The Second Stream Podcast 14 - Harrow Abilities, New Augments, and more! ft. [DE]Pablo

[Darkvramp]

2 hours ago, ArcusVeles said:

Y'all just had to mention Vacuum again, just to say your stance is unchanged.  Thanks for that.  :|

it is surprising they think the current vacuum is any good. take borderlands for example if you have played all the games then you know the annoyance of the first game in having to manually accept all the money and ammo off the ground vs the 2nd and the presequal vacuuming all that up.

[LightningsVengance]

I'm most excited for Nidus augment. Nidus and Inaros are my favorite frames.

[Evanescent]

8 hours ago, Xekrin said:

I feel like a frame that benefits quite strongly from strong, carefully aimed headshots would get less use out of a fire rate buff than something that could have buffed or somehow assisted in performing said headshots.  Overall, more damage = good and healing is great for the whole team of course, but synergy with rest of kit?  Doesn't sound like it.

Reload speed is nice but eh... its like Chroma's lame attempt at making toxin build useful all over again? Maybe?

It would depend on the weapon's recoil, reload and firerate.

For example, the dex sybaris has low recoil, medium reload and high fire-rate, so more fire-rate and less reload time means you get more shots off on the heads consistently. Same is true for the Hemaa, burston and braton prime, latron prime, euphona prime, etc.

[Valiant]

Not excited for Harrow anymore.

Was happy by his appearance but his abilities are simply lackluster and too headshot oriented and despite whatever someone says, at this moment in time, they aren't really well suited for our current gameplay and for coop matches. Feels... Gimmicky.

Need a lot more to it. Did it well with Nidus and Octavia. Very unique and different. This one? Feels slightly rushed and not very innovative. Wasted potential of a male frame to me at the moment irrespective of not being able to play him myself.

This is the first time ever I've seen a preview of a frame and been worried and disappointed by their abilities. Usually I always find something decent in a frame even if it's not my sort of frame or thing when I see a preview. Due to this change in attitude it tells me something is wrong and my feeling might well be right.

Eagerly awaiting a rework in a year, but hopefully much sooner.

Also, hope we get a true armour/shield 2.0 too then apart from gating, as shields don't stand for much later on into the game.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Naith

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Not so excited for Harrow, too many perks connect to performing headshots in a horde game + fast skirmish it's it's still feels to slow i don't see me pulling of a chain of headshots or worse headshot kills with a pistol at least...mine is a perspective coming from a long endurance missions players or anything above sortie 3 lvl anyway so it's not a consistent feature for me.

His 3 is already bad in my book just because you have to stand still....at certain lvl standing still is insta death...of course comboed wit his 4 is the way to go but again it's forcing a co dependance rather than a synergy..

The shield doube overshield passinve thing also is redundant,and useless to me, shield aren't sh_it until something is done about them and as long as they can be bypassed by toxin & slash procs i'll take health+armor over them anytime. they'll be good for the starchart and that is it. can't bother with shields unless it's a frame that gives flat damage reduction ( *cough* shatter shield / blessing *cough* ), in that case the dmg applied to shield is reduced too so they can be more useful but that's it.

His 1st is super and probably it'll be his one trick just like Inaros 1st uber spam to stunlock in place enemies. His 2 could be interesting as well.

I'm exited to see some Nidus Augments, but seeing how the majority of augments are meh i'm not holding my breath.

There's  many already present that needs a total rework ( like ASH Rising Storm which is obsolete and useless since you can have body count on your melee and / or drifting contact together eventually to boost the combo duration on his 4th ) etc etc

I'll definitely play harrow just like i did with octavia, ( 1 week till the hype goes down ), if something changes between now and the release date that will make me play harrow on a regular basis good, if it's not the case, not a prob it's still MR exp.

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by arm4geddon-117

[Foefaller]

1. Somewhere between very and somewhat excited for Harrow. I've played enough Dex Sybaris to know headshots aren't the hardest thing to pull off in most cases, so a frame that buffs allies with them has piqued my interest. Being all about shields with his first two abilities does put a small damper on that though, at least until I see how shield gating goes.

2. The first, obviously. CC are always nice, though temporary invuln with bonus headshot multiplier afterwards sounds pretty sweet.

3. Mag, honestly. Though it has a lot to do with what I hope it might be than anything else; A Magnetize that I can pop on demand is what I want. That would have her bumping a couple of frames off my go-to list when it comes to sortie missions.

4. New stuff

5. Again, headshots aren't that big of a deal some make it out to be if you want to do them, so I like it. However, scoped headshots are a slightly different issue, since it's harder to pull off on the fly. If I use that pistol a lot, it probably won't be with Harrow.

