Why There Will be No Veterans In a Year Time (read orig. post)

[AperoBeltaTwo]

-snip-

Edited June 24, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[(PSN)fullblast35]

DE knows who is coming in and who is coming out of their game. the same way they know how many cyphers users are using this week.  I'm mr 23 and i'm going to be clear about something :  what you call end game is what you made end game (the community).  Now we can consider a toggle option to play missions at a difficulty we want, but the game does not turn around us (veterans) who want to kill level 2000 enemies on a  regular basis.  Because last time i checked we could be out there helping out new players than spending 7 hours in a survival, while we own every possible thing in the game, where we are mostly the balance of the plat economy in the game.  You want to leave? wha tis really keeping you?  i can tell you : the game is awesome.  you still find a reason to come on it.  a veteran leaves, someone else becomes a veteran, you will not be missed.  now leave my game alone :D

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 10.06.2017 at 8:18 AM, (PS4)fullblast35 said:

DE knows who is coming in and who is coming out of their game. the same way they know how many cyphers users are using this week.  I'm mr 23 and i'm going to be clear about something :  what you call end game is what you made end game (the community).  Now we can consider a toggle option to play missions at a difficulty we want, but the game does not turn around us (veterans) who want to kill level 2000 enemies on a  regular basis.  Because last time i checked we could be out there helping out new players than spending 7 hours in a survival, while we own every possible thing in the game, where we are mostly the balance of the plat economy in the game.  You want to leave? wha tis really keeping you?  i can tell you : the game is awesome.  you still find a reason to come on it.  a veteran leaves, someone else becomes a veteran, you will not be missed.  now leave my game alone :D

How would DE know that? They have a daily tribute system that people just log in, clear and leave without playing the game. Without interacting with the community or the economy - even less with the gameplay itself. Yet, every time Steam charts are brought up we are supposed to believe that "yeah, everything is fine. Online is good, playerbase is satisfied". Also, why do you sound like a veteran is obliged to help the new players or help DE make money off him without having anything to do in the game apart from that? It's just ridiculous. Game will die without veterans. Game will die without progression. Game will die without a rewarding gameplay.

 Games that rely on constant flow of players coming and going never do well in the long run - because they can't build a reliable following. And following is exposire. Following is word of mouth. Following is old players stay - new players come; as opposed to old players leave - new players come and leave before turning into old players. If there is nothing to do for the veterans, there will be no reason for the newer players to stay.

[Volinus7]

16 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How would DE know that? They have a daily tribute system that people just log in, clear and leave without playing the game. Without interacting with the community or the economy - even less with the gameplay itself. Yet, every time Steam charts are brought up we are supposed to believe that "yeah, everything is fine. Online is good, playerbase is satisfied". Also, why do you sound like a veteran is obliged to help the new players or help DE make money off him without having anything to do in the game apart from that? It's just ridiculous. Game will die without veterans. Game will die without progression. Game will die without a rewarding gameplay.

 Games that rely on constant flow of players coming and going never do well in the long run - because they can't build a reliable following. And following is exposire. Following is word of mouth. Following is old players stay - new players come; as opposed to old players leave - new players come and leave before turning into old players. If there is nothing to do for the veterans, there will be no reason for the newer players to stay.

They made a lot of profit and don't seem to care about anything else.

http://leyoutech.com.hk/investors-relation/financial-reports

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

They made a lot of profit and don't seem to care about anything else.

If anything they probably care about losing that profit.

[ProfessorLitmus]

19 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

If anything they probably care about losing that profit.

they sure care enough to delete my and Volinus7's posts about it in another thread without giving any reason or warning as to why.....almost like they're trying to hide it or something.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, ProfessorLitmus said:

they sure care enough to delete my and Volinus7's posts about it in another thread without giving any reason or warning as to why.....almost like they're trying to hide it or something.

It's probably just moderators being overly cautious - or something like that. Happens.

[(PSN)zero1872001]

On 6/1/2017 at 7:58 PM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Is [N0T] 42
Nothn's changing as long as there is no endgame. They could add 1000 more melee weapons and a 100 more warframes, if there's no gameplay for them - who cares.

