Endura?

[Vafthrudnir]

I'm very tempted to say mastery fodder but I'm not sure the status makes it worth.

[PrVonTuckIII]

So more damage and status? Maybe not top-tier, but certainly on the level of the Destreza.

[Railgun]

By no means do I consider this MR fodder. It looks like a terrific weapon, seeing as though the stance guarantees slash, and with a drifting contact it could go up to 100% status. 

[Tesseract7777]

It would be better if the puncture and slash stats were switched. Would be a pretty decent weapon for slash + status. 

It still looks okay though. Definitely not a crit weapon, but not everything has to be. If it has the forced bleed procs similar to the destreza (Was that the destreza itself or Vulpine Mask, I don't remember...) then it should be really good. I don't see it as worse than Destreza anyways and it certainly isn't a bad weapon. The thing about the Destreza and any Rapier though, is that they tend to be very one target at a time weapons. Some people don't prefer that, some do. 

[(PSN)mr_chainsaw555]

7 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

I'm very tempted to say mastery fodder but I'm not sure the status makes it worth.

since vulpine mask has guarnteed slash procs, and the endura has 25% status, this might be a pretty good condition overload weapon

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)mr_chainsaw555 said:

since vulpine mask has guarnteed slash procs, and the endura has 25% status, this might be a pretty good condition overload weapon

Throw in Drifting Contact and I think this weapon has a lot of potential. It's basically just the status cousin of the Destreza, which has nearly reversed stats when it comes to crit versus status. 

[PrVonTuckIII]

Why in the world are there, like, ten of the same posts above?

[DreadWarlock]

45 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

I'm very tempted to say mastery fodder but I'm not sure the status makes it worth.

Let me say this first, yeah the status chance does make sense. Rapier combos have a tremendous amount of hits. It's actually perfect for status.

The only problem i see here is the attack speed which should've been higher and not lesser.

Edited May 24, 2017 by DreadWarlock

[Heckzu]

1 hour ago, giovanniluca said:

I'm very tempted to say mastery fodder but I'm not sure the status makes it worth.

You clearly have never used

The Endura looks like it can outdamage the Destreza.

[(PSN)PaceBrkr]

1 minute ago, Heckzu said:

You clearly have never used

The Endura looks like it can outdamage the Destreza.

Hm. As someone who enjoys status weapons, Endura + Condition Overload + Vulpine Mask + Drifting Contact = HEAVEN. Oh I can't wait! But I'm gonna have to :(

[Miser_able]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)VanTX89 said:

Hm. As someone who enjoys status weapons, Endura + Condition Overload + Vulpine Mask + Drifting Contact = HEAVEN. Oh I can't wait! But I'm gonna have to :(

Rip. But hey, at least by the time you can get it there should be good builds you can yoink. 

[Music4Therapy]

EDIT: I want to properly test the weapon before making assumptions.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

If it's not viable for a blood rush build (and it's not) then it's fodder to me.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

What no one is considering here is Condition Overload + consistent viral or cold procs. Status has been on-par with crit scaling for some time now, without needing (although greatly benefiting from) a high combo multiplier.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

37 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

You clearly have never used

The Endura looks like it can outdamage the Destreza.

Gonna be swell. 

[KodokunaSora]

and also you arent considering relentless combination, which slash procs increase combo counter insanely fast due to the stance, this gives endura insane potential due condition overload will increase the slash procs damage to a point crits arent a thing,also having high status you can strip armor fast or add viral with shattering impact to half the hp and lower the base armor and slash procs finish them even much faster, look at lesion that is a beast of a weapon with status alone.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 minutes ago, JellalOuma said:

and also you arent considering relentless combination, which slash procs increase combo counter insanely fast due to the stance

This too

[aligatorno]

Just tested it with a 4x Status Mods + Condition Overload + Primed Fury + Primed Pressure Point + Drifting Contact and this thing is a complete monster. Since it hits so many times it applies a lot of status procs, getting CO to do crazy damage, after a few hits it takes 1/2 of a lvl 100 corrupted bombard in one hit.

