Mag's Final Changes

[row49382]

Hello everyone. I was a naive Tenno and started with Mag pre-rework. Once I learned how to use her as a corpus killing machine it was a lot of fun and I was looking forward to getting her prime variant. Anyway in comes her rework, magnetize is good, polarize is ok and crush is also meh. 

However last week brought some GREAT QoL buffs for her including:

• Moving while casting
• Removing .75 second delay at the end of crush

While I'd even call these buffs to her. I feel she needs two changes to make me say she's PERFECT.

1) Increase her energy pool to 150 or 175. This is for her prime, maybe 125-150 for base. She's a caster and having under 500 energy pool with a primed flow is laughable especially since most builds use QT on her.

2) Have Polarize armor stripping not have diminishing returns. We've seen their change to Oberon with reckoning having this effect. I don't see any issue transferring it over to Mag herself.

Here are a few tests to show polarizes current state:

• On Hydron with 214% PS (Blind rage + Power Drift) and CP aura, you can strip enemy armor successfully in one use till around level 50-60.
• On a Kuva flood with 214% PS and CP aura (no one else at the time using CP either) you can strip a Kuva heavy gunner in 4-5 casts.
• In the Simulacrum with 214% PS and CP aura you can strip armor off 5 corrupted bombards at level 50 in the 2-3 cast, 80 in 4-5 casts, 100 in 6-7 casts.
• In the Simulacrum with 249% PS (Blind rage + Power drift + Transient Fortitude) and CP aura you can strip armor off 5 corrupted bombards at level 50 in 1 cast, 80 in 2-3 casts, 100 in 4-5 casts.
• If you are using Mag's crush augment with 249% PS and CP aura you can strip armor off 5 corrupted bombards at level 80 in 1 cast crush, 1-2 cast polarize, 100 in 1 cast crush and 2-3 casts polarize. (I wouldn't use this augment personally except in a max range CC build on interception for just the immobility).

I would like to have polarize strip armor in 1-2 casts at 249% PS at all levels. 

TLDR; Give Mag increased energy pool and change armor stripping on polarize to not have diminishing returns and I'll be happy. Thoughts?

Edited May 28, 2017 by row49382

[-CM-Zenshadow]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Oberon's armor debuff is weaker than Mag's is currently. Oberon's not having diminishing returns is okay (because it is weaker), but for a stronger armor reduction, not having diminishing returns could make it somewhat overpowered at higher levels. 

But I do agree with the energy pool - as a caster frame, it needs energy to use its skills.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Dont forget mag has a unique ability Pull, that have a decent chance of energy orb drop of 1 in 4 kills.

Edited May 28, 2017 by (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson

[AgentEntropy]

6 minutes ago, ZenshadowOfZramx said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Oberon's armor debuff is weaker than Mag's is currently. Oberon's not having diminishing returns is okay (because it is weaker), but for a stronger armor reduction, not having diminishing returns could make it somewhat overpowered at higher levels. 

But I do agree with the energy pool - as a caster frame, it needs energy to use its skills.

Polarize can't compete with Oberon's armor stripping past a certain level. Oberon needs two casts to strip any level enemy's armor, since it's percentage based. Polarize is a flat amount which can shred armor off low level enemies, but requires numerous casts to rip the armor off level 100-145+ enemies.

[-CM-Zenshadow]

Just now, AgentEntropy said:

Polarize can't compete with Oberon's armor stripping past a certain level. Oberon needs two casts to strip any level enemy's armor, since it's percentage based. Polarize is a flat amount which can shred armor off low level enemies, but requires numerous casts to rip the armor off level 100-145+ enemies.

Oh shoot

Clearly, I underestimated Oberon's armor strip. I guess I'll be using him a lot more (when his prime drops, that is) :P

[SenorClipClop]

41 minutes ago, row49382 said:

Increase her energy pool to 150 or 175. This is for her prime, maybe 125-150 for base. She's a caster and having under 500 energy pool with a primed flow is laughable especially since most builds use QT on her.

Yes. I don't use QT on her, but a higher energy pool would be very, very good.

42 minutes ago, row49382 said:

Have Polarize armor stripping not have diminishing returns. We've seen their change to Oberon with reckoning having this effect. I don't see any issue transferring it over to Mag herself.

Here I'm gonna have to disagree, because Polarize doesn't have diminishing returns. It's not percentage-based, it's flat damage to Shields and Armor. Polarize doesn't need to strip ludicrous levels of Armor into high levels, just weakening it is fine and dandy. Her massive damage from Magnetize is more than enough compensation for this. Furthermore, Polarize already does two other things on top of the damage and debuff (ally shiled restore and primes more damage for Magnetize), so I'm totally okay with Polarize taking on that late-game switch that Overload and WoF have.

