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Do people believe Universal Vacuum will encourage players to use pets?


Music4Therapy
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If pets and sentinels had Universal Vacuum, people would use their preferred Companions, either by style or utility. I would try to raise a certain pet because of their abilities (Smeeta Kavat). I would have Carrier whenever I need the extra ammo conversions for weapons that eat up ammo. Helios if I wanted to passively scan stuff for my Codex. 

The time I used a Kubrow for the quest relating to it, I had to shift my mindset to directly go pick up resources and ammunition. "Ah, dang. This is just pistol ammo. I need rifle ammo!" A Sentinel with Vacuum allows me to keep my fluid gameplay while picking up stuff within an 11 meter radius. I can pick up mods, ammunition, and resource while using Parkour 2.0 and killing things. I'm also going to note that I can pick up stuff through walls as well with my Sentinel's Vacuum. It's easy to miss some pickups because you didn't have Vacuum on, unless you zigzag around picking them up. 

**Here's the thing though. When DE introduced that ALL sentinels be given a generic Sentinel Vacuum mod, people started to use any Sentinel they liked because of their unique precepts and weapons. Before that, the high majority of players used only Carrier because Vacuum was locked to Carrier only. If they did implemented a true universal Vacuum mod and included pets, people would use pets and sentinels as they liked/preferred for their unique precepts, instead of looking at if they had Vacuum or not.

Side note: It's a bit tedious to have pets consume resources to stay healthy and happy, while Sentinels can float around without a care in the world. Is it a good sacrifice, or is it just a gimmick? 

TL;DR | If we had Universal Vacuum, people would pick a preferred companion (Sentinel or Pet) because they liked their utilities/style of gameplay, as well as allowing people to switch around types of Companion. Keeping Vacuum only on Sentinels allows for bias on companions. (Using only Sentinels because they have Vacuum)

Edit: After further reading earlier posts, it should all come down to preference on what a Tenno likes as their companion, either style of play or utility. Sentinel-locked Vacuum shouldn't not play a part in the decision of choosing a companion. I would also like to heavily disagree with the people saying that Universal Vacuum would be for lazy people. With the release of Parkour 2.0, a Universal Vacuum is even more important now. You don't necessarily want to zigzag around to collect things you've missed, when you could have bullet jumped 30 meters into the next engagement with Universal Vacuum. Do not get tunnel vision and see it from only your point of view. I would like to advocate for new players that definitely need the resources for their journey through Warframe while learning the fast gameplay as well. 

Edited by (PS4)xRockinVaruka
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First off, appreciating all the excellent feedback everyone. Thumbs up all around.

 

4 minutes ago, Nexle said:

Why not just make vacuum a mod for warframes? That's a universal vacuum for ya

Warframes are already tight on mod slots as is and its actually a popular request that they actually get *more* slots for all the mods we have. Namely, there is a thread here on the forums (which I agree with) stating that we should have dedicated Augment slots. Also, that would just be a bandaid to what I believe to be the actual issue: Even if we all had vacuum, Sentinels would still outperform Pets due to the poor decision-making/AI.

Edited by Music4Therapy
grammar
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11 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Because here is the reality of the situation.

If the universal vacuum is weaker than the Sentinel version, people will just continue to use Sentinels. If it's just as good or better, it'll just open up another mod slot for our sentinels because as it stands they largely outperform pets.

Here is a summary of the pros and cons of pets and my proposition:

Pets can be revived by picking up health orbs and contrary to popular belief actually have some solid utility in addition to their great survivability. Kavat armor stripping, additive crit chance similar to Maiming Strike, etc... Kubrow Dig for ammo/energy/ls, CC on priority targets, priority target lockdown, etc...

Pets currently have 2 major issues preventing them from being as successful as they could be:

1) Poor AI.

2) The extreme amount of forma requires a ton of investment just to have your pet stare at the wall.

-----------

My proposition?

1) Fix the AI and give the pet commands. A /reset option that would summon your pet would go a long ways towards fixing them being stuck in walls. 

Simple commands such as;

A) Focus priority targets.

B) Take out the trash mobs.

C) Stay close.

