Conclave Update Ideas - Let's get people playing again!

[Ev1dentFir31]

Conclave Update Ideas - Let's get people playing again!

 

First off a lot of this is my personal opinion and ideas, but I have done a lot of research and have seen that others for the most part agree with me. So keeping that in mind I am going to give my feedback based on my personal experiences alone. I look forward to my fellow tenno’s thoughts and constructive criticism. I know it's long, but I promise you that it's worth it if you take the time to read. If you do read it all, thanks :)

The 3 main issues that Conclave has are:

1. Not enough players
2. Not enough mods
3. We don’t like our warframes being dumbed down for PVP (Which in turn are the cause of #1 and #2)

What I am proposing is how to fix this, and if executed correctly could I believe completely turn the Conclave of warframe into a new attractive feature allowing Warframe to evolve into a game that attracts a whole new breed of players. This will be done with a new two part system. A Power Level based matching system, and a Guided Mod system.

The biggest problem for me, and from the forum research I have done a lot of other players is that when you go into a conclave match your warframes skills are drastically diminished to the point where it’s not fun to play. On top of that with everyone bullet jumping around can be even more aggravating for new players. In the next few paragraphs I will discuss in detail the two new systems, and how they would better the matching process for Conclave.

 

Power LVL System

This new system will take into account the total power of the warframe, primary, secondary, and melee power level’s and will show the total level of the warframe based on all the stat’s combined. I have created a rough warframe power lvl calculator in google docs =>here<=. (Clicking the yellow tiles will show my equations) As you can see in the spreadsheet I have put together 2 optimum builds for Ember Prime and Frost Prime, along with an Excalibur with beginner gear and some base mods, and a completely new Volt frame with base weapons and no mods all level 0. I have taken their Weapon Attack Power, Frame  Defense Power, and Frame Ability and combined them into a single rounded total Power Level Value that was divided by 1000 to give a 2 digit Power Level. Using this system then matches would be paired by only putting players into servers with other players that have a +/- 5 levels of them. This system pretty much runs in the background of Warframe and isn't seen by the players, it's just used for creating matches. If matches can't be created using +/- 5 levels then it will try +/- 10 levels.

 

Conclave Mastery System and Guided Mod System

OK so here is where it really counts. In Conclave we are sick of using warframes that are just as powerful as the beginner frames we started the game with. I would rather run 25 solo waves of Akkad and fail then play PVP because it’s still more fun. But that being said if we just let everyone go into Conclave with their own mod builds you will get that guy who goes into it with 1 OP weapon and no mods on the rest of his gear so he can cheat the power level system and look good while doing it. To avoid this I proposed a Conclave Mastery and Guided Mod System that allows players who win matches to earn “Mod Points” to level up their warframe and weapons. It’s important to note that the Conclave Mastery System will completely replace the Warframe and Weapons default level system, and in doing so we insure that each Conclave player progresses at a steady and even rate.

At the end of each match you will earn experience based on your total kills/deaths/assists and a bonus for winning. Let’s say for the sake of argument that each are worth the following; Kill = 500xp | Death = -250xp | Assists = 150xp | Winning = 2000xp bonus. And if you enter a match and have 0 kills but 5 deaths you earn 0xp because you can’t lose from a match. This experience will allow you to rank up in Conclave Mastery Levels. Unlike PVE where your Mastery Level is assigned to your tenno specifically. Conclave Mastery Level is unique to the warframe itself.

Let’s say you start playing Volt and rank him up to Mastery Level 30, then you decide to start playing Ivara. Ivara will start at Mastery 0 because you have never used her before. Also you must own a Warframe to play it in Conclave. And Prime versions of a warframe are still separate warframes, so you would have to level Ash and Ash Prime separately for example.

What happens when you rank up your Conclave Mastery?

Ranking up in Conclave Mastery will award you with a single mod point for your; Warframe, Primary, Secondary, and Melee slots. If you have just leveled up from Mastery 0 to Mastery 1. You now have 4 points to spend on your Warframe and Weapons, 1 point for each. So what you must do with your first point is choose the mod you want to have next. Your Conclave Arsenal will automatically open and you can spend your Mod Points. For you warframe you might want to add some extra shields to your frame so you choose Redirection. The base rank of Redirection costs 4 mod points. Since you chose Redirection you have just assigned 1 point to it, and assigned it to a mod slot, but…. The mod is not active yet until you gain 3 more mastery levels. Since you chose Redirection which costs a total of 4, the first point you assign to it set’s it in a slot, but for the next 3 mastery levels your Warframe Mod Points will automatically be set to the mod till it is completed at lvl 4. When the mod is completed you will get a notification and you will see a popup that shows you your increased stats.

