This Game is Boring

[artemisfortune]

Subjective title aside, it's time I finally faced the facts. This game, from the start to the end, is the same thing. Shoot, run to extract, shoot, run to extract. There is little variation on anything. Even playing different frames feels the same. Whenever a new or interesting mechanic comes out, it's either a gimmick (Operators), worthless (2/5 focus schools), or non-functional/troll heavy (Limbo, and I really like Limbo). This isn't a slight at the devs, I couldn't have done better and I think they're doing their best. Lets face it though, even attempts at reworks just end up being more of the same. Archwing was the last totally new thing we got and it was awesome, the possibilities were awesome! Supposedly they're working on it, but it flopped. Majorly.

So there lies the crux of the problem. This game is boring. At least for me. I don't think I'm the only one, but if I am, woops. I mean where is the variation in gameplay? Even new powers are functionally the same. Generally there are 5 categories. CC, Buffs, Damage, Utility, and Mobility. That's what our powers generally do. And they're effective, sure, but are they fun? Maybe for the first couple of months of gameplay, but after that? I mean a lot of us have been at this for 2, 3, 4 years! All we do is shoot, or spam E to melee. I mean a lot could be accomplished if just the Melee system was fleshed out, or if the FoV was able to be altered just a bit more! But instead we have grossly powerful weapons where we hit one button and everything dies until the level gets so high we just can't possibly do it anymore. That's not good game design, at least not in my opinion. We need fixed level design. Let me play on beautiful earth with level 100 enemies. Balance our mods and weapons around that. Set a level cap, and balance around it. It'll be hard work, but it'll pay off. Vary  you're enemies. Make parrying do something. Let me open up a melee only enemy for finishers by parrying at the right time. Oh wait, did you guys know we can already do that? It's never apparent, and there is almost no purpose to it. So give us purpose to our mechanics. Make charge attacks work, make channeling worthwhile, make deflection viable, allow varied gameplay instead of this tired meta.

DE, I know you're trying hard, but as a long time fan of the game there are some glaring problems that need to be fixed. I've been ignoring them for awhile assuming better things were on the horizon, but it's important to point this out now. The direction the game is, the direction I think it's going, it isn't fun. Not for me, and I'm willing to bet not for others. 

Take Black Desert Online. I've been playing that game for awhile. That game is more of a grind than this is. It's awful, yet I love that game to bits. The gameplay is fun. Combos are flashy, taming horses is fun, farming, fishing, crafting, it's all there and all interesting. What's stopping Warframe from adding something new? Something varied? Something to do that isn't just a new tool to do the same thing?

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and it works out. I hope it's just me that has found this game to be boring. 

Edit: If you've made a post or point you want in the OP, please PM me and I'll see about putting it in the OP to make it easier to digest this thread. Credit will of course be given.

@A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

 

Warframe's problem, imo, is that its core gameplay is very basic. The gameplay experience (what we actually do in tilesets and on missions) is very limited. Look at something like Battlefield, Battlefront, or Ghost Recon Wildlands, for an example. They've got ground vehicles, and aircraft, and immersive environments, and NPCs you can interact with. Even though two of those are multiplayer shooters, they have more things for you to do in matches that makes for exciting gameplay. Their missions (for single player or multiplayer matches) are usually multi-objective, and none of them are geared towards quick in-and-out gameplay because they aren't just focused on reward items.

Warframe offers none of that. The game is boring, said to die quickly (as you quoted), not because of new content, but because the gameplay itself is so limited, so shallow, to the point where the only thing players can really look forward to is new content, because that's the only thing that's satisfying in the game. The core gameplay just isn't. Reworking stats is not going to make the game more fun. Fixes are needed; please don't get me wrong there. But fixes will just make Warframe a more polished game. They won't make it a more complete game.

To do that, I think DE needs to 1) rework their basic movement animations (running and sprinting), 2) rework gun handling and how the character moves when holding guns, 3) rework their core mission types (the core player experience), fleshing them out, making them multi-objective, and adding things like vehicles and NPCs, 4) add new features and mission types that actually expand upon the revamped core player experience, and remove features that don't, 5) revamp the mastery system so that every normal kill, special kill (i.e. slide kills, ability kills, wall kills, etc), and special action (i.e. scans, console hacks, wall runs, etc) gains you mastery points, and 6) create a narrative story (a start-to-finish story, like a traditional campaign, even if told through the quest system) that progresses you through the main core progression of the game.