Edited May 24, 2017 by aligatorno

[Heckzu]

25 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

It is NOWHERE CLOSE to Destreza, miles behind in fact.

Endura is Mastery fodder and here is why:

The thing that separates Rapiers from other weapons is Vulpine Mask, their stance. This stance generates many slash procs in its combos naturally. Slash procs deal finisher damage, thus ignore armor. Slash procs deal many times more damage when you crit, or even red crit. Due to the very nice base damage, superior speed, and nice crit chance, Destreza is capable of not only stacking more slash procs in quick succession, but its crit % allows said procs to do very nice amounts of damage and scale incredibly well with Blood Rush. The Endura, on the other hand, has a very small amount of crit chance and isn't able to abuse how great of a stance Vulpine Mask is nor does its damage hold up well due to poor scaling caused by a lack of crit.

And here's why you're COMPLETELY wrong:

Crit slashes receive the same crit bonus the weapon has. With a Destreza that has Blood Rush and Organ Shatter, you'll have a 3.8x crit multiplier with a 119% crit chance at 3.0x combo counter or 135.5% crit chance at 3.5x combo counter. This means that at 3.0x combo counter, 4/5 of your attacks will yellow crit for 3.8x damage, and 1/5 of the time your attacks will red crit for 7.6x damage. At 3.5x combo counter, 2/3 of your attacks will yellow crit for 3.8x damage and 1/3 of your attacks will red crit for 7.6x damage.

So your crit build will have 3.8x~7.6x damage slash procs. How many status effects does Condition Overload need to reach 7.6x damage? Log_1.67.6 = 4.3, rounded up to 5. With Endura's high puncture and guaranteed slash procs from the stance, you can reliably proc 2 IPS statuses, in addition to 2 from elemental damage types on your weapon from mods. With a 5th proc, such as a cold proc from Artax, Saryn's Spore, Ember's World on Fire, etc., Endura's slash procs will consistently outdamage Destreza's. And it's not hard to obtain 5 procs because the Endura can reach over 100% status chance at 2.5x combo counter with Drifting Contact, Weeping Wounds, and a single elemental + status mod.

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Heckzu said:

And here's why you're COMPLETELY wrong:

Crit slashes receive the same crit bonus the weapon has. With a Destreza that has Blood Rush and Organ Shatter, you'll have a 3.8x crit multiplier with a 119% crit chance at 3.0x combo counter or 135.5% crit chance at 3.5x combo counter. This means that at 3.0x combo counter, 4/5 of your attacks will yellow crit for 3.8x damage, and 1/5 of the time your attacks will red crit for 7.6x damage. At 3.5x combo counter, 2/3 of your attacks will yellow crit for 3.8x damage and 1/3 of your attacks will red crit for 7.6x damage.

So your crit build will have 3.8x~7.6x damage slash procs. How many status effects does Condition Overload need to reach 7.6x damage? Log_1.67.6 = 4.3, rounded up to 5. With Endura's high puncture and guaranteed slash procs from the stance, you can reliably proc 2 IPS statuses, in addition to 2 from elemental damage types on your weapon from mods. With a 5th proc, such as a cold proc from Artax, Saryn's Spore, Ember's World on Fire, etc., Endura's slash procs will consistently outdamage Destreza's. And it's not hard to obtain 5 procs because the Endura can reach over 100% status chance at 2.5x combo counter with Drifting Contact, Weeping Wounds, and a single elemental + status mod.

Prior to you posting this I changed my comment. I'm going to read over your post and reply in kind.

[aligatorno]

7 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

-snip-

Pretty much this. Condition overload simply puts it way above Destreza in terms of damage . 

Edited May 24, 2017 by aligatorno

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, Heckzu said:

And here's why you're COMPLETELY wrong:

Crit slashes receive the same crit bonus the weapon has. With a Destreza that has Blood Rush and Organ Shatter, you'll have a 3.8x crit multiplier with a 119% crit chance at 3.0x combo counter or 135.5% crit chance at 3.5x combo counter. This means that at 3.0x combo counter, 4/5 of your attacks will yellow crit for 3.8x damage, and 1/5 of the time your attacks will red crit for 7.6x damage. At 3.5x combo counter, 2/3 of your attacks will yellow crit for 3.8x damage and 1/3 of your attacks will red crit for 7.6x damage.