Max Challie
Axi fissures, kuva floods, maybe raids? I think we have endgame content

Is [N0T] 42
 Kuva floods (and kuva in general) use an unnecessary side mechanic that has nothing to do with the game - it was added on top of everything and is never used outside those kuva missions (there is no reason to use it). Kuva missions are basically just a mini-game with barely any gameplay for a single person - not talking about a squad of four. Same with all other non-endless missions. Missions in warframe are short and mandatory. And people usually have no incentive to play them longer than the very first rotation. Every time I go into a random mission I see the same thing - 5 minutes total of running to the objective, 3 seconds to complete the objective and the rest is running to extraction. Outside the endless missions Warframe is just a corridor parcour simulator.
 Fissures have an incredibly low skill entry level and in random que people tend to go into endless fissures half-naked. Even in T1 fissures guys like that leave after 10-15 minutes when enemies are still lvl 20+. This is no f@cking endgame. On top of people just leaving, fissures are random - you never know which one you'll get and you rarely see endless axi fissures. Also, the dumbest part of fissure gameplay is that no matter what kind of gear you bring and how much you drag down your teammates with your absolute lack of effort, you still get the same rewards as 3000h+ veterans. I can't stress enough how stupid it is.
 Raids? Raids aren't an endgame. Anyone with basic gear can do raids - raids are just a crowd control fest with a convoluted step sequences. People rarely do them because they don't have an ingame marker\tutorial system - that's the only reason. Otherwise raids are easy asf.
 Sorties? 15 minutes of gameplay locked behind a 24 hour timer. Also, all of the aforementioned is in one way or another locked behind some kind of a timer.
 Quests - 2% of the overall time spent in the game. (I imagine how much time it takes to create them) 

Is [N0T] 42
I need to stop, I've been over this conversation a hundred times already. It's pointless.

P.S.
Every time there is an empty space between updates, someone leaves never to return. DE, guys, you're trying to combat content fatigue with more content, instead of focusing on refining endless missions' gameplay which is THE ONLY type of gameplay available to you that could carry people into infinitely scaling endgame and make investing time and effort into Warframe worth it. Listen to your community, listen to the salty people - they are the only ones who actually care and could help you. Current Warframe is lacking the most basic thing all games should have - a carrot on a stick that is unreacheble. You only have ONE currency in the game that is universally valuable and acknowledged by all players - ducats (kuva to an extend, but not with the current Kuva gameplay). Neither credits, nor resources don't work like that - primarily because they're not tradeble and not because of stockpiles. You had endless missions where for staying longer and putting more time and effort players would get a reward increase they couldn't get otherwise. Fissures don't have that.
 Guys, DE, please, don't kill your own game. It's a good game. You put so much effort into it. We love it so much. Allow us to play it without timers, without feeling of time being wasted for no ingame value produced.

P.P.S.
Guys in the comments, if this post doesn't get deleted instantly, if you wanna tell me how much you enjoy Warframe after playing for 3000 hours, first ask the questions below:
- Do you play alone or with a bunch of friends distracting you all the time?
- Do you play in random que?
- Do you often pay to skip the game? - (I understand that Prime access is Warframe's bread and butter, but it is what it is - you pay to skip the farm. Same goes for Day1 packs.)
- Do you really honestly think that Warframe's gameplay stands on its own?
- Would you want a 24\7 available, challenging continuous gameplay mode with rewards that are deeply rooted into the game's trade system and are universally acknowledged by all players? 

Possible Solutions to the Problem
==Fissures tweak
 I couldn't touch on every single subject so I picked one that in my opinion is the most and absolutely fundamental - effort\reward system. It is something that should be fixed immedeately and wouldn't really take an awful lot of time to do. Just add kuva to the kuva fortress. Allow people to roll one relic multiple times in endless fissures and that's it. That's basically all I want. Maybe fix the fissure rotation system so that at any given time there is a fissure for every single mission type on every tier - does it sounds a lot to do? Not really. It's a simple tweak of the existing systems.

==Sorties rework (Token System)
 24\7 sorties could solve this problem, but the sortie system has to be reworked top to bottom for that to happen. It could work as an endgame but only if it's something you could play whenever you want and still get a grounded reward for your time and added difficulty. Current sorties as I said 15 minutes of gameplay once a day - that's a joke right there.

==Endless raids.
 Tweaked standart endless missions with raid-level enemies.
Accessible 24\7 with no timers attached.  

