Ash Fatal Teleport+Covert Lethality Build Advice

[Valkyr-Umbra]

So, I'm working on a  Fatal teleport/covert lethality build, mostly messing around, but I'd like it to function pretty well. My plan was to go max range/duration/efficiency for teleport spam/smoke bomb CC, and to run Naramon for perma-invis from melee crits (I wanted to rely on smoke bomb for CC rather than invis). I've got arcane energize, so I'm thinking streamline over fleeting.

I figured since my dagger was going to be insta-killing most things via smoke bomb/teleport finisher, damage wouldn't be much of a concern, so it has the highest crit chance, Karyst would be the best dagger (for procing naramon invis).

So, basically, I've got several questions:

1. Is Karyst a good dagger choice for this build, given that I want to proc naramon?         (I know 10% crit chance is pretty S#&$, but I figured with blood rush/body count/true steel and deadly intent, I'd have over a 35% crit chance at 5 hits, and about 50% by 15 hits, so I could proc smoke bomb, melee some stuff, then rely on naramon for invisibility.)

2. If I channel life strike before/while initiating a smoke bomb finisher/fatal teleport, will I get lifesteal?

3. Do fury and arcane strike speed up finisher animations for Ash's smoke bomb finishers/fatal teleport like they do for his bladestorm?

4. Will melee range effect the range of initiating finishers from smoke bombs?

Beyond these questions, if anyone has any advice for the build/general feedback, or mod recommendations, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for your time :D

[(PSN)theelix]

1. Shadow Step is useless for a fatal teleport build. Mainly because you're Ash, have +50% power efficiency on Fatal Teleports, and have an invisibility skill already that lasts as long at base, and is generous towards a Fatal Teleport build. Just go buy Trickery from the Market. 

2. Yes. 

3. Yes. 

4. No. 

[Nazrethim]

23 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

So, I'm working on a  Fatal teleport/covert lethality build, mostly messing around, but I'd like it to function pretty well. My plan was to go max range/duration/efficiency for teleport spam/smoke bomb CC, and to run Naramon for perma-invis from melee crits (I wanted to rely on smoke bomb for CC rather than invis). I've got arcane energize, so I'm thinking streamline over fleeting.

Well, if you plan on using Smoke Screen for CC, lowest duration is more effective as you can run duration down to 1s, so you can cast it over and over. Though it isn't very effective vs Corpus (nullifiers, ospreys) or Infested/Corrupted (due to ancient healer aura). Smoke Screen is pretty bad on the CC department tbh.

23 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

I figured since my dagger was going to be insta-killing most things via smoke bomb/teleport finisher, damage wouldn't be much of a concern, so it has the highest crit chance, Karyst would be the best dagger (for procing naramon invis).

So, basically, I've got several questions:

1. Is Karyst a good dagger choice for this build, given that I want to proc naramon?         (I know 10% crit chance is pretty S#&$, but I figured with blood rush/body count/true steel and deadly intent, I'd have over a 35% crit chance at 5 hits, and about 50% by 15 hits, so I could proc smoke bomb, melee some stuff, then rely on naramon for invisibility.)

I've used this in the past and it works really well. Since damage isn't goint to be much of an issue I recommend to also equip Drifting Contact to maximize combo counter duration. Also, Blood Rush affects not the base but the crit chance you have other then Blood Rush, so deadly intent and true steel help a lot raise the crit.

23 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

2. If I channel life strike before/while initiating a smoke bomb finisher/fatal teleport, will I get lifesteal?

Yes, the Finisher is done with the melee weapon, so it will heal you. It is advised to go unranked Life Strike, as the always oneshot damage of FT+CL will always heal you back to full (and cap shield/overshield for Rakta Dark dagger users if the target is Rad procc'ed at the time you do the finisher)

23 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

3. Do fury and arcane strike speed up finisher animations for Ash's smoke bomb finishers/fatal teleport like they do for his bladestorm?

Yes. Finisher animations are affected by attack speed. However, there is a cap in attack speed. And unlike Blade Storm, that only benefits from Fury (P) and Quickening, Finishers with the melee weapon also benefit from buffs.

23 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

4. Will melee range effect the range of initiating finishers from smoke bombs?

Smoke Screen doesn't open enemies to Finishers, it's just a stagger. Since you are going to be using Fatal Teleport, melee range is not an issue as the finisher animation will start regardless of melee range.

23 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

Beyond these questions, if anyone has any advice for the build/general feedback, or mod recommendations, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for your time :D

Since you have Arcane Energize, I would recomend going with Streamline to keep some duration on you, Smoke Screen will be handy until you can get the counter high enough to always crit. You can also make use of Maiming Strike early on to get crits and trigger Naramon.

