Mag Rework Feedback.

[Asdryu]

There are some issues with Mag, but those might just be related for how the game is right now (it's A BIT broken, let's be honest. Eximus' Bug turning allies invincible has made a come back for example and I see nothing addressing it. Either I'm missing something or enlighten me by putting back the description under enemies' names when you're pointing at them). Some of these are enemies sometimes not getting affected by the abilities' effect etc (while still getting the damage from x ability).

I got that this rework has been made when the obnoxious trend of making every frame the same but with some different visuals and making them suffer from line of sight (oh, I will mention line of sight soon...) was a thing, but I still think that some things are a tad too much.
So, how did I come to this conclusion? I'll explain it by starting from the bottom of the things I just find being chains to this awkwardly extremely attractive frame (no pun intended).

Magnetize - it's certainly the best ability in her arsenal, but the synergizes from it are focused only on damage wich will become useless because of scaling and also is one of the best abilities in the game to deal damage by itself. By the time you'll use other abilities, magnetized enemies will be already dead, also, it's not even about enemies being in the sphere, it's about the single one. In the same way that weapons benefits hitting enemies apart from the magnetized one, abilities should get a little in the side too (polarize does, yada yada. Let's just don't turn Mag into squishy but AoE Chroma).

Polarize - doesn't bother me that much, but the support part of this skill has totally been killed. Also, when enemies don't have both shields or armor to being with, this skill becomes completely useless. Since polarize has been changed to a frustranting slow sphere Molecular prime-like (but nothing as good) with a really low range, how about changing the replenishment of the shield into something continuous as long as you're inside the sphere itself until it's active? Much like Oberon's renewal, but without the channeling effect. This aspect of the ability is completely shadowed by Trinity and Volt (and maybe it will from Harrow too), wich I find weird since Mag should be the one playing with shields, energy and stuff (I didn't actually I had all of this in me).

Crush - not much to say for this, BUT, why is the effect on the enemies is affected by the casting speed? If I put natural talent it's because I want some aid and not a penalty. Turn this into some sort of a channeling ability then. I'm not talking Banshee's channeling, but holding the button, so that if you just want to execute the ability, you'll do it, but if you hold it you'll won't deliver the final blow and will keep the enemies in the air and block whoever comes in range. "Wouldn't this screw with Fracturing Crush?" Not if it will benefit from the changes by making it so that the more you're channeling, the more armor you will strip, like 5% per second affected by power strenght, followed then by the final explosion (the regular 50%). And since we're here, why not taking shields in the matter too? Either increasing the overshield cap by feeding from the enemy ones or simply replenishing yours. Replenishing shields while holding all enemies in the air doesn't sound like a problem, but when a nullifier walks in, you'll be in a lot of more troubles in an istant. If Mag isn't THE frame to play with shields, why should anyone else do it?

Pull - ooh, the problems I have with this... Why did this become a cone in front of her instead of a 360° skill (Mag doesn't seem to make a special animation for the front. She creates a little sphere on her arm and then pulls it back). Why is this affected by line of sight? It's a magnet strong enough to move and damage things! That amount of power won't care where you are at all! That said, this should be affected by power strenght at least. If enemies are behind repairs, this should at least stagger them, and if the strenght is enough, should smash them to the wall knocking them down. This also goes for Greedy Pull, I mean, I can pull items through walls thanks to the little passive on the bullet jump but I can't pull items thanks to an augment made exclusively for that? Come on... And the energy orb chance on kill... oh. Yeah, nice, I get the chance to win a candy because I did the fatality on a magnetized enemy... I sure spent more energy to kill anything with Magnetize + Pull to get that energy thing. How about there's a cost reduction on pull for how many enemies are getting hit by magnetize rather than giving a simple damage? Kinda like Bladestorm I guess.
 

 

You also killed her in the comics... You monsters

Edited June 8, 2017 by [DE]Aidan
Title edited for clarity

[Faulcun]

Well first of all, your title isnt going to get the attention you seek from DE.

Aside from that, I feel like Mag, as well as many other frames, are the way they are largely due to some form of massive abuse in one or all of their powers; Greedy pull being a perfect example.

Some people werent around when all that stuff went down. But in many regards, the few will suffer for the lack of self control of the many. Those who werent around back then might say "Oh come on. It couldnt have been that bad.."

It was.

Things havent changed much with the community either. If DE gives an inch, the community will take a mile. This community functions on the basis of instant gratification with no foresight on consequences of actions. Of course theres always room for improvement. But things like LOS on some abilities will probably never change now.

