The Second Stream Podcast #15 - Devstream 93 and Design Council Topics, including Trials, Wukong, and more!

[Kinetos]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)oddessy20 said:

The comments made on Wukong almost allude to  an elitist attitude. As if because he doesn't aoe everything dead, or heal everyone everywhere, or buff the group...he's no good. I couldn't disagree more. There are a near infinite amount of MMO's out there that have the class that doesn't do anything but damage and survive. Wukong is that Frame. He doesn't have a crowd pleasing, all encompassing kit that addresses all aspects of gameplay that is Warframe, sure. But his theme is accurately based on the legend of the Monkey King and while I won't say there isn't room for improvement of his abilities, acting as if the abilities he has now are useless is dismissive at best. Just last night I rocked an hour for funsies pretty much perma-casting Primal Fury. I was giggling the whole time. DE doesn't need to cater to the "make me have fun" crowd. 

Wukong isn't the only survivor, and I find some of the other survivors more interesting. Don't like the one press afk nukers either. DE doesn't have to *make* me have fun with every frame, I don't expect to.

Any usage percentage of any frame is fine, they don't *need* to be equally liked or used as long as the reason is player taste and not imbalance or outdated design.

[Azamagon]

1 - New Warframe.
Thought it was a Scribe :P But I'd guess Alchemy if nothing else?

2 - Wukong.
Occassionally. He is AMAZINGLY powerful for a whole bunch of annoying sorties (perfect when I feel lazy), simply due to Defy (and partially due to Cloud Walker, mainly as a rare "take a breather" ability, or for occasional finishers).

That said. His kit could REALLY need spicing up (well, I think so for most Warframes, but Wukong is one of those that REALLY needs some changes, imo).

In general, his kit needs a powershift. Defy is too strong, while his other abilities are too weak or situational.

* Iron Jab - BORING and nigh useless. Make it like Dota 2's Monkey King's Boundless Strike, then we could talk. Like this:
* Defy - Too good. The penalties he gets are too gentle. Not to mention, it's just plain immortality, with no other effect going on while it's draining your energy, not even some kind of taunt-aura to go with it. So it's insanely strong, but also really dull.
* Cloudwalker - Needs to make him FASTER than running (so it has an incentive to be used other than for hiding / going up annoying places), but cut its timer in half to compensate if needed. Other than that, it has its situational uses.
* Primal Fury - Combos look bad, really stiff and 2 combos are insanely difficult to pull off (Pause and Hold). Not to mention; Why does this not just have a flat energycost to summon it? It provides NOTHING passively, so why does it continously drain energy? Excal drains because it has the autoblock, Valkyr drains because has the immortality, Titania drains because she flies and has high evasion. Ivara only costs when you shoot, since it has no passive (and Mesa's ulti should work the same as Ivara's. She's another one of those 'frames that needs a powershift in her kit as well). Either give it a passive or give it a flat cost. And make the combos easier to pull off + less stiff-looking.

4 (Where's the 3?) - Zephyr.
While I think every single Warframe need some touchups, the ones mentioned all need it for sure. Well, Nezha doesn't need much changes, compared to the other 3, he just needs some QoL and stuff like that, he is a very functional Warframe imo.
From the remaining 3, it was a tough call, but I picked Zephyr. Reaosns for that:
* Her 1 is meager as an ability (would function better as a passive; Hold jump to continously fly forward. Tada!)
* Divebomb is potentially awesome in concept, but HORRIBLE in execution. Scale its damage with melee mods. Make the range (up to a cap) scale with height fallen. Tada!
* Turbulence is her only useful ability right now, as it does its job well.
* Tornado is more trouble than help, due to its mechanics. Needs huge QoL changes (along with ability to cancel them on recast)

5/6/7 - Trials
Never played trials, probably never will either.
 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Azamagon

[Darkvramp]

i agree nezha needs some qol changes and to maker the healing from his 2 worth using and less clunky, as there is no reason to even use his 2 other than style factor or just for S#&$s and giggles.