[Zeyez]

1° i prefer use Rakta Dark dagger, since this one has the faster finisher (tied with ceramic dagger), the passive effect that generate overshield while hitting enemies irradiated by it and the augment Gleaming Blight that can generate energy while equipped... so i'm not sure if i can answer your question, but since you want to rely on critical chance to keep your invisibility with naramon, Karyst become your best option, since the other daggers has only 5% critical chance

2° you will get lifesteal if you use channel before the finisher, and since you want to rely on it, you can use unranked Life Strike, Focus Energy and Reflex Coil for this move cost only 2 energy, plus Dispatch Overdrive to give +60% movement speed for 15 seconds, if you still have spare slots

3° (Primed) Fury increase the finisher's speed, but i'm not sure about arcane... if it works with bladestorm, like (Primed) Fury, probably will work with finishers

4° i'm not sure... but the smoke screen doesn't open any enemy to finisher, but in general, Fatal Teleport will put you on finisher's range already, if it fail to be triggered, you can try manually while the target is still stunned, and in that case, weapon's range will affect it, somewhat, you still can't trigger the finisher if you are outside of the normal's weapon reach, like i already experienced with other weapons, like Magistar... so, you can avoid use the (Primed) Reach on this case

 

to use an dagger only for finishers (relying on your warframe to open this possibility), you can use these mods:

Life Strike unranked (5% lifesteal from enemy's entire health is already too much)

Reflex Coil

Focus Energy (this one and the previous to reduce the channeling cost of the Life Strike to 2 energy)

Covert Lethality (default of the finisher's build)

(Primed) Fury (Mandatory mod for... any meele weapon)

 

other 3 at your choice, but i use these ones on my Rakta Dark Dagger:

Dispatch Overdrive (to grant +60% movement speed bonus for 2 energy, while regenerating my health)

Gleaming Blight (generate energy and give more chances to irradiate them before using the finisher, generating full overshield on demand)

Volcanic Edge (to combine with Focus Energy and generate even more chance for radiation, but you can use almost anything here)

Edited June 4, 2017 by Zeyez
like this topic, everything in the world can be changed, it just need the right words... and the left ones too.

[Valkyr-Umbra]

Lots of useful advice from everyone, thanks a bunch :D One of the useful things I like about naramon stealth is that nullifiers won't drag me out of stealth, and if I somehow end up running out of energy (not that I anticipate that happening much) I can just tag something with my melee for free invis.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

...

Ah, I was thinking that smoke screen worked more like radial blind, in that case, I'll definitely not worry about a max range/min duration build, and probably focus on duration a bit more. Good call on drifting contact to, with that plus body count, my combo should even last inbetween most defense waves.

This is the ash build I'm currently working towards: https://goo.gl/TKPyos I'm debating between a few different mods. Do you think I'd have enough range for teleport (at 29.4 meters) if I used narrow minded and offset it with a cunning drift? Or maybe it'd work better if I swapped out narrow minded for something like smoke shadow, constitution, rush, or armored agility?

41 minutes ago, Zeyez said:

...

Dispatch overdrive sounds like fun, think I'll probably throw that on my build. I'm 8 logins off from primed fury though, so considering that I'm using the slow-&#! Karyst, maybe I should prioritize quickening? 

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Snowman486

[Valkyr-Umbra]

EDIT: Screwed up on my build, just fixed it and the link.

[Nazrethim]

3 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

Ah, I was thinking that smoke screen worked more like radial blind, in that case, I'll definitely not worry about a max range/min duration build, and probably focus on duration a bit more. Good call on drifting contact to, with that plus body count, my combo should even last inbetween most defense waves.

Having positive Duration also works on Rising Storm. If you get your duration to 200% RS will grant you another 6s of combo counter. It used to also affect Body Count and Drifting Contact meaning you could get 60s long combo counter, but it was nerfed changed when Ash was nerfed Revisited

3 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

This is the ash build I'm currently working towards: https://goo.gl/0xAfoC I'm debating between a few different mods. Do you think I'd have enough range for teleport (at 29.4 meters) if I used narrow minded and offset it with a cunning drift? Or maybe it'd work better if I swapped out smoke shadow with a stretch, or even armored agility/rush? 

If you are going to use Fatal Teleport, at least 35m range is needed. I would advise to get a Primed Continuity and don't use Narrow Minded, or use a partially ranked one. As for drift, I don't really use them, Handspring and Enemy sense are my go-to mods since I can recover from knockdowns and know where there are enemies I can teleport to. Smoke Shadow is only good if you have both range and duration, and it's for team buff (or to conceal those pesky Defense/Rescue hostages so it's not that great.

3 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

Dispatch overdrive sounds like fun, think I'll probably throw that on my build. I'm 8 logins off from primed fury though, so considering that I'm using the slow-&#! Karyst, maybe I should prioritize quickening?

Quickening drains far too much energy for it's effect, you would fare better with Berserker if regular Fury isn't enough.