OK so now you’re at mastery rank 5. At level 4 you just finished redirection and not your ready to choose another mod to start earning. When you are at the upgrade screen you now see even more mods to choose from than before. This is because your mastery rank is now higher. Also you see a button underneath redirection that looks like the mod fusion icon. You click it, and it asks you if you want to spend your mod point to upgrade this mod. You accept and instead of choosing another mod to start earning you have now just increased your shields by another 20% and now your mod has a drain of 5, which is exactly how many mod points you have spent on it. After leaving the upgrade screen you see the increased status popup same as when you complete a mod. It’s important to note that you can not leave your Conclave Arsenal with unspent mod points.

Forma in Conclave

OK so I’m sure by now you're asking me, What if I want to forma a mod slot? If you want to forma a mod the mod must meet a condition first, and that is that the mod must be at max fusion level. When you have maxed out the fusion on a mod the fusion button will change to a forma button, and you can spend an additional mod point to do this, but as a reward for doing so you will also gain back half of the mod points spent during the process so you can upgrade additional mods. This is the ONLY way to regain already used Mod Points. At higher mastery levels it takes longer to level so this Forma system will allow you continue to boost your Total Power Level by regaining those spent Mod Points and getting a quick start on a new mod, or getting a powerful boost by using Fusion on one or more mods!

Switching Warframes

This part is simple, each Warframe has it's own Conclave Mastery Level and Load outs. You can only use the Warframes you have already crafted, and you must individually gain Mastery Levels for each one.

Switching Weapons

Let’s say you decide to change weapons. You go from using a Supra that deals mostly Puncture damage to using a Amprex that uses Electricity. All of your mods and forma’d slots will stay as they are, this keeps it fair, and makes sure you have to think about your conclave builds before assigning formas.

Changing Mods

You might decide that you want to take off that electricity mod that you applied to your Supra. Well you can’t just take off mods. Once you have allocated a mod point to a mod it’s permanently there. But the exception to this rule are status mods. These mods for rifles include: Crash Course, Fanged Fusillade, Piercing Hit, Hellfire, Cryo Rounds, Stormbringer, and Infected Clip. While switching out these mods will not cost any Mod Points it will cost you 20k credits each time. The following Mods; Thermite Rounds, Rime Rounds, Malignant Force, and High Voltage can also be switched out for 40k credits. The same system applies for the equivalent mods of secondary and melee weapons.

What if I want to reset all of my mods for a specific Warframe?

Like I have stated before, you shouldn’t be thinking about how your building your warframe as you gain mastery, BUT… if you do want to reset a warframe you can do so, but it’s not going to be cheap! For each level of your warframe you will have to spend 100,000 credits to reset it. That means that if your warframes mastery is at lvl 50, then it’s going to cost you 5,000,000 credits to reset it’s mods. Don’t have a lot of credits? You can purchase a Conclave Mod Wipe from the market for 500 platinum!

Unlocking the Conclave

OK so, basically I now that I’m asking for a lot here and I would assume that if all of this were added to the game it would be via a massive “Conclave 2.0 Update!” Currently I think the game modes we have are good to go, but with such a huge update Conclave will need an attractive in game face lift. Well why don’t we use the last room inside of our ship? Just imagine that you walk up to the door of the back right room, and you get a prompt that says, “Press X to enter the Virtual Room.” You press “X” and the door opens. Your warframe automatically walks into a dark foggy room. The camera zooms in to the new Conclave menu where your Active Conclave Warframe is on display. If this were implemented all players new and old would need to do this mission to unlock the new Conclave.