==24\7 available Mission Randomizer with scaling Kuva\Token rewards and starting enemy levels 80-100+
 It can be integrated into the matchmaking system. Partially prevents camping (especially in random que) due to random choice of the missions. Allows the use of almost all existing tilesets and missions, including the assassinations. Rewards the added effort with scaling (in case of endless missions) Kuva\Token value. Accessible 24\7 with no timers attached. 
Warning: No 5-10 minute endless missions, please, like the Nightmare, Alert and Sortie "endful" endless missions. If the mission rolled in the randomizer is of an endless type, let people play for as long as they can handle the growing difficulty, increasing the reward per roll maybe till a certain a cap.
Update: It's basically one node or something like that. Just a point and click thing that moves you into a standart que where you get an "assignment" with 3 other players that happened to get into the randomizer at the same time with you. It works similar to nightmare missions, but without modifiers and timers. And it has to be one node\one interface for random que to work==Solar Wars
 Solar Wars would be an invasion system overhaul with Corpus and Grineer, as well as maybe smaller Syndicate fleets, moving through the Strachart and fighting for the individual nodes, solar rails and ultimately whole planets - creating local spheres of influence for each of the factions. Infestation would be a common enemy, and Tenno - a decisive force, keeping "the Balance" of powers in check, or tipping it one way or the other leading to an event.
 Among all the things I've mentioned above, this one is the hardest to implement and without an appropriate rewards\token system, as well as difficulty levels required for an endgame, might not even solve the problem. But, the biggest advantage is that such a system would provide the whole playerbase with a permanent occupation and a meaning to the gameplay. It is also supposed to be primarily automatic and not heavily update-dependant.




Other stuff: 

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==Possible camping issue fix for (void 1.0) survivals (c) 

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 Ok, let me just give you a quick example of how camping could have been fixed in old void survivals without having to resort to delete-hammers (what DE did). Survival is basically the only mission type that has that problem outside of defence\mobile defence missions which basically require you to camp.
 What if every 5 minutes a killable capture target appears at a random room on the map? And it doesn't come to you - it stays in the room where it spawned. And the only way to complete the rotation is to go there and kill it, and pick up the item that it drops - which would be your reward for the ongoing rotation. All four players have to go there if they want to get the reward for the rotation. Sitting in the same room or resetting the camp every five minutes would just be even more tedious than what camping already is - and pretty much completely impractical since spawns require a bit of time to locate the team. You also can not send one player to kill and pick up the reward for everyone - yes, next rotation would start after the capture target is killed, but if you don't pick up the reward item - you get nothing. It would also completely murder afk-heroes in survivals.

 The only real problem I see with this is the chance that item might fall in textures. There probably has to be some mechanism to get those items back on the surface. And of course both the Capture target (I guess, assassination target would be more appropriate) should be markered on the map.

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==Krion112:
"...They've been fun, but not satisfactory, and satisfaction is the goal of a game, not fun. Fun, in Warframe, is only one piece of the Satisfaction."

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==Xzorn: 
"...there are two different types of motivation. Intrinsic and Extrinsic."

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The proverbial "Carrot on a stick" is just exploitation of the rewards system of the brain.

You do something. You get something and your brain releases dopamine so you feel pleasure from it. Once you've felt this reward it's the anticipation of getting it again that motivates most people which is the carrot on a stick's function.

Motivation reasons can vary tremendously but there are two different types of motivation. Intrinsic and Extrinsic.

I do endurance runs with Intrinsic motivation. To know everything about a frame and further my knowledge of the game itself. (satisfaction)

What Warframe lacks for veterans is Extrinsic motivation which also happens to be what most people respond to. (money, objects, power)

Since it's the anticipation of rewards which motivate; a balancing act must be played. Give the rewards too easily and you lose anticipation, therefor motivation. Force anticipation to linger too long without compensating rewards for the increased time and you also lose motivation. Warframe lacks this balance.

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==Kuva Mission type idea from Fallen_Echo:

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 If there's one thing I want you guys to walk away from this thread with, is that without the rewards and the scaling difficulty there will be no reason to play any of the new content that will be added to the game. Ever. Warframe is a grindy game without an incentive to grind.

TLDR well not all of it atleast.

