Why There Will be No Veterans In a Year Time (read orig. post)

[Darkvramp]

7 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

You kinda contradict yourself in the same post...you know fashionframe and dojoframe aren't gameplay, right? I mean, captura would be the endgame then. It's not. Not really. It's a good gimmick, but it's just a side thing to do when you don't play the game.

Gimmicks are the core of what DE seems to be doing lately. Do i bash and saying captura is bad, no but i wish another raid or improvements came to the raids over a camera mode.

3 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

"but better". Explain how raids could improve or such.

I feel the problem with trials is not the game mode, but the community. We have a lovely Raid School Bus, but that does not hide the fact of how some recruit chat squads function and how prejudice they are of your ability. Maybe if DE allowed raids to be soloed with no key for each stage like a sortie for new starters, we could progress. But stating there is "no end-game" and providing no real feedback does not help anyone. :)

The community is a problem in that aspect, because achieving the level that they require is so easy. But as soon as you get all this max gear, What are you allowed to do with it? Raids? Not really, the raids now require so little skill and all you need is the energy to cc the enemies. You weapons matter very little in raids which is why they feel so off. making the raids feel so that you are doing something that is not just spamming an ability and waiting, or requiring something that no one seems to play like arch wing.

[Chipputer]

I mean I guess I'm just imagining all of those Grand Masters still playing daily with no intent to stop.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

By cheesing a room for an hour. Only to get blue cores and Orokin cells. It used to put me to sleep. 

The thing is, now you're just cheesing multiple random mandatory missions for an hour. You get everything without using any gameplay features and you pretty much do nothing all the time. The most interactive part of fissure gameplay is picking up lemons. That's it. 

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

21 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

It wasn't perfect, but it was something. Now you can just go rank 0 volt into a fissure with your "whatever" relic and leech off your teammates. No effort or gear required. This system rewards laziness, promotes low skill, low gear, low effort gameplay. I don't know who thought void 2.0 was a good idea. Relic system is ok on paper, in reality it leaves you with faceless rewards relic "Whatever B1" and on one hand allows you to cheese through easy mandatory missions picking up lemons, on the other hand forbids people with better gear from enjoying the game - not rewarding for the time and effort people put to max the said gear; not allowing to test it to full potential. 

Actually you still need to do the full tutorial and then some to even unlock the ability to do fissures so you're wrong right away. Relics are waaay better than the old system just because it's something new, but it could still use some tweaks to actually be complete

[Vox_Preliator]

To answer your questions:  Alone, Nah, Nope, and Absolutely.  What exactly is the purpose of these questions?

38 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

You ever thought why there's so many of them?

Because there have been people claiming Warframe is dying pretty much since its release.  Much like what happens with just about any given game.  The example I always go back to is Team Fortress 2, according to the community it's been dying or outright dead for the past ten years, meanwhile it's the #4 top game on Steam with nearly 50k players right this very minute.

Forgive us for being skeptical when we've seen the exact same thread again, and again, and again with no noticeable difference from previous incarnations.  If you have anything new to say, I haven't seen it yet.

Under all the doomsaying, there's a nugget of proper feedback, but it's buried beneath such an air of superiority it's not productive to actually discuss it here.

Besides, if I were to stop playing this very second, I'd still have played nearly a thousand hours and maybe have done a third of the available content.  Honestly, in what world do you live in where a player playing for a thousand hours before being replaced by a new player would not be considered a grand success?

Edited June 2, 2017 by Vox_Preliator

[artemisfortune]

3 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

This issue was unattended for more than half-a-year now. I've been watching almost all devstreams during that time frame - never heard a word about it. You don't get it, people who disagree with the current state of things rarely go to forums (yes, even with all the necroposts like this - it's just a fraction of those who agree with my position) - they just delete Warframe and never come back. Nobody's waiting for a "bright future" to come. People don't buy that sh*t - and they most certainly don't buy prime access.

Endgame shouldn't be one faction. It would be a huge letdown. Raids are bad because they're not designed with repetitive grind in mind.

http://steamcharts.com/app/230410

So, I'll just stop you right there. Warframe is not dying or losing players. Sure, people with 3000 hours get bored, uninstall the game, and come back after a few major updates. I've done it myself. In fact, Warframe is one of the few games to hold my attention for so long. Plenty of people buy prime access. I swear it's like I stepped in on the Mayan's making their famous calendar.

Maybe you're right, but I'd love to see real end game introduced with the Sentients being the focal point first, then ween in the other factions into their own full fledged, skill orient raids.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

8 minutes ago, Redthirst said:

Honestly, the moment they let Raids be completed solo is the moment Raids become as worthless as all the other content in this game. The reason why i consider Raids to be an actually good content is that it's the only content in the game that actively requires coordination between the players.

