It's Time To Stop Punishing Moon Clans

[(PSN)decogold]

Recently, DE have been relentless on the amount of requirements needed by Moon clans (Ambulas event, Hema to name a few), which is quite literally putting a drag on clan co-operation. Players who are involved with these types of clans are becoming stagnant with their involvement due to the sheer scale of resources needed as it is inflated to the extreme, it's time to change this.

 

A key point which is not brought up often enough is that moon clans often facilitate vast quantities of new players who are there to seek help from fellow veterans - they often do not have an interest in contributing to events as they have other things to do. This means that the amount of players who are able to effectively contribute is shrunk without even involving other factors such as inactivity or even veteran players not being bothered to participate as the amount which is required by them is simply far too large to accomplish.

If DE really cared about "clan participation" then they need to change the structure of rewards which actually favour clan participation. (Completing a mission with a clan member will only contribute to the reward etc). But no, these large bloated out requirements are simply an excuse for DE to say "screw you" to the large clans which exist in the Warframe ecosystem. It's going to drive players to the brink - it has got to stop.

Edited May 18, 2017 by (PS4)decogold
sentence correction

[DarkLordX2]

I would just rather have solo events back, I get rewarded for my effort, that way I prefer it.

[Xekrin]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)decogold said:

If DE really cared about "clan participation" then they need to change the structure of rewards clan sizes

FTFY

Expecting a single clan to have 1000 members is the real joke.  Clans should not exceed 500 at most and there should be more clan size tiers to accommodate the needs of clans members who amass to preset sizes.

A clan that is minimum 300 and max 1000 is just asking for trouble, in any game.  People who are in charge of these clans won't even bother with things like interview processes or strict requirements, its come one come all just to fill the numbers up.

It is nearly as bad as Facebook games that require people to invite thousands of strangers to their personal lives just to request game tokens to finish a game like Farmville.

[---RV---Maniac]

They actually scalled down the requirements for supra vandal, meaning we didnt have to do 100x than ghost clan. So they showed some understanding towards moon clans inactivity rates.

My clan, managed to unlock the boss in a few hours, by the end of the event we gathered over 10x the amount of points needed to unlock it. So for us, it wasn't much of a problem however we are at the top so its hard to compare to average clans. But I didnt hear many complains about it from moon clans, suprisingly the lower tiers complained more it seems.

[(PSN)decogold]

Just now, ---RV---Maniac said:

They actually scalled down the requirements for supra vandal, meaning we didnt have to do 100x than ghost clan. So they showed some understanding towards moon clans inactivity rates.

My clan, managed to unlock the boss in a few hours, by the end of the event we gathered over 10x the amount of points needed to unlock it. So for us, it wasn't much of a problem however we are at the top so its hard to compare to average clans. But I didnt hear many complains about it from moon clans, suprisingly the lower tiers complained more it seems.

But that's the issue - they consistently inflate the number of requirements/resources in the first place and then are forced to lower it after a backlash. This is the mentality which is shown by DE when they put such things in place during it's release.

[---RV---Maniac]

1 minute ago, (PS4)decogold said:

But that's the issue - they consistently inflate the number of requirements/resources in the first place and then are forced to lower it after a backlash. This is the mentality which is shown by DE when they put such things in place during it's release.

The thing is, that are people that will go out of their way and tell you to "deal with it" or "its a moon clan what do u expect" or "moon clans are the same as ghost clan". Even though none of these people have an ideia whats like to run a moon clan in warframe or are affected by this in any way, they still march on to protest against changes like their life depends on it. 

For every complain about requirements, there's a guy defending them so ye it's not easy to get simple ideias and concepts through.

Im already happy they scalled down a bit. Honestly, doesn't affect me much but I understand the pain of growing a moon clan and not everyone gets to choose the elitist route.

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

11 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

FTFY

Expecting a single clan to have 1000 members is the real joke.  Clans should not exceed 500 at most and there should be more clan size tiers to accommodate the needs of clans members who amass to preset sizes.