Take Banshee's sound quake as another example. Locking down the whole map might seem like a fun idea, but i fully expect to see that get nerfed right into the ground eventually. Mark my words on that.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Faulcun

[Asdryu]

4 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

Well first of all, your title isnt going to get the attention you seek from DE.

Aside from that, I feel like Mag, as well as many other frames, are the way they are largely due to some form of massive abuse in one or all of their powers; Greedy pull being a perfect example.

Some people werent around when all that stuff went down. But in many regards, the few will suffer for the lack of self control of the many. Those who werent around back then might say "Oh come on. It couldnt have been that bad.."

It was.

Things havent changed much with the community either. If DE gives an inch, the community will take a mile. This community functions on the basis of instant gratification with no foresight on consequences of actions. Of course theres always room for improvement. But things like LOS on some abilities will probably never change now.

But greedy pull has been nerfed to the point where it's almost useless, channeling abilities were what they were and so on. She is not the one that has to soak all those things up

[Stoner]

When DE actually nerfed frames and tried to include LoS... That was a long time ago and I feel Mag is just a proof of what they've done in the past and how they just gave up on it.

[Cyriann]

I'm all for LOS disappearing from pulls considerations BUT, then the Greedy pull tactic will resurface and as it was said above, that was a really bad period. 

Mag has been turned onto what she now is because people prefered to abuse of the game, camping instead of moving.

If you know of the old "Loot Cave" of Destiny (look a video of it if you don't) imagine that it was the same situation minimal effort for maximum profit over gameplay itself. Which of course is not what our dear Devs want anyone to do. 

In other words before Mag can find back her glory as a polar point, a solution must be found for that matter. 

 

As for the other changes you call for, I won't speak since I haven't played a lot of her myself. 

[Asdryu]

9 minutes ago, Cyriann said:

I'm all for LOS disappearing from pulls considerations BUT, then the Greedy pull tactic will resurface and as it was said above, that was a really bad period. 

Mag has been turned onto what she now is because people prefered to abuse of the game, camping instead of moving.

If you know of the old "Loot Cave" of Destiny (look a video of it if you don't) imagine that it was the same situation minimal effort for maximum profit over gameplay itself. Which of course is not what our dear Devs want anyone to do. 

In other words before Mag can find back her glory as a polar point, a solution must be found for that matter. 

 

As for the other changes you call for, I won't speak since I haven't played a lot of her myself. 

This... I don't think we have to fear camping because of Mag AGAIN, but because of Octavia maybe. Still, I'm not seeing many people doing this again, especially since the boring old void system is long gone. Greedy Pull has been toned down to effect only on the user and not allies. If people had a reason to do that again, they would definitely use Octavia since she doesn't have to fear anything aside getting shot while enemies are ramming the Mallet.

There are so many new items to get a way stronger potential. Removing LoS from Greedy Pull because of a couple energy orbs really won't change much now.

Edited June 5, 2017 by RyuGold

[Hypernaut1]

Mag is the most needlessly nerfed WF in this game

[Chipputer]

35 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

Those who werent around back then might say "Oh come on. It couldnt have been that bad.."

It was.

I remember trying to play a Mag in a public mission without having Greedy Pull equipped. That was the worst.

Then you had the fact that if someone took Mag to any Corpus mission (or even Corrupted) with you, you'd be barely able to participate as she raised her hand, made a fist, and everything immediately popped.

Good riddance to those days.

[Asdryu]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I remember trying to play a Mag in a public mission without having Greedy Pull equipped. That was the worst.

Then you had the fact that if someone took Mag to any Corpus mission (or even Corrupted) with you, you'd be barely able to participate as she raised her hand, made a fist, and everything immediately popped.

Good riddance to those days.

I sure don't miss these days either, but she still feels like a one trick pony because of her Magnetize

[Dreddeth]

More like "DE, why did you make it so that I have to press more than one button to play Mag?" amirite?

Edit: At the very least you should be weaving Crushes in between Polarizes, and Magnetize is so, so much more effective when you Pull your target and everything in their general vicinity into a neat little pile before you cast it. And of course Polarize leaves those shard things for Magnetize to pick up.

Giving Pull a 360 degree arc or making it not require LOS would be hugely unnecessary. It's already one of the most cost-efficient 1st abilities in the entire game, and being able to hard CC an entire freaking tile with one button is obviously not something DE wants you to do considering that Prism finally got its much needed nerf.

Crush is a bit of a letdown, I'll admit that, but your "fix" honestly sounds like it would go too far in the opposite direction.