 

To unlock this room you would of course need to complete an early game mission called, “A Hacked Subspace”

 

• Mission 1: You would gain access after you reach Mastery Lvl 3 and the lotus will message you and tell her that the Corpus are attacking the destroyed Strata Relay, and she needs you to stop it. You would then travel to once Strata Relay and engage in a Archwing Exterminate mission to destroy all the corpus. During the mission dialog she informs you that they must be looking for something. There is also an unidentified transmission Lotus Intercepts during mission dialog of a corpus voice telling everyone to take what they found and evacuate as fast as possible. The Lotus assumes that you have succeeded and nothing was taken. 
• Mission 2: Upon completion of this mission you receive a transmission from Teshin, the leader of the Conclave. He informs you that the subspace network that runs his Conclave matches is being hacked, and that several Tenno have been attacked and their warframes stolen! He is asking for our help to find out what is going on. The lotus informs Teshin of the situation on the Status Relay. Teshin reply's saying that there is only 1 person that would benefit from seeing the conclave fall. It must be Nef Anyo the leader of the Index. The Lotus tells you to sneak aboard his ship and hack the computers to find out if he's involved.
• Mission 3: On mission 2 you discover that Nef Anyo has indeed hired another Copus leader known as "The Sergeant" to steal warframes from the Conclave members. The Sergeant was the one that actually attacked the Strata Relay and it would appear that your efforts to stop him from failed. He was able to escape with a Subspace Network Module, but you do not know where he is. Ordis informs you that if you can head to the destroyed Vesper Relay and get it's Subspace Network Module before The Sergeant does then we might be able to use it to track him. You travel to the once Vesper Relay for a Spy mission to recover the Subspace Network Module.
• Mission 4:  Upon returning to your ship Ordis informs you that the module is not compatible with the ship, but you can use the forge to modify it and get it working. After you craft the working Subspace Network Module in the forge you install it on your ship in the Subspace Communications Station. (What used to be the conclave station) After it's installed Ordis informs you that is was a success and he was able to tack the location of The Sergeant. You must now board his ship, assassinate him, and recover the stolen module so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands again. 
• Mission Conclusion: After you complete the last mission Teshin asks you if you have a Virtual Room aboard your ship. Ordis replies that yes your ship does, but he has not tested it's operation yet due to other non operational systems taking priority. Teshin then tells you that he is sending your a personal network access key to The Conclave Subspace Network. He informs you that with a Virtual Room connected to the Subspace your more then welcome to join the Conclave and challenge other Tenno from across the galaxy in many different PVP game modes. The Lotus tells you to go give it a try, as fighting other Tenno can give you invaluable training!

 

Conclusion:

Well I hope you guys like this. This is basically if I was a game dev, I would do to fix the conclave, and attract players to it. I honestly think that doing this would create something sustainable that the current Conclave is missing. With these changes the conclave would no longer be a small feature hidden on the left side of your ship. It would be a massive feature, with hours of progression added to the game. Feel free to leave your constructive comments below! 

[Witchydragon]

1 hour ago, Ev1dentFir31 said:

We don’t like our warframes being dumbed down for PVP (Which in turn are the cause of #1 and #2)

They are not "dumbed down" for PvP. If anything the opposite is the case; Warframe abilities that are drastically altered for PvP tend to be more mechanically complex. If you are referring to the mobility disparity, it still remains the case. The effect of sliding is reduced, so players have to find alternative, more complex maneuvers to get around the map faster and avoid fire. Mobility can be increased to 1.2 times the speed of standard PvE speeds. 

Regarding the rest of the thread, the additional gear checking, leveling and 'progression' would just add to the new player/veteran performance gap, which is already massive compared to other pvp shooters. While a skill gap is normal, it should not be artificially reinforced by numbers and mod points. Your proposed systems also takes what many people hate about Archwing- completely separate mods and skillsets.

1 hour ago, Ev1dentFir31 said:

with hours of progression added to the game.

Many people still have not leveled their archwing equipment, despite that also offering "hours of progression". Not to mention Conclave already has hours of progression, except many people come back to it after getting all the rewards they want, because Conclave also offers a unique and thrilling experience. 

1 hour ago, Ev1dentFir31 said:

In Conclave we are sick of using warframes that are just as powerful as the beginner frames we started the game with. I would rather run 25 solo waves of Akkad and fail then play PVP because it’s still more fun.

Excuse me, who is this "we"? All frames (and weapons) are fitted to be equally powerful in the Conclave because the players that play the most thoughtfully and the most skillfully win matches, not the player that just bought the new Prime Access or have the oldest/most expensive weapons, and increases the effective playerbase.