[LightningsVengance]

I participated in half of a LoR trial... We failed when we got to the G3,  it was pretty fun though. And I think Zephyr is ignored simply because of her skill set, or rather the community not being too use to her play style and not everyone is willing to learn (there are some but still) And her Oxium cost in the dojo doesn't help

[UvBenServed]

1. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume those are all red herrings. So I'll just guess that we're getting our first female Chinese warframe. Although the only Chinese deity I think of when I look at her is Guan Yu (who is male).

2. Rarely. The main thing Wukong has going for him is he doesn't die, which gets kinda boring after a while imo. It has a tendency to trivialize things. I'm generally not a fan of any ability that prevents you from doing anything else. Whether it's cloud walker, undertow, spectral scream, petrify, sound quake, devour, etc etc (peacemaker is an exception though). Finally, and this is a bit of a nitpick, I'm somewhat disappointed that Wukong doesn't have certain abilities that I've come to expect based on portrayals of him in other media, like creating clones of himself or even turning into animals.

4. Zephyr. She doesn't do much in the way of damage and her mobility is unnecessary with parkour 2.0. So players use her kit almost entirely for defense. Which is fine, but a lot of other warframes already fall into that category and many of them do it better. Her first and second abilities are outdated. Her third ability is good (though a bit buggy last time I heard). Her fourth ability is good for crowd control, but it's unreliable and makes it tough to shoot enemies. And a lot of players find her passive to be a hindrance (higher jumping with extended air glide would be better than low gravity). She can also buff her teammates with the augment for her third ability, but it can be a bit disorienting to suddenly gain and lose movement/projectile speed.

5-7. I have not tried trials. I mostly play solo or in public matches. But solo is impossible and public sounds like it'd be a nightmare, even if I already knew what I was doing. I keep telling myself I should check out the raid school bus, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

On the subject of unlocking captura scenes, an easy solution could be to just tie them to scanning Ordis fragments.

With sentinel weapons, I agree that it makes sense that you can't use the same mod on two different pieces of equipment at the same time. But it's worth noting that sometimes it's better to sacrifice "realism" for the sake of gameplay. Food for thought.

Edited May 31, 2017 by UvBenServed

[tnccs215]

I really wanna address the "what Warframe do you think is most ignored by the community". 

Well, call me biased, but short answer is Equinox. It is true that some of the listed frame are in worse shape than her - yet I swear I have yet to see mention of her... Anywhere. 

No one talks about her. No one discusses her rather intense issues. The only reason some people even pick her up in the first place is because she is capable of ridiculous levels of CC cheese (Pacify) or somewhat of damage (Provoke) - or, occasionally, to serve as a team buffer for some whacky team builds. 

Other than that... She isn't what she's meant to be. She is a terribly executed mess of ideas hold together by the power one or two abilities have.

And the worst, is that that's fine for many people. 

[tnccs215]

50 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

* Her 1 is meager as an ability (would function better as a passive; Hold jump to continously fly forward. Tada!)

Replacing her bullet jump with her one is also a good alternative, while granting her infinite bullet-jumps as another passive. 

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, Kinetos said:

Trials, not interested in playing a mode that forces multi-player and has lore locked behind multi-player, is puzzle based but expects more than one completion, and has such a barrier to entry as players only want experienced players to go with them, and "experienced" means "copied a build from YouTube, watched the puzzle solved on youtube and then cheesed it once or twice". My network hasn't been good lately and I don't do recruiting. Pub or Solo.

Wukong, past lvl 30, never playing him. He's boring and his immortality is unnecessary.

Zephyr and Hydroid need the next reworks, Excalibur style, major changes. Enough people have mentioned specifics and have more invested in the frames that I'll pass on mentioning any specifics.