When it comes to "content", that's the kind of content that Warframe needs, imo.

@ganjou234

 

Anyway. I have a hunch that working on mastery, mission parameters, eximus enemies, stealth, A.I. would solve most of the glaring issues that Warframe faces.

1. Rework mastery, give more mastery to players and teams that perform the most (ie meeting mission parameters). And then missions can be based on mastery and not level.
2. Give missions some parameters that should be met outside of the main objective (eg. stealth), and give better rewards from meeting these parameters. That would provide a different pace to the missions, a sense of danger. (When was the last time you went, "Nope, nope, nope!", hmm?)
3. Make eximus enemies into real mini-bosses, nerf the durability and damage of everything else. This would make meeting an eximus in the field a true test of prowess.
4. Give stealth a small rework. (eg Introduce concealment wherein revealing one squad member does not reveal the rest.)
5. Make lesser units have.....fear.......small dialogue is always appreciated. (Remember when playing HALO and the Covenant unggoy go, "He's gonna kill us all!" , or “WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!”). Seriously.......TENNO SKOOM gets annoying sometimes....

With all that done, balance would revolve around not breaking immersion, rather than a numerical value (ie levels).

@Iccotak

The Developers and the Community need to reorient the way they think about this game. Stop getting comfortable, it is slowing development down.
Warframe is not a complete game, It is essentially in alpha. And people need to start looking at it more that way so then they can prioritize what is actually important. 
If I am going to give money to DE I want my money going towards development of a Finished Product, not so then they can endlessly experiment.
DE needs a coherent vision for the game and make that their goal. Make a Complete Game
Stop implementing partially made features and adding new toys.
We have plenty of Warframes and Weapons.

For a game of this scope:
-What are the basic and key features Warframe should have to be a complete game?

-What features can this game have that are unique to itself and have not been done in other games?

Edited June 30, 2017 by JSharpie
adding things.

[ashrah]

i faced some problem..u log in and u dont know what to do  

[Elvangreen]

The thing is, whenever they add something new, people complain, and then they get worried about putting more effort into it, and it gets left behind.

E.g. Focus, Channeling, Lunaro, Operator, Archwing.

 

And if they stop producing new content to take time to overhaul old systems like damage and scaling, they would lose players who just want a constant flow of new weapons, missions, and quests.

 

Also, DE are a lot smaller then many other game companies, so it will take a while for them to make the game into what they want it to be. There is a reason its still in beta.

 

If your bored, then feel free to go off and play another game, come back in a year or two, then have fun exploring the way the game has evolved in your absence.

 

Personally, i have a variety of things i do to keep myself interested:

- I might help and guide new players.

- i might pick up a rarely used gun and try to max out its potential.

- i might go and try to fight sentients on lua using only weapons like daggers, or explosives.

- i might hit the randomize button then try to complete a sortie solo, using that random gear.

- i might farm a bit of kuva and roll a riven a few times, but in a fleeting fun way, not a hard grind.

- i might try to fill my codex entries.

- i might try to do long defence/survival missions

etc.

 

Overall, they have a choice, Keep making more content and money, and drag the game out a good few years until it dies, or take the plunge and rework damage, scaling, mods, focus, operators, and archwing, and hope that enough people recognize the necessity and support them in this.

There are good signs, with a melee 2.5 and focus 2.0 at tennocon, but only time will tell if they are going to take the plunge and work toward the games true potential, rather than keeping it as-is, and just releasing a stream of guns and frames.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Elvangreen

[AlendasNaro]

So you are one of those people who always need direction to go?

[artemisfortune]

Just now, Elvangreen said:

The thing is, whenever they add something new, people complain, and then they get worried about putting more effort into it, and it gets left behind.

E.g. Focus, Channeling, Lunaro, Operator, Archwing.

So the devs need to make a choice. Keep the community comfortable but largely bored, or take a risk, reinvigorate their game.

[DrBorris]

So... Archwing, you literally just asked for Archwing. 