As to the issues with Raids, one of the main ones is that there's just so much time you can run the same two raids over and over before it becomes boring, but DE don't want to design new Raids. Secondary issue is the simple fact that you can still cheese the Raids just how you can cheese every other content in the game, meaning that once you know the strategy there is no way you can really fail the Raid, since executing that strategy isn't very hard. But knowing Warframe community, making Raids harder would only decrease the amount of people that play them even further.

One of the big problems with that (people not wanting harder content) is the fact that you lose everything if you fail a mission. A big reason im hesitant now to go longer in missions when playing public is if someone does leave, theres a high chance the game will freeze after everyone loads back in. You only have the option to leave, but if you leave, you lose everything. 

[Xion]

1: I play alone. My only "friends" in this game are my clan mates, and I rarely run missions with them, just chat.

2: I go into random queues. I solo. I almost never go into set up parties.

3: Yes, I buy most new primes, but not with real money. All the plat I have has been acquired through trading. I pay for Tennogen and Prime accessories if I like them, though.

4: Yes because WF has constantly been changing, adding onto the formula little by little.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Someone had to do it. Might as well be me.

Spoiler

 

[KIREEK]

I will keep playing.

Why? because it's not the weapons or the endgame that is appealing to me, it's the gameplay.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Huh?

What?

Youtube comment section. Nicknames. 

5 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Seriously, stop trying to talk as if you know the hearts and minds of every single player who has ever touched this game.

I talk with a lot of people. I hear two major points of opinion: "everything is bad" and "everything is fine". Among the first group there are people who could get really salty but sometimes they offer critique (valid or not isn't up to me to decide). Second group is a cheerful one - the most criticism they offer is usually directed the members of the first group personally (it's life I guess).

11 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Actually you still need to do the full tutorial and then some to even unlock the ability to do fissures so you're wrong right away.

 Yeah, I forgot about the tutorial. Sorry. My bad. 

12 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Because there have been people claiming Warframe is dying pretty much since its release. 

And Warframe almost died right after the release (technically the game is still in beta but whatever). It's the community feedback, money and a lot of effort on DE's part that saved the game back then. I imagine there was a lot of "everything is fine" people back then. If DE were to listen to those people, Warframe wouldn't have existed today. That's a fact. 

[Darkvramp]

6 minutes ago, Redthirst said:

Honestly, the moment they let Raids be completed solo is the moment Raids become as worthless as all the other content in this game. The reason why i consider Raids to be an actually good content is that it's the only content in the game that actively requires coordination between the players.

As to the issues with Raids, one of the main ones is that there's just so much time you can run the same two raids over and over before it becomes boring, but DE don't want to design new Raids. Secondary issue is the simple fact that you can still cheese the Raids just how you can cheese every other content in the game, meaning that once you know the strategy there is no way you can really fail the Raid, since executing that strategy isn't very hard. But knowing Warframe community, making Raids harder would only decrease the amount of people that play them even further.

The main problem in raids, is there is no purpose to specific frames. there needs to be a use for the frame other than cc and sustain. Inaros can do all the content in the raid without problem. I understand the entire game has been where you can take any frame and do its content. But if i can do a raid without any real decision on what i bring besides energy pool, which is not a real compelling requirement to bring a frame specifically.

Making the weapons used matter, making you bring weapons with different weapon damages on them should play a part.

Making content in the raid matter whether you bring a cc or a tank or a healer or whatever. Making things you have followed up by the choices you make matter is what make s a raid feel and play good.

[DSpite]

23 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

You ever thought why there's so many of them?

Yes.

It's a game. People start up games and leave games all the time. EVE Online is 10+ years old, "veterans" still leave, and would have left regardless because I don't think you have the faintest idea about the simple fact that people get older and RL situations change.

Also, I don't care how much content a game keeps adding, because the CORE GAME will always revolve around a small set of mechanics, and eventually you will start to find those mechanics repetitive.

I currently rotate Factorio, Warframe, Tera, Guild Wars 2 and Therian Saga because they all contain enough variety among the genres.

I played almost every decent mod and addon for Skyrim I could get my hands on, and it STILL became repetitive enough for me to need a break. I have maybe 5000+ hours in Borderlands because I ran computer stores and we had LAN weekends with often nothing but either Supreme Commander or Borderlands.

It does not matter how many people "leave" as long as the game can also attract new players, and those players play for a hundred hours or so and inject a bit of cash into the game so the game can continue to change.

 

 

[ashrah]

i stop to play  now.. i really dont have any goal in game now..   void was been my thing but rewards are really pathetic...

[Redthirst]

1 minute ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

One of the big problems with that (people not wanting harder content) is the fact that you lose everything if you fail a mission. A big reason im hesitant now to go longer in missions when playing public is if someone does leave, theres a high chance the game will freeze after everyone loads back in. You only have the option to leave, but if you leave, you lose everything. 