A clan that is minimum 300 and max 1000 is just asking for trouble, in any game.  People who are in charge of these clans won't even bother with things like interview processes or strict requirements, its come one come all just to fill the numbers up.

It is nearly as bad as Facebook games that require people to invite thousands of strangers to their personal lives just to request game tokens to finish a game like Farmville.

Honestly, what I want to see is a system like, currently for a ghost clan you need 400 beacons to unlock the final mission. That is 40 per expected member. So why couldn't clan's research/events go off of this? Let's say even for Hema, that was 500 mutagen per member (I think, if math is wrong then sorry), which would be better than just a straight 500,000 for the largest clan tier. If we did it like this, the names of the clan tiers could stay just to show how big you are, but they don't necessarily have to mean anything. This would eliminate the problem you are talking about here, where people just get as many people in as possible. This would also still punish clans that have a lot of inactive players, just not nearly as severely. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by (XB1)ultimategamerjr

[---RV---Maniac]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Honestly, what I want to see is a system like, currently for a ghost clan you need 400 beacons to unlock the final mission. That is 40 per expected member. So why couldn't clan's research/events go off of this? Let's say even for Hema, that was 500 mutagen per member (I think, if math is wrong then sorry), which would be better than just a straight 500,000 for the largest clan tier. If we did it like this, the names of the clan tiers could stay just to show how big you are, but they don't necessarily have to mean anything. This would eliminate the problem you are talking about here, where people just get as many people in as possible. This would also still punish clans that have a lot of inactive players, just not nearly as severely. 

I defend this for events only, wouldnt work for research cuz u can change numbers in between. In operations ur roster can be locked so its fine.

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

Just now, ---RV---Maniac said:

I defend this for events only, wouldnt work for research cuz u can change numbers in between. In operations ur roster can be locked so its fine.

Maybe it could take like seven days for any change in costs to take effect?

[---RV---Maniac]

Just now, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Maybe it could take like seven days for any change in costs to take effect?

no need, research is a work in progress. Just the ideia for operations is fine. Applying to research would lead to unfairness, hema was bad across all tiers, shouldnt be used to for reason to apply permanent changes, I still see hema as a clear mistake even if DE wont admit it openly.

[Beggining]

30 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

A clan that is minimum 300 and max 1000 is just asking for trouble, in any game.

The gap between 300 to 1000 is indeed too large. It'd be rather difficult to set a requirement or limit to achieve because they'd have to guess how many people are active between those numbers.

[trst]

Clan member benchmarks should be looked at and we do need a tier between mountain and moon.

BUT event requirements for moon can't be reduced but so far. Should there be the 50%+ active moon chan then event leaderboards get dominated by them.

 

Plus no matter what anyone says it IS the fault of moon clan members for getting shafted by event requirements. Even if things get restructured you can't go expecting things to go well for you when your clan has 1,000 members and less than 100 are active. It is solely your fault for remaining in that clan or refusing to remove inactive members.

[UmbraDestroyer]

Just now, (PS4)decogold said:

Recently, DE have been relentless on the amount of requirements needed by Moon clans (Ambulas event, Hema to name a few), which is quite literally putting a drag on clan co-operation. Players who are involved with these types of clans are becoming stagnant with their involvement due to the sheer scale of resources needed as it is inflated to the extreme, it's time to change this.

 

A key point which is not brought up often enough is that moon clans often facilitate vast quantities of new players who are there to seek help from fellow veterans - they often do not have an interest in contributing to events as they have other things to do. This means that the amount of players who are able to effectively contribute is shrunk without even involving other factors such as inactivity or even veteran players not being bothered to participate as the amount which is required by them is simply far too large to accomplish.

If DE really cared about "clan participation" then they need to change the structure of rewards which actually favour clan participation. (Completing a mission with a clan member will only contribute to the reward etc). But no, these large bloated out requirements are simply an excuse for DE to say "screw you" to the large clans which exist in the Warframe ecosystem. It's going to drive players to the brink - it has got to stop.