 

This is just one of many reasons why Archwing should be high on DE's to-do list, it COULD be the standout feature of the game, something that breaks up the general combat. But nooo, the community has to stomp their feet and say "Archwing sucks, give up on it", ignoring any possibilities for the game mode if DE actually fully invested in it. 

 

I personally still, after too many hours, have a lot of fun with the game. For me the combat experience is amazing with plenty of diversity, but to that point I generally play Warframes that have funky kits. Something about gliding through the air and getting three enemies skewered on an arrow never gets old for me. 

[artemisfortune]

Just now, AlendasNaro said:

So you are one of those people who always need direction to go?

Who doesn't? What is the point of playing if there is no where to go?

I'm using BDO as an example again, but it's a good example. That game just throws you in with no direction. It has a very basic tutorial on movement and combos and then it throws you to the wind and it works. And it works good.;

[AlendasNaro]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Who doesn't? What is the point of playing if there is no where to go?

I'm using BDO as an example again, but it's a good example. That game just throws you in with no direction. It has a very basic tutorial on movement and combos and then it throws you to the wind and it works. And it works good.;

So tell me. Have you played Open world games then and how far you have gotten in those?

[Skaleek]

I honestly found the game a lot more fun back when i would struggle with rooms of 5-10 enemies and ammo consumption was a legitimate concern. Now even if i go back and strip myself of gear and increase challenge the game is still a horde shooter. The tactical shooter i played 4 years ago is dead and gone.

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, AlendasNaro said:

So tell me. Have you played Open world games then and how far you have gotten in those?

Yes, and far, I generally do full completions of most of my games. I'm going to politely ask you to get to the point though.

[BLI7Z]

Life is boring and repetitive. It depends on yourself what to do with what you've got available. Having fun is something very subjective that doesn't totally depend on what someone can give you, but in the way you look at it and do it. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by BLI7Z

[ShadowStalker]

We need long quests like not the way we have them now where we do a mission and comeback and repeat  but like continues 2-3 hour longs custom  quests that are completely different 

idk just a idea

[AlendasNaro]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Yes, and far, I generally do full completions of most of my games. I'm going to politely ask you to get to the point though.

Thing is. Curiosity is sometimes the thing that can drive you forward and does curiosity need direction? Not set by the game at least. Curiosity is what drives players to explore things.

[DrBorris]

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

So the devs need to make a choice. Keep the community comfortable but largely bored, or take a risk, reinvigorate their game.

I should just edit this into my post above but I'm lazy so...

 

Rant incoming: The community doesn't know best, and the community really needs to learn that. Damage 3.0 died because people are afraid of change, Archwing is stuck where it is because most players will never accept it, and in general most reworks are made with the "must add content" criteria because that is all the community ever begs for. This game has a Beta tag for a reason, it is supposed to mean that DE is able to go back and change stuff, but the community doesn't like that. The community mostly begs for new toys, and responds the best to new toys. Just look at the lead up to TWW. Specters of the Rail was a massive, well-needed rework to the star chart and Prime farming, but the update was poorly received because there was little content. 

The community has put DE in an awkward place, we beg for reworks but only respond to content. No wonder DE is so hesitant with things. 

/rant

Edited June 9, 2017 by DrBorris

[Elvangreen]

1 minute ago, ShadowStalker said:

We need long quests like not the way we have them now where we do a mission and comeback and repeat  but like continues 2-3 hour longs custom  quests that are completely different 

idk just a idea

The problem here is that a single quest like that might take 1-2 years for DE to make, and people would not wait that long.

[Rundas342]

The game just need more story and lore. It's slowly adding them but still, more would be nice. A story mode about the prime warframes would be cool.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, DrBorris said:

I should just edit this into my post above but I'm lazy so...

 

Rant incoming: The community doesn't know best, and the community really needs to learn that. Damage 3.0 died because people are afraid of change, Archwing is stuck where it is because most players will never accept it, and in general most reworks are made with the "must add content" criteria because that is all the community ever begs for. This game has a Beta tag for a reason, it is supposed to mean that DE is able to go back and change stuff, but the community doesn't like that. The community mostly begs for new toys, and responds the best to new toys. Just look at the lead up to TWW. Specters of the Rail was a massive, well-needed rework to the star chart and Prime farming, but the update was poorly received because there was little content. 