Your power level system seems pointless and easily exploitable when you'll be meeting players of similar power level. It's essentially the same thing as the old Conclave Rating system, which never really influenced Conclave. However, in your proposed form, people will be able to unequip all their weapons except a primary and just supercharge that. While that may sound like an interesting tradeoff, in reality that would become the most effective way to play. If you did require everyone to have a full loadout or calculate power level differently, then there's no practical difference between this system and a static loadout enviornment where mods come with tradeoffs that allow you to min/max different aspects of a frame/weapon, other than separating the playerbase by experience, which is already being addressed with Recruit Conditioning.

 

[Ev1dentFir31]

23 minutes ago, Witchydragon said:

They are not "dumbed down" for PvP. If anything the opposite is the case; Warframe abilities that are drastically altered for PvP tend to be more mechanically complex. 

By dumbed down Im talking to stats such as Efficiency, Duration, Range, attack speed, lack if elemental damage, and the many other stats that you cant manipulate with the current Conclave Mod System.

And there are even some Wareframes with dumbed down powers, like Ash's #4 its completely broken... So yeah dumbed down was the word I meant to use.

30 minutes ago, Witchydragon said:

 All frames (and weapons) are fitted to be equally powerful in the Conclave because the players that play the most thoughtfully and the most skillfully win matches, not the player that just bought the new Prime Access or have the oldest/most expensive weapons, and increases the effective playerbase.

Your power level system seems pointless and easily exploitable when you'll be meeting players of similar power level.

Them all being at the same lvl is exactly the issue. Its BORING. You may not agree but read some posts in this feedback forum/warframe reddit/ect. that talk about the issues with conclave. Its a main topic.

And you must not understand my system because what you said. Buying prime access has absolutely nothing to do with Conclave, and nether does the weapons you use. The Conclave mastery level is separate from your Power Level. I said before the power level isn't seen by the player, its only used for the matching system. So how is that exploitable?

 

Also where did I say that they would be able to unequip weapons. Im sure I clearly stated that they can't leave the conclave arsenal with unspent mod points. That would mean you would have to have a weapon equiped to use said mod points right?

Also I didn't say anything about people hating archwing? Did you actually read the whole post?

[SevenLetterKWord]

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I am going to give my feedback based on my personal experiences alone.

^{(This looks like approximately ten matches, or an hour and a half of gameplay.)}

^{(Mistral is the first rank of Conclave.)}

So, not a lot to go on.

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The 3 main issues that Conclave has are:

1. Not enough players
2. Not enough mods
3. We don’t like our warframes being dumbed down for PVP (Which in turn are the cause of #1 and #2)

Actually, the main issues are:
1. Conclave (and Warframe in general) has a poor new player experience, seen primarily in a lack of in-game guidance for a highly complex environment.
2. Some players enter Conclave with grossly warped expectations, then they blame Conclave (or other players) when their own expectations fail them.
3. People with basically no experience in Conclave - and questionable experience in game design - keep proposing sweeping changes to Conclave.

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The biggest problem for me, and from the forum research I have done a lot of other players is that when you go into a conclave match your warframes skills are drastically diminished to the point where it’s not fun to play.

Your Warframe's abilities are diminished to the point where you can't just activate World on Fire and sleep your way to success.
That's what makes Conclave fun to play.

Maybe you're used to playing PvE, where you can press 4, clear a room of AI enemies, walk into the next room, and press 4 again.
Well, AI enemies don't mind dying to tactics which require absolutely no effort or skill whatsoever.

But if you and your whole team in Conclave died because a single opponent walked into your room and pressed 4, that would be incredibly annoying.
Clearly we cannot allow such a thing in Conclave.

When I want to watch hordes of Grineer die because I looked in their general direction, I will play PvE.
When I want a challenging and engaging experience, I will play Conclave.

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Power LVL System
This new system will take into account the total power of the warframe, primary, secondary, and melee power level’s...
I have created a rough warframe power lvl calculator in google docs...

Bad news: your entire spreadsheet is irrelevant because you're using PvE stats and PvE mods.
Equipment in Conclave is balanced such that basically all frames and weapons are equally viable.

I have seen some players complain about this (due to their grossly warped expectations).
They say, "How is my Latron Prime losing to that guy's Latron?"
It is because that guy is a better player, and Conclave rewards the skillful, not the grind-endowed.