Another casual player. You want to make everything to recive easier. Because of that players there is no hardcore things, that really needed. But you forget - it is a clan. To recieve grofit you need to work together. You have a lot inactive clanmates? Leave your clan and find more active one. And it is not DE trouble that your clan is a clan of inactive players. And tell me, why 1 - 3 days was enough that PC moon clans recieved ambulas bossfight?

Edited May 18, 2017 by UmbraDestroyer

[TankHunter678]

A pity they cannot put in a dynamic requirement or something where the scaling checks for how many members of a given clan have logged in before the event within a time limit of say... 30 days.

 

That way a large but inactive clan with only less or equal to 10 active people get ghost clan requirements for the event. This way people do not have to abandon a clan they have a lot of history with, just because its mostly inactive.

[(PSN)xRockinVaruka]

• Ghost: base requirement (not multiplied)
• Shadow: 3 times
• Storm: 10 times
• Mountain: 30 times
• Moon: 100 times

I believe there should be more intermediate clan tiers. As now, when you upgrade from a ghost clan to a shadow clan, the costs triples for research weapons and frames. From 10 slots to 30 slots in member space.

Base (1) ->  3 -> 5 -> 10 -> 20 -> 40 -> 80. Something like that. I can't really come up with appropriate numbers, but the idea may be well. 

A mountain clan (10*30=300 member slots) to (10*100=1000 member slots) seems like too much in between. 

When you DO upgrade, you have that lingering gap that you must fill in if you want to be an effective *insert clan tier name* clan. Not to mention the weeding of inactive members, solo clans, etc. I do believe in that way, clans can come up with relatively better contribution to the gradual increment of research requirements. 






All that research for Hema for Moon clans... *spams Trinity Blessing*

[(PSN)robotwars7]

4 hours ago, DarkLordX2 said:

I would just rather have solo events back, I get rewarded for my effort, that way I prefer it.

this^. was way easier when all you had to worry about was yourself completing the Event. Clans still participated through helping other clanmates with the event.

4 hours ago, Xekrin said:

It is nearly as bad as Facebook games that require people to invite thousands of strangers to their personal lives just to request game tokens to finish a game like Farmville.

*triggered by Candy Crush Saga request flashbacks*

what i don't get is why don't we just abandon the idea of Moon clans altogether? be honest, who here talks to literally EVERY member of their moon clan on a regular basis? they're mostly just there to give new players and loners the benefit of being in a clan. most Moon clans have a ton of inactive players, and the research costs are ridiculous. why does anyone even want to stay in a moon clan when it would be more beneficial to just change to a smaller clan or make your own? I feel that if clans were at a maximum of something like 100 people, smaller and close-knit, you'd see far more people mingling, far more communicating, and events and research wouldn't become a chore to do. granted, you could still have inactive players, but it's still less of a slap in the face to grind for 100 people than it is 1000 people.

moon clans are just TOO big, you can't form a proper friendship with that many people, so you just end up "knowing" them as acquaintances, assuming you don't ignore them completely. it's a lot of people to manage for leaders, and it's a lot of work for members. it seems to harm player interactivity more than help it. clans should be a group of people you can rely on, or at the very least hold a conversation with when they are online.

 

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

The whole point of clans is participation. If large clans are stagnating that's an issue with the players. I'm in a ghost clan and even at base level because most players aren't participating, it puts a larger load on ones that do. Moon clans just magnify that issue because they're supposed to have more players.

Alright lets say you and a 1000 other people all bought a mansion together and were supposed to split costs and take care of the house together. 80% of the people don't do jack S#&$ and there's garbage everywhere and the rent is due. Now whats the best option here?

[(PSN)decogold]

4 hours ago, UmbraDestroyer said:

Another casual player. You want to make everything to recive easier. Because of that players there is no hardcore things, that really needed. But you forget - it is a clan. To recieve grofit you need to work together. You have a lot inactive clanmates? Leave your clan and find more active one. And it is not DE trouble that your clan is a clan of inactive players. And tell me, why 1 - 3 days was enough that PC moon clans recieved ambulas bossfight?