The community has put DE in an awkward place, they beg for reworks but only respond to content. No wonder DE is so hesitant with things. 

/rant

I wholeheartedly agree. We are not game designers. We don't have the original vision in mind. Only they know what they want, but they should just do that. Do what they want. Not constantly appease us. Take a risk. Do something.

[PrVonTuckIII]

I'll agree that a lot of the stagnation is the community's fault. We complain so much that they're no longer sure, and we keep hounding them for more that they never feel like going back to fix the old systems. Archwing, Melee, and others have all been left in the dust, and they all have the potential to bring some more life into the game, but because we have this constant 'more content' mentality, we aren't going to see them fixed, because then we won't get our content, and we all fall apart. 

In the mean time, @JSharpie, I would recommend taking a break, and playing something with a different playstyle. My go-to is Planetside 2, which features significantly different gameplay, and it offers me something different. Try to find something that gives you a different experience.

 

[Rundas342]

6 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

I should just edit this into my post above but I'm lazy so...

 

Rant incoming: The community doesn't know best, and the community really needs to learn that. Damage 3.0 died because people are afraid of change, Archwing is stuck where it is because most players will never accept it, and in general most reworks are made with the "must add content" criteria because that is all the community ever begs for. This game has a Beta tag for a reason, it is supposed to mean that DE is able to go back and change stuff, but the community doesn't like that. The community mostly begs for new toys, and responds the best to new toys. Just look at the lead up to TWW. Specters of the Rail was a massive, well-needed rework to the star chart and Prime farming, but the update was poorly received because there was little content. 

The community has put DE in an awkward place, we beg for reworks but only respond to content. No wonder DE is so hesitant with things. 

/rant

I agree, they will have to make a gamble, but are they willing to do it?

[artemisfortune]

Just now, PrVonTuckIII said:

I'll agree that a lot of the stagnation is the community's fault. We complain so much that they're no longer sure, and we keep hounding them for more that they never feel like going back to fix the old systems. Archwing, Melee, and others have all been left in the dust, and they all have the potential to bring some more life into the game, but because we have this constant 'more content' mentality, we aren't going to see them fixed, because then we won't get our content, and we all fall apart. 

In the mean time, @JSharpie, I would recommend taking a break, and playing something with a different playstyle. My go-to is Planetside 2, which features significantly different gameplay, and it offers me something different. Try to find something that gives you a different experience.

 

As implied, I've been playing Black Desert. I'm a sucker for grinds, and BDO is unadultered, painful grind. I love it.

I've been holding in these feelings for awhile, defending DE's decisions. And it's not like DE is doing anything wrong. I don't think I've had the guts to make drastic changes in their shoes. This is their livelihood. But if we stay silent, we can be damn sure nothing will change. So I, like a lot of people, had to try too.

[ShadowStalker]

4 minutes ago, Elvangreen said:

The problem here is that a single quest like that might take 1-2 years for DE to make, and people would not wait that long.

yeah i mean it took them like 6 months for TWW? something like this will be fun but yeah i agree will take them ages to do

[trunks013]

Yeah i agree that warframe need a little something to change the fact that we are currently just shooting/melee enemy to farm stuff not mater how its presented it always come down to this.

Personaly when i'm annoyed and helping new tenno and stuff is not working i just do my daily login and try a look at my "Bucket list" of game i need to absolutly play and just go play them for a little while.

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by trunks013

[AlendasNaro]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

As implied, I've been playing Black Desert. I'm a sucker for grinds, and BDO is unadultered, painful grind. I love it.

I've been holding in these feelings for awhile, defending DE's decisions. And it's not like DE is doing anything wrong. I don't think I've had the guts to make drastic changes in their shoes. This is their livelihood. But if we stay silent, we can be damn sure nothing will change. So I, like a lot of people, had to try too.

I have been considering to play SWTOR for a while... I guess I should pick that game up.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

It happens to everybody who is here for a long time. You have a drive to get everything when you are still getting new things and putting forma. But after you did all these things, it will depend a lot on your own self motivation and interest to keep going.

[motorfirebox]

Yeah, I've mostly settled into the routine of only showing up when new major updates drop, and then getting quitting for a while. The gameplay is not as imaginative as the world/art style.