I don't see the point of your changes to Polarize, and the support aspect actually isn't dead. Stick on Stretch, and/or Primed Continuity, and the wave will get to where it needs to go. It even instantly affects everything in the initial radius, so it's about as good defensively as it ever has been, especially in the context of Defense or Excavation missions. The only problem is when something's trying to run away from you, as opposed to charging in, but why would you use Mag in Capture missions?

Magnetize doesn't need any real utility when Mag is a strong contender for "best CC support in-game." It can already passively shield you from enemy fire anyway.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Dreddeth
clarification

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

Personally, I like Mag, but I really wish DE made the Magnetic proc better. I think that's probably the biggest reason she's considered a nerf abuse victim. The Greedy Pull situation can easily be resolved by making the player have LoS on said loot, while Pull remains a cone in front of her for which there is no LoS. There are very obvious non-OP solutions, DE just doesn't consider fixing what they can easily band-aid

[Asdryu]

9 minutes ago, Dreddeth said:

More like "DE, why did you make it so that I have to press more than one button to play Mag?" amirite?

Or you mean, "Why did you change the ability to play Mag?" Not sure what clever point are you trying to make here.

[Chipputer]

9 minutes ago, RyuGold said:

I sure don't miss these days either, but she still feels like a one trick pony because of her Magnetize

You use her other abilities to control and force enemies into her Magnetize zones. Your entire power set is centered around forcing enemies to be where you want them to be.

Magnetize is fine how it is. Pull is emergency CC and can yank an entire platoon off of their feet, giving you much needed breathing room, Polarize heals shields, rather than health, and will probably see a more useful application when Shield Gating is implemented, and Crush is a wide, AoE CC+damage ability with an amazing augment.

You call her a one trick pony and I see why you think that way, but that's not much different from most other frames. They all generally have a singular goal that they try to do well and they all have secondary things that they do less well. If you want a real one trick pony you'd be pointing at Nidus whose entire kit centers around building stacks so that his first ability does more damage.

[Dreddeth]

1 minute ago, RyuGold said:

Or you mean, "Why did you change the ability to play Mag?" Not sure what clever point are you trying to make here.

Read the edit. It's kinda my fault for not including it in the original post, but vapid doomsaying tends to bring out the smart-aleck in me.

[Hypernaut1]

I hope they take a look at SP when they release shield gating. 

But I won't be surprised if shield gating gets released, Mag becomes a power house because of SP.... Then DE decideds to nerf it. 

[Asdryu]

What about Trinity, sentinels arcanes and anything that gives shields then? Those are immediate

Edited June 6, 2017 by RyuGold

[AandOE]

The two things that I miss from Mag are her old non-line of sight Pull, and Polarize's ability to suddenly fill your shields back up. The first because it was way more fun, and the second because she has much less EHP if she can't heal the shield part. I mean, that's one of her shticks, right? The whole shield heal shenanigans? Yeah, I get that the flip side of Polarize's ability made the Corpus non-threatening in many manners (BOOM, pssshhhh, BOOM, pssshhhh, etc), but not being able to regularly fill one's shields anymore must've been a byproduct oversight. Trying to use Polarize in a group of Corpus felt like a death sentence the other day, and they're the ones whom the shields are supposed to be being stripped of. D:

During the mentioned death sentence, I had folks actually ask me why I even bother with Mag against the Corpus anymore, and it was saddening. Y_Y Here's to hoping that Shield Gating does something good for her. *Cheers*

[Asdryu]

Just tried right now to make a build for shield polarize using redirection instead of vitality... It's so worthless (ok, it was in JV, but still).

Don't throw me the word "change" though. I'm not asking for a change I'm asking for some added effects wich btw, turning most of Mag's abilities into a 1handed cast was actually good to me. I do love that

Yes, I know how she's built around Magnetize, but the support part just isn't there anymore imo.

[Tesseract7777]

17 minutes ago, RyuGold said:

Just tried right now to make a build for shield polarize using redirection instead of vitality... It's so worthless (ok, it was in JV, but still).

Don't throw me the word "change" though. I'm not asking for a change I'm asking for some added effects wich btw, turning most of Mag's abilities into a 1handed cast was actually good to me. I do love that

Yes, I know how she's built around Magnetize, but the support part just isn't there anymore imo.

Shield gating is coming, when that day comes, shields are going to be more useful. Right now it may not mean much, but it will. 

[Chipputer]

Unfortunately, shields suffer from not being able to protect from high level toxin and slash procs and, until shield gating comes, are simply not nearly as effective, health wise, on your frame.