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Conclave Mastery System and Guided Mod System
OK so here is where it really counts. In Conclave we are sick of using warframes that are just as powerful as the beginner frames we started the game with...
To avoid this I proposed a Conclave Mastery and Guided Mod System that allows players who win matches to earn “Mod Points” to level up their warframe and weapons. It’s important to note that the Conclave Mastery System will completely replace the Warframe and Weapons default level system, and in doing so we insure that each Conclave player progresses at a steady and even rate.

What happens when you rank up your Conclave Mastery?
Forma in Conclave
Switching Warframes
Switching Weapons
Changing Mods
What if I want to reset all of my mods for a specific Warframe?

With all these "redesigns", you're not even talking about Conclave anymore. In fact, this sounds like some weird Injustice clone.
"Grind so you can play against other players who have grinded approximately the same amount."

Gaining power through grinding is a terrible design for a competitive PvP environment like Conclave.
Progression in Conclave should be tied to the development of skill. Players should not be more powerful just because they've played more.

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Unlocking the Conclave

This is all ridiculous.
Conclave shouldn't be hidden behind PvE walls. Frankly, Conclave is already too closely associated with PvE.

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With these changes the conclave would no longer be a small feature hidden on the left side of your ship.

It's on the right side of your ship.

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5 hours ago, murdello said:

great idea, please implement

No need to bump bad threads with your banal irony.

Edited June 7, 2017 by SevenLetterKWord

[--.69-JP3GMD-69.nVbs.--]

great idea, please implement

[Ev1dentFir31]

On 6/2/2017 at 5:11 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

Actually, the main issues are:
1. Conclave (and Warframe in general) has a poor new player experience, seen primarily in a lack of in-game guidance for a highly complex environment.
2. Some players enter Conclave with grossly warped expectations, then they blame Conclave (or other players) when their own expectations fail them.
3. People with basically no experience in Conclave - and questionable experience in game design - keep proposing sweeping changes to Conclave.

It's at this point I just realized that your a salty person, who may have been around a while, and thinks that just because your one of the few that actually climbed the pointless conclave ladder your entitled to treat the rest of the players like we are not allowed to have our opinions. Sure I have not put a lot of effort into Conclave, why? Well because it sucks, plain and simple. I have not ranked up because there is absolutely nothing to gain from it except junk mods you can only use in conclave, and some silly skins.

 

On 6/2/2017 at 5:11 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

Your Warframe's abilities are diminished to the point where you can't just activate World on Fire and sleep your way to success.
That's what makes Conclave fun to play.

I'm well aware that the warframes powers have been augmented to be equal, and I'm not saying they shouldn't stay that way.

What I'm saying is that they should be up-gradable just like in PVE, by using the mods we are already use. We need a way to build your stats back up by using mods, and to play with other players who have warframes that are just as powerful as yours. I mean yeah it would be totally stupid if they added Firequake to the mix.

 

On 6/2/2017 at 5:11 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

Bad news: your entire spreadsheet is irrelevant because you're using PvE stats and PvE mods.

Yeah just proves you didn't fully read/understand the concept, the point is to being most of the PVE mods into PVP to allow us to power up our warframes the more we play, thus making that table a perfect example of how it could work, the table has absolutely nothing to do with the current way conclave works.
Maybe you were to busy over analyzing everything you were gonna be salty about?

On 6/2/2017 at 5:11 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

I have seen some players complain about this (due to their grossly warped expectations).

The only thing I "expected" was for it not to suck so bad, but hey we can't have everything can we.

On 6/2/2017 at 5:11 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

With all these "redesigns", you're not even talking about Conclave anymore. In fact, this sounds like some weird Injustice clone.
"Grind so you can play against other players who have grinded approximately the same amount."

Never played Injustice, but I'm pretty sure players I would rather play with players who are on my lvl, that's what grind and play with players who have grinded as much as you have means to me...

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This is all ridiculous.
Conclave shouldn't be hidden behind PvE walls. Frankly, Conclave is already too close

What's wrong with adding a little story to it? Salty much?

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great idea, please implement

No need to bump bad threads with your banal irony.