[trunks013]

Hi @[DE]Taylor  why can't we download it like the others ?

 

[[DE]Taylor]

1 hour ago, trunks013 said:

Hi @[DE]Taylor  why can't we download it like the others ?

 

Because I forgot to check the box. 

Spoiler

Should be fixed now, thanks for the heads up!

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

Those chains are awesome in look and design!

 

[trunks013]

14 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Because I forgot to check the box. 

  Hide contents

Should be fixed now, thanks for the heads up!

Thanks Taylor you rock ^.^ 

[(PSN)magonero96]

Why harrow's skills are focused on headshots instead of chieric stuff like buff team members or do miracles?

BTW chains are too cool :D

Edited May 17, 2017 by (PS4)magonero96

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

does this mean that eb aug, effigy aug, magnetize aug and shield aug are on the way?

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

 

a few questions about harrows abilities and a suggestion:

ability 1:

does it require that you head shot to get shields?

does it go in a straight line like nidus's 1?

could you make it to where we get overshields on headshot after our shields are full?

ability 2:

are overshields taken into consideration?

do i i need to do headshots, headshot kills, hit enemies or just kill enemies to get the heal?

what percentage is at base and is it effected by strength?

how will beam weapons like the amprex work with this ability?

ability 3:

how long is the base animation?

am i stuck in place while casting?

is the time it takes to fully charge effected by duration mods, cast speed mods or no mods?

       suggestion- every 5 headshot kills adds to the range of the ability for the duration of its activation

                        - make it recastable so we dont need to wait in place for 5 seconds and can instead choose to refresh the ability duration where it is

ability 4:

does duration effect the invulnerability timer?

if i were to increase strength would that effect how much damage is needed to give me more or less damage bonuses? 

 

 

a general suggestion for his kit:

make it to where it does -25% effectiveness for the shield, heal, and energy buffs but does +25% effectiveness on head shots

[Hixlysss]

His power 3 and 4, specifically his power 3, need to provide some kind of benefit beyond completely relying on headshots. Power 4 is...semi okay because you can just go invulnerable for X duration and then get bonus crit chance on headshots. It could provide half the bonus for bodyshots, so if I get 200% crit chance on headshots, I'd get 100% for bodyshots. And I feel like he should have a special animation while in this state, he can't do damage or anything but he could pull out that Thurible thing of his and do some chanting while pulling aggro while in this state.

Power 3 could provide some kind of aoe buff to teammates and debuff to enemies, beyond just "Get headshots to get energy!" cause it's kinda...just too completely focused on getting headshots for the power to do anything.

And finally, an addition to his passive, considering the chat of "We donno where the heads are on rattels and other things!" He should highlight heads, either all the time or when aiming it highlights the heads of enemies he is looking at, I would prefer the former where their heads are all highlighted in a radius, possibly affinity range, of him.

[Shadow8600]

I need an uncut version of this. :(

[Chroia]

1. Now that Harrow’s (WIP) abilities have been revealed, how excited are you for his release?

> Somewhat excited

New toy/toolbox, new theme, new aesthetics.

That said, we need calibration. What kind of enemy levels are you expecting players to face with him?
I'll touch on why this is important.

 

2. What part of Harrow’s (WIP) kit is the most enticing to you?

> His 1

First off: This is synergy.
It's a line mez. This works.
Add in the vulnerability from his 2, the headshot handicap for his 3 and 4, and it's a linchpin of his kit.

Second: Calibration.
Outside the star chart, I don't see myself using his 2 against unmezzed enemies - can't afford the vulnerability. Enter his 1.
As I recall, Rebecca's demo doesn't make it clear whether or not he can move while charging his 3. (And even if he can move, it's not as effective as parkour at reducing enemy accuracy).
As such, outside the star chart, I don't see myself using his 3 near unmezzed enemies - can't afford the vulnerability. Enter his 1. We seeing a theme?

His 4, granted, I'll probably use often, with as much duration as possible (to reduce the risk of needing to recharge often).

Now, about headshots, scopes, etc.

Seasoned Conclave players notwithstanding, I suspect that most players can't reliably headshot while leapdodgerolling, let alone while leapdodgerolling well.
(Disclaimer: I'm basing this on myself. I think I'm around average.)

Add in how Scoping messes up your normal parkour speed, the forced zoom - when only a subset of a subset of tiles have the scope to allow/enable zoom past x3, the different mouse-track speed (which, granted, is customizable via the options).

