[SPOILERS] A mindblowing theory! (Sorry, if already posted before)

[MrM1]

Warframes are the dead crewmen of the Zariman ship.

 

Why should that be the case? -Remember the Orokin Derelict, an orokin tower overrun by the infestation?

What if the infestation hit the Zariman ship aswell? The children (Operators) managed to survive because of their powers, maybe they enhanced their powers by combining them with the infestation itself? That's not my point, my point is: Not every single crewman may have died just because of the accident, maybe some survived but were finished off by the infestation? If that is the case, they, probably, got corrupted by it and turned into the infested. Simple.

Let's get to Excalibur Prime's codex entry: "We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction [...]"

You get what I'm trying to say? What if the codex entry refers to the dead crewman, who are infested, as "the twisted few"?

 

That could explain lots of things. The fact that the inside of a warframe is the infestation (or atleast a small part of it) would make sense. Even the cryopod in the infested room (behind the "throne") could be explained by just saying that the inside of the warframe (in our case, the crewman) is put there for healing or something like that. + The warframes' loyality to the Operators could be explained aswell, maybe the children tried to help some crewmen during the accident? Who knows?

 

 

Any thoughts?

Edited May 23, 2017 by MrM1

[PrVonTuckIII]

More likely than not, they're our parents, just for the feelz.

Edited May 23, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[Vilmera]

10 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

You get what I'm trying to say? What if the codex entry refers to the dead crewman, who are infested, as "the twisted few"?

this line refers to tenno-operators as twisted few, those who get frames. just dont try to fool yourself - quoted phrase quite unambiguous

Edited May 23, 2017 by Vilmera

[Justice_Ember]

Well, that's interesting, I mean, DE has been hinting for a while that 1.- the Warframes are made of infested flesh, and 2.- Warframes (previously thought to be the Tenno) behaved like beasts. But I'd go in a more Sixth Sense-ish route and say that the children are in fact the ghost/conciousness of the Zariman Crew (Military ship in Ember Prime's Codex) and the WFs are our previous bodies now infested and affected by the void.

[Dreddeth]

You haven't beaten The War Within, have you? It heavily implies the fate of the adult crewmen, and it's not pretty.

Also, the actual insides of the warframe don't have to be Zariman crewmen at all, though it is strongly implied to be Infested in nature. If it had to be a former crewman, then making more might just be impossible at this point since there would be a finite number of Zariman bodies.

Finally, Excalibur Prime's codex entry specifically mentions the frame as "a conduit of their affliction," so it's far more likely to be referring to the Tenno, considering that a warframe is exactly that.

[Justice_Ember]

1 minute ago, Vilmera said:

this line refers to tenno-operators as twisted few, those who get frames. just dont try to fool yourself - quoted phrase quite unambiguous

Well, not really, we assume it does because it fits, but lorewise it could mean something else entirely.

[PsiWarp]

1 minute ago, Vilmera said:

this line refers to tenno-operators as twisted few, those who get frames. just dont try to fool yourself - quoted phrase quite unambiguous

At the time we didn't know about the Operators, not sure if DE even conceptualized them that early on in development. But now that we know they exist, that quote can be interpreted from a different perspective.

[Jackel7]

The main components of the Warfames comes from the infested. Ex. Nano spores

[Kaokasalis]

13 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Well, not really, we assume it does because it fits, but lorewise it could mean something else entirely.

The warframe operators are the only confirmed people that so far uses the power of the void. There has been no other lore mention of anyone like us so its highly unlikely that it refers to someone else.

[Vilmera]

2 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

At the time we didn't know about the Operators, not sure if DE even conceptualized them that early on in development. But now that we know they exist, that quote can be interpreted from a different perspective.

 persons called "twisted few" are those who received frames that built around them, not those who became frames themselves. even if the operators at the time of writing the text didn't existed yet in their present form the meaning of the words in given codex entry is difficult to interpret differently

i know OP's idea looks crazy and fresh enough but no

[redeyedtreefrog]

The lore currently in the game heavily steers away from, if not debunks entirely, this theory.

The lore DOES state that some, maybe all, of the adults onboard the zariman survived the void-jump accident, however, they were driven completely insane. This gives the theory some plausibility, but other lore states that the warframes were partially created in a project overseen by the archimedian margulis, as a means of therapy to help the children of the zariman overcome the extensive mental trauma recieved while they were onboard. (I think it was ballas who later turned the project into a means of making war against the other factions in the system). I find it extremely unlikely that margulis would have used twisted, disfigured, infested amalgams of a traumatized child's OWN PARENTS, in order to soothe them. Every part of this screams lovecraftian horror, which I do not believe is the path that DE is taking with warframe.