I agree. we could use some newer content for endgame fun, like Boss Rush mode. (Sugguested this before)
Honestly, I dont play much of the current "Endgame" stuff, raids? haha.. sucks getting a group. Kuva.. naw i got all the kuva i need.  Sorties.. maybe once in a while.
Been here off and on for 2-3 years. Still plan on sticking around. but I also got other games I can play and enjoy as well. I mostly come back for invasions I need. Stuff for my clan, unvaults. new quests, and new primes.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

5 hours ago, (PS4)zero1872001 said:

I agree. we could use some newer content for endgame fun, like Boss Rush mode. (Sugguested this before)

I didn't say we just need newer content. We need the content we have in the game already to be fleshed out and put together in a meaningful way. Basically just marry endless missions with reasonable rewards for added effort and we'll be ok for now. Void 1.0 was perfectly fine in that regard (despite admittedly lacking in other areas).  

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

how long do you have to have been playing to be a veteran in your opinion?

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by (XB1)HenCeption

[ikkabotz]

People can distract off the subject at hand, but it's obvious the game has lacked a lot in mission playability for awhile now. I don't need anything crazy, just put a space between ultimate cheese and instantly dying and that would be good enough for me. Why do people hate on the idea there should be a middle ground to play with some more expression?  Warframe used to already have this format and the game was better. Game is seriously easy and mind numbing right now till the AI difficulty artificially kills you in a heavy hitting game of "Rocket Tag". It's not fun.

Numbers will keep dropping. Why are these numbers dropping? It might not be Armageddon but I bet we hit the lowest in months and months this coming July to August range. There are a lot of people who white knight and defend the growth of the game, doesn't mean anything to me when the evidence clearly points to inflated numbers that peak every quarter from Prime hype or a new frame. Warframe lacks the inspiration of in mission playability it once had and the average number of players is dropping . Shouldn't defend its current game state unless you really believe its good. There's a lot of evidence underneath the content blanket that is suggesting otherwise.

Harrow will be an underwhelming frame with the current game format and quite a few people on forums are refusing to play ball anymore. If Harrow doesn't peak interest then the artificial bubble of players will be effected. I don't want to see Warframe fail, I love the game...but the amount of neglect to issues already forewarned about from Veteran and new comers alike leaves me a little bitter to what's happening as we're coming full circle into what many tried to warn about. This was a long time in the making and many players tried. Nobody should be surprised. Stop white knighting this game as "everything is ok" when it's not. Some core elements of gameplay should be prioritized like they're not. It's not an unrealistic goal to ask for it.

Edited June 26, 2017 by komoriblues

[AperoBeltaTwo]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)HenCeption said:

how long do you have to have been playing to be a veteran in your opinion?

Veteran is just a term I use for people who essentially tried everything there is in the game and understand how it works enough to be able to answer any question a beginner or intermediate would ask. Veteran is basically just a state of mechanical and practical knowledge acquired through expierience and interactions with game mechanics.

 It's not tied to the time spent in the game - at least not directly, since there are players with quite a lot of time in the game who never used forma or potatoes, never played raids etc. 

Edited June 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, komoriblues said:

People can distract off the subject at hand, but it's obvious the game has lacked a lot in mission gameplay for awhile now. I don't need anything crazy, just put a space between ultimate cheese and instantly dying and that would be good enough for me. That did exist at one point. Why do people hate on the idea there should be a middle ground to play with some more expression?  

Game is seriously easy and mind numbing right now till the AI difficulty artificially kills you in heavy hitting "Rocket Tag". Numbers will keep dropping. It might not be Armageddon but I bet we hit the lowest in months and months this coming July to August range. There are a lot of people who defend the growth of the game, doesn't mean anything to me when the evidence clearly points to inflated numbers every quarter from Prime hype or a new frame. Warframe lacks the inspiration of in mission gameplay it once had and the average number of players is dropping . Shouldn't defend its current game state.

It's in really bad shape right now. It's not keeping players, just look at the steam charts showing this will be the first time there will be a consecutive drop in players over a three month period in its history. Most likely June will report losses too, making it four. I predict July and August will be the same. Harrow will be an underwhelming frame with the current game format and quite a few people on forums are refusing to play ball anymore. I don't want to see Warframe fail, I love the game...but the amount of neglect to issues already forewarned about from Veteran and new comers alike leaves me a little bitter to what's happening. This was a long time in the making and many players tried. Nobody should be surprised.