Right now building for Shield Polarize hinges on being able to suck shields off of the enemies around you which, of course, only happens if they actually have shields in the first place. Using it in a place where it can't fully benefit you and then calling it worthless is kind of silly.

[Aimop95]

I just want Magnetize to have a 50% stronger pull on enemies and Pull to reliably pull enemies into Magnetize (not ragdoll them away from the bubble).

Polarize and Crush are fine, could use damage and CC changes but as they are now, they'll do.

[P0Pz]

11 hours ago, RyuGold said:

There are some issues with Mag,

✔

- To low max energy

- Magnetize "SuckIn 2 Mid" should be a bit Stronger

- Minus 15% Armor/Shield Debuffing

- Crush; needs tweaks and faster animation. 

- Mag's Passive; useless - make anotherone. Thats it.

Quote

Magnetize - it's certainly the best ability in her arsenal, ✔ but the synergizes from it are focused only on damage ( 😲 ) wich will become useless because of scaling ( ⁉ ) and also is one of the best abilities in the game to deal damage by itself.✔ By the time you'll use other abilities, magnetized enemies will be already dead, also, it's not even about enemies being in the sphere, it's about the single one. In the same way that weapons benefits hitting enemies apart from the magnetized one, abilities should get a little in the side too (polarize does, yada yada. Let's just don't turn Mag into squishy but AoE Chroma).

Magnetize is not ONLY damage dealing (DD), while it scales UNLIMITED up with enemies. "The more bulldoh dmg they do, the more Damge it does".

Its also her SURVIVAL-TOOL. 1 and only skill that got a 💯% punch-through secure/deff from inside AND outside incoming dmg. NO range atacks shots/bullets can hit ya. ONLY melee but wait...100% status Corrosive + Blast ~ POX? Talking about pox and procs... nr1 proc scaling skill. 2 POX shots to INSTA INSTA remove Armor of any target moving in or standing inside the "Bubble" !!

1 bullet with Poisen/Gas/slash/corrosive/Blast.... keep on to hit several targets (esp gas or cloud creating weapons) or several targets each time it hits 1. And applys a proc or more everytime it hits a target while circling nonstop for the duration of 2. Target bullets, your bullets and team bullets. Criting bullets? Keep on to crit! Esp red crits or proc red crits! 

Magnetize is: Debuffing Tool/ CC Tool/ DD Tool/ Proc'ing Tool/ Deff Tool.

 

- Pull plus Magnetize ?

Positioning ! Go somewhere up (rock/object) or Bjump high. Pull ONCE AND AIM the first incoming flying target. Press 2 while target is still in air. Bubble wrapps in air arround targets or at first ground contact, but BEFORE that happens, throw in fast 3/4 POX shots. Now Target fast left and right, from the 1st bubble 2 more targetsto create a linie of bubbles and after duration ends a linie of explostion. Now u have created a linie of death  noone can hit you and you can run/fly save within from beeing hit by targets.

Want to camp? Search for a room with 1 door. Long path to it or a corner. Pull to get target to you. Aim for the first incoming foe. Keep the bubble up by puling more and direct cast 2 on "Hard Targets" that will not insta die, to make sure next bubble gets build up...repeat unlimited. Move to extraction by pull spam or like above step by step creating bubbles. Magnetize is sooo much in one skill. Please do not downgrade it just to DD 🤗.

Quote

Polarize - doesn't bother me that much, but the support part of this skill has totally been killed. Also, when enemies don't have both shields or armor to being with, this skill becomes completely useless. Since polarize has been changed to a frustranting slow sphere Molecular prime-like (but nothing as good) with a really low range, how about changing the replenishment of the shield into something continuous as long as you're inside the sphere itself until it's active? Much like Oberon's renewal, but without the channeling effect. This aspect of the ability is completely shadowed by Trinity and Volt (and maybe it will from Harrow too), wich I find weird since Mag should be the one playing with shields, energy and stuff (I didn't actually I had all of this in me).

- Insta Shield refreshing from You & Team-mates AND Cryopods touched by the puls? Incoming Shield-Gating? Mag is going to be THE shield healer and adds more survivalbility to her kit and squad in a 80m radius 😰

- it adds DD to her 2 as well...

- its debuff -shield/armor in flat numbers should be %, but not over -15% Armor/Shield - this would be already -30% Target deff-stats Debuffing in 1 go. No other frame got it. Flexible vs any target.

But as it is now..i do NOT CARE. Her 2 strips INSTA Armor with pox or high status weapons already. 