As for the codex entry about the twisted few: "We built a frame around them". This strongly suggests that warframes were specifically tailored to a specific tenno, with their personalities and ideals in mind. For example, the tenno that once burned margulis was likely the original operator of ember; that tenno's personality had become wild, almost feral, with a heavy focus on fire, which shared their personality. Limbo's original operator was likely more intact, mentally speaking, with a high intelligence, and a knack for being a showoff. Loki would have been a stereotypical school troublemaker, always attempting to play tricks on his elders and pin them on his fellow tenno.

Point being, warframes were created to match their original operators' personalities. Warframe and Operator were a matching set. I can't see this being plausible, or even possible, by using twisted, maddened, infested rotting heaps of the operators' own parents as a base.

[IEpicWolfI]

"Mindblowing"

[Justice_Ember]

32 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

The warframe operators are the only confirmed people that so far uses the power of the void. There has been no other lore mention of anyone like us so its highly unlikely that it refers to someone else.

The phrase is ambigous enough to be used for anything, and while at this point it fits better for tenno it could be something like the OP mentions.

32 minutes ago, Vilmera said:

 persons called "twisted few" are those who received frames that built around them, not those who became frames themselves. even if the operators at the time of writing the text didn't existed yet in their present form the meaning of the words in given codex entry is difficult to interpret differently

i know OP's idea looks crazy and fresh enough but no

It's not really difficult to interpret differently, just last week the theory of the Rhino Prime codex referring to the "un-tamed" infested beast gained a lot of traction, as well as certain lines from ballas' "presentations"

28 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

The lore DOES state that some, maybe all, of the adults onboard the zariman survived the void-jump accident, however, they were driven completely insane. This gives the theory some plausibility, but other lore states that the warframes were partially created in a project overseen by the archimedian margulis, as a means of therapy to help the children of the zariman overcome the extensive mental trauma recieved while they were onboard. (I think it was ballas who later turned the project into a means of making war against the other factions in the system). I find it extremely unlikely that margulis would have used twisted, disfigured, infested amalgams of a traumatized child's OWN PARENTS, in order to soothe them. Every part of this screams lovecraftian horror, which I do not believe is the path that DE is taking with warframe.

It would be great tho.

[Deshiel]

Shinji get into the damn transference!

[Blakrana]

1 hour ago, MrM1 said:

What if the infestation hit the Zariman ship aswell?

The Zariman incident happened somewhere in the space between at least Saturn, and Tau...nothing else, Saturn is where it resurfaced according to the Ember Prime Codex.

However the Infested are not mentioned anywhere in that entry. The Zariman is reported as being quite functional if simply empty. Any Infestation would be noted. Only compounded further by the issue that we don't know whether or not the Infestation was extra-planetary at that point; far as we know of the vague history there, Infestation is why Earth was lost, but not clear if it was on other planets or locations until later.

The only thing we know for now about the Zariman incident is it being tied to the Void.

1 hour ago, MrM1 said:

maybe they enhanced their powers by combining them with the infestation itself

The Tenno have their abilities entirely derived from their Void 'gift/taint'. If they had any form of Infestation to them, they'd likely have a different interaction with Helminth than being viewed as a "Void Demon".

1 hour ago, MrM1 said:

t every single crewman may have died just because of the accident, maybe some survived but were finished off by the infestation?

Those that didn't die had it worse, really, what with the Void driving people homicidally mad and thus beginning to hunt and attack anything else. This led to the eventual clash between the lucid children and their deranged elders; much as there seem to have been varying approaches, the overall result is that the deranged were either killed or corralled in self defence.

Whatever the case, the children of Zariman had become patricides.

Compounded further by being the only living things found on Zariman when Kaleen rediscovered it.

1 hour ago, MrM1 said:

The warframes' loyality to the Operators could be explained aswell

Warframes are shells. Without the Tenno, they're inert with no motive force.

And then you run into the pure logical problem:

If Warframes are derived and constructed from the corpses of the Zariman, where are they being stored in order for us to build a nigh infinite quantity?

Especially if we consider that the Tenno did have several Void abilities, particularly the beam, that would be unlikely to leave a salvageable corpse whatsoever.

42 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

warframes were partially created in a project overseen by the archimedian margulis, as a means of therapy to help the children of the zariman overcome the extensive mental trauma recieved while they were onboard

Not quite: Margulis is responsible for the Transference system and it was intended to be used for therapy, as a means of healing per Silvanna's account. It's only through the encounter with the Creature that Davis was working upon in the Rhino Prime Codex, however, that the possibility of militarising the Tenno through Transference into such entities, that the beginning of the R&D for the Warframe Project began.