Yet, Trinity or Valkyr are interesting? Every warframe has a different appeal, Valkyr has limited team work potential while Trinity focuses on making allies harder to kill, giving energy but Wukong is not team oriented, he even more so than Valkyr is designed to be a commando - a warframe that is used to get into a place, kill or steal the objective and then survive long enough to get back out.

[Navarc]

I thought the new warframe was mesoamerican. But since thats wrong I guess I would think Mirror is the theme.

Spoiler

what i'm seeing: 

4. What other Warframes do you think are largely ignored by the community? Please explain why in a comment.
Well, Hydroid. It's the least popular one. I've already explained why and how I'd solve it here. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/795673-hydroid-alterations-improving-hydroid-without-deleting-replacing-his-abilities/

Trials are too tedious and time consuming. They're not difficult.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Navarchus

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

My answers in a nutshell:

reasons I trial - are not for rewards because to be honest I'd rather get 15 endo than a resist arcane.  Mainly run them to spend time with friends and help other people learn them, although for the inside of Jordan's verdict stage 3.  YouTube is really the only way to teach some one in less that 5-8 runs (fully).

i only somewhat enjoy them because of how many times I've run them and because I have friends who run them all the time.  If I didn't have friends that ran them I'd never run them.

Wu kong?  - I rarely use him.  Mainly because exalted abilities (ivara bow, Peacemaker, Titania ultimate melee and guns, Excalibur ult, valkyr ult and wu kong staff) irritate me with how many exceptions they have with their mod rules and no charge attack, and the inconsistency with Titania being able to use riven mods with hers while none of the others can.  

& Regular melee can be 10x stronger than exalted melee abilities the moment due to mod restrictions.

 

next frame?  Alchemy please! :-)  Unless the metal frame can go t2 liquid metal style! :-)

most underused / overlooked = other  because it's zephyr and hydroid.  

 

I think atlas is absurdly powerful and just fine just fine with his current kit, but very underused likely because his bossfight = archwing J3 golem which is absolutely brutal if you don't have fully ranked archwing and archguns + a full team of corrosive projection to strip his armor.

 

[Kinetos]

39 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Yet, Trinity or Valkyr are interesting? Every warframe has a different appeal, Valkyr has limited team work potential while Trinity focuses on making allies harder to kill, giving energy but Wukong is not team oriented, he even more so than Valkyr is designed to be a commando - a warframe that is used to get into a place, kill or steal the objective and then survive long enough to get back out.

Trinity is boring. Valkyr I do find interesting, though I use the abilities everyone else ignores more than I use the ones they spam. Valkyr and wukong may be similar in overall usage or whatever but the details are different and I don't find Wukongs details interesting.

"Every Warframe has different appeal" this is my point. Wukong simply doesn't appeal to me.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Kinetos

[Amazerath]

4. What other Warframes do you think are largely ignored by the community? Please explain why in a comment.

I feel Zephyr is ignored because the most distinctive things she used to offer (vertical movement and air control) were made obsolete by both Parkour 2.0 and Titania. And although some of her powers are still useful in certain situations, they all feel outdated.

A good rework could bring her back but it's probably gonna have to involve more then just adding synergy between powers.

[Gorila_Azul]

Can't predict what the next theme would be, but I'd love a metal frame. I'd be metal bending like Toph all day long.

Do I play Wukong often? Does the Pope pray often?

Besides Wukong, Zephyr is probably the most overlooked frame, since two of her abilities were made obsolete by Momvement 2.0 and her ultimate is highly unpredictable.

Sadly, I am yet to participate in a Trial. My clan is small and made up only by my friends, so I can't find anyone to teach them to me in the Dojo. I suppose the school bus is an option, I just... haven't found enough incentive to seek them out anyway. Overall, it feels like Trials are that strange part of the game set completely apart from me and I can totally play as if it didn't exist. If someone offered to teach me I'd be willing, but until then, I'll just let it stand to the side.