This. Agree.
*sigh*

[k05h]

 

On 2.6.2017 at 1:58 AM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Guys in the comments, if this post doesn't get deleted instantly, if you wanna tell me how much you enjoy Warframe after playing for 3000 hours, first ask the questions below:
- Do you play alone or with a bunch of friends distracting you all the time?

Only 1000 hours ingame but I guess the same amout of time spent in forums, wiki and watching build videos. 

I mostly play solo or with randoms. I totally enjoy the time I have with randoms because they always surprise me. Sometimes I end up with low MR players that have insane good builds, sometimes I end up with the perfect fashion frames and sometimes with new players that really appreciate advise (and some free mods). 

On 2.6.2017 at 1:58 AM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

- Do you often pay to skip the game? - (I understand that Prime access is Warframe's bread and butter, but it is what it is - you pay to skip the farm. Same goes for Day1 packs.)

Things I skip are raids. I prefer to just buy arcanes I need. The same goes for rivens because I never get rivens for the weapons I enjoy playing. I do buy into Prime Access and Prime Vault occasionally. I bought into 3 Prime Vaults, 2 full Prime Access and 3 Prime Accessories so far. I just like to treat myself with something nice from time to time. 

On 2.6.2017 at 1:58 AM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

- Do you really honestly think that Warframe's gameplay stands on its own?
- Would you want a 24\7 available, challenging continuous gameplay mode with rewards that are deeply rooted into the game's trade system and are universally acknowledged by all players? 

I love the gameplay. The run and gun is better than anything I have been playing. The excessively large pool of weapons and the ways to mod them keeps me coming back. Building and modding weapons is one of the thing I love about warframe. The number of different warframes and  ways of modding makes each mission unique. Even when I run ODD or Xini over and over again warframe and weapon builds of other players keep it fresh. - This part of the gameplay is special.

Trading, fashion frame and fashion orbiter are parts of the gameplay I come to enjoy after I cleared the star chart. They are special and they always make me return to Warframe. I took 4 breaks so far but always came back to my nicely decorated Orbiter and studied the wonders of new weapons and mods. 

There are those special rituatals that I enjoy more than in any other games. Every second Friday I get myself a fresh Espresso, take out the best looking fashion frame and cruise to Baro's place. I walk (no run, no dodge roll, no bullet jump) normally towards him and browse his goods. I totally enjoy this. And I enjoy the calm Sunday mornings when I solo spy missions or go treasure hunting on Lua or in the void. 

On 2.6.2017 at 1:58 AM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

- Would you want a 24\7 available, challenging continuous gameplay mode with rewards that are deeply rooted into the game's trade system and are universally acknowledged by all players? 

I can only speak for myself but what I like about Warframe is that it can be enjoyed casually and in digestable chunks. Nobody else seems to do games like this.  I am fine with daily sorties where things can get crazy but for the largest part I am happy with the star chart. Compared with other F2P games I play (Dirty Bomb, Paladins, SWTOR).

I would not mind challenging gameplay the same way I dont mind having raids. But that would not be the reason to keep playing. If I can buy the rewards

When I look at the numbers (hours played and money invested) I tend to spend way more money on relaxed gameplay than on challenging content. 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by k05h

[Music4Therapy]

Here's my problem. There is a ton of power creep, which is okay, but they don't release more difficult content along with the power creep.

We are getting more and more powerful every update and the enemies have stayed the same. It's like if WoW raised it level cap to 200 and gave all the players new awesome gear, but didn't release any new raids/dungeons. This game has become trivial with many different methods to cheese through any content that has any resemblance of difficulty (Naramon, I'm looking at you)

It sucks because I love the game, despite the extreme lack of balance along with the non-existent endgame. The gameplay and the graphics are second to none.

This game spoiled me. All other games feel dreadfully slow compared to this. The fast paced combat and movement this game has to offer is amazing. Just getting burnt out due to the fact there isn't anything in the game atm aside from endless missions that give me a reason to grind/upgrade gear.

Make the game competitive in some way. Make the leaderboards mean something. Make being in clans mean something. The clan events are cool, they need to happen more often though and need to be more rewarding. There is no reason to go back to the Kuva Fortress since you released it, why not make Kuva drop on Rot C of endless missions there with a multiplier on how much is capable of dropping that increases the longer you're in the mission.