Cue Margulis' resistance to that angle ultimately leading her to being executed for Apostasy; really, defying Orokin will more like than not.

42 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

I find it extremely unlikely that margulis would have used twisted, disfigured, infested amalgams of a traumatized child's OWN PARENTS, in order to soothe them. Every part of this screams lovecraftian horror, which I do not believe is the path that DE is taking with warframe.

Indeed. The Infested are already Cosmic Horror enough, really, considering how they operate.

Margulis and Silvanna were explicitly working to heal and help the Tenno. If there were any proxies being developed, I imagine it's far more likely Margulis and Silvanna were looking at specially grown surrogates, with Silvanna's understanding of Infested biology being used in some form, though it's not too clear yet what Margulis wanted her for admittedly.

42 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Point being, warframes were created to match their original operators' personalities

This is debatable, considering that the Prime Trailers for Saryn, Banshee, Nekros and Vauban all indicate that the Warframes were made according to Ballas' designs for a particular role or ideal. All they needed to be able to do was properly employ the Tenno's power via Transference to function as designed.

Whatever possible overlap these designs may have had with a given Tenno are a lucky coincidence...to say nothing for the possibility utilising a given Warframe impacts or affects an Operator's psychology on a minor level to be more 'in line' with the Frame and how it functions.

Think akin to Noh theatre; a performer doesn't 'wear' the mask, but becomes the mask.

Whatever the Warframes are so far as we know right now are Infested derived proxies purely intended for employment by Tenno via the Transference system. The Worm Queen explicitly declares them an "Infested Puppet" after all.

[Pavelord]

1 hour ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

Point being, warframes were created to match their original operators' personalities. Warframe and Operator were a matching set. I can't see this being plausible, or even possible, by using twisted, maddened, infested rotting heaps of the operators' own parents as a base.

this was a common belief, among players, but this traits were tied to their stances and idles, now that those can be chosen among all stances and idles, it gives less weight to this idea, any frame can have any personality, and as we know the tenno control the warframes, so any personality should come from the tenno not the frame.

I remember discussions when the second dream came out, I always thought weird that people tought that a sapient frame would stand there in the arsenal modeling itself for you to choose.

[Kaokasalis]

7 hours ago, zzzNitro said:

The phrase is ambigous enough to be used for anything, and while at this point it fits better for tenno it could be something like the OP mentions.

But unfortunately there is no proof or lore mention that supports that theory so you are just being dismissive of the evidence. The powers of the warframes come from the void with the Operator being the conduit for it. The warframes are in some way related to the infestation, probably being some kind of stable strain of the infestation that was used to build host bodies powerful enough to bear the strain of the void. Ballas refers to them as golems or beasts so its more likely that they have an artificial origin than being made from an adult human.

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

12 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

More likely than not, they're our parents, just for the feelz.

That would be the most cliched reveal ever.

[Justice_Ember]

8 hours ago, Hieracon said:

But unfortunately there is no proof or lore mention that supports that theory so you are just being dismissive of the evidence. The powers of the warframes come from the void with the Operator being the conduit for it. The warframes are in some way related to the infestation, probably being some kind of stable strain of the infestation that was used to build host bodies powerful enough to bear the strain of the void. Ballas refers to them as golems or beasts so its more likely that they have an artificial origin than being made from an adult human.

Well, I am being dismissive of the interpretation if you will, the tenno and their recount of events through the second dream and the war within but the tenno are the ultimate unreliable narrator.

Anyways, as @Blakrana mentioned there's nothing else besides "the twisted few" quote that could be linked to the infestation aboard the zariman at this time, but remember this, of the infectation itself we know as little as almost anything so it could be retconned that the technocyte virus was dormant and the void activated it. So OPs idea, while farfetched, could be close to the next piece of the story.

[Blakrana]

5 hours ago, zzzNitro said:

nothing else besides "the twisted few" quote that could be linked to the infestation

...Excepting it can't due to the surrounding context for that line explicitly discussing the Void and the Tenno.

Quote

 In our desperation we turned to the Void. The blinding night, the hellspace where our science and reason failed

This tells us where the few came from; the Void. 

Quote

We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction

Building a frame refers to the development of the Warframe combat systems. Which, as we've been told numerous times, are intended to channel the power of the Tenno; that of the Void.

Toss in what we've learned of the Tenno's condition since TSD and all that, and it's clear the Orokin view their Void abilities as an affliction, not a gift.

Quote

These rejects, these Tenno, became our saviors.

This finally tells us that the rejects were the Tenno. Those afflicted with the Void, twisted by it.

No mention of Infestation. No implication or allusion of shambling horrors, mutated and wretched forms...simply the Void and its victims being used as weapons of war.