 

Oh, and thank you very much for taking up my topic suggestion! The least used frames deserve as much attention as they can get. Much obliged.

[Othergrunty]

Wait. 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7? What happend to question 3?

1. What do you think the theme of the next Warframe will be?

Let's see. Her skin is similar colored and looks similar to that of Rhino. The major difference are the clear shiny metal parts jammed into her chest, on her head and on her shoulders.

Maybe wishfull thinking, but metal manipulation could be nice. Having an armored looking female frame (Valkyr has a high armor rating but not much visible armor) would be a cool addition visualy and the metal manipulation might give us an alternative to the king of defence that is the Frost Snowglobe.

However the theme of alchemy could lend itself to much more flexibility. But it could also backfire if her powers turn out either too lackluster or too complicated to be worth using in the hectic combat of this game.

Mirror also sounds like a good option (i guess we assume that because of how shiny her metal parts are) but i'm not sure how much it could work for usefull powers.

So i went with Metal.

2. How often do you use Wukong?

Never.

I'm somewhat apathic towards him and he overall never won me over to use him beyond leveling him to 30 after some testing.

4(3). What other Warframes do you think are largely ignored by the community? Please explain why in a comment.

I would say Zephyr.

Her main thing when she was released was that she could stay airborn and move around much more vertical than most frames, even with the introduction of the vertical melee momentum. Her first two powers are entirely based around moving upwards and moving downwards quickly. However we now have a movement system for ALL frames which allows such kind of mobility for everyone (actualy even more thanks to aim gliding)

So quite a lot of her is now outdated, which would require a serious overhaul. Besides that her other two powers don't add much which other frames can't do better.

While Hydroid and Atlas might also not find much usage at least their entire gimick hasn't been made obsolote.

Zephyr still has the "wind mastery" thing going for her, which can be used for several different new powers.

5 (4). Have you participated in any of the Trials in Warframe?

No.

Because of various factors.

However i'm fine with not being able to obtain trial rewards because of that.

6 (5). If you participate regularly in Trials, why do you do so?

No opinion.

7 (6). Do you enjoy Trials?

No opinion.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Othergrunty

[JackMcRain]

1. What do you think the theme of the next Warframe will be?

Can't tell actually, that "lady" looks more of a knight or a samurai but it feels like that everyone is interested in having an alchemist warframe in the game, after all we never had one at the moment and that sounds interesting. Either way, I'm starting to imagine all the references that people might do with her when she's released. If fact, considering that DE is working on a unique hammer for the frame if feels like that she's going to be somewhat similar to Reinhardt from Overwatch, not to mention how tanky she can be (even though in real life knights were not these huge hulking tanks that were super slow but were well protected from damage like everyone assumes, you can see where I learned that from this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sugcU-3iHBw)

On the other hand if the new warframe that will come after Harrow turns out to be an alchemist I'm already seeing the many Metal Alchemist references poping all over the internet. Sure she can be something else and a metal theme would also be interesting, metal could be seen as a type of element that could be used almost similar to Mag only that if would be all about decreasing the armour of the enemies or draining a big portion of it and use it to increase the armour for all teamates, giving flat numbers instead of a percentage.

Other than that the new frame looks amazing, 20/10.

 

2. How often do you use Wukong?

I actually haven't got the chance to play with him yet, but he looks interesting and fun to play with, even if he's not that good as everyone loves to assume him to be. Sure his powers might not be good because of the way they were programmed, but I just think that no one has the right to judge the way he is, just look to what Limbo was when he was released and what he became after the rework. When Wukong finally gets the rework he deserves you might get surprised.

4. What other Warframes do you think are largely ignored by the community? Please explain why in a comment.

(First things first: I think you guys messed up a little in here by skipping the number 3 in these questions. But anyway, that doesn't matter at the moment.)