So your crit build will have 3.8x~7.6x damage slash procs. How many status effects does Condition Overload need to reach 7.6x damage? Log_1.67.6 = 4.3, rounded up to 5. With Endura's high puncture and guaranteed slash procs from the stance, you can reliably proc 2 IPS statuses, in addition to 2 from elemental damage types on your weapon from mods. With a 5th proc, such as a cold proc from Artax, Saryn's Spore, Ember's World on Fire, etc., Endura's slash procs will consistently outdamage Destreza's. And it's not hard to obtain 5 procs because the Endura can reach over 100% status chance at 2.5x combo counter with Drifting Contact, Weeping Wounds, and a single elemental + status mod.

Which is why I changed my post. I did some calculations to compare the 2 and Endura is coming out ahead in most situations due to the fact that the other statuses Endura can apply bridges the gap between it and the Destreza and actually places it ahead in many, not all, situations for the early stages of the game.

That said, both weapons are very capable of trashing Sorties. As far as damage potential goes, it depends on player loadout. If your loadout/frames are capable of dropping more statuses on the target (FE, Saryn can apply Viral and Toxin)..... Endura will pull out ahead. If not, Destreza will. Its all about synergy, and I withdraw my previous statement about Destreza being superior in all situations and change my opinion to both weapons thriving in different settings.

[OhTheIrony]

Wait....

Is this real?

Someone just changed their mind.... on the internet?!?!??!?!?

 

In other news, China was taken over by the Czech Republic.

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, OhTheIrony said:

Wait....

Is this real?

Someone just changed their mind.... on the internet?!?!??!?!?

 

In other news, China was taken over by the Czech Republic.

Right? What are civilized adults doing on the Warframe forums?

[Reifnir]

21 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

With Endura's high puncture and guaranteed slash procs from the stance, you can reliably proc 2 IPS statuses, in addition to 2 from elemental damage types on your weapon from mods. With a 5th proc, such as a cold proc from Artax, Saryn's Spore, Ember's World on Fire, etc., Endura's slash procs will consistently outdamage Destreza's. And it's not hard to obtain 5 procs because the Endura can reach over 100% status chance at 2.5x combo counter with Drifting Contact, Weeping Wounds, and a single elemental + status mod.

Only so many mod slots on a weapon, though. You'll want Condition Overload, Weeping Wounds, (Primed) Pressure Point, (Primed) Fury and Drifting Contact. That's five mod slots already. You'll definitely want Viral, so either 60% cold+toxin dualstats to reach 100% status faster or two 90% mods for more damage. Last slot is either Heat or Electricity, neither of which is that powerful and exists solely to power Condition Overload. Not a lot of breathing room, tbh. 

Another thing to consider, where is it supposed to shine, exactly? Relentless Combination+Body Count+Blood Rush Destreza is more than enough to destroy anything up to and including Sortie-level enemies, despite the fact that you're unlikely to reach really high combo counters. And pushing into very long runs way past Sortie levels (especially solo ones) will tip the scale in favor of Destreza, since you can be expected to consistently sit at 4.0 - 4.5x multiplier, pushing into guaranteed red crits with True Steel. 

Mind you, I'm not saying it's bad. It's a viable alternative to Destreza, especially in low combo counter scenarios and if you're willing to put time and multiple Formas in (at least 3 more than Destreza on top whatever your build needs, since you'll need to polarize a stance slot, compensate for the absence of a native V-polarity and spend one to build it in the first place, being a clan tech and all).

Still, seeing how new weapons often come out with unique mechanics (Hirudo, Lesion, Venka Prime, Dark Split Sword, Ohma, Caustacyst - the list goes on) you'd expect something better than just a status sidegrade to an existing crit weapon.