Had to get the last shake out of your salt shaker didn't ya? lol

Edited June 13, 2017 by Ev1dentFir31

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

Conclave is fine. Unlike pve we don't need constant additional new content. Only balancing (which we haven't gotten for weapons that are op like the daikyu) 

[SevenLetterKWord]

1 hour ago, Ev1dentFir31 said:

It's at this point I just realized that your a salty person, who may have been around a while, and thinks that just because your one of the few that actually climbed the pointless conclave ladder your entitled to treat the rest of the players like we are not allowed to have our opinions.

Nonsense.
You are certainly allowed to have your own ideas!
Similarly, I am allowed to inform everyone that your ideas in particular are grossly flawed.

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Sure I have not put a lot of effort into Conclave, why? Well because it sucks, plain and simple.

"Sure I have invested no effort in understanding the environment that I am commenting on. It doesn't mean my comments are valueless, right?"
Would you take chess advice from someone who doesn't even know how the pieces move?
You'll excuse me if I remain unmoved by your abject lack of experience.

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I have not ranked up because there is absolutely nothing to gain from it except junk mods you can only use in conclave, and some silly skins.

Classic grinder's mentality, "I play games to get things to play games faster."
Play Conclave because you enjoy it, not because you think it'll give you bigger numbers.
_{(If you don't enjoy it, then don't play. I don't enjoy checkers, so I don't play checkers. But you also don't see me posting misguided and fundamentally flawed "Checkers Update Ideas".)}

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Yeah just proves you didn't fully read/understand the concept

Actually, I promise you that I put more effort into examining your spreadsheet than any other poster here.
It seems you want a full breakdown of why your spreadsheet is useless. I am happy to oblige:

1. Your measure of "Warframe Power" is literally just a sum of Armor, Energy, Health, Shield, Duration, 100+Efficiency, Range, and Strength.
   This is a terrible rating system. The value of Armor increases nonlinearly. The synergy between Armor and Health is nonlinear. Efficiency is nonlinear.
   The relevance of the four power-related stats varies greatly depending on the frame in question. You have severely oversimplified.
2. Your measure of "Ram Damge [sic]" is literally just a sum of all damage types, multiplied by the fire rate.
   This is a terrible rating system. It fails to consider accuracy, projectile vs hitscan, magazine size, reload, AoE, range, and a host of other pertinent stats.
   Even worse, it assumes all damage types are of equal value, which is a laughable premise. In PvP, elements like Toxin are clearly superior to elements like Blast.
3. Your spreadsheet includes measures of "Critical Power", "Critical Chance", and "Critical Multiplyer [sic]".
   Critical hits were deliberately removed from Conclave to increase the influence of skill over chance; this entire section is irrelevant.
4. Your measure of "Total Power LVL" is literally just a sum of your Warframe, Primary, Secondary, and Melee "Power" ratings.
   This is a terrible rating system. A player cannot simultaneously use all three weapons; why are they weighted the same as the frame, which is always in use?
   A player with a great frame+primary and deliberately bad secondary+melee would be rated the same as another player with all mediocre equipment.
   In actual gameplay, the former player would have a significant advantage.
5. And the final and greatest flaw: Your entire spreadsheet is still irrelevant because you're using PvE stats and PvE mods.

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the point is to being most of the PVE mods into PVP to allow us to power up our warframes the more we play, thus making that table a perfect example of how it could work, the table has absolutely nothing to do with the current way conclave works.

PvE mods are not even remotely balanced. They certainly do not belong in a competitive environment.

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The only thing I "expected" was for it not to suck so bad, but hey we can't have everything can we.

Ah, I see here you ran out of almost-legitimate arguments and had to resort to explicitly illegitimate arguments.
What a shame.

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Never played Injustice, but I'm pretty sure players I would rather play with players who are on my lvl, that's what grind and play with players who have grinded as much as you have means to me...

We're not playing Runescape here. Conclave emphasizes skill over grind.
Why even bother introducing a grind? Just so you can have grind-based matchmaking? That would be useless.
A skilled player who has grinded for 100 hours will always be better than an unskilled player who has grinded for 100 hours.

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What's wrong with adding a little story to it?

As I said before: "Conclave shouldn't be hidden behind PvE walls."

1 hour ago, Ev1dentFir31 said:

salty
salty
Salty
salt

I can see you're really good at crying "salt", but I'm afraid it won't legitimize your arguments.