Honestly I can't exactly tell, each warframe have their uses but of course it's difficult to make something apealing for everyone. But sometimes I think that among all warframes in the game Hydroid and some others like maybe Zephyr and Nezha are the ones who people don't give a damn about them, sure it can just be with the fact that their abilities either don't do much damage or aren't very effective in certain condisions. For example, I noticed that Nezha isn't able to impale everyone if they are close enough to ancient healers or corrupted ones even if he can still deal damage to them. I still like Nezha as he is fast and can become immune to damage with a firery ring and it looks like he can be shipping with Nova, but his spears could actually work in a different way where they could still impale the enemies as normal even if they have healers with them only that they would have the ability to break free after half of the time, meaning that you would have to kill the ancients before the others would break free so they would stay impaled.

Zephyr sounds more like to be someone who's all about preventing the enemies from attacking and damage her or her teammates, just like how an airbender would do but I understand that she and other frames need some rework and most importantly love from the players. Like how I mentioned in the previous question about Wukong, don't judge them like some type of trashes, you might get surprised.

5. Have you participated in any of the Trials in Warframe?

Only once when I wanted to try it, at the moment it seemed interesting but it ended up beint nothing more than just a pain in the butt to do. In fact I never played The Jordas Verdict nor any of the nightmare versions of the trials, mainly because they can become extremely difficult and frustrating judging by my first experience, not to mention about the fact about the trials being consisted of at least 3 parts and being set to Invited only. I understand that it's because it's only accessable when using keys to get there but it becomes incredibly annoying having to look for people to do the trials as everything has to be well coordinated and that's not a huge problem to be as I saw how people do in the internet. And the use of the puzzles are kind of interesting except that you'll have to do them with a bunch to level 80 enemies always coming to ruin your life.

I'm not sure how they could be improved but trials aren't something that I'm interested at all.

6. If you participate regularly in Trials, why do you do so?

I actually don't participate much in them like I mentioned. But even then, I would like to try and get some of those Arcanes and other rewards. But what's the only way you have to obtain them? Through trials and that sucks.

7. Do you enjoy Trials?

No. Not at all.

 

There's also another thing that I want to say about the new upcoming feature of the weapon mods having icons to say when those are being used by other weapons and you can't use them in sentinel weapons if they are the same type, like when you have a Serration mod on a Soma and you can't use it on a rifle type sentinel weapon. That's something that I personally don't care, it won't change anything at all. Sure it can still help players to know wich are the mods that they are using so they can use them for sentinel weapons and regular weapons at the same time. I also don't mind if I have to level up some other mods to have them work on all weapons, but what's the point of having more and more duplicated mods other than just having some extra ones for that situation and, mostly common, for seelings for platinum. I'd rather prefer to have unique mods for the sentinel weapons instead of that, but it's ok anyway. Right now I usually prefer to use the sentinels just so I can use mods that warframes nor pets can use like vacum and other kind of utility mods. The only thing that I believe is unfortunate is the fact of the sentinels dying very easily and to me they tend to be way much useful than pets, even though I love the kavats so much.

Also speaking of rewadrs back in the 6th question, arcanes aren't the only ones that I have most trouble to have, focus lenses also follow a similar situation only that you just have to play sorties which happen to be way more fun to play than trials and I'd love to have others ways to get more focus lenses so that I could craft some great ones for some of my loadouts. I'm hoping that with the Focus 2.0 I can get to have other ways to get some extra lenses since that they can be very difficult to get, in fact I rather prefer focus lenses over the riven mods. Maybe we could also have greater verions of the lenses. Who knows?

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

5. I've tried all 3 trials, but I've only completed normal LOR once.

7. I did not enjoy them, which is why I've mostly stayed away.

For my first attempt at LOR I joined someone that was recruiting who said bringing a new player was ok because the rest of the squad knew the drill. During the trial, I was confused about what was going on even though I'd watched a couple videos beforehand. I was admonished at one point for killing stuff and told to just spam Molecular prime. There was a lot of standing around on buttons, the action wasn't what I would call compelling. We eventually made it to the final boss area where the group frustrated our host to the point where after swearing at everyone they aborted failing the mission.