Every game that has lasted for a long period of time in the history of gaming, boardgames included, has had 2 things in common: 1) Balanced Gameplay, 2) Replayability. You guys have an excellent game despite lacking both of these things, and that why so many people come and try this game but so many get burnt out and threads like this come to be. This game has so much potential, too bad when you're on the other end of the grind spectrum and you have the powerful weapons/mods it turns into a game of you 1-shotting everything until everything starts 1-shotting you then leave mission.

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

32 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

the fact there isn't anything in the game atm aside from endless missions that give me a reason to grind/upgrade gear.

And those aren't even motivated in the context of the game - you're not getting anything extra for your effort in endless missions so you're not incentivized to grind/upgrade your gear.

Edited June 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Chrif1992]

Teachers use the word differentiation. This is about teaching kids in a way that they are always learning, always bettering themselves and not repeating mundane work that they already can do.

I think that is the issue with warframe, I can't better myself easily. Sure I can do endless but I have to grid for an hour to get enemies up to a reasonable difficulty. I did a 3 hour endless just to get a free radiant key. The grind was so boring. But then we hit wave 70 and all hell broke loose till wave 80. Same with the anbulus, I got a pretty high score. But again the issue is it took me 2 hours to get to a reasonable difficulty.

They have talked for ages about a difficulty slider but they never put it in. There is so many things they say they want to put in like the token system and the difficulty slider but it just does not seem that valuable to them for some reason.

[Das_Maning]

agreed to this, i've played for 2 years now. retire, and only comeback to see whats change, farm new frame, and retire again. this game needs new gameplay. maybe DE could add citadel in planets, like open world, not just relay. we mostly spend time in our spaceship alone, that kinda boring too. 

gameplay is still the most essential tho

[Shikkoku]

On 2017. 06. 07. at 1:02 AM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 "Quests consume a ton of working hours to create, yet, only provide a mere hour of actual gameplay in the end. This is just not sustainable. "

I think there is more in quests, i didn't play for a year, come back for the quests... Warframe has huge plot potential. People go exited about the lore. Before the Second Dream there were hundreds of threads about what Tenno and Warframes are... IMO there were some better fanmade hypotheses, but I like what DE made too. I only can forgive Warframe the grind and repetitiveness because of the story. Even if they are short. Well, I think quest's difficulty should adapt to your "level"(f.e. MR). They are too easy, which makes them shorter.  I think Warframe is something like Dark Souls series as the matter of lore, but the give you the lore with time. So it's worth playing it even if you maxed out everything. 

 

 

[Iccotak]

On 6/26/2017 at 7:06 PM, INSANEDOCTOR said:

agreed to this, i've played for 2 years now. retire, and only comeback to see whats change, farm new frame, and retire again. this game needs new gameplay. maybe DE could add citadel in planets, like open world, not just relay. we mostly spend time in our spaceship alone, that kinda boring too. 

gameplay is still the most essential tho

Warframe doesn't need new gameplay per se as it does need polished gameplay.
Warframe has too many incomplete features. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 28.06.2017 at 0:28 PM, Shikkoku said:

I think there is more in quests, i didn't play for a year, come back for the quests... Warframe has huge plot potential. People go exited about the lore. Before the Second Dream there were hundreds of threads about what Tenno and Warframes are... IMO there were some better fanmade hypotheses, but I like what DE made too. I only can forgive Warframe the grind and repetitiveness because of the story. Even if they are short. Well, I think quest's difficulty should adapt to your "level"(f.e. MR). They are too easy, which makes them shorter.  I think Warframe is something like Dark Souls series as the matter of lore, but the give you the lore with time. So it's worth playing it even if you maxed out everything. 