D) Stay at X location.

... would go a long way.

2) Then, give pets an aura slot. This would make sense, the bond between the pet and the owner should give some sort of statistical increase to the owner (allies too?) Because right now the relationship is one sided, with the pet benefitting statistically from the owner and not vice versa. This would also help with the 2nd problem and lower the amount of investment required to have a decent pet.

wall of text, yes it will encourage me to look at my cat and dog again

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14 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

First off, appreciating all the excellent feedback everyone. Thumbs up all around.

 

Warframes are already tight on mod slots as is and its actually a popular request that they actually get *more* slots for all the mods we have. Namely, there is a thread here on the forums (which I agree with) stating that we should have dedicated Augment slots. Also, that would just be a bandaid to what I believe to be the actual issue: Even if we all had vacuum, Sentinels would still outperform Pets due to the poor decision-making/AI.

Make vacuum innate for Warframes by using the bullet jump (like mags passive) give mag a new passive. 

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11 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Because here is the reality of the situation.

If the universal vacuum is weaker than the Sentinel version, people will just continue to use Sentinels. If it's just as good or better, it'll just open up another mod slot for our sentinels because as it stands they largely outperform pets.

Here is a summary of the pros and cons of pets and my proposition:

Pets can be revived by picking up health orbs and contrary to popular belief actually have some solid utility in addition to their great survivability. Kavat armor stripping, additive crit chance similar to Maiming Strike, etc... Kubrow Dig for ammo/energy/ls, CC on priority targets, priority target lockdown, etc...

Pets currently have 2 major issues preventing them from being as successful as they could be:

1) Poor AI.

2) The extreme amount of forma requires a ton of investment just to have your pet stare at the wall.

-----------

My proposition?

1) Fix the AI and give the pet commands. A /reset option that would summon your pet would go a long ways towards fixing them being stuck in walls. 

Simple commands such as;

A) Focus priority targets.

B) Take out the trash mobs.

C) Stay close.

D) Stay at X location.

... would go a long way.

2) Then, give pets an aura slot.

This would make sense, the bond between the pet and the owner should give some sort of statistical increase to the owner (allies too?) Because right now the relationship is one sided, with the pet benefitting statistically from the owner and not vice versa. This would also help with the 2nd problem and lower the amount of investment required to have a decent pet.

I think you are correct in most part, the commands maybe just a few, this just adds more buttons to push. I believe that it is one way with only as well with  the pet benefitting from the frame, have the mods bounce back the same effects for shield, health and armor. after all the sentinels now give health back to the player as well as picking everything up , and wyrm prime for those who have it knock back even the highest  level enemies for crowd control this is besides the weapons, and now with the getting I think 4 lives instead of 1  and you can sacrifice one to revive the frame , up to all 3 or 4 whatever it is. this is definitely one sided. so if they do not want to give universal vacuum and their defense is trying to keep things different then here you go. I think you will see even more frames being played with pets for they would become more survivable. So then you pick you poison, run and not have to pick things up and heal and have crowd control and be able to add lives to yourself- OR- become more tanky and shielded and armored and have some support from your pet, but, have to go and pick the stuff up yourself and slow down a little bit. I really do not think that the game was designed to outrun the game itself, which happens sometimes and you are stuck at the end and having to go back for the enemies for they haven't spawned yet. I think the parkour was to increase the fun.

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When I got my first sentinel, which was Carrier, I was quick to put my kubrow in stasis. I have never seen it again to this day and I have honestly never touched the stasis module since Carrier Prime came out. 

Regarding the release of Kavats, I still have yet to get one. I only need 3 more genetic DNA codes to start incubating one, but quite frankly I believe my Carrier Prime will keep me from getting more. 

If this Universal Vaccuum is to work similarly to how it works on sentinels, then maybe I will give pets another go.

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I have over 3000 hours in Warframe. 77% of that is with Carrier Prime equipped. 9% with Helios equipped. (worth noting this 9% happened AFTER sentinel-wide vacuum) 

3% is with my favorite Kubrow, the Huras. 

Would I use the Huras Kubrow more often if it had Vacuum? Absolutely. Over that 3000 hours, I imagine it would be about 40/60 with Carrier Prime. 