Some time later, I joined yet another group from recruiting...we finished easily/quickly. Since I better understood what was expected this time I was able to hack things and carry things. It still wasn't fun and I didn't see any reason to do it again...but the group wanted to run the nightmare version next. We made it to the hijacking stage and insta-failed because someone stood on a button or forgot to stand on a button...fun stuff, never again.

Recently I tried doing normal LOR again with a knowledgeable/friendly group that used to do a lot of trials. It completely bugged out on 2 or 3 attempts (I can't remember the exact number) and we were forced to abort each time. We then tried JV, and being clueless, I was told to stay outside and push rocks around in the later stage. I did this for a VERY long time while the folks inside fumbled about with something. Eventually they ran out of revives (because they apparently used to be the ones to push the space rocks around) and we failed, yay.

My main reason for doing the trials was just to see what they had to offer, and it's just not for me. Both trials and the operator abilities are what I like to call a fiddly mess, but hey, makes a nice bullet point for the marketing literature I supppose.

 

[Archeyef]

I rarely see Zephyrs. And I think it comes down to her kit.

Zephyr's kit needs a lookover, in my opinion. Tailwind is kinda rendered obsolete by Parkour 2.0, and besides that there are not really enough high-ceilinged rooms for it to be used to it's potential. Divebomb is fine, but suffers a bit without Tailwind. Turbulence doesn't really have any problems that I can think of at the moment. It's a solid ability. Tornado is... Tornado is really annoying. It yanks enemies out of line of fire, then it lifts them out of melee range and whirls them around so they're difficult to hit, then it flings them in random directions, and you have to go hunt them down.

I simply find Wukong boring. But he's not alone, there are other frames I find boring as well. I have them, and can use them if absolutely needed, but I find them boring. And that's not really grounds for asking for changes.

[Gorila_Azul]

4 hours ago, (PS4)oddessy20 said:

I don't play trials so the only other comment I have is on Wukong. 

I get that there are upper levels of Warframe in which people can judge a set of abilities differently than I. I play survivals and Defense missions for the most part. My experience throughout the game is rather low, I've only been playing a year. But the moment I saw Wukong on the market, I bought him. First frame, pretty much ignoring Excalibur. He's now my most used frame by 10% or more, and he's been forma'd the most. I enjoy the hell out of him. 

Iron staff: My kubrow does the finisher moves, or I come in for the kill with, oh, Sydon. Murder everywhere. 
Defy: nuff said. Essentially I deign not to die. 
Cloudwalker: those status effects DID suck. 
Primal fury: everything dies. All of it. 

The comments made on Wukong almost allude to  an elitist attitude. As if because he doesn't aoe everything dead, or heal everyone everywhere, or buff the group...he's no good. I couldn't disagree more. There are a near infinite amount of MMO's out there that have the class that doesn't do anything but damage and survive. Wukong is that Frame. He doesn't have a crowd pleasing, all encompassing kit that addresses all aspects of gameplay that is Warframe, sure. But his theme is accurately based on the legend of the Monkey King and while I won't say there isn't room for improvement of his abilities, acting as if the abilities he has now are useless is dismissive at best. Just last night I rocked an hour for funsies pretty much perma-casting Primal Fury. I was giggling the whole time. DE doesn't need to cater to the "make me have fun" crowd. 

Dude, trust me, I'd be the last person to ever say he's no good. My comments were made out of nothing if not love for Wukong. My playtime of him is abnormal, even for favorite frame standards. But the fact is he does have some serious issues, e.g, most times having only two abilities (one for the majority of players) and the biggest obstacle in the way to fix them is the lack of attention for him. He's not praised or hated, he's not discussed, he's just silent. As much as I love him, if we want to see him improved, we need to address him with persistent and maybe even harsh feedback. I think Rebecca pushed it a bit too far when she said "this is Gorila's perspective on Wukong". I chose my words carefully. I said those were the main reasons people said they don't use him, and that comes from 17 months of scanning and skimming for feedback on him in the game, in the forums and in Reddit. Really, I just want to see a little more love for him. Until then, I'll continue to hammer everything down with Primal Fury until the world grows cold.