How long did it take you to finish the Second dream and how many times did you play it? If the answers are even "I played it twise" and "more than an hour" - I'll be surprised. I don't dismiss qhests as being completely useless - quests serve a narrative purpouse. They give the player a reason to be emotionally invested. But in a game like Warframe you don't need too many quests for that and whatever side stories you want to tell - creative item descriptions would be more than enough to accomplish that. You don't have to waste thousands of hours and months and months of work just to make one quest, when you could write your narrative within the item descriptions - and it's not like DE have no idea how to do it either. They have Kuria and Cephalon fragments - but those are just useless collectibles when you could add exactly as much narrative directly onto items that the players craft, simultaneously motivating them to try various weapons just to find out the hidden messages. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Iccotak]

50 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How long did it take you to finish the Second dream and how many times did you play it? If the answers are even "I played it twise" and "more than an hour" - I'll be surprised. I don't dismiss qhests as being completely useless - quests serve a narrative purpouse. They give the player a reason to be emotionally invested. But in a game like Warframe you don't need too many quests for that and whatever side stories you want to tell - creative item descriptions would be more than enough accomplish that. You don't have to waste thousands of hours and months and months of work just to make one quest, when you could write your narrative within the item descriptions - and it's not like DE have no idea how to do it either. They have Kuria and Cephalon fragments - but those are just useless collectibles when you could add exactly as much narrative directly onto items that the players craft, simultaneously motivating them to try various weapons just to find out the hidden messages. 

Have to disagree with you.
I understand your overall concern that resources are being spread too thin and that the developers should be focusing on fleshing out and fixing already existing features before they think about putting in a campaign.
BUT "creative item descriptions" sounds like another placeholder for quality Story content. Much like how farming is a placeholder for quality gameplay content. However, you're saying that this is the only story aspect the game should have, which sounds like a waste of potential.

You keep saying things along the line of;

50 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

in a game like Warframe you don't need too many quests for that and whatever side stories you want to tell

When DE intended this game to have a large scope, which included solid core gameplay and a solid campaign storyline.
Hard to see it now because the game is practically in alpha/beta stage. That label doesn't go away Just because it charges money. That money is used to fund development. 
Btw those fragments are collectibles that contain lore and that mechanic can be found in dozens upon dozens games. 

Understand that DE is aiming for Triple A quality game. That is the standard they are aiming for.
The standard you are putting is a basic F2P. A model they only went with because they couldn't get funding.

DE has an expansive universe with lots of stories they want to tell.
Why set up the lore at all if you are not going to do anything with it?
And to be frank these quests are just about the only thing that keeps some of the playbase interested. 
Removing Quests, To Stop making them, or To not implement them at all is a terrible idea.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Iccotak

[AperoBeltaTwo]

25 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

"creative item descriptions" sounds like another placeholder for quality Story content.

From Software fans would eat you alive for this. Souls series created an incredible narrative and spawned a whole media subculture with just creative item descriptions.

Story Quests =/= Quality gameplay 

 There's a whole lot of story-driven games with incredibly dumb narratives that influence and damage the overall fine gameplay. And in case of warframe the quests DE create are really-really nothing special. They have something absolutely unique with warframe's gameplay - something that was there from the very beginning. Yes, it's a horde shooter with space magic and ninjas - but ffs it's a HORDE SHOOTER WITH SPACE MAGIC AND NINJAS. THAT'S AWESOME. That's something that nobody has. That's the strenght of this game. Yet instead of playing off their strenghts, DE focus on manufacturing generic one hour, one-note quests that people usually forget the second those are finished.   

9 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Have to disagree with you.

You are in your right to do so, but tell me honestly how long in total it took you to play through both second dream and war within on your first time? And was there ever a second one? And if you played those multiple times, how much time in total did it take before you got tired of the same scenario?

 There's a simple math behind not prioritizing quests over gameplay during online games' development: whatever engaging mechanical tool you provide a player with would result in hours and hours of playing and testing, and studying - versitile, variable gameplay provides the players with freedom to do their own thing (DE consciously understand this much at least, but they couldn't get it right in four years - so now they push excuses like "endgame is what you make of it" instead of providing their players with mechanical tools to create an endgame within the context of the actual game. Multiplayer captura is NOT A GAMEPLAY); on the other hand quests are a highly controlled, scripted expierience that requires literally leading the player by the hand on every step, while providing very little of playthrough time for the same development time. 

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

42 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Understand that DE is aiming for Triple A quality game.

Quests =\= Quality either.

Also, Skyrim is a triple A quality story\narrative-driven game. GTA 5 is a triple A game. DE can't handle triple A, and I never heard them aiming at that level.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, Iccotak said:

And to be frank these quests are just about the only thing that keeps some of the playbase interested. 

Because there is no gameplay otherwise. That's the whole point of this thread.