Even closer to 50/50 if they would improve AI and remove the senseless upkeep costs of organic companions.

 

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I'm all for universal vacuum as its just a QoL improvement, but as a vet with an overabundance of resources it's not really necessary for me.  I only equip sentinels depending on the frame and/or gun I'm using or if I'm hunting for codex scans.  Other than that I prefer my Adarza or Huras.  

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I really don't see a problem with the way sentinels are currently, they shouldn't be strong but more of a toolkit. I do think however kavats/kubrows should be able to pick stuff up but not as a vacuum as it would literally make no sense since they're not machines but allow them to run around and pick up items when not in combat or when a hotkey is pressed with possibly a toggle allowing us to use them as a pick up tool or for combat on our command and provide a buff for armor, movement speed and possibly shields when used for picking up loot so they don't get destroyed, and I also think Kubrows and Kavats should be made for combat and should have buffs to support that, sentinels however maybe provide CC here and there but as is I'm fine with just how they're.

Edited by iMalicious
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5 minutes ago, iMalicious said:

vacuum as it would literally make no sense since they're not machines

1. How bout "Electro Magnetic void collars"

2. Warframes/Sentinels are not really machines. 

3. And this is a sci-fi horde space ninja horde shooter..nothing really makes sense. 

Edited by (XB1)FCastle74
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7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

1.How bout "Electro Magnetic void collars"

2.Warframes are not machines

3.And this is a sci-fi horde space ninja horde shooter..nothing really makes sense. 

Warframes are not machines o.O sorry but have you done "The war within" warframes are controlled, they're not AI's or human, they're machines/androids/robots or whatever the hell you want to call them and are controlled by the Tenno.

Electro Magnetic void collars o.O so you want items to stick to your pets neck till it's so heavy he cant move and looks like a ball of junk... really.... as I said they're not machines they don't suck in loot unless you want them crapping your loot out every now and then in a corner that smells like another kavat or kubrow shat there when they sniff around and sense it. Yeah a lot doesn't make sense but what you're suggesting is just beyond dumb, Kubrows and Kavats are flesh and blood.

Edited by iMalicious
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Just now, iMalicious said:

Warframes are not machines o.O sorry but have you done "The war within" warframes are controlled, they're not AI's or human, they're machines/androids/robots or whatever the hell you want to call them and are controlled by the Tenno.

Electro Magnetic void collars o.O so you want items to stick to your pets neck till it's so heavy he cant move and looks like a ball of junk... really.... as I said they're not machines they don't suck in loot unless you want them crapping your loot out every now and then in a corner that smells like another kavat or kubrow shat there when they sniff around and sense it. Yeah a lot doesn't make sense but what you're suggesting is just beyond $&*&*#(%&.

Again the Warframe community is proving it can't stay on topic when the word "Vacuum" is used. If you want to arogue about Vacuum go to one of the 1000s of Vacuum threads. Here, I am posing the question of whether or not people will take a pet over a Sentinel even if both had Vacuum.

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5 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

 

Again the Warframe community is proving it can't stay on topic when the word "Vacuum" is used. If you want to arogue about Vacuum go to one of the 1000s of Vacuum threads. Here, I am posing the question of whether or not people will take a pet over a Sentinel even if both had Vacuum.

Well since your thread is about choosing pets and sentinels if both had vacuums, the topic is still about vacuums since pets don't have vacuums and the catagory is about if they both had it so sorry but vacuums is still the topic here.

 

Seriously though did you even read your own threads title when you typed it, it basically spells the catagory of this thread out.

Edited by iMalicious
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Just now, iMalicious said:

Well since your thread is about choosing pets and sentinels if both had vacuums, the topic is still about vacuums since pets don't have vacuums and the catagory is about if they both had it so sorry but vacuums is still the topic here.

No, we are specifically speaking about Sentinels and Pets if Vacuum was taken out of the equation. Its literally the complete opposite. I am trying to have an intelligent conversation about Sentinels vs Pets assuming both have Vacuum, apparently and unfortunately a large portion the community isn't capable of that.