I mean, I'll be fair here - current Warframe can't really make harder missions that don't feel like complete bullS#&$. Because the only way DE knows how to make the game harder is to use their broken scaling. So "hard" Warframe is Warframe where you get one-shot by enemies that are massive bullet sponges.

[Xekrin]

4 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I talk with a lot of people.

A lot, not all.  Perfectly valid to say "fewer veterans" because it would at least be more likely than "no veterans".  That's all I'm saying, it would cause a lot less drama.  Most of the replies so far have been "speak for yourself" and so on, people don't like words put into their mouths for them.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

21 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

The thing is, now you're just cheesing multiple random mandatory missions for an hour. You get everything without using any gameplay features and you pretty much do nothing all the time. The most interactive part of fissure gameplay is picking up lemons. That's it. 

At least the scenery changes, and I have a lot better chance at getting what I want. And that's kinda the point 

Edited June 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Just now, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

At least the scenery changes, and I have a lot better chance at getting what I want. 

We only have so many tilesets. 

[Moysa]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

P.P.S.
Guys in the comments, if this post doesn't get deleted instantly, if you wanna tell me how much you enjoy Warframe after playing for 3000 hours, first ask the questions below:
- Do you play alone or with a bunch of friends distracting you all the time?
- Do you play in random que?
- Do you often pay to skip the game? - (I understand that Prime access is Warframe's bread and butter, but it is what it is - you pay to skip the farm. Same goes for Day1 packs.)
- Do you really honestly think that Warframe's gameplay stands on its own?

1 most of the time, alone. i have no friends that play this anymore. (insert forever alone meme)

2 yes. quite often

3 ive been around only since vauban prime access was out. ive bought all but oberons prime access, and the final tier of....i think it was valks with the primed liset and operator suit.

4 considering ive been playing this day in and day out since i started.....damn, its been almost a year. anyway, since i started almost a year ago, and most games i've normally filed away and never touched again, id have to say yes

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

4 minutes ago, Redthirst said:

I mean, I'll be fair here - current Warframe can't really make harder missions that don't feel like complete bullS#&$. Because the only way DE knows how to make the game harder is to use their broken scaling. So "hard" Warframe is Warframe where you get one-shot by enemies that are massive bullet sponges.

Agreed. Current warframe...heres to hoping they figure that part out. I personally havnt touched any of the new stuff. I still have no clue how to do kuva missions and dont care. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

We only have so many tilesets. 

But it still changes, and We are not stuck in a level 10-15 defense for 20 waves only to get a forma. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

A lot, not all.  Perfectly valid to say "fewer veterans" because it would at least be more likely than "no veterans".  That's all I'm saying, it would cause a lot less drama.  Most of the replies so far have been "speak for yourself" and so on, people don't like words put into their mouths for them.

I never claimed that I speak for everyone. But I understand what you mean by that. Yet, it's not the point of this argument. 

Let me just summ it up like this:
 There might or may not be a problem - with the endgame, with the game in general. One half of the player base thinks there is a problem. Another half of the player base thinks there is none. Maybe everything is really fine, but if there was a chance that something's going wrong, is it wise to ignore that other half? Cause "everything is fine" group by definition never offers any feedback. They wouldn't notice if there was a problem in the first place. 
 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

- Do you play alone or with a bunch of friends distracting you all the time? Yes
- Do you play in random que? Yes
- Do you often pay to skip the game? - (I understand that Prime access is Warframe's bread and butter, but it is what it is - you pay to skip the farm. Same goes for Day1 packs.) Depends 
- Do you really honestly think that Warframe's gameplay stands on its own?Yes

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

But it still changes, and We are not stuck in a level 10-15 defense for 20 waves only to get a forma.

I'd say we're stuck in lvl 10-15 random missions for hours and hours, and hours for the sake of another weapon that will just oneshot everything you usually meet in the game - same as the previous one. I never said old void was "good". It was still better than what we have now, but the main issue I have with current fissures is that they don't require any effort. It's just a waste of time for the sake of wasting time that doesn't encourage you to explore any game's mechanics except picking up lemons.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I never claimed that I speak for everyone. But I understand what you mean by that. Yet, it's not the point of this argument. 

Let me just summ it up like this:
 There might or may not be a problem - with the endgame, with the game in general. One half of the player base thinks there is a problem. Another half of the player base thinks there is none. Maybe everything is really fine, but if there was a chance that something's going wrong, is it wise to ignore that other half? Cause "everything is fine" group by definition never offers any feedback. They wouldn't notice if there was a problem in the first place. 
 

Or maybe this game is causal to some and we like to play it casual.