[Zeyez]

32 minutes ago, Snowman486 said:

Dispatch overdrive sounds like fun, think I'll probably throw that on my build. I'm 8 logins off from primed fury though, so considering that I'm using the slow-&#! Karyst, maybe I should prioritize quickening? 

 

Quickening will eat your energy as ******, don't do that... yet, take Berserker instead, since you will focus on critical chance already "

• Does not speed up the animation of Stealth Finishers

i looked at wikia just to be sure... but Berserker doesn't work with finishers

anyway, wait until Quickening start giving +50|75% attack speed at -40|60% channel efficiency every hit|swing... or make sure that the Trinity in your party is working as intended

but on this case... ignore this mod that even exist, you don't have many spare slots, anyway

 

If you still want something that can be placed with Karyst... Maiming Strike can be an really costly option, since the dagger has 10% base chance, you can have 100% critical chance while dealing slide attacks (the mod give flat +90 critical chance), ensuring the critical and triggering the Naramon's effect

Edited June 4, 2017 by Zeyez
Doing the same actions, over and over again, expecting the results to change... damn RNG, i'm insane

[Valkyr-Umbra]

4 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

...

I had berserker in my build, but it didn't seem to help with finisher speed, and a google later, I found a post which said it doesn't speed up finishers other then ground, is this accurate?

I also read that smoke shadow doesn't scale with power range (covers 5 meters regardless) but does scale with duration. With than in mind do you think it would be beneficial, or would something like rising storm, constitution, or armored agility work better?

[Nazrethim]

Just now, Snowman486 said:

I had berserker in my build, but it didn't seem to help with finisher speed, and a google later, I found a post which said it doesn't speed up finishers other then ground, is this accurate?

Well, that's possible, I haven't used berserker in ages because I prefer passive benefits over timed buffs (same reason why I don't use Argon scope).

Just now, Snowman486 said:

I also read that smoke shadow doesn't scale with power range (covers 5 meters regardless) but does scale with duration. With than in mind do you think it would be beneficial, or would something like rising storm, constitution, or armored agility work better?

IIRC it was affected by range, but I haven't used +/- range mods in ages either, or at least not with Smoke Shadow. Rising Storm is affected by Duration, but unless you have 200% duration it's largely pointless in it's current state. Armored Agility is if you A) sprint a lot and B) want some extra armor. I do use Armored Agility, but of course my build uses all power stats at default 100% because I invest in boosting EHP and Utility rather than powers. I fare really well that way as long as I avoid at all costs using Blade Storm (just too freaking expensive at default cost, as if DE set the energy cost around maxed efficiency and said "ya, it's fine")

[(XBOX)BigQuadTodd]

I would use a any dark dagger instead of karyst because of the mod gleaming blight. Blight gives a viral proc all around you, and viral is very good with ash, so once blight activates, you can go all ham with your weapons, or maybe, activate bladestorm

[(PSN)Feox_PH]

9 hours ago, Zeyez said:

1° i prefer use Rakta Dark dagger, since this one has the faster finisher (tied with ceramic dagger), 

I thought only Melee Attack Speed mods affect finisher animation speed not the attack speed of the weapon.  Still, Rakta Dark Dagger (or Ceramic Dagger) is also my preferred dagger for Ash because quick melee helps sometimes.

For a Covert Lethality build, I focused on attack speed and damage mods than a critical or status build.  With the fast finisher animation, I usually find myself using Fatal Teleport more than Bladestorm.  I would usually use Fatal Teleport/Covert Lethality build for Sortie Rescue missions (insta-kill Wardens) or Rathuum (insta-kill Executioners).  I don't usually use Life Strike for such missions since Ash is very mobile already.

For long Survival/Defense missions, Life Strike is a great melee mod, but I wouldn't use daggers for such missions, though.  Ash's invisibility makes melee weapons deal 8x damage that would benefit fast melee weapons that can hit multiple targets at the same time.

Eventually, seeing that Ash can really stay invisible for the duration of the mission, you may want to skip your reliance on Life Strike and use another mod to increase your damage.

Here is my Ash build:

Fatal Teleport Ash Build

You can replace Constitution and Fatal Teleport with other Augments depending on missions (e.g. Smoke Shadow/Fatal Teleport for Rescue, Seeking Shuriken/Intensify for Sortie Assassination, etc.).

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by (PS4)Feox_PH

[uAir]

I wouldn't recommend it. I don't know what the heck is going on but I tried Covert Lethality on a dagger with Fatal Teleport. It's so buggy. Often I'll just teleport to the enemy and then flip off of the target with 0 damage done. You just spam this a few times on a target and 0 damage done. Should've just fired a Tigris Prime at it instead. The bugginess makes it really stupid and annoying to use. Not even worth it. I feel like I wasted the forma on Ash Prime. I was going to use more formas but once it hits 30 I'm just stashing it away forever again to let it rot. Stupid Ash. -_-