeper to cast over all. Just my 2 cents. *shrug*

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I guess im one of the minority that loves the rework as it is currently. The amount of random bladestorm spam is gone in missions now, and I can actually enjoy playing ash again without feeling guilty like im 13yrs old and got caught with a dirty mag and a tube sock.

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49 minutes ago, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

I've seen people always recommend Bladestorm have the clones kill for you. But, I really hate that idea because it would be boring and that also requires no skill.

Neither does what he's currently doing.

It still requires "no skill" and is tedious af that's why no one basically runs Ash anymore. Moreover, there's no reason to use bladestorm over fatal teleport so idk why bladestorm is still even a thing.

Edited by -Temp0-
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53 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

I guess im one of the minority that loves the rework as it is currently. The amount of random bladestorm spam is gone in missions now, and I can actually enjoy playing ash again without feeling guilty like im 13yrs old and got caught with a dirty mag and a tube sock.

Nah, I'm with you too. Love Ash just the way he is and use him quite often. He is an assassin, so his kit functions perfectly. Run around using first 3 abilities, focusing on larger targets, then break out his ult if the room gets too crowded.

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38 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

It still requires "no skill" and is tedious af that's why no one basically runs Ash anymore.

So what you are saying is... bladestorm is the only reason people played Ash, and since its not spammable anymore, people stopped playing him?

Id say mission accomplished.

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33 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

So what you are saying is... bladestorm is the only reason people played Ash, and since its not spammable anymore, people stopped playing him?

Id say mission accomplished.

Like anyone cares if he's playable or not in a game where you have 20+ of them with new ones being released every 3 months. You nerf one frame, people stop playing it and move to the next or just use weapons. Half dozen of other farmes is in his place. It's not like Ash was the easiest to get - back in the days both prime and normal, most versality or most powerful warframe. He had bladestorm going for him and nothing else, now he has fatal teleport going for him and nothing else. Same thing as saying "they changed nova's 4 so it no longer slows down or speed up enemies/or made it wonky as hell - time to celebrate because now people will stop spamming 4". Makes sense. Now people spam fatal teleport. Profit? Yeah such profit much wow.

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1 hour ago, -Temp0- said:

Neither does what he's currently doing.

It still requires "no skill" and is tedious af that's why no one basically runs Ash anymore. Moreover, there's no reason to use bladestorm over fatal teleport so idk why bladestorm is still even a thing.

Since when does casting an ability take skill. Most of the "top tier" frames mostly just cast an ability and sit in invulnerability. Also fatal teleport is a single target nuke so it does more damage, but bladestorm can easily deal 10,000+finisher damage with slash proc that can deal 4000+ slash damage for 9 seconds with a decent build since it scales with the combo multiplier, that's enough damage to oneshot any level 100 enemy that isn't a heavy unit and still level 100+ corrupted heavy gunners/bombards die in like 5 seconds. Imo, ash is the most well round/balanced frame in the game, which is why no plays him. Why use a frame that takes effort to build and use effectively when I could use loki/ivara/Octavia and sit in invisibility, or Nova who's 4 turns the mission into easy mode with a press of a button.

Edited by (XB1)CFE Angry
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2 hours ago, LordZonEscquire said:

So obviously people don't really like the Ash Prime Rework. Credit to Malla_ (commenter on a Mogamu video (" Warframe: Ash Revisited & Koga Skin ")

-shuriken works like how bladestorm is now (i believe waht he means by this is when you mark the guys in front of you and activate the ability, shurikens are thrown at all of the marked targets)

-teleport to any destination (within a short distance) (MY WORD: instead of at an enemy, maybe you can teleport to like a ledge above them. maybe you could press it to see a marker to where you would teleport, and activating it again would teleport you to where your marker is. i think thats what he means, somewhat)

-smoke screen needed a duration buff

- Bladestrom should work how it was before the rework but instead of you preforming the kills you send out upto 3 clones and they do the killing. (the mobs would also not be invincible) my words again: SO in this case its like mirage ability, in the sense that they would be clones of your loadout, but also like nekros's in the case that they are also their own npc(sort of)

this fixes the interactivity problems people had with bladstorm, the making mobs immune problem, this makes teleport and smoke screen actually worth using and it also makes the shuiriken worth using.

 

(I liked this and thought it was worth putting on the GD)

The haters got the nerf they wanted so unless Ash falls off to the bottom of the frame used list there not going to go back to it,

 

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27 minutes ago, Kyronz said:

Ash just needs a new 4th ability.   Call it something different, just make it useful even if you are grouping.

If you could have a new 4th on Ash, what would you have it do? Seriously curious...

As someone who uses Ash frequently and likes his kit as is, I just want to understand what people expect from Ash's ultimate if they are currently not happy with it.

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1 hour ago, Jobistober said:

If you could have a new 4th on Ash, what would you have it do? Seriously curious...

As someone who uses Ash frequently and likes his kit as is, I just want to understand what people expect from Ash's ultimate if they are currently not happy with it.

Maybe a mass stun or mob teleport  with a debuff, some sort of CC since DE does not want ash as a group DPS frame.

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Personally, I'm ok with his current 4th, but I'd still like to see a rework. My idea is to change it from a kill everything animation to a channeled weapon it, like some of the other frames. I'm thinking it could be a glaive (giant shurriken) with it's own unique stance, and maybe a secondary fire mechanic where he throws exploding kunai (like a spira with explosive tags). The glaive would still be thrown with charge attack. What do you guys think?

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11 hours ago, LordZonEscquire said:

Nekros is the same in the sens of having the NPC's kill for you.

busted. maybe

Nekros is a pet class... Comparing a pet class to a straight DD class is like comparing a rockslide to an arrow.

Having the clones do all the killing for you would be boring and require no skill because it would require none of the utility management required for most pet classes. 

They could have resolved alot of the complaints by either adding a cooldown, opening the targeting back up, reducing the range or, ideally, porting the targeted enemies off the map instead.

Ash needed the pain-points with Bladestorm addressed...DE addressed them by making him unwieldy for spammers to play. 

Mission Kinda Accomplished. 

My only issues with this new version of Ash is that I would prefer that Smokescreen's timer be halted while in Bladestorm mode and that Shuriken should be a list of different skills as opposed to just the one.

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11 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

. Imo, ash is the most well round/balanced frame in the game, which is why no plays him. Why use a frame that takes effort to build and use effectively when I could use loki/ivara/Octavia and sit in invisibility, or Nova who's 4 turns the mission into easy mode with a press of a button.

Sure, because when a Frame's ultimate top potential required 2250 energy while the maximum with Primed Flow is 405 and 50 seconds of uninteractive cutscene it's totally balanced.

The only real solution to Ash is:

-Marking becoming Ash's second passive, free of cost and activating whenever you hold RMB.

-Shuriken tracking made optional, likely as a dual mode abilitiy

-Smoke Screen made an actual Smoke Screen with effects on the battlefield

-Teleport merged with current Bladestorm as a 'Teleport to location' / 'Killing Spree' dual mode ability

-Blade Storm turned into a Duration-based Stance Ultimate, in which Ash Finishers can kill multiple targets (either by multikill Finisher animation or clone assistance) without being a mindless E or Slide spam ability like Exalted Blade (by essentially making the slide attack and basic E spam worthless and making the other combos the powerful ones)

 

It solves all the problems, it's interactive, isn't P4TW, it can be easily balanced for conclave. It simply has everything.

 

Edited by Nazrethim
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