 

Oh, and technically they do have to cater to the "make me have fun" crowd. They are game developers. Their literal job is to make people have fun.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Gorila_Azul

[Shadow8600]

1. Still looks like a female Rhino/Samurai to me. I think she looked awesome.
2. Truthfully, never. I don't even think of him when picking warframes for missions.
3. The cool kids don't need to follow numerical order!
4. Zephyr I grew to appreciate quite a bit. Hagoromo skin was the main culprit behind this.
5. Twice, the only time my friends and I have all been more than 4 people and are willing to do so. I wish you could do them with less than 4 people. Even if it's significantly more difficult.
6. For arcanes.
7. The two we've attempted ended prematurely, so not quite, no.
 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Shadow8600

[Kinetos]

15 minutes ago, Gorila_Azul said:

Oh, and technically they do have to cater to the "make me have fun" crowd. They are game developers. Their literal job is to make people have fun.

No one can be "made to have fun". Having fun is up to the players. Giving the players tools to have fun is all the devs can do.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, Kinetos said:

Trinity is boring. Valkyr I do find interesting, though I use the abilities everyone else ignores more than I use the ones they spam. Valkyr and wukong may be similar in overall usage or whatever but the details are different and I don't find Wukongs details interesting.

"Every Warframe has different appeal" this is my point. Wukong simply doesn't appeal to me.

Which is perfectly fine! Everyone has warframes they favor and those they find less fun, Just because we dislike a warframe doesn't make it less an option for others though. I am glad Valkyr works out for you, honestly I favor Oberon of all warframes. Often using Excalibur, who for most is not that distant from Valkyr but without the durability.

[Akimbo]

4) Atlas - Only his 1 is worth using, 2 is just ridiculously small / pointless, 3 is too slow (cool idea though) and 4 doesn't scale well enough or provide any utility other than sometimes they get between you and bullets.

7) Don't mind LoR, but too many of the rewards are garbage, which means actually getting 10 arcanes of the same type that are worth having takes a very, very long time - this sucks the life out of doing them (a bit like sorties) because most of the time you finish, yes! success! Oh look, worthless reward, time wasted.

JV just seems like a buggy mess that requires AW at some point in it, so I avoid.

[Gorila_Azul]

12 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

No one can be "made to have fun". Having fun is up to the players. Giving the players tools to have fun is all the devs can do.

You're right. "Made to have fun" would require the players to want to play the game and be willing to use the mechanics legitimately in the first place. I suppose I just thought this went without saying. \_(•-•)_/

[Skaleek]

I use Wukong fairly often when i just feel like using my guns and not having to worry about anything else. I don't know why people hate on Wukong, i think he looks fine (custom colours gold/brown/silver). He's actually one of my favourite frames, I think that other frames need way more love than him, personally (Zephyr, Hydroid, Atlas).

I'm just afraid if they come and revisit him they'll gut defy and move on. Defy is such a powerful ability anyone who overlooks Wukong should take a second look.

Also with Primal Fury and it's augment its a very potent ability damage wise. The animations, however, definitely need work, seeing as it is more dps efficient to push e twice and let the stance reset rather than continuing the combo.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Skaleek

[daExile]

1) Maples?

Honestly, alchemy sounds more interesting than the rest to me.

2) Never. On top of everything I don't really care as mainly gun player, his paint patterns don't exist, except for helmet, pbbbt. Can't even use him for looks :/

4) Eh, Atlas I guess, due to archwing needed to farm him being generally disliked. He feels really good when punching bursas, though. :D

8) Yes!