[row49382]

14 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Yes. I don't use QT on her, but a higher energy pool would be very, very good.

Here I'm gonna have to disagree, because Polarize doesn't have diminishing returns. It's not percentage-based, it's flat damage to Shields and Armor. Polarize doesn't need to strip ludicrous levels of Armor into high levels, just weakening it is fine and dandy. Her massive damage from Magnetize is more than enough compensation for this. Furthermore, Polarize already does two other things on top of the damage and debuff (ally shiled restore and primes more damage for Magnetize), so I'm totally okay with Polarize taking on that late-game switch that Overload and WoF have.

Sorry I used the term "diminishing returns" loosely. I would like it to factor in PS as a % of max armor lost -- perhaps while inflicted with a magnetic proc and give her 1,2 and 4 increased proc chance with Ps similar to ember with WoF -- similar to how Oberon has changed. This will still let polarize be alright on its own but doesn't force synergy between  abilities as you can always use a weapon modded for magnetic instead.

these are just my thoughts, please criticize as need be.

[row49382]

38 minutes ago, ZenshadowOfZramx said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Oberon's armor debuff is weaker than Mag's is currently. Oberon's not having diminishing returns is okay (because it is weaker), but for a stronger armor reduction, not having diminishing returns could make it somewhat overpowered at higher levels. 

But I do agree with the energy pool - as a caster frame, it needs energy to use its skills.

IIRC Oberon at the 214% PS can strip A level 145 corrupted bombards armor in two reckonings under the effect of hallowed ground while Mag takes about 6-7 of polarize.

[row49382]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Dont forget mag has a unique ability Pull, that have a decent chance of energy orb drop of 1 in 4 kills.

Yes the energy thing is BS but I honestly think it should just be a pull ability that rag dolls as it does with no secondary effect. I use it consistently for pulling enemies into a magnetize bubble.

[AgentEntropy]

2 minutes ago, row49382 said:

IIRC Oberon at the 214% PS can strip A level 145 corrupted bombards armor in two reckonings under the effect of hallowed ground while Mag takes about 6-7 of polarize.

You are correct. Additionally, this stacks with Corrosive Projection, so even just a squad of 2 can reduce that to a single cast of Reckoning. 150% Power Strength places him at 45% armor removal, and even just two Corrosive Projections will cause that to be a total strip in a single cast.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

3 minutes ago, row49382 said:

Yes the energy thing is BS but I honestly think it should just be a pull ability that rag dolls as it does with no secondary effect. I use it consistently for pulling enemies into a magnetize bubble.

Just double checked in game ui on pull ps4, as well as wikia. Pull has increased chance of droping energy orb on kill.

[Iucifier]

Im game to make all armor stripping the same on all frames make it like oberon or make oberon like mags and listen to the winning from oberon players. Mag has been turned in to a resource farming tool. Make her a viable end game frame again

Edited June 1, 2017 by Iucifier
Spelling

[vimvi]

I never never never use mag again 

hate DE fuc

[MagPrime]

On 5/28/2017 at 11:28 AM, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Just double checked in game ui on pull ps4, as well as wikia. Pull has increased chance of droping energy orb on kill.

Pull rarely kills in higher levels, making that secondary feature rather pointless outside of the new player experience.

Unless you put a lot of dedication into timing your damage abilities so that Pull gets the last shot but still.  Not really worth the effort.

OP, I would really like to see Mag's energy pool get an increase.  Your Polarize suggestion is interesting but SeniorClip pretty much covered the response.

[P0Pz]

On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 7:01 PM, row49382 said:

Hello everyone. I was a naive Tenno and started with Mag pre-rework. Once I learned how to use her as a corpus killing machine it was a lot of fun and I was looking forward to getting her prime variant. Anyway in comes her rework, magnetize is good, polarize is ok and crush is also meh. 

However last week brought some GREAT QoL buffs for her including:

• Moving while casting
• Removing .75 second delay at the end of crush

While I'd even call these buffs to her. I feel she needs two changes to make me say she's PERFECT.

1) Increase her energy pool to 150 or 175. This is for her prime, maybe 125-150 for base. She's a caster and having under 500 energy pool with a primed flow is laughable especially since most builds use QT on her.

✔

On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 7:01 PM, row49382 said:

2) Have Polarize armor stripping not have diminishing returns. We've seen their change to Oberon with reckoning having this effect. I don't see any issue transferring it over to Mag herself.