Between that, and every single scope-capable weapon to date (to wit: snipers) gained scope sway, ludicrously poor hipfire accuracy, and transition time between scoped and unscoped accuracy (i.e. no quickscoping)...

I'm sure some people will disagree with me, but I find snipers pretty unusable outside specific parameters. (Basically: A static mission-type, an invisible frame, or Excavation.)

 

3. What Warframe’s Augment are you excited most for next?

> Other

I think that the entire augment system needs to be reevaluated.
With a handful of exceptions, opportunity cost means that the vast majority never see use - they're just not worth the mod slot.

So if the setup is: 'There will be augments for these 4 frames. You have no information about what the augments will do, nor whether they'll be viable/worth the opportunity cost.
Then the question really is: 'Which of the candidate frames/abilities do you like most?'

 

4. With the expansion of the Grineer faction, what new features are you looking for in your foes?

> Other

"Alternate damage types" are completely opaque.
Damage 2.0 modifiers are completely invisible/under the hood.
Beyond that, which currently-unused status procs actually affect players?
CC procs don't affect players. Gas boils down to toxin. Corrosive is temporary.
I'm sure a brand new source of Mag procs will be greeted with joy, though.

"New mechanics" is way too vague for me to choose.
Rolling out Eximus Strongpoints* is 'new mechanics'.
So is rolling out breakable armor, or actual weakpoints.
So is a 'On death, spawn 2 copies' "mitosing" enemy.
Or a damage reflector enemy.
Etc etc.

"Different enemy designs" is also too unclear.
Do you mean visually? i.e. another reskin? (Vanilla, Frontier, Arid, Drekhar, Kuva, Nightwatch)
Do you mean from a design philosophy perspective? Combat doctrine? something else entirely?

 

* As per my Devstream question-list:
Weak points is a misnomer. You hit a thing somewhere, and something happens. You hit a weak point and something catastrophic happens.
Compare and contrast with a strongpoint (fortification) - until you deal with it, you can't advance, a.k.a. nothing happens.
Look at Ambulas. Ambulas has weak points.
Compare and contrast with the DC challenge Lv120 Juggernaut.

 

5. What is your opinion on the proposed headshot benefits from the coming scoped secondary weapon?

> Other

See the end of my answer re: #2.
The benefit of a scope, is greater resolution and accuracy at greater range.
Tying additional stat buffs to it (and potentially balancing the base stats to account for them) makes players (i.e. me, but I've heard the same from others I've spoken with) feel forced to use scopes, even outside the handful of situations where using them fits.

Compound with the horrible spread on hipfire, and the game-wide terrible weapon-swap speed, you're just making scope-use even more mandatory - regardless of whether or not it's beneficial.

So, in abstract, scopes are a good thing, especially since variable zoom was added - when using the scopes is optional, to use when the higher magnification benefits you.
In practice, am I looking forward to yet another weapon that can't hit a thin Grineer with hipfire from past ~9 meters because it comes with a scope? No, I'm really really not.

=====

The high level enemy Youtuber's probably LifeOf Rio.

[TANTO_17]

@Chroia

Nice post. I agree 100% with your comments about the new warframe. His 2 may be more beneficial to team synergies that you give it credit. You know your stuff.

Your comments about damage 2.0 resonate with me. In my experience understanding status is what separates long run players from people who have trouble in sorties. In other words this is in my opinion the biggest skill/knowledge gap in warframe. In terms of new enemies inflicting damage to the player, honestly it wont matter since as soon as you get hit you will die anyways (obviously bias in my perspective since I mostly like long runs). That being said I do like having new things to dodge, so I do look forward to enemies that require skill to avoid and wont just have me jumping and rolling in the air to produce accuracy debuffs.

I think scopes and snipers need to be revisited in warframe yet again. Of all the guns in Warframe, none act like a ninja's gun apart from the sniper and the bow. It is sad that they are currently completely outclassed by launcher weapons, especial given that snipers require more skill to use than firing a zarr towards your enemies (I do love my zarr no hate there). I would love to see snipers scale with enemy health. In my mind the sniper acts much like the dagger; single target high priority. Snipers and scoped weapons should receive something like covert legality or scale with health/armor. 

I too like Rio's endurance vids since I derive similar pleasures from the mechanics of playing and damaging high lvl enemies and the nessesary knowledge and team compositions needed to succeed at that level of play. I find him much less anoying on stream... I find he self promotes too much in his youtube videos.