No, you somehow assuming this fact is beyond ridiculous. Because the fact that a 1 week event required (on average) 3-4 days to complete leaving with only 4-3 days left worth of actually fighting the razorback is beyond a joke.

You're saying there are no hardcore things? I recommend you try LoR and running a 4 hour survival with level 200 enemies who will snipe you if they even attain a line of sight, there are plenty of things to do which are deemed "hardcore". Yes attributing massive amounts of requirements does not invoke clan participation as people become sick and tired of getting to such astronomical levels. I do not have a lot of inactive players, please have a re-read of the thread where i mentioned that moon clans harbour high numbers of new players who are not interested in participating.

The fact that moving clans due to an event is beyond ridiculous "don't like your current clan/can't achieve it? Go somewhere else then!" is all i constantly hear. My clan actually consists of fun and active people, why should i be forced to move simply because DE decided "yeah let's just make unattainable amounts of requirements from now on". They will end up driving people away from a moon clan which is damaging to the game overall. 

[Kusungphak]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Alright lets say you and a 1000 other people all bought a mansion together and were supposed to split costs and take care of the house together. 80% of the people don't do jack S#&$ and there's garbage everywhere and the rent is due. Now whats the best option here?

Find a new house and better roommates. I can also find a group inside this overcrowded house and move to a new house where we do share the responsibility. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Kusungphak

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

why are you in a moon clan tho ? just to see people begging for plat or a hotdog or for the spam of the invites ? seriously, the worst possible clan to be is a moon clan.

[(PSN)decogold]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)maso_sage-mode said:

why are you in a moon clan tho ? just to see people begging for plat or a hotdog or for the spam of the invites ? seriously, the worst possible clan to be is a moon clan.

Personally, i'm in a moon clan as i rather like helping new players with the game, it's not a fact which has contributed to this thread however - it's the recent events which have manifested as moon clans are deemed "don't achieve this" by DE themselves. 

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)decogold said:

Personally, i'm in a moon clan as i rather like helping new players with the game, it's not a fact which has contributed to this thread however - it's the recent events which have manifested as moon clans are deemed "don't achieve this" by DE themselves. 

yeah you have a lot of points to do but i think its based on activity. Moon clan is 1k people right ? 19k points for golden trophy, 19 points each guy...tell me thats not achievable lol.

Its supposed that everyone in the clan has to do his/her part in the event. The same goes for dojo researchs...let the Hema thing in a corner cause they exagerated this time( i can agree with you on that), but whats the reason to stay in a clan with 600/1000 fresh new players begging for everything ? there is none for me, as i spent so much time in the game i feel more comfortable to stay in a clan with experienced people. Solution? Mass kick at the end of the event for everyone that did not play it, seems fair enough for me. If people have jobs and stuff they can say that and ofc its a dfferent story than randoms just lazy to play it. you have my point of view on moon clan argument. THink about this also: why do you have to see your effort wasted from a bunch of randoms? Good luck for the event tho

[(PSN)ghinellil]

You can reduce the clan size 

 

How many active player do you have in the clan? For active i mean they play every days, not just login.

[CoffeeMonster42]

I don't understand why these events are clan events anyway. They would have worked fine as solo events.

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, (PS4)maso_sage-mode said:

but whats the reason to stay in a clan with 600/1000 fresh new players begging for everything ? there is none for me, as i spent so much time in the game i feel more comfortable to stay in a clan with experienced people. 

Maybe some people are not self-centered and like to help other players achieving stuff.

I'm in a Moon Clan with a lot of inexperienced/casual players, I really enjoy it, but it is indeed complicated to do something in the events. I think we did 14k5 in Ambulas Reborn (not even Gold Trophy), we obviously failed the Ignis W Research, and heavy researches are taking a while (Hema is something like 50% done). Not really a big deal I have to say, but still, that's a bit sad.

Ah, and thank you DE for the Stims researches requiring 1 million polymer each, it was a pleasure sinking all our resources a few weeks before Razorback's madness.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Chewarette