The problem with the system of the conclave + solution

[Angelic-Guardian]

The conclave need a better system for matching players because if it can be fair then many players will play in PvP if they want something different than PvE. The current system is unfair because you will most likely match up with tougher opponents after getting your conclave rank to 3. The conclave is like riven modes to me because riven modes use a circular system where you might need to keep using kuva until you get what you want but you can still use kuva to roll the riven mod. It is because a riven mod don't need additional content. You can keep playing with that riven mod if you want. Compared to that a normal mod can be maxed out and then you will move on to another content. If you still don't understand me, then imagine that you got two new games, one is PvP and one is PvE. Which one will you finish first?

And because the current PvP system isn't fair, less players are playing PvP. It is not because of the rewards.

Here is the system that i would like to see in warframe PvP.

Players get points if they win and lose some if they lose the match. The more points you have the better the rewards ( like mods/ credits / reputation ) you will get. Don't tell me the system where it is based on your conclave rank, which isn't fairly divided, is fair or fine because one can get somehow to one of the highest ranks in conclave and still don't have the necessary experience to face those who are on the same rank as he is

When you want to play, you will match up with people who have almost the same number of points that you have. If you get invited by others, you will be match with players that have almost the same points as the one with the highest points in your rank. This way players who are very experienced can't be matched with players that just started conclave.

For implantation the current matching condition for players with lvl 2 or below should be removed and made that if you are rank 2 then you will start collecting conclave points. Also each player who already have a specific rank above 2 should get some points.

for rank 3 => 1000

for rank 4 => 1500

for rank 5 => 2000

for rank 6 => 2500

You will be match with players who are with the 500 points, e.g. if you are above 1500 points then you will play with players who have between 1500 and 2000 points.

Players who just came from a break or who left the PvP and then return will probably lose some points because they lost some of the experience that they had which they will regain after playing with players who are less difficult.

If you have questions about this system, write them in a comment so that i may edit the system design or explain things that i forgot to mention. Every comment counts.

Thank you for reading. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by majdwisam

[Nazrethim]

So, basically like the Arena system WoW used in WotLK, which iirc s*cked for everyone who didn't win every single match. You would get 10 to 25 points per victory and lose 100 to 150 per defeat, which was bonkers, specially considering the best gear required a certain amount of score to be available (which meant players who won more matches were getting better gear than the ones losing it, which kept the things pretty much where they stood).

To me the only change that we could use right now is to make people with a certain number of kills or matches completed no longer eligible for Recruit Conditioning. It has been a common advice for new or inexperienced players to stay within RC until they can hone their skills and get the low rank needed mods before advancing. Making a beeline for the Typhoon often results in a lot of frustration. Granted, you can actually get to Typhoon with starting equipment and no mods and still do fine.

We could use a warning when trying to upgrade from Rank 2 to Rank 3 saying "If you move to the next Rank Recruit Conditioning will be disabled permanently, are you sure?"

[Angelic-Guardian]

what about the players who left pvp because they can't do anything and want to play it again/ forced to play it again? I want to play pvp again but the game just doesn't encourage me to play pvp since i will keep losing. since it discourages players i match up with those who are like me, have no idea how to face the other players, or i get matched up with those who are more skilled then i am. i can understand how the current system balancing works but my point is that the conclave balancing system needs a change. and about the gear/ rewards, if you keep winning then you will eventually get every skin and mod for the conclave and if you go further you will be able to buy and sell some of those mods and since you are getting more experience as you gain points, you will probably be able to overthrow the ones on top even if they have more mods, which doesn't give that much advantage.

[Eligitine]

I stopped playing because every game I get stomped and focused by players who go 20-1 or 25-3. That and it seems balance is #*($%%@ and doesn't seem to be getting any better.

[Nighttide77]

Pubstomping is certainly an issue, though I don't see how this system would keep the pubstompers away from casuals.

Also have to keep in mind that there are pro's who create alt accounts just to play in the newbie arenas. Winning also only requires that you collect oro, so a pro that doesn't want to win just needs to keep killing.