Edited May 18, 2017 by TANTO_17
Added content to my sparse old post and stated who I was talking to

[OvisCaedo]

Asking so vaguely about augments is a bit... difficult to give an answer to. I was very excited for a new Ivara augment, until the new Ivara augment came out and was something I cannot see myself ever using. Not that I can't SEE some uses for it, but I doubt I'll ever want to try to use the specific setups to use them.

Harrow I'm unsure on. I'm interested, I guess? As someone who largely plays solo or duo, headshotting is not actually foreign to me. I still really have to wonder about the actual usability of his 3.

edit: Or maybe somewhere in that stream there IS info on what the upcoming augments are, but there's no summary and nobody replying so far has acted like details were present, and I'm not really interested in sitting through or skipping around the 27 minutes to hunt for this information.

Edited May 17, 2017 by OvisCaedo

[Messor36]

i think new frame is out of his theme... i mean he was called a "PRIEST"...it seems DE think that each priest has some daedly precision skills up their sleve... well now iam afraid to go to church XD thx

[spyvspyaeon]

Just did the survey. Funny is that my picks are the same as ppl who answered this before. Community seem to speak same language, and that's pretty good for me/us. 

[Archeyef]

@[DE]Taylor I'm reading Harrow's ability descriptions again, and I'm noticing a few ambiguities. I'm hoping that someone can clear it up a bit.

I'm a little confused on his first ability. Initially I thought gaining shields for each enemy hit meant each enemy you have headshot will provide the shield buff, and that was the assumption I was working from. But reading it again, it looks like it could also mean that each enemy hit by the ability itself imparts a shield buff. Those are very different effects, which would mean some major differences in my opinion of him. Can you or someone els efrom DE please clarify that a bit?

Also, does the ally healing on his 2 only apply to headshots, or is it any gun damage? I assume melee damage doesn't count due to the firerate and reload buffs.

I'm hoping the answers to these questions will help alleviate my concerns about him. I would love it if my problems with him were down to my own misunderstandings.

[Blakrana]

1) Harrow interests more for what he comes with in terms of expanding on the lore and setting, as I need hands on to get an idea. Right now Harrow's skillset sounds great...if you're playing Solo and aren't in much of a rush. And I can see how Harrow would be fun to write around in a Narrative sense, as there preternatural accuracy can be more readily achieved without breaking Suspension of Disbelief. Problem is, as others note, relying on Headshots to function requires time and patience that the standard group play is somewhat antithetical towards; Mass AoE damage and CC, high speed team movement...track a specific spot when enemies are already various gibs, or just bring something that doesn't have to worry about spotting?

And that's before considering how for those like myself who prefer to use a Controller, a precision focused frame is nice in concept, tricky in execution due to how Analogue goes. Certainly don't envy [DE]Jim's time getting that figured out, so good luck there.

Overall Harrow could be interesting, but I've got to play him first to be sure. Though his capability against Infested is going to be fickle for much beyond likely plonking Ancients in the face and flailing widely at the rest of the hordes.

2) At present, aside from thinking that Harrow may be a decent fit for Dual Toxocysts (I do enjoy those guns but their Headshot requirement makes it fickle), really need to get hands on to figure it out. Again, Headshots implies you've the time and opportunity to get the shot lined up...which most of the gameplay tends to defy when you're playing in groups.

5) Third time; all the benefit in the world means little if you can do the job faster and more reliably with something else. On the other hand, if it's a decent pistol for extreme ranged engagements, hey...sniper pistol for solo stuff. Though I am sorely hoping the poor thing doesn't have some arbitrary 'scope sway'. It's already frustrating on Snipers, and having it on a pistol would be senseless what with being a much lighter weapon.

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I'd like a vauban augment for his 2... That turns all mines into frisbee's that can be thrown at enemies.

Bounce mine - Bounces an enemy around up to 3 bounces that does damage for each bounces

Trip wire - surrounds them in a cage, immobilizing them for a duration

Shred - attaches to an enemey after a 2 sec duration it detonates doin 400 base blast damage (40% of enemies armor and health as puncture damage) with guaranteed  puncture proc in a 5m radius.

Concussion - explodes on contact, rag dolling enemies in a 7m radius, with guaranteed radiation proc, and deafening them for 10 secs.

 

 

As far as harrow is concerned....too much focus on just head shots. How bout allowing for body and limb shots that can rip off body parts or rip an enemy in half and offer other bonuses like increased combo counter or heightened accuracy.

Also, i like his crit bonus passive.. but for the focus on his sniping and head shots.. his passive should instead be...

Slows time for harrow while in zoom mode for 5s and reduces incoming damage by 50% and makes him immune to effects that could pull him out of zoom mode.

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak