The Second Stream Podcast #15 - Devstream 93 and Design Council Topics, including Trials, Wukong, and more!

[[DE]Taylor]

For this episode of the Second Stream Podcast, we tried something new. Our Design Council Tenno were gracious enough to send us the topics they wanted to hear about the most. 
 
Join [DE]Rebecca and FrozenBallz for Episode 15 as they discuss Devstream 93, Trials, Wukong and more! We’d love to hear your opinion on the community topics this week, so be sure to share your thoughts in the comments and in our poll.
 
GUESTS:
FrozenBallz: twitch.tv/frozenbawz
 
TOPIC CREDITS:
@(PS4)LiamRising
@Gorila_Azul

[Bizzaro21]

my problem with trials is that they are one time tricks, once you've done them and figured it out it's boring, plus the absence of guidance to what we should do, I prefer knowing what to do, but getting stuck doing it because it's hard or well plotted, than getting stuck on what to do, and doing it easily once I've figured it

I enjoyed them for a while, but not anymore, also the community is largely not welcoming towards a player that hasn't got experience on it, I'm not saying all, but most of the squads I see or have been in want experienced players only, and are not quite nice if they take an inexperienced one

[CroqueMortTime]

My problem with trials is that I play solo...

I know it is a coop game, but either by choice or because of crappy net there are quite a few solo players, and trials are mechanically the only part of the game solo players can't access... (excluding pvp of course)

Note: I am okay with that, there are plenty of other things to do in WF... just pointing it out...

[letir]

I really want to see Canadian Hockey Warframe.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

1. Next Warframe Theme - No real comment
2.  Wukong - Rarely use. He is as "agile" as a snail. Please increase his movement speed. I don't think any future warframe should have default speed less than 1. Also, his skillset is boring.
   • His 1 is meh but expected for a one.
   • His 2 is bread and butter.
   • His 3 is too slow to be rarely useful except in very specific situation.
   • His 4 is "lackluster".
3. DE decide 3 is not a number
4. Zephyr - she needs more love.
   • Her 1 and 2 need to be combine and travel distance is determine by how long we hold the power button (more controllable).
   • Her 3 is good.
   • Her 4 need tweaking. Maybe scale with number of enemies picked up. More enemies/objects = more collisions = more damage.
5. Trial - Can do all of them with my eyes close. Can do all of them with 2 people (but force to need 4 to start)
6. Why Do Trial? -
   • LoR = Uncommon Arcanes (rarest);
   • NM LoR - for the speedrun; 
   • JV - Energize
7. Enjoyment doing Trial? - Not really, but it's the "most fun" aspect of Warframe currently. After switching to the Relics system, I don't enjoy playing as much. I still like endless but a small number of my friends will not do endless unless there are rewards. This equate to running endless by myself which means it's not fun.
   • Basically, Trials are the last thing in Warframe that people want to run as a squad. I do it for fun. Other do it for rewards. Trials are the last bastion of fun for me. Once people stop caring about Arcanes, there go Warframe for me. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by (PS4)A_SimpleName

[Wrum]

1. non of those really feel right for the concept art but i have no idea what it would be.

3. ive only seen zepher once in the last 3 months and i cant remember the last time i saw an atlas.

so far as trials go i haven't gotten a group together for them yet.

[shadow0727]

4. Hydroid gets alot of hate from the community and his abilities re really lack-luster

[NightmareT12]

1. Thought it was a gladiator, honestly. I could see the mirror theme though.

2. Rarely use Wukong. I just don't like the lack of combos when using his 4 -- I'd rather have the whole stick work a bit differently, honestly.

4. I think Zephyr and Hydroid. You barely see them, unless it's for a really special thing (pilfering swarm Hydroid). Thankfully, both are getting gilded versions up next, so we should be able to get some new love!

Trials I can't speak of, only participated in one. I'd be interested in doing more for the rewards, honestly.

BTW Taylor, I think you've missed a question or have numbered them wrong. The poll jumps from 2 to 4! :P

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

metal frame ..need metal elemental ...

[(PSN)SuperRaySonic]

I don't enjoy trails because finding a squad for me is hard because I have no friends that play this game :( 

[Kinetos]

Trials, not interested in playing a mode that forces multi-player and has lore locked behind multi-player, is puzzle based but expects more than one completion, and has such a barrier to entry as players only want experienced players to go with them, and "experienced" means "copied a build from YouTube, watched the puzzle solved on youtube and then cheesed it once or twice". My network hasn't been good lately and I don't do recruiting. Pub or Solo.

Wukong, past lvl 30, never playing him. He's boring and his immortality is unnecessary.

Zephyr and Hydroid need the next reworks, Excalibur style, major changes. Enough people have mentioned specifics and have more invested in the frames that I'll pass on mentioning any specifics.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

problem with trials it can be easy to a point its boring , or so frustrating due t lag, bad team work, or network issue that it becomes a chore thats not fun 

[Zendadaist]

About warframes being ignored by the community - none of the above. They are all talked about by the community, usually with respect to how beind, or boring, or neglected, or difficult to acquire they are. The one that seems not to get mentioned much if at all is... Wukong.

 

Edit: Forgot to add - there is no 3

Edited May 31, 2017 by Zendadaist

[Xekrin]

I haven't listened to it yet, so I don't know, but I really hope continuous beam weapons is at the very least mentioned somewhere in this podcast.

 

---

Nope, oh well. *sigh*

Edited May 31, 2017 by Xekrin

[(PSN)oddessy20]

I don't play trials so the only other comment I have is on Wukong. 

I get that there are upper levels of Warframe in which people can judge a set of abilities differently than I. I play survivals and Defense missions for the most part. My experience throughout the game is rather low, I've only been playing a year. But the moment I saw Wukong on the market, I bought him. First frame, pretty much ignoring Excalibur. He's now my most used frame by 10% or more, and he's been forma'd the most. I enjoy the hell out of him. 

Iron staff: My kubrow does the finisher moves, or I come in for the kill with, oh, Sydon. Murder everywhere. 
Defy: nuff said. Essentially I deign not to die. 
Cloudwalker: those status effects DID suck. 
Primal fury: everything dies. All of it. 

The comments made on Wukong almost allude to  an elitist attitude. As if because he doesn't aoe everything dead, or heal everyone everywhere, or buff the group...he's no good. I couldn't disagree more. There are a near infinite amount of MMO's out there that have the class that doesn't do anything but damage and survive. Wukong is that Frame. He doesn't have a crowd pleasing, all encompassing kit that addresses all aspects of gameplay that is Warframe, sure. But his theme is accurately based on the legend of the Monkey King and while I won't say there isn't room for improvement of his abilities, acting as if the abilities he has now are useless is dismissive at best. Just last night I rocked an hour for funsies pretty much perma-casting Primal Fury. I was giggling the whole time. DE doesn't need to cater to the "make me have fun" crowd. 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Zephyr is being ignored because half of her abilities(Tailwind and Divebomb) are glorified versions of bulletjumping and ground slamming, do little to no damage, have no other benefit that aids general or stealth combat, and her only major skill that is helpful for the team she somewhat excels at is crowd are tanking, something that's largely unnecessary in this game.

Trails I refuse to do because I'm a solo player at heart and only play on public if I feel like I want to socialize. Being forced into teamwork instead of it just being beneficial for me is the antithesis of fun. Oh, and I voted "Yes" on the "Do you play trails" question, only because I technically did when my friends asked me to. I've done less then 10, all of them being LoR a only one of those being a Nightmare. So I don't play them in practice.

Edited May 31, 2017 by AuroraSonicBoom

[(PSN)joshw1400]

I'm not gonna lie, the main reason I picked Zephyr over Hydroid was because most Hydroid players(if there are any) are into that "kinky" color scheme. But both still need some serious reworks. Zephyr only has one good ability, while hydroid is only used for farming. Never seen them anywhere else.

Edited May 31, 2017 by (PS4)joshw1400

[RivaAurelius]

1) Alchemy cuz why not? lol

2) I rarely use Wukong for a few reasons. His first ability, Iron Jab, is just a knockdown on a single target, and has no uniqueness without the use of the augment, Iron Vault. Wukong is a fierce warrior with the heart of a trickster. Why not when enemies are hit with Iron Jab, they are tricked by Wukong into assisting him? Similar to Nyx I know, but it would make his first ability more fun to use. His 2 is fairly straight forward and I believe it to be one of the only reasons why the player-base might use him, however Nidus' passive is completely superior to Wukong's Defy. Maybe if every time you were killed while Defy was active, your movement speed and attacks got buffed alongside the invulnerability, It may make Defy more interesting and gratifying to use. For an agile monkey god, Wukong's third ability, Cloud Walker, makes him very slow. While also making him invulnerable, invisible, and giving him the ability to fly, it does very little else. Maybe if the cloud surrounding Wukong proc'd a status effect of some kind and had a radius affected by rage mods, it may be more fun to use, but definitely increase Wukong's movement speed in Cloud Walker. Wukong's fourth ability is again, lacking uniqueness. Just another exalted melee weapon. I have no suggestions to how you could change Iron Staff, but it is like every other exalted melee weapon in game, however Excaliber's Exalted Blade is much more fun to use.

3) DE misses the number three for whatever reason, oh well XD. I believe that while Hydroid needs some work, he is still used to an extent because of his resource boosting capability, but I will rant about that for another time. I believe Atlas may be ignored by the player-base simply because His abilities are not very fun to use most of the time and do not have much synergy. Don't get me wrong, I love screaming "ONE PUNCH" at the top of my lungs while beating the Grineer to pulp, but his whole kit is fairly bland and lackluster. I reckon his first ability is ok, but in my opinion his second ability should be completely redone, no one wants to sit behind a wall in one place until it gets destroyed. Maybe you could still make a wall using his second ability, but using Landslide on the wall converts it into a layer of stone armour that gets stronger the more enemies damage you, as their bullets add to the layer of armour. The armour would be on a time limit or until you recast Atlas' second ability. As more enemy's bullets are added to the stone layer of armour, it will increase the damage of Landslide. You could still use Atlas' second ability to create a wall and recast the ability to turn it into a boulder, but I believe making the ability more adaptive might encourage the player-base to pick up their Atlas again. Ore gaze slows Atlas down too much and does little more than freeze your enemies. What if, rather than freezing the enemies, it turns enemies into stone minions that attack and target other enemies on a timer, when the timer ends, they revert back to their normal state. For each stone minion within a certain range of Atlas, His Landslide gets buffed as well as his armour level. Leave Atlas' ult as it is, but also make it so that if the Rumblers are in range of Atlas, he gets an armour buff and a buff to Landslide. This way his abilities will have more synergy and players will be have the incentive to build for range, duration and strength as well as efficiency if they would like to.

I have no comment on the trials, they are mostly fun if a little tedious at times.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Logan_Burns2

[(PSN)joshw1400]

And what did you mean by "Hockey Frame"?

 

[eversonbarros]

1. Other - because none of the other options seens to fit the concept art. If I would suggest one theme/concept would be werewolf.

2. Rarely - Because he is slow, the first skill is weak, the second one is much more useful of them, the third skill is very slow and little use in general, and the fourth skill seems like a nerfed version of Excalibur.

3. ?????

4. Zephyr, mainly because the way the first e second skills seens to synergizes very well on paper, but using it is not so useful or limited, the third skill is very useful, and the fouth one could receive a boost.

5, 6 and 7. I never did any Trials, because of the full squad obligation, I not enjoy playing with strangers and my squad and clan now have only 3 members who play everyday. I would play mostly because of the rewards, the same reason a I do sorties.

 

Also I would suggest to create some mode that combine various missions types in the same one, with high level (around 100), some random "on the fly" limitation/boost/nerf for players and enemies (randomized after the mission loaded, using some kind of roulette), encouraging player to use frames less used or upping their game with the one that they are used to play.

Edited May 31, 2017 by eversonbarros
Complement the answer for 1, with a suggestion

[(PSN)DarXenon]

Atlas is somewhat an O.K frame, he is hard to farm since it's archwing. 

The first ability is amazing 

The second ability could use some rework, increase the wall size, increase the rolling rock damage and lastly decrease the travel time of the rolling rock to balance damage and decrease the rolling rock travel distance 

The third ability could use a decrease  in the amount of time needed for the enemy to turn to a stone 

 

The fourth ability is alright,i don't have anything else to say about it

This is my own opinion, I am not telling any of you guys what to do, i am thankful for what you guys are doing.

[Darkvramp]

4. all of the above those 4 frames are jokes compared to the rest of the game, witht he exception to nezha, he is actually pretty powerful as a support with his augment, a better support than Oberon was and is now with his halo's damage mitigation vs Oberon pitiful damage reduction. i just wish the augments effect was to refresh what is already cast and affect all allies within affinity range, that's how i wish a lot of buffs works, within affinity range, so i know if someone is in range or not.

[._.-._.]

1. i got some, which one do you want (apart from the aforementioned themes): time frame (no not the limbo, but instead real like time controling), plague frame (likes to spread viruses to weaken enemies, doing something nasty or disgusting to kill them by a sweet plagues), troll frame (likes to troll enemies to be set up), radiation frame (loves nukes, everything causes radiation), gas frame ('fogging' all the time), corrosive frame (loves everything corrosive, maybe likes acid baths, or so on), blast frame (likes EXPLOSIVES, A LOT)

2. rarely, no comment

3. uere's number 3?

4. do you have any other ideas about this wind frame's ability?

6. is it wrong to take such experience?

Edited May 31, 2017 by Primbone

[MrCochonDainde]

I don't really enjoy trials, mainly because i play in solo and it's hard to find nice people to do them but i need to do them to loot arcanes, i'd enjoy if we could loot arcanes by other ways.

[Darkvramp]

Also the questions asked about raids are entirely misleading that dont actually ask what their problem is, its not that they are hard it is that the mechanics that are used are unique without any other way to learn what to do. we have a hijack and infested salvage to teach us an extremely basic version of he mechanics in the raids. there needs to be more than that, and the mechanics need to be expanded, like bringing in standing on the pads for those who are in a team in a hijack mission. Infested salvage could make use of the intractable consoles to do something when the bubble uncovers them. And there needs to be a proper LFG system for raids, that seems like a no brainer