Tbh, I feel like we need new modes or modifiers that make winning either require different skills (instead of having to expert shoot, have to attack/defend or something), or make it so that the more you are winning the harder it is to stay on top (like the more oro you collect, the heavier you become and harder to move so easily...maybe also drop all oro on death).

[Eligitine]

Having health/shields decay the more oro you get, like in the index could be an interesting way to prevent snowballing.

[Witchydragon]

1 minute ago, Eligitine said:

Having health/shields decay the more oro you get, like in the index could be an interesting way to prevent snowballing.

Players are already incentivized to kill players on killstreaks via an XP bonus. It is typically in the losing players' best interests to focus the leading player down. 

Literally being punished for winning would make winning matches more about luck than effort. What happens when a bad player gets a few lucky kills? Everyone else has an easier time dominating them for the rest of the match. What happens when everyone has equal kill counts? TTK is lowered significantly, and everyone's going to be encouraged to run away or die. What happens in a normal match? TTK varies dramatically, and weapon balance goes out the window. Sure, when the top player is instagibbed on sight it'll make it harder to end matches in 6 minutes, but they'll still probably win the match when other people catch up to his/her score and die just as quickly.

Alternatively, there could be a skill based matchmaking system. Or have forced RC graduation and some actually hard challenge players need to pass before being able to rank up in order to keep the overly-eager-to-get-them-cosmetics players from leaving RC when they aren't ready.

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, Witchydragon said:

Alternatively, there could be a skill based matchmaking system. Or have forced RC graduation and some actually hard challenge players need to pass before being able to rank up in order to keep the overly-eager-to-get-them-cosmetics players from leaving RC when they aren't ready.

Qualification challenges, that sounds really good.

[Dreamforger]

13 hours ago, Eligitine said:

I stopped playing because every game I get stomped and focused by players who go 20-1 or 25-3. That and it seems balance is #*($%%@ and doesn't seem to be getting any better.

I have been on both sides, there is a learning curve, but not that steep tbh. But I see alot of player sjust equipping melee and slam randomly while bulletjumping, or players equipping a machine gun and spray and pray... Very easy targets tbh :) And funny how they do not change their playstyle.. Have been against good players though, and that is very fun :D

On a sidenote, I am a noob at conclave, but just very patient ;) Not camping, but just do not rush towards the enemy, without taking cover  or anything.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Dreamforger

[Nazrethim]

5 hours ago, Dreamforger said:

I have been on both sides, there is a learning curve, but not that steep tbh. But I see alot of player sjust equipping melee and slam randomly while bulletjumping, or players equipping a machine gun and spray and pray... Very easy targets tbh :) And funny how they do not change their playstyle.. Have been against good players though, and that is very fun :D

On a sidenote, I am a noob at conclave, but just very patient ;) Not camping, but just do not rush towards the enemy, without taking cover  or anything.

"Patience, if a fisherman wants a fish, he needs patience"

Just the fact you take the time to study your opponents fighting style and being careful makes you no longer a noob. Unskilled maybe, but definetly not a noob. Good job :3

[Dreamforger]

49 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

"Patience, if a fisherman wants a fish, he needs patience"

Just the fact you take the time to study your opponents fighting style and being careful makes you no longer a noob. Unskilled maybe, but definetly not a noob. Good job :3

haha thx, unskilled then :D But I find it more fun to lure people, like standing with the back, watching them creep closer, just to turn around and shoot them.. Or just slowly getting closer, while they waste ammo on missing :D

The rush in and die, or random hitting around you with melee don't seem fun at all...

[Matoro_Zeliph]

There needs to be a server browser along with match making. 

[(PSN)Darkened_Seraph]

I think there should be some type of practice mode to help with skills and figuring out what works and doesn't work, sense pvp has some differences than pve.

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, (PS4)cnemesis03 said:

I think there should be some type of practice mode to help with skills and figuring out what works and doesn't work, sense pvp has some differences than pve.

Well, Recruit Conditioning is supposed to be that.

You can also head to the Conclave PhP subforum, everything you need to know has been posted there by players in different threads. There's also the "Visual Guides" videos (among others) made by the channel creatively named "WarframePvP" on youtube which provide excellent tips.