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I would also want to get rid of the whole stasis thing. I would love to freely switch between Helios and any of my furry friends. Universal vacuum independent of companion and Warframes being able to wear kavats as hats to address the AI issues would be ideal. :)

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Improving AI requires a lot of work and honestly I don't expect DE would do that any time soon or at all. I would be totally satisfied if Vacuum is applied to pets, even as a mod. Currently what I don't like the most about pets is that they casually walk into Sapping Mine and got killed instantly. I wonder if pets should get some sort of damage reduction from AoE damage to compensate for their dumb AI.

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5 minutes ago, Eric1738 said:

Improving AI requires a lot of work and honestly I don't expect DE would do that any time soon or at all. I would be totally satisfied if Vacuum is applied to pets, even as a mod. Currently what I don't like the most about pets is that they casually walk into Sapping Mine and got killed instantly. I wonder if pets should get some sort of damage reduction from AoE damage to compensate for their dumb AI.

I agree.

Currently, some measures are in place that make pets easier to upkeep including the fact Health Orbs instantly revive them when they are downed but it does need work.

That said, I agree AI does require a lot of work which is why I recommended at the minimum a /reset option be made available in case they do glitch somehow.

Edited by Music4Therapy
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18 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

No, we are specifically speaking about Sentinels and Pets if Vacuum was taken out of the equation. Its literally the complete opposite. I am trying to have an intelligent conversation about Sentinels vs Pets assuming both have Vacuum, apparently and unfortunately a large portion the community isn't capable of that.

For one your threads title mentions universal vacuum as a question pin pointing that as your topic and inviting people to post their own opinions, which I simply stated mine saying I don't believe pets should have vacuums rather then posting which I would take because it's seriously a one sided question with an obvious answer, which everyone has mentioned in thousands of threads that I guess you never read saying the reason they don't use pets is because they don't have vacuums which is why they use sentinels instead. It's funny you mention 1000's of vacuum threads yet don't even know that, hell was even brought up in the dev stream, which is basically why they mentioned a new pet which would be a machine and said they wanted something unique for kavats/kubrow and not just make vacuum universal.

Edited by iMalicious
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1 minute ago, bronzebonobo said:

just no, there doesn't have to be a gimmick to effectively pick up loot

For the love of god people, stop turning this thread into a big fkn discussion about the perks of Vacuum. We all get it. The whole playerbase gets it. You are beating a dead horse. Have the argument somewhere else.

 

Can I please be given the power to delete thread-derailing comments?

Edited by Music4Therapy
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Just now, Music4Therapy said:

For the love of god people, stop turning this thread into a big fkn discussion about the perks of Vacuum. We all get it. The whole playerbase gets it. You are beating a dead horse. Have the argument somewhere else

If they would just put it into warframes innately with the same range as vacuum has now, OH NO WAIT, they should just leave it like it is if it is such a big deal to them, i don't want them nerfing what we have now just to make people even more angry with them at this point, it is such a ridiculously easy fix, there should be no thought process about this, this should have been implemented years ago anyways, don't know why it is still the same to this day.

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Just now, bronzebonobo said:

If they would just put it into warframes innately with the same range as vacuum has now, OH NO WAIT, they should just leave it like it is if it is such a big deal to them, i don't want them nerfing what we have now just to make people even more angry with them at this point, it is such a ridiculously easy fix, there should be no thought process about this, this should have been implemented years ago anyways, don't know why it is still the same to this day.

Dude, I really don't give a damn about how you feel about it. Stop derailing the thread.

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1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

Dude, I really don't give a damn about how you feel about it. Stop derailing the thread.

one thing i do like about your post is the pet commands and the aura slot idea, you could make a doggo or kitty target specific targets or have them only attack special units in general

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Just now, Music4Therapy said:

For the love of god people, stop turning this thread into a big fkn discussion about the perks of Vacuum. We all get it. The whole playerbase gets it. You are beating a dead horse. Have the argument somewhere else

It seems like you're looking for a yes or no answer to your question. What's the point then? Yes, people would use pets more of they were just universally buffed.

People are discussing the merit of that buff and if it's needed

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