Here are a few tests to show polarizes current state:

• On Hydron with 214% PS (Blind rage + Power Drift) and CP aura, you can strip enemy armor successfully in one use till around level 50-60.
• On a Kuva flood with 214% PS and CP aura (no one else at the time using CP either) you can strip a Kuva heavy gunner in 4-5 casts.
• In the Simulacrum with 214% PS and CP aura you can strip armor off 5 corrupted bombards at level 50 in the 2-3 cast, 80 in 4-5 casts, 100 in 6-7 casts.
• In the Simulacrum with 249% PS (Blind rage + Power drift + Transient Fortitude) and CP aura you can strip armor off 5 corrupted bombards at level 50 in 1 cast, 80 in 2-3 casts, 100 in 4-5 casts.
• If you are using Mag's crush augment with 249% PS and CP aura you can strip armor off 5 corrupted bombards at level 80 in 1 cast crush, 1-2 cast polarize, 100 in 1 cast crush and 2-3 casts polarize. (I wouldn't use this augment personally except in a max range CC build on interception for just the immobility).

I would like to have polarize strip armor in 1-2 casts at 249% PS at all levels. 

TLDR; Give Mag increased energy pool and change armor stripping on polarize to not have diminishing returns and I'll be happy. Thoughts?

For the armor striping part...

Vs Oberon...

Did you compared Mag's 2 energy use once, throwing 2 pox with Corrosive in with 100% status? Duration 15+sec? Up to 4 bubbles at the same time? Each 15m radius? 

Stripping 145 Corrupted Bombard armor INSTA ?

AND on top traps targets/ damaging them with theire own source of power and yours in endless flying arround shots/ procing like there is no tomorrow/ critting like there is no tomorrow/ detonation in end to @*^/$ anyone within the AoE/ The cherry on top: none range atack can hit ya standing inside the bubble only melee hits, which gets blown away by corro + blast 100% status Pox... 🤔

Your 2 is secure vs enemie punch-trough in and from outside. 

Forget oberons lil armor debuff and buff. Nothing scals better then mags 2 here in the end. Before he debuffs all to 0 ... i have 3 bubbles up (45meter) and all are debuffing to 0 armor insta...and continue to do so for 15 sec while killing/traping....

😎 to strip armor, use Mags 2 and pox or a weapon you like with high status.

I use: Pox/ Torid/ Mios/ Shade or Adarza Kavat.

Polarize is great already, with the incoming shield-gating what ya want more? 😉

----

More energy pool ✔

[Vance.Stubbs]

Polarize needs to scale. Not as crazy as it used to, but at least 10% of shields/armor per shard, affected by power strengh + basic armor strip. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Vance.Stubbs

[P0Pz]

6 minutes ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

Polarize needs to scale. Not as crazy as it used to, but at least 10% of shields/armor per shard, affected by power strengh. 

Okay agree, but per cast !

The max limit i would say is -15% armor/Shields or like you said -10%.

Why? 

Bc its already a -30% or -20% deff stats debuff which pps tend to overlook.

Edited June 2, 2017 by P0Pz

[Vance.Stubbs]

Just now, P0Pz said:

Okay agree! The max limit i would say is -15% armor/Shields or like you said -10%.

Why? 

Bc its already a -30% or -20% deff stats debuff which pps tend to overlook.

I really don't feel like having a mandatory high status weapon to make Warframe scale better is a good idea. 

[P0Pz]

@Vance.Stubbs

U talk about her 2 and the armor stripping with a weapon like pox?

Buddy, Mags 2 is a high scaling skill with shots/bullets from weapons while offering a lot other stuff. It is used to be used to scale up with shots.

Its like a waaay bigger version from Nova Ballz 😉 but without a dmg storing limit while offering way more then just damage.

Her 3 is a support skill. Main focus to refresh shields from your frame and ALL team-members touched by the puls. Gives more dmg to her 2 as well. And On top gives ya a bit debuffing as well in a 80m radius (high duration).

With the incoming shield-gating it will work kinda like a Caster-Healer. On top with her 2 beeing THE swizz-Taschenmesser. Her 2+3 are then REALY realy strong.

- i am all in for a switch from fix number debuffing to % debuffing as long it will not be to much, for that range, for all the great stuff it offers already within her 3.  Just a bit affraid to get a tradeoff somewhere just to be able debuffing a bit better while 2 already does the job INSTA.

[Vance.Stubbs]

2 minutes ago, P0Pz said:

@Vance.Stubbs

U talk about her 2 and the armor stripping with a weapon like pox?

Buddy, Mags 2 is a high scaling skill with shots/bullets from weapons while offering a lot other stuff. It is used to be used to scale up with shots.