A sentence's context is not necessarily contained in itself, but also in the sentences around it. Taking the line out of that context could be used to argue indeed anything we want...but it'd be poor form and reportage to pretend such an approach has any value, as we've omitted the information that clarifies it.

[Justice_Ember]

6 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

...Excepting it can't due to the surrounding context for that line explicitly discussing the Void and the Tenno.

Ah! but there's a huge important piece of information given by omission and that is the difference between adults and children, the void affected these groups differently and there's no explanation why, and this could be ret-conned whatever way they wanted, including, infestation of course.

[Hypernaut1]

I once thought that WFs were based on the failed infested/man hybrid soldiers that eventually got out of control. The zariman children were powerful, but needed a way to direct their powers. So scientist made suits based on these great warriors that went mad that the Tenno were able to control.

 

I think there has been lore that contradicts the idea of WFs being designed after actual warriors though. 

There is still no explanation for their "personalities" though

Edited May 24, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Blakrana]

20 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Ah! but there's a huge important piece of information given by omission and that is the difference between adults and children, the void affected these groups differently and there's no explanation why, and this could be ret-conned whatever way they wanted, including, infestation of course.

Building theories out of things not said is the same as 'making stuff up'. There's no harm in playing with Headcanon...but when one has to explicitly rely on omission to do so, you might be better off conceding that you're pursuing the wrong angle.

Though the argument can be made that they are referenced; they're the ones that didn't return. The "twisted few" are those that did, and they are what are important to the documentation of the Warframe project. The emphasis placed upon it only being a twisted few to return from there...highlights how there are others that did not return.

And if it was infestation responsible for the madness on Zariman, then it'd have been said as such. The Void is what drove the elders mad, as heavily underscored throughout War Within. Infestation certainly wouldn't have lead to ordinary people simply becoming feral, as Infestation has a very defined behaviour.

In order for it to be plausible to be Infestation, you need further evidence to then explain a) how it got there on the Zariman, b) why it didn't behave anything like Infestation is known to do so c) evidence of its presence was not recognised immediately when the Zariman eventually returned and Kaleen investigated it.

For what it's worth, we'll soon find out about the Zariman a bit more potentially, what with the tie in comic with Harrow heavily implying a link considering that teaser image.

[Justice_Ember]

1 hour ago, Blakrana said:

Building theories out of things not said is the same as 'making stuff up'. There's no harm in playing with Headcanon...but when one has to explicitly rely on omission to do so, you might be better off conceding that you're pursuing the wrong angle.

Technically OP is pursuing it, but yes, I much prefer my own theory of the children being the adults spirits and the maddened adults being the souless bodies. That explains why there were children on a military ship as well as making patricide into suicide which has a lot more WTF-factor in it.

1 hour ago, Blakrana said:

In order for it to be plausible to be Infestation, you need further evidence to then explain a) how it got there on the Zariman, b) why it didn't behave anything like Infestation is known to do so c) evidence of its presence was not recognised immediately when the Zariman eventually returned and Kaleen investigated it.

Now here is were the few tidbits of information we have play a huge role, a) Could've been dormant or just classified and omitted ('We didn't. That would violate procedure.') b) good ol' ex-machina blaming it on the void and c) I'm beat here, Kaleen expresses clearly that the zariman was intact and the infestation would've left a trace.

1 hour ago, Blakrana said:

For what it's worth, we'll soon find out about the Zariman a bit more potentially, what with the tie in comic with Harrow heavily implying a link considering that teaser image.

Yeah, I'm hyped AF to learn more about the Zariman.

[Rivyn]

On 5/23/2017 at 1:39 PM, redeyedtreefrog said:

As for the codex entry about the twisted few: "We built a frame around them". This strongly suggests that warframes were specifically tailored to a specific tenno, with their personalities and ideals in mind. For example, the tenno that once burned margulis was likely the original operator of ember; that tenno's personality had become wild, almost feral, with a heavy focus on fire, which shared their personality. Limbo's original operator was likely more intact, mentally speaking, with a high intelligence, and a knack for being a showoff. Loki would have been a stereotypical school troublemaker, always attempting to play tricks on his elders and pin them on his fellow tenno.

Point being, warframes were created to match their original operators' personalities. Warframe and Operator were a matching set. I can't see this being plausible, or even possible, by using twisted, maddened, infested rotting heaps of the operators' own parents as a base.

This has me thinking, if this really is the case, maybe DE could incorporate this into future additions to our Operators. Sine 'we' are still the originals, maybe an affinity module could be added that attaches to our 'main' Warframe. We could gain specific bonuses while using said Warframe, and maybe specific customization options would be made available to be used for our Operators that match that chosen Warframe.