Thats why Mag+Saryn is a overkill combo. Adding a Banshee Sonar is over overkill. Add a Nynx with Terminator build in or Slova... (slowing down targets increases the procing ticks!) Is a total Over-Over kill. While Mag offers all deff with her 2, 3 to keep health untouched, 1 to bring targets in bubble range & cc.

Quote

Crush - needs absolut tweaking.

 

Quote

Pull - ooh, the problems I have with this... Why did this become a cone in front of her instead of a 360° skill (Mag doesn't seem to make a special animation for the front. She creates a little sphere on her arm and then pulls it back). Why is this affected by line of sight? It's a magnet strong enough to move and damage things! That amount of power won't care where you are at all! That said, this should be affected by power strenght at least. If enemies are behind repairs, this should at least stagger them, and if the strenght is enough, should smash them to the wall knocking them down. This also goes for Greedy Pull, I mean, I can pull items through walls thanks to the little passive on the bullet jump but I can't pull items thanks to an augment made exclusively for that? Come on... And the energy orb chance on kill... oh. Yeah, nice, I get the chance to win a candy because I did the fatality on a magnetized enemy... I sure spent more energy to kill anything with Magnetize + Pull to get that energy thing. How about there's a cost reduction on pull for how many enemies are getting hit by magnetize rather than giving a simple damage? Kinda like Bladestorm I guess.
 

Pull is great! Its a tool for all her other tools.

Agree to the "on kill" energy-orb drop-chance. It should be a general "if cast atk hits a target" it got a chance to drop engy orbs when it dies. Not when killed by the skill. 

Greedypull is awesome and in 2/3 of my builds within. Love it.

Her passive is "Useless". Greedypull is so much stronger. Mag needs another passive.

As a Mag main...i just love Mag, The CC & Isolator Queen 😊.

She is very well done besides her 4 and those points i mentioned above. Works fantastic with any frame but the best working with Mag are other DD caster frames.

(As always 'imo' no personal atk ♡)

Edit: My Mag Layout: Pox; Torid; Lesion or Mios; Shade or Kavat Adarza

Edited June 6, 2017 by P0Pz

[mplokijuhygtfrdeszqa]

11 hours ago, Faulcun said:

Well first of all, your title isnt going to get the attention you seek from DE.

Aside from that, I feel like Mag, as well as many other frames, are the way they are largely due to some form of massive abuse in one or all of their powers; Greedy pull being a perfect example.

Some people werent around when all that stuff went down. But in many regards, the few will suffer for the lack of self control of the many. Those who werent around back then might say "Oh come on. It couldnt have been that bad.."

It was.

Things havent changed much with the community either. If DE gives an inch, the community will take a mile. This community functions on the basis of instant gratification with no foresight on consequences of actions. Of course theres always room for improvement. But things like LOS on some abilities will probably never change now.

Take Banshee's sound quake as another example. Locking down the whole map might seem like a fun idea, but i fully expect to see that get nerfed right into the ground eventually. Mark my words on that.

Wait; what?

The community is abusing because it use the abilities handed out by the devs? Is there an exploit I don't know about sound quake, or are you calling abuse "buy a mod and use a power as intended" ?

 

[Vafthrudnir]

Mag just needs to be able to carry the shards around with her passive, with pull and crush needs to do something else.

Crush should work something like Volt's ult that does damage to enemies that are close to each other BUT it sticks them together and crush those who are close to each other making groups of crushed enemies.

Oh and Mag needs to proc magnetic with shield polarize so she scales again with enemies' level.

Edited June 6, 2017 by giovanniluca

[P0Pz]

43 minutes ago, giovanniluca said:

Mag just needs to be able to carry the shards around with her passive, with pull and crush needs to do something else.

Crush should work something like Volt's ult that does damage to enemies that are close to each other BUT it sticks them together and crush those who are close to each other making groups of crushed enemies.

Oh and Mag needs to proc magnetic with shield polarize so she scales again with enemies' level.

+1

Hmm...

Why not change Crush into "Field attraction",...

Mag,  releases a field 1,5sec cast time, working like her 3 as a puls, in witch every target standing or moving into it, get magnetized and therefore a Field attraction applyed.

What happends if you Magnetize "objects" ? Objects that get polarization, get atracted to each others. Bulking groups. 

Now using pull, would pull instead every single target with each own physic, pull the "groups" as they are, to Mag.

- Polarization; if a target does not have armor or shields, the one missing is switched into 8% targets max armor or max shield (the one which target got) in a Burst dmg. Which can cause a magnetize chain-reaction. Which increases "Field attraction's" potential somehow...

Edited June 6, 2017 by P0Pz