Its like a waaay bigger version from Nova Ballz 😉 but without a dmg storing limit while offering way more then just damage.

Her 3 is a support skill. Main focus to refresh shields from your frame and ALL team-members touched by the puls. Gives more dmg to her 2 as well. And On top gives ya a bit debuffing as well in a 80m radius (high duration).

With the incoming shield-gating it will work kinda like a Caster-Healer. On top with her 2 beeing THE swizz-Taschenmesser. Her 2+3 are then REALY realy strong.

- i am all in for a switch from fix number debuffing to % debuffing as long it will not be to much, for that range, for all the great stuff it offers already within her 3.  Just a bit affraid to get a tradeoff somewhere just to be able debuffing a bit better while 2 already does the job INSTA.

I see. 

Not saying that she is in a bad spot or anything right now, but I still think a small scalling of her 3 skill would be very welcomed, especially since new and rebalanced Warframes rely on persantage based abilities combined with base damage.

[P0Pz]

2 minutes ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

I see. 

Not saying that she is in a bad spot or anything right now, but I still think a small scalling of her 3 skill would be very welcomed, especially since new and rebalanced Warframes rely on persantage based abilities combined with base damage.

I see your point and absolut agree until a certain linie is reached. As above mentioned up to -15% armor/shield debuff (which no other frame got) and the truth beeing -15% Armor & -15% Shields would be a straight -30% Deff-Stats debuff in one go in a 80meter radius. Better then now but not overpowered or to strong. While, like her kit, is flexible in use since it can debuff all deff-stats from targets. Hope ya get my point.

Would love to play with ya later if you like. 

For the "Armor Debuffing" with her 2...this video explains perfect all.

 

 

[row49382]

On 6/2/2017 at 3:23 AM, P0Pz said:

✔

For the armor striping part...

Vs Oberon...

Did you compared Mag's 2 energy use once, throwing 2 pox with Corrosive in with 100% status? Duration 15+sec? Up to 4 bubbles at the same time? Each 15m radius? 

Stripping 145 Corrupted Bombard armor INSTA ?

AND on top traps targets/ damaging them with theire own source of power and yours in endless flying arround shots/ procing like there is no tomorrow/ critting like there is no tomorrow/ detonation in end to @*^/$ anyone within the AoE/ The cherry on top: none range atack can hit ya standing inside the bubble only melee hits, which gets blown away by corro + blast 100% status Pox... 🤔

Your 2 is secure vs enemie punch-trough in and from outside. 

Forget oberons lil armor debuff and buff. Nothing scals better then mags 2 here in the end. Before he debuffs all to 0 ... i have 3 bubbles up (45meter) and all are debuffing to 0 armor insta...and continue to do so for 15 sec while killing/traping....

😎 to strip armor, use Mags 2 and pox or a weapon you like with high status.

I use: Pox/ Torid/ Mios/ Shade or Adarza Kavat.

Polarize is great already, with the incoming shield-gating what ya want more? 😉

----

More energy pool ✔

Thanks for the input. I have an issue with saying her 2 is good (which is true) and strips any enemies in a  Small bubble with a specific weapon under these conditions. WAY too many floating variables there snd it's not a global strip as it should be. I don't really care about damage at this point, support is what Mag is supposed to be as her description says.

Albeit, her 2 does F*** loads of damage, which is where I'm ok if the damage stops there.

also: sorry for late response I haven't been on the forums in awhile :P

[nameomnz]

On 20/6/2560 at 9:37 PM, row49382 said:

Thanks for the input. I have an issue with saying her 2 is good (which is true) and strips any enemies in a  Small bubble with a specific weapon under these conditions. WAY too many floating variables there snd it's not a global strip as it should be. I don't really care about damage at this point, support is what Mag is supposed to be as her description says.

Albeit, her 2 does F*** loads of damage, which is where I'm ok if the damage stops there.

also: sorry for late response I haven't been on the forums in awhile :P

Then DE have to rework volt to be a dps frame or just change volt's and mag's description.

[yles9056]

On 2017-5-29 at 1:39 AM, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Dont forget mag has a unique ability Pull, that have a decent chance of energy orb drop of 1 in 4 kills.

But it's hard to kill enemy with Pull at higher level.

[Windy_Wind]

I seriously would  like to add the fact that her passive is utterly weak and useless in most cases. I really want her passive to be changed into something like this:

"As long as mag's shield is up, her shield will block all incoming status effects (except for knock down)"

This should help her survive better by avoiding toxin and bleed proc and other things. With Shield Gating coming soon TM, I think it would